LYK challenged Singaporeans that we can't live without them?
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What a joke! So you consider ministers' pay as 'bleeding the nation'. You expect them to work for nothing?Originally posted by soul_rage:Take for eg, we have approx 20 ministers and on avg, they each earn 100k, our nation's bleeding an average of $2,000,000.00 a mth. And that's not counting the ministers of state and the MPs. Such a small
"There is a global competition for talent. A fresh graduate can command 150k a year. If you do not pay competitive wages, you lose them to the private sector. Ms Yu has returned to Singapore for personal reasons despite the lower pay but if her pay in Singapore as a returned scholar is far too little, you wouldn't expect her to return. Why would Ng Eng Hen work as a Minister with its greater stress for far less salary when he was already earning more than a million a year as a surgeon?
"BRITISH investment firm Barclays Capital wanted Ms Yu Yingxi so much that it was willing to fork out a six-figure sum to buy her out of her six-year bond with the Public Service Commission (PSC).
She had spent a year from June 2005 working with it in London after completing her studies in economics at the London School of Economics on a PSC scholarship.
But Ms Yu, now 25, turned down the offer from the firm - which had been paying her some £50,000 (about S$150,000) a year - to return to Singapore to serve out her bond.
While she declined to reveal how much she is getting now, she said it is considerably lower than what she would have got with Barclays.
Some of the attractions back home: her family and her wanting to make more of an impact in her job.
'While there was satisfaction in building up my clients' investment portfolio at Barclays, I derive greater satisfaction knowing that the research I do now with the Ministry of Trade and Industry contributes to economic policies which affect a wide strata of society, from the businessman to the man in the street,' said the second of three girls of a retired banker and teacher.
Her story is yet another example of the keen tussle for top talent, which is getting more intense globally.
The reason is that companies around the world are getting more aggressive and making no apologies about growing their businesses, said president and chief executive of home-grown real estate giant CapitaLand, Mr Liew Mun Leong, who is himself a former senior civil servant.
The global nature of this fight for talent means that while Singapore wants to attract more foreigners to Singapore, it would also have to be prepared to lose some Singaporeans to other countries, he said.
And there is nothing wrong with this, as it does not mean they are not contributing to Singapore, said Mr Liew.
'By working overseas, they would still be contributing to the gross national product (GNP).
'They don't have to just contribute to the gross domestic product (GDP),' said Mr Liew, 60, whose three children work in Shanghai and New York.
The GDP measures what is produced in the country and can include contributions made by foreigners.
The GNP, however, measures citizens' contributions, even if they are overseas, for example, through foreign businesses or properties they own.
The competition for talent starts when students are barely out of their teens.
Mr Tan Yong Liang, 19, currently doing national service, has friends with multiple offers of scholarships, from fields as varied as the uniformed services and finance.
The youngest of three sons of a secretary mother and a retiree, Mr Tan is a recipient of an undergraduate scholarship from the police force.
He said: 'Some of my friends have really been able to pick and choose from among the offers.'" -
Police should be deployed to solve crimes. I do not want my tax money to be used to police demonstrators. Let them pay to hold their protests and demonstrations. Put your money where your mouth is: if you feel strongly about it, pay...Originally posted by soul_rage:For eg. since we are going to allow demonstrations, then its nice to first set the few rules (no violence, no arson, no vandalism, etc). Police need only blacklist those demonstration organizers that can't control the crowd so that next time, they won't be able to demonstrate.
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You mean you haven't caught onto the fact that people are ignoring you now?
Your next reply will not be answered.
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Are you sure, if we can get all the security forces you need, the demonstration will be allowed to go through for all kinds of causes?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I have no objection to public demonstrations provided that they do not disrupt business or traffic. If you want to book the indoor stadium and hold a demonstration inside, I have no objection. But if you want to hold a demonstration in the streets, why should I suffer from traffic jams and disruptions to businesses?
The law can be changed to allow indoor demonstrations. If you want to allow outdoor demonstrations, we must have security forces in place to ensure things do not get out of hand and traffic has to be regulated. The organizers of outdoor demonstrations must pay the cost of maintaining order and security. I will support outdoor demonstrations only if the organizers pay CISCO or some private security firms to maintain order. If the police has to be involved, the organizers must be made to pay for their time. It is not right that the costs of holding such events be passed on to the taxpayer. -
This message is hidden because oxford mushroom is on your ignore list.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:You mean you haven't caught onto the fact that people are ignoring you now?
Your next reply will not be answered. -
here we go again. Since when did I ask them to work for nothing? Your mentality is so- PAP. Take things to the extreme, and then say NO.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:What a joke! So you consider ministers' pay as 'bleeding the nation'. You expect them to work for nothing?
"There is a global competition for talent. A fresh graduate can command 150k a year. If you do not pay competitive wages, you lose them to the private sector. Ms Yu has returned to Singapore for personal reasons despite the lower pay but if her pay in Singapore as a returned scholar is far too little, you wouldn't expect her to return. Why would Ng Eng Hen work as a Minister with its greater stress for far less salary when he was already earning more than a million a year as a surgeon?
"BRITISH investment firm Barclays Capital wanted Ms Yu Yingxi so much that it was willing to fork out a six-figure sum to buy her out of her six-year bond with the Public Service Commission (PSC).
She had spent a year from June 2005 working with it in London after completing her studies in economics at the London School of Economics on a PSC scholarship.
But Ms Yu, now 25, turned down the offer from the firm - which had been paying her some £50,000 (about S$150,000) a year - to return to Singapore to serve out her bond.
While she declined to reveal how much she is getting now, she said it is considerably lower than what she would have got with Barclays.
Some of the attractions back home: her family and her wanting to make more of an impact in her job.
'While there was satisfaction in building up my clients' investment portfolio at Barclays, I derive greater satisfaction knowing that the research I do now with the Ministry of Trade and Industry contributes to economic policies which affect a wide strata of society, from the businessman to the man in the street,' said the second of three girls of a retired banker and teacher.
Her story is yet another example of the keen tussle for top talent, which is getting more intense globally.
The reason is that companies around the world are getting more aggressive and making no apologies about growing their businesses, said president and chief executive of home-grown real estate giant CapitaLand, Mr Liew Mun Leong, who is himself a former senior civil servant.
The global nature of this fight for talent means that while Singapore wants to attract more foreigners to Singapore, it would also have to be prepared to lose some Singaporeans to other countries, he said.
And there is nothing wrong with this, as it does not mean they are not contributing to Singapore, said Mr Liew.
'By working overseas, they would still be contributing to the gross national product (GNP).
'They don't have to just contribute to the gross domestic product (GDP),' said Mr Liew, 60, whose three children work in Shanghai and New York.
The GDP measures what is produced in the country and can include contributions made by foreigners.
The GNP, however, measures citizens' contributions, even if they are overseas, for example, through foreign businesses or properties they own.
The competition for talent starts when students are barely out of their teens.
Mr Tan Yong Liang, 19, currently doing national service, has friends with multiple offers of scholarships, from fields as varied as the uniformed services and finance.
The youngest of three sons of a secretary mother and a retiree, Mr Tan is a recipient of an undergraduate scholarship from the police force.
He said: 'Some of my friends have really been able to pick and choose from among the offers.'"
In the 1st place, is leading a nation something that is commercial and corporate? Why are we discussing serving the people or helping the people as a commercial or corporate perspective? I find this extremely degrading, and promotes all the wrong values for Singapore
Even our govt is promoting the paper chase, that only top notch 'talent' (I hesitate to use this, coz this is for god's sake, a government, NOT a corporation) can serve the nation. Whatever happen to those people who can relate better to the people, and thus able to bring the people forward collectively?
Again I state, that the term bleeding is used, because they are not worth that price. Name me achievements that are worthy of them. Go ahead. I am waiting for you to do that. Coz I am asking achievements for this bunch of people, NOT LKY's cabinet of the past.
Even in a corporation, is it necessary to have so many head of depts (20 ministers), 2 deputy CEOs (deputy PM), 1 CEO (1 PM), not to mention 1 MM, and 1 SM? If you want to run this nation as a corporation, then run it CORRECTLY. In every organisation, costs is an issue. If you want to hire more people, justify the costs first. Have they ever do this? Justifying why we need so many ministers (for a little dot of a country)
and as for your example above, about Ms Yu Yingxi, here are my thoughts (and listen well). She MUST come back. Coz of her bond, she MUST honour it. Never mind whoever offered to break her bond, becoz as a person of integrity, she MUST honour it.
Again, I don't see anything to be proud of about her rejecting the buy-out, coz I think she should have that responsibility.
And you know why I said that? Coz I too was bonded, and I rejected an attempt to buy me out, coz the organization that gave me a scholarship had given me the opportunity for a university degree, and I SHOULD repay that debt.
You made the above sound SO honourable, when in fact, she SHOULD behave like that.
And please, Ng Eng Hen. I remembered he said "I work 10 times harder than a surgeon and paid 10 times less". Do you know what that means? If you use your head, (assuming work hours) it means that in a 24 hour day, divide by 10, a surgeon only works 2.4 hours a day. And that's assuming he is working 24 hours. Do you honestly believe that? Just coz he said it?
Either you or someone else in this forum called us Singaporeans who question the govt as a bunch of idiots. I find this statement more relevant to those who accept whatever the govt says, without even questioning it. -
so u are saying our police should sit ard and suck their thumbs and collect their pay for doing nothing? Or you are saying that we should cut their pay if there are less crimes?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Police should be deployed to solve crimes. I do not want my tax money to be used to police demonstrators. Let them pay to hold their protests and demonstrations. Put your money where your mouth is: if you feel strongly about it, pay...
Even if there are no demonstrations, will there be less crimes? And even if there are demonstrations, will there be more crimes?
you don't even try, you just reject the notion completely. -
Guys, when the defending state ideology is inclusionary corporatism, it's impossible to throw them the argument that politics should be communitarian in nature, and not corporate.
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The police should be deployed to do proper police work, not distracted from their real jobs by protests and demonstrations. As I said, I have no objections to demonstrations if the organisers pay a security firm to maintain order.Originally posted by soul_rage:so u are saying our police should sit ard and suck their thumbs and collect their pay for doing nothing? Or you are saying that we should cut their pay if there are less crimes?
Even if there are no demonstrations, will there be less crimes? And even if there are demonstrations, will there be more crimes?
you don't even try, you just reject the notion completely.
I did not say the crime rate will rise with demonstrations. I am saying that we will need to deploy security forces to maintain order and that comes at a cost. As a taxpayer, I do not want my tax money to used in this manner.
Are ministers worth their pay? The population has a chance to vote on it every 4 years. This is a democracy. If Singaporeans think that they are not worth their salaries, let them join the Opposition party and let them compaign on this issue. Take a GRC away from the government if they can find (1) candidates who share their views and are willing to stand for election and (2) if they can persuade Singaporeans that our ministers are not worth their pay. If the government loses a GRC and 5 seats in Parliament, they will listen to what you say.
Ng Eng Hen is not the only doctor who earns a million a year. Many other doctors in the private sector can get that sort of salaries. If you read today's newspaper, even fresh graduates from SMU are paid 12k a month. Bankers like Tony Tan are expected to be paid million-dollar salaries...nothing surprising. The salary of the ministers are linked to the salaries of such professionals from where the cabinet draws its talents from: lawyers, accountants, engineers, bankers....in fact, among them, the doctor's pay is relatively modest. -
You and I both know that the elections are very controlled. Boundaries change, lawsuits go aplenty, dirty tactics, 'fixing' the opposition, making sure as many of us cannot vote as is possible, use GOVT funds to threaten us (when this is NOT the GOVT versus the opposition, but PAP vs other parties)Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The police should be deployed to do proper police work, not distracted from their real jobs by protests and demonstrations. As I said, I have no objections to demonstrations if the organisers pay a security firm to maintain order.
I did not say the crime rate will rise with demonstrations. I am saying that we will need to deploy security forces to maintain order and that comes at a cost. As a taxpayer, I do not want my tax money to used in this manner.
Are ministers worth their pay? The population has a chance to vote on it every 4 years. This is a democracy. If Singaporeans think that they are not worth their salaries, let them join the Opposition party and let them compaign on this issue. Take a GRC away from the government if they can find (1) candidates who share their views and are willing to stand for election and (2) if they can persuade Singaporeans that our ministers are not worth their pay. If the government loses a GRC and 5 seats in Parliament, they will listen to what you say.
Ng Eng Hen is not the only doctor who earns a million a year. Many other doctors in the private sector can get that sort of salaries. If you read today's newspaper, even fresh graduates from SMU are paid 12k a month. Bankers like Tony Tan are expected to be paid million-dollar salaries...nothing surprising. The salary of the ministers are linked to the salaries of such professionals from where the cabinet draws its talents from: lawyers, accountants, engineers, bankers....in fact, among them, the doctor's pay is relatively modest.
Why do we need so many MPs? Why do we need so many ministers? This is just a small island. If you are talking about taxpayers' money, then is feeding 80+ MPs worth it?
Demonstrations are not all bad. There may come a time when a demonstration may save your life, or save someone else's.
And so what about SMU grads paid 12k a month? Perhaps we should ask how many of them are paid like that? The point is, statistics on our media is so controlled. They only show you what they want you to see.
You have not talked about their achievements yet. Can you tell me why you think they are worth that money?
Don't talk about CPF, don't talk about HDB, these are achievements of the past, in which I give immense credit to the old cabinet.
What good things did THIS cabinet do, that warrants them to be paid many many many more times than anyone of us?
And don't talk to me about corruption. Paying high pay to ensure their integrity is a total insult, coz it means these people don't have integrity? -
The logically-challenged mushroom strikes again! pro question-dodger
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OTOriginally posted by soul_rage:As long as those guys in white color are in power, the above WILL NEVER happen.
The greatest thing George Washington did, was to ensure that the most powerful person in the country cannot hold power for more than 2 terms. I think that is the best thing he ever did for the country.
Ours? Can hold until the end of time.
No... the Twenty-Second Amendment was ratified way after Washington's time. So it wasn't really Washington's deed. But anyway, to put in place a limitation on the term of a president is indeed an admirable feature of the US Constitution. -
Gold is tried by fire.
How many of them are really gold? Are they really worth that much? -
Tony Tan? You mean our Deputy minister tony tan? You know why he left
OCBC? Not becos LKY want him back... Becos OCBC kinda you know need
someone else
Enough said... -
Originally posted by raymond_sianz:Tony Tan? You mean our Deputy minister tony tan? You know why he left
OCBC? Not becos LKY want him back... Becos OCBC kinda you know need
someone else
Enough said...
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who is really working in MIW?
they are just like any actors and actresses who read out script. go see them in parliament when they speak. who wrote those line for them? if they can not speak on they own mind? are they working for the people?
disgusted. -
OM, i did not read the rest of the threads below but on this, u shld take it in context. Ms Yu is paid £50k to work in uk. whilst it's better than most grad there, it is by no means a `fantastic' pay. in UK, the cost of living and all else taken into consideration, it's an alright situation to be in. it's frivolous and naive to compare pay scale in isolation and then apply it in context of SG.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:What a joke! ...
But Ms Yu, now 25, turned down the offer from the firm - which had been paying her some £50,000 (about S$150,000) a year - to return to Singapore to serve out her bond.
Ms Yu is smart to return home becos she now has the upper hand in the way things turn out for her. If there are naive civil service bosses who thinks like you and then give her a better than market rate pay here in sg becos of her S$150k pay package, then i `salute' those chaps for their `dumbass' reasonings, much like yours... -
Every Budget, all they need to do is punctuate their sentences with words like "fantastic" , " great", "cares for the people" and their job for the rest of the year is done.Originally posted by Joshua1975:who is really working in MIW?
they are just like any actors and actresses who read out script. go see them in parliament when they speak. who wrote those line for them? if they can not speak on they own mind? are they working for the people?
disgusted. -
I didn't know Budgets can be loving and compassionate.
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Wonder what all the fuss is all abou?....bottomline is to show that we can live without much help from the gahmen, let's us all migrate and create a better life for ourselves....
he people who really needhelp are those poor ones, who earn 3 figure salaries a month....those who collect cardborad boxes, the old ones...they need our help
We who have migrated have survived on our own.... -
Oh, apparently in sg, it can.Originally posted by LazerLordz:I didn't know Budgets can be loving and compassionate.
You want a hug from the Budget?
Sure, no problem. -
hmm, me don't love or hate him. Me just see and think objectively. Yes, give credit to him for his contributions and forsight. there are things we also don't agree with him.Originally posted by allentyb:he already built up an impression, either you hate him or you love him
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You don't hate people who treat Singapore like thier personal property or people who treat government like thier father company and milking Singaporean dry?Originally posted by rane:hmm, me don't love or hate him. Me just see and think objectively. Yes, give credit to him for his contributions and forsight. there are things we also don't agree with him.