ISA
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The ISA is just one of the many factors that people take into consideration when they vote in an elections. That the PAP has been elected into power time and again does not therefore necessarily imply that people approve of the ISA. They probably do not disapprove of it strongly enough to vote the PAP out.
After all, when people feel that they are personally not affected by a policy, it is quite human not to struggle too strongly against it. But they overlook the fact that the ISA can be used against anyone, especially when a person is seen to be a genuine political threat to the government.
Francis Seow was also detained under the ISA, though only briefly. But if he had not gone off to the States, who knows how many more times the Act may be used against him.
Another noteworthy example was Tang Liang Hong. The Act was never used against him, but if he had stayed behind in Singapore, he too could have been a victim, as was Anwar Ibrahim of Malaysia and many opposition figures over there.
One must also bear in mind the lack of transparency surrounding the ISA. But even from the little that is known about the Act, and how it has been applied, it is quite obvious that in principle, it is a piece of law that is too easily prone to abuse. One Chia Thye Poh is already one too many.
[This message has been edited by witness (edited 10 August 2001).] -
The ISA is but a tool... the key lies in those who wields its power... it can be the PAP or any other party... but the bottomline is that they must be empowered by the people of singapore.Originally posted by witness:The ISA is just one of the many factors that people take into consideration when they vote in an elections. That the PAP has been elected into power time and again does not therefore necessarily imply that people approve of the ISA. They probably do not disapprove of it strongly enough to vote the PAP out.
After all, when people feel that they are personally not affected by a policy, it is quite human not to struggle too strongly against it. But they overlook the fact that the ISA can be used against anyone, especially when a person is seen to be a genuine political threat to the government.
Francis Seow was also detained under the ISA, though only briefly. But if he had not gone off to the States, who knows how many more times the Act may be used against him.
Another noteworthy example was Tang Liang Hong. The Act was never used against him, but if he had stayed behind in Singapore, he too could have been a victim, as was Anwar Ibrahim of Malaysia and many opposition figures over there.
One must also bear in mind the lack of transparency surrounding the ISA. But even from the little that is known about the Act, and how it has been applied, it is quite obvious that in principle, it is a piece of law that is too easily prone to abuse. One Chia Thye Poh is already one too many.
[This message has been edited by witness (edited 10 August 2001).]
Secondly... though the people of singapore has many considerations in deciding who to vote for... the decision is based on acceptance of the entire package... rather than selective acceptance.... the people of singapore can either accept the ISA which is part of the PAP package or they can reject PAP in totality... but by voting for PAP... the people have accepted the presence of ISA and have empowered the govt to use the power granted as the govt see fit until the next election.
If the people of singapore believe that the ISA has been used as a political tool to suppress the opposition... then their continual support for PAP could then be seen as either... 1. they cant be bother with the demise of the opposition as the people of singapore feels that their(the opposition) presence is expendable or though they feel sorry about it.. they still feel better(more confidence) with PAP in power. 2.they feel that in the world of the strong bully the weak... the ISA helps to nurture a strong opposition force that must show they can stand the test of challenge from the ruling party in order to be entrusted to represent singaporeans among the world.
Lastly... abuse of power need not be from ISA... in fact... even without ISA... abuse of power can still be left unchecked and rampant.....
and how do you think we should deal with espionage without ISA?? if America have CIA and russia have KGB... wouldnt we be naive to think that spies dont exist on this world??
the key lies in the mentality of the populace rather then the presence or absence of checks and counterbalance... if the people are ambivalent towards their surrounding... no amount of checks can prevent abuse of power. the truth lies in the absence of complete information and equal intuitive ability. -
I agree that when one votes for a government, one votes for the whole package, but one doesn't necessarily approve of every component of that package. The ISA is one part of the package that I do not approve of, not least because it contravenes the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
One can deal with spies without the need for an ISA. In the Francis Seow fiasco, wasn't there an American "spy" involved? He wasn't dealt with by the ISA -- he was simply told to leave the country. -
Because that spy has diplomatic immunity... in any case, he is doing what he feels is right for his country of origin... no shame about it..Originally posted by witness:I agree that when one votes for a government, one votes for the whole package, but one doesn't necessarily approve of every component of that package. The ISA is one part of the package that I do not approve of, not least because it contravenes the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
One can deal with spies without the need for an ISA. In the Francis Seow fiasco, wasn't there an American "spy" involved? He wasn't dealt with by the ISA -- he was simply told to leave the country.
What about francies seow?? does he feel shameful about his actions?? and in any case.... he makes the choice... he face the music... no point for bystanders crying for him right? and certainly even senseless to cry for him just because you didnt like ISA... or do you like traitors more then ISA??
As far as i see it... as long as there is no proof that the govt is abusing the ISA... i have no problem voting for the govt to retain its ISA power.
Secondly.. as i said before... when u vote for a package... there aint no such thing call selective acceptance. you voted for it, you bear responsibility for your actions. -
Tripwire, what is your side of story about Francis Seow?
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Francis seow is a pawn in a game between KGB, CIA, singapore ISD and malaysian intelligience service. a naive fool who played right into the hands of america.Originally posted by Illegal Operation:Tripwire, what is your side of story about Francis Seow?
The prize of the game is the control over the straits of melaka and singapore. with it... the control of the oil and trade flow towards the entire far east.
he who controls singapore and malaysia... controls the far east, the north east and the south east asia.
if america wins... america would literally control the entire pacific! and all the nations that rims the pacific...including japan...
if russia wins.... american influence in the far east would be slashed by as much as 50%, furthermore, all CINCPAC ships, subs and planes movement through singapore would be monitored with ease plus the CINCPAC forces would be sliced into half. the economic impact on america would be immeasurable.
the CIA detected russian KGB activities in the two countries 25 years ago.... this alarmed the american leaders.... a plan was put in place... it consist of 2 parts.
part one was to thwart any KGB attempt to gain influence in malaysia and singapore govt by providing intelligience information on KGB activities to the ISD of both country on a need to know basis... 2 malaysian malays, both personal secretary of malaysian PM was arrested after being found to be working for KGB.
part two is to establish local pro america political forces that could be put into power to american advantage in the event the current power fails to appease to american desire or if the current regime is showing signs of pro KGB tendency. seow belongs to this part of the programe.
with the collapse of soviet union... singapore opening CNB to america... the game came to an end with singapore malaysia and america emerge the winner... russia defaulted.. the 2 malaysian traitor and seow lost... the malaysian traitor still locked under malaysian ISD and seow lost his job as AG in singapore and becomes a useless old man in USA licking his wounds and pride. came out with a stupid book that claims absence of mandarin chicken from a 5 star hotel while he is in detention as a cruel form of torture... my god. -
Thanks. Its good to know both sides of the stories.
[This message has been edited by Illegal Operation (edited 12 August 2001).] -
Hmmm... Might be a bad place to ask this. Do you have more detailed information regarding this? Or any suggested reading? If inconvenient, please email to [email protected]
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"No proof that the government is abusing the ISA?"
How much proof does one need? What sort of proof? Isn't the case of Chia Thye Poh proof enough (and this is only one instance when the ISA was used)?
If the man is guilty, try him. Is that so much to ask? Why put him behind bars for years and years and years? And the excuse that he was the one responsible for his own predicament is just laughable -- why should a person sign any undertaking when one is adamant that one is innocent in the first place? -
whatever... if he feels that he needs to make a point that one needs not sign an undertaking of non-violence because he is already non-violent... and wish to make his point stick by living off tax paying singaporean like a sucker fish... well... he made his point... but it cuts no ice with me... free food, free lodging... u know... i think he love to stay in ISA detention...Originally posted by witness:"No proof that the government is abusing the ISA?"
How much proof does one need? What sort of proof? Isn't the case of Chia Thye Poh proof enough (and this is only one instance when the ISA was used)?
If the man is guilty, try him. Is that so much to ask? Why put him behind bars for years and years and years? And the excuse that he was the one responsible for his own predicament is just laughable -- why should a person sign any undertaking when one is adamant that one is innocent in the first place?
in fact.... what can a man like him do in modern singapore after so long in ISA?? anyone wants a sweeper?? maybe thats why he decided it is best for him to stay under ISA... at least in ISA he is somebody... out in the real world... he is a nobody.
I just feel the govt is stupid feeding this sucker fish... they should have sent him to labor camp. -
And just who is responsible if Chia cannot fit into modern-day Singapore?
Are we just mouthing words when we say that "Every Singaporean matters"?
The ISA allows the government to do what they did to Chia to ANY ONE OF US. It is a form of power without accountability. The sooner it is abolished, the better.