Gays : To all Singapore Religious Leaders
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Not sure about that. Maybe all gays are actually bisexuals
Check wiki and dictionary. I have talked about tis before
Homosexuality can refer to both attraction or sexual behavior between organisms of the same sex, or to a sexual orientation.
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Homosexuality is contrasted with heterosexuality (attraction, behavior, or orientation between opposite sexes), bisexuality (both sexes), and asexuality (neither sex).
Homosexual is not equal to bisexual.
If u want to say "maybe", then prove it. Prove homosexual does not exist.I forgotten the details liao .. can describe? That Malay policeman right? Why did gf complain?
They broke upI suppose we should limit the discussion to acts between consenting adults. The law is ammo for the State. Unfortunately it is ammo for certain individuals as well. For example, we all applause when a rape offender is given maximum sentence (for that, prosecution can bring in rape law, incest law, even oral sex law). However we sympathesize with guys whose girlfriends shout rape or oral sex on them. Well, I don't think we should repeal rape law because of that, right?
They r consenting adults. But the law is worded such a way tat it is illegal even if they r consenting. -
*shrug* .. I look at situations pragmatically. If you enact a law that looks good on paper but cant be enforced .. so what? Similary, I believe there are good reasons to keep the status quo on 377A.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Ban them to have a right to have sex. Tat is already very serious itself isn't it ?
While legally their right is banned, on the ground .. who cares? Just like oral sex was still rampant last time.
If you ask me, I believe there are more important things to fight for than 377A. For example, discrimination laws against gays in the civil service, if they still exist.Like ?
The govt has stated her position. You, as the more well read person, know better than me.Then why is homosexual not nature when it is found in many species of animals unnature while manmade medicine combining manmade chemicals using manmade method tat cannot be found in nature, nature ? Is surgery nature ? Don't tell me men will develop arm inside his body and cut itself.
I asked last time how is 'nature' defined. It is surely not darwinian in nature, since the role of sex is to pass down your genes. However it is nature in the sense we can find it in nature. -
*shrug* .. I look at situations pragmatically. If you enact a law that looks good on paper but cant be enforced .. so what? Similary, I believe there are good reasons to keep the status quo on 377A.
Why force such a law to be present ?While legally their right is banned, on the ground .. who cares? Just like oral sex was still rampant last time.
Only u and anti gay don't care don't care ba.If you ask me, I believe there are more important things to fight for than 377A. For example, discrimination laws against gays in the civil service, if they still exist.
We start from 377AThe govt has stated her position. You, as the more well read person, know better than me
The reason they give, IMO is just tat there r bigots around in singapore and tat is why it stay. To me it is an absurb reason, not tat I blame the gov but i blame the bigotsI asked last time how is 'nature' defined. It is surely not darwinian in nature, since the role of sex is to pass down your genes. However it is nature in the sense we can find it in nature.
Then ? I just show tat saying homosexual sex is unnatural is the same rational as saying medicine and surgery is unnatural and not darwanian. People who get diesease easily should die and leave the healthier population reproducing. -
I mean if sexual orientation can be switched, then conceivably one can alternate between, hetero, bi and homo states.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Homosexual is not equal to bisexual.
If u want to say "maybe", then prove it. Prove homosexual does not exist.
Well, there is no evidence to suggest sexual orientation cannot be switched.They r consenting adults. But the law is worded such a way tat it is illegal even if they r consenting.
Yup, have to be or else we can throw the law out. -
This is a big mistake.Originally posted by stupidissmart:We start from 377A
The way to repeal 377A is to start from public perception. And discrimination laws stem from public perception.The reason they give, IMO is just tat there r bigots around in singapore and tat is why it stay. To me it is an absurb reason, not tat I blame the gov but i blame the bigots
The main reason they give is the majority still doesn't approve of it.Then ? I just show tat saying homosexual sex is unnatural is the same rational as saying medicine and surgery is unnatural. Wat does it matter anyway ?
*shrugs*
Using the nature argument can get pretty dangerous. I read some animals kill their spouse .. like praying mantis? You wouldn't want your wife to do the same to you. -
I mean if sexual orientation can be switched, then conceivably one can alternate between, hetero, bi and homo states.
Well, I and most people in the world don't switch sexual orientation. U say people do. Prove it
Well, there is no evidence to suggest sexual orientation cannot be switched.Yup, have to be or else we can throw the law out.
377 is thrown out. Surprisingly 377A is not -
This is a big mistake.
The way to repeal 377A is to start from public perception. And discrimination laws stem from public perception.The main reason they give is the majority still doesn't approve of it.
There is actually no evidence tat states majority do not approve it. I believe the majority is silent. Furthermore, it does not means it is the right thing to do. It shows the tyranny of the masses.*shrugs*
Tat is right. It is the anti gay people who uses tis argument frequently isn't it ?
Using the nature argument can get pretty dangerous. I read some animals kill their spouse .. like praying mantis? You wouldn't want your wife to do the same to you -
Hard to say lah.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Well, I and most people in the world don't switch sexual orientation. U say people do. Prove it
Maybe our sexual orientation is like spectrum, after some super bad experience your orientation can be switched. -
Hard to say lah.
Prove it la. U say I thought who confirm ?
Maybe our sexual orientation is like spectrum, after some super bad experience your orientation can be switched. -
There are statistics.Originally posted by stupidissmart:There is actually no evidence tat states majority do not approve it. I believe the majority is silent. Furthermore, it does not means it is the right thing to do. It shows the tyranny of the masses.
Tat is right. It is the anti gay people who uses tis argument frequently isn't it ?http://www.spug.sg/forums/showthread.php?t=89718
No leh .. the anti gay people do not use the nature argument. They use the religious or moral argument.
A survey by Today this year showed that people here are still conservative.
Asked if homosexuality should be made legal, 62.3 per cent of 300 respondents disagreed — 25.3 per cent strongly so.
Only 11.6 per cent thought it should be legalised while interestingly, 26 per cent had no views either way. -
You cant prove a negative .. that is the problem.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Prove it la. U say I thought who confirm ?
If I find 1 million people who successfully switch orientation .. you can always say they are bisexuals to begin with.
You must find a straight to begin with, prove that this straight will forever remain a straight. But this is circular reasoning? 'cos we haven't prove whether straight-only exists in this world.
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There are statistics
Where ? I don't remember me or anyone I knew being asked. 300 is too little isn't it ? 4,500,000 compared with 300 ? Where do they get their sample ? From the church ?No leh .. the anti gay people do not use the nature argument. They use the religious or moral argument
They do. Tell tat to PRP. And religious arguments also bring in nature to verify their position because otherwise they r guilty of shoving their belief down other people throatYou cant prove a negative .. that is the problem.
Then let me show u a statement first
If I find 1 million people who successfully switch orientation .. you can always say they are bisexuals to begin with.
The American Psychological Association (APA) states that homosexuality "is not changeable", and that attempts at eliminating same-sex attractions are not effective and are potentially harmful.[74] More generally, the APA states, "psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed",[74] and in 2001 United States Surgeon General David Satcher issued a report maintaining that "there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed".[
U know wat, I check tat throughout the world, almost only african and muslim countries banned homosexual. Check figure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_homosexuality_laws.svg -
I said statistics .. not census.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Where ? I don't remember me or anyone I knew being askedThey do. Tell tat to PRP. And religious arguments also bring in nature to verify their position because otherwise they r guilty of shoving their belief down other people throat
You guys use the term 'nature' differently.
You can say homosexuality is rampant in the animal world. PRP can say homosexuality is not natural in darwinian terms.Then let me show u a statement first
Ouch .. the mention of APA rings the alarm bell.
The American Psychological Association (APA) states that homosexuality "is not changeable", and that attempts at eliminating same-sex attractions are not effective and are potentially harmful.[74] More generally, the APA states, "psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed",[74] and in 2001 United States Surgeon General David Satcher issued a report maintaining that "there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed".
OT a little, actually sexual orientation can indeed be changed, using innovative means.
If you are interested - http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nn2019.html -
You guys use the term 'nature' differently.
Medicine is not notaural in darwanian terms ?
You can say homosexuality is rampant in the animal world. PRP can say homosexuality is not natural in darwinian terms.Ouch .. the mention of APA rings the alarm bell.
U mean injecting something into homosexual ? First, it is not proven to work in human. Second, no one know wat is the effect of injecting somehting into human. Third, it prove homosexual is physical/biological in nature
OT a little, actually sexual orientation can indeed be changed, using innovative means.
If you are interested - http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nn2019.html -
It is .. you are increasing your chance of survivial.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Medicine is not notaural in darwanian terms ?U mean injecting something into homosexual ? First, it is not proven to work in human. Second, no one know wat is the effect of injecting somehting into human. Third, it prove homosexual is physical/biological in nature
Just a thought. Only time will tell. -
December 19, 2007Originally posted by Icemoon:Just a thought. Only time will tell.
IT giant IBM to host LGBTI workforce issues session at melbourne outgames conference
By News Editor -
What is the I?Originally posted by happieman:IT giant IBM to host LGBTI workforce issues session at melbourne outgames conference -
I doubt SIS can be convinced to change his stand.So no point to debate with him?
I don't know his stand is no right & wrong about homo or homo is not wrong.Would he please state his stand.I think just debate about this point should be good enough.Otherwise the debates become unfocus. -
Actually what are we trying to convince him?Originally posted by PRP:I doubt SIS can be convinced to change his stand.So no point to debate with him?
I don't know his stand is no right & wrong about homo or homo is not wrong.Would he please state his stand.I think just debate about this point should be good enough.Otherwise the debates become unfocus. -
It is .. you are increasing your chance of survivial
Evolution is survival of the fittest. Not survival of everybody. Medicine is not darwanina because it hinder the natural selection whereby the weaker one r cut off from reproducingJust a thought. Only time will tell.
For your unconventional method, I thik it will probably have to wait many years, like your noah ark film which u r so convinced before.I don't know his stand is no right & wrong about homo or homo is not wrong.Would he please state his stand.I think just debate about this point should be good enough.Otherwise the debates become unfocus.
I think before u say anything, why don't u try to answer some of the questions I asked ? I already told u my stand clearly about homosexual. There is no such thing as right and wrong in many issues and homosexual is one of them. -
So your stand is no right and wrong for homo.What is your reason?Pls don't use the anology of choosing between coffee and tea again because it is inapporopriate.The analogy means one can choose something depend on one's liking.Is it to say one can choose either hetero sex or homo sex depend on one's liking?Originally posted by stupidissmart:I think before u say anything, why don't u try to answer some of the questions I asked ? I already told u my stand clearly about homosexual. There is no such thing as right and wrong in many issues and homosexual is one of them. -
Medicine also cannot guarantee the survival of everybody and not everyone has access to medicine.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Evolution is survival of the fittest. Not survival of everybody. Medicine is not darwanina because it hinder the natural selection whereby the weaker one r cut off from reproducing
Darwin's idea can be applied to nature; it can be applied to the society as well. -
It is good that Icemoon pointed out that survey was different from census.SIS often put up seemingly correct arguments.
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the devil mixes truth with lies? LOLOriginally posted by PRP:It is good that Icemoon pointed out that survey was different from census.SIS often put up seemingly correct arguments.
edit: we are all devils!!
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So your stand is no right and wrong for homo.What is your reason?Pls don't use the anology of choosing between coffee and tea again because it is inapporopriate.The analogy means one can choose something depend on one's liking.Is it to say one can choose either hetero sex or homo sex depend on one's liking?
I have already answer on tis one. Let me just use back my old argument on u
07 December 2007 · 09:46 PM
Wat is good or not is subjective. Is drinking beer good ? Is eating oily and fatty food good ? Is taking more plastic bags during shopping good ? Is fasting to lose weight good ? Com'on... there r many things tat depend on the individual and r subjective. It is not good or bad or right or wrong, it all depend on who u r and the circumstances. In the above questions, it can be good or bad depending on the person who is doing it.Medicine also cannot guarantee the survival of everybody and not everyone has access to medicine.
It has already hindered nature way of weeding out the weaker people from reproductionDarwin's idea can be applied to nature; it can be applied to the society as well.
There r people who r genetically more superior than others but borned in the wrong country. Is tat darwanian if they r die without reproductino while others who r genetically inferior get to reproduce ?It is good that Icemoon pointed out that survey was different from census
Then obviously the survey is not a convincing evidence
