Saudi king 'pardons rape victim'
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... what people do in the privacy of their own homes and is consensual is their own business....Originally posted by protonhybrid:lol grow up. how old are you?
what about singapore when it bans anal and oral sex? are you saying singapore is barbaric and tyrannical. i dont disagree either.
but it's better if singaporeans stick to criticizing singapore only as they know it best, not other countries which they know j****** about.
...send a woman who is sitting in a car with a man to 6 months jail and 200 lashes? OMG barbarians and their supporters...
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... a man found guilty of rape sentenced to under a year jail?
OMG barbarians and their supporters... -
no it's because they've an axe to grind that they find faults with any and everything islamic in arabia, and REPORT IT IN ANGLO PRESS. why not report it in other press? may be in PRC? maybe in russia? maybe in latin america? why only in anglo press? it's obvious to anybody who knows europe's christian history and how they are brought up with hatred against muslims/arabs (used interchangeably in christian europe, west of greece) from yonder. even a french general said something to this effect "Nous revoila" or we're back (my french is n't good) upon reaching Salah Al Din's grave. the one who won jerusalem from invading crusaders from europe. the french did it only about a millennium (roughly) after his death though.Originally posted by fymk:Right , just because they are speaking against the practices, they must have an axe to grind now.
Russia is a western country near Asia. Why are you even bringing in as an anglo matter? It is in a political context - nothing more . Putin has a shady history of being linked to the KGB in the cold war years. It is not even about oppression. It is about mistrust.
shows how much christians of EUROPE are against muslims of middle east friend.
russia isn't a western country IF western country = nato or allies. russia is in fact the very antitthesis of a western country if there can be one. it poses and possesses the single largest arsenal to counter any nato or western efforts to dominate any nation. simply put, russia is the biggest obstacle to nato taking over the whole world.
and with putin's wise and visionary leadership that's becoming a reality every growing day. this means, propaganda war has started, and bbc among other anglophone media takes part in ti. -
stop dragging my relatives into this picture you s***** w*****Originally posted by fymk:I am not emotional.
I said I will impose equal women rights on the world if I could. Tell me what is so wrong and emotional about that?[/quote]
That you'll IMPOSE it in itself no matter what your values are is barbaric and tyrannical. that's one of the "wrong" aspects of it let alone others.
you also choose not to tell me why women can't go topless but men can.As for your lousy argument of women not given the right to be topless, stop fulfilling your perverse fantasies.
how is it a lousy argument? since you have nocounter? why can men go topless and women can't? yet you argue about gender equality? if anything it's your thoughts that are perverse.
How about talking about simple rights such as right to drive , right to a job, right to be whoever they want to with ?I don't see how you can respect a woman who bears life to both genders by the views you have presented.
all you've done once again is repeat the same old brainwashed propaganda you've received from your anglophone "masters' with whom you can't find a fault DESPITE me pointing to SEVERAL inconsistencies in their OWN countries regarding gender equality.
All you have done so far is to disguise women's rights as a western anglo thing to push a view that anyone speaking against the trial is encouraging some sort of colonialism when they maynot be . I am speaking up as a woman
It is about common sense - you don't mistreat another human being because of their gender or race or religion.
[quote]
Like I said and I will say it again. Your mother must be so proud of you to profess such views on oppressing her own gender.
Great on your attempt at disguising me as some anglo oppressor , it just shows how men like you will attempt to drown out voices of women who are oppressed through another excuse, let alone women who are not oppressed.
i never dragged any of your relatives into this argument.
i'm going to the mods -
you remind me of an insane someone that is given to issuing empty threats... not that you won't be complaining to the mods.... that your complaints will be "empty"... meaningless...Originally posted by protonhybrid:stop dragging my relatives into this picture you s***** w*****
i never dragged any of your relatives into this argument.
i'm going to the mods
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Originally posted by fymk:
as already pointed out ho ching is relative of somebody in power in singapore. case closed.
[b]
Ho Ching is actually a woman and she actually controls temasek holdings in Singapore. Go dispute that.
Yes there are few women who can garner the earning power and position but at least they have a chance that they can do so. Some do not wish to because they made a choice to commit to a family. Fact remains : they have the choice.
no there's not a choice. there's not UNLIMITED job opportunities, not for women either. so if they're going to work at hooters, they've to show more skin than men as they've to do if they work in many other establishments in singapore.
Show me one Saudi Arabian woman who is in a top position in Saudi Arabia?
You claim that women are made to wear skimpy clothing. Are they? No one made them work in hooters . If they make a choice to work in a place that demands they wear a skimpy outfit , they have a choice to find another job.
Choice again.
just ho ching bling bling bling. as already stated by others, what about the rest? or is she the only woman in singapore? she is also there thanks to relatives, not thanks to own 'merit'.
As for women earning less and having no decision power , oh I think Ho Ching can make alot of decisions.
There are other women in top positions in Singapore with alot of decision making power , not just Ho Ching.
So try stating that there is discrimination against women in Saudi Arabia - that is a fact. -
what is a CMP? your mum will be very sad, and has been sad ever since she gave birth to a *******.Originally posted by Spartans:Do you think I care about how you think of me. To me, you are nothing but a CMP. Your mum will be very sad to ever give birth to you. End of story. -
how could somebody else be certain about that? apparently it reflects poorly on you since you cant even string together a logical sentence yet joined this forum.Originally posted by Spartans:For certain, person of high standing in logical analysis does not refer you.
enough wasting time with a ******* *******. -
you mean this statement you made "times change. laws must change as well..." is a law?Originally posted by Demonight:Personally I think this is one of those 'khaki pants' arguments. Uniforms change. Times change. Laws must change as well and Sharia laws have been as rigid as they were when 1st enacted
does it mean "all laws must change as times change"? let's refer to this law as "demonight's stupendous law" or "DSL".
will DSL change with times? -
Originally posted by Spartans:
if you have enough intelligence and logical analysis ability, you just need to take a long hard look at your own post to see the contradictions. thanks mate for making my post shorter. i dont need to counter you.
I'm afraid I am rather sick of your antics.
By simply brushing everything away as angophone influence, you have determined that all western media are considered as unworthy. By your standard, all western media reports cannot be used as evidence to support this debate.[b] I do agree, to a certain extent, western media do tuned their reports in such a way to support Western agenda. However, we must note not all reports are written in this way. Certainly not for reports of discrimination against women.
Do you think any Saudi media will report on the cases of women's right groups? And for your information, Saudi government has a stringent control over its media.[/b] -
hate to say it but it's one of the rare occasions when I am in agreement with you.Originally posted by Spartans:Personally I dun think Ho Ching is a good example. She becomes the chairwoman of Temasek Holding simply because of her father-in-law. -
A response on lebanese youths harassing their women. You don't know all the facts. Lebanese gangs terrorise certain parts of Sydney. You can't go down walking in certain areas without middle eastern looking boys yelling slurs at you . That is from my experience walking to a friends place with my female companions.
first and foremost i see where you stand. by supporting oz gangs attacking minority groups you show how you're anti arabic (anti middle eastern too) and anti islamic. which is what exactly fuels your rhetoric which has been proven to have no logical basis, yet you despite failing to come up with a counter only provide a repetition of the same statemetns.
pray tell what is "middle eastern looking". what are the features?The racial riots started over sexual harassment of women in the beaches by middle eastern gangs. The turkish owner of one restaurant known to the locals was untouched if I recalled.
yet turkey is vying for european union membership and mostly european in many ways (and noneuropean in others). how did turks get spared? lebanon itself is not noneuropean entirely. but see as fits you, for brainwashed people aren't easily convinced of their sorry state.
what does this mean? racism goes both ways - what is this supposed to mean? i just pointed to your statement that there is equality commission blah blah in oz, and the contradiction in the form of race riots. what sword i've used? i dont think i've advocated violence in this thread. have i?
And how about the retaliation of the "lebbos" as they call themselves on Marouba Beach residents who had nothing to do with the riots? You want to use a sword but you forgot that it is a double edged sword.
Racism goes both ways. And as for those lebbo's - wait til you hear about the Ashfield rapes transcript . Some lebanese errant youths are happy to call themselves lebbos.
apparently you're also ill versed in probability. your chances of being raped in saudi arabia is zero ONLY IF you enter the country and still have no chance of getting raped, such is the strict laws of that country. IF YOU NEVER enter the country, your chance of getting raped in saudi arabia is not zero, but undefined.
It is also from them , I know how the media sensationalises things. My ideals came from my family upbringing , TV was not my mother. My parents taught me that I am as good as any boy and better if I want to be.
As for your relatives, I don't see any self respecting guy who loves his mother for bringing him up , professing your type of view.
Low office positions no doubt or else there will be an uproar. Did you happen to mention that law and engineering is off limits to women?
You keep talking about rape . My chances of being raped in Saudi Arabia is zero because I won't be entering that sort of country.
again being naive eh? what makes you think i think so? did i ever suggest that? but you did when you said you stand for women all over the world as you're a woman. what makes you women's ambassador from all over the world, when you dont' have the slightest of clues as to what takes place in most parts of the world not covered by anglo media.
And what makes you think you are? Are you a woman?Any one with reasonable intelligence will know what I am talking about.
that's a convenient one-liner, bailing yourself out of trouble. however does it hold any water? slim chance mate!
Judging by your choice of words, one can only assume that you have a prejudice with women talking against you.Women with mental illnesses have rights too. If they do anything to harm others or themselves , the laws do protect their actions as well as add restrictions to prevent them from injuring others and themselves.
i dont want to digress into another area of legal expertise. let's stick to the topic apparently you've a penchant for diverting from main topic.In Saudi Arabia, if a woman is mad and she kills a man , will she be killed or spared? Killed is most likely the answer.
"most likely" is NO definitive answer. if you have to talk about a topic, you MUST KNOW what you're talking about. otherwise you run the risk of proving yourself a big fool. -
that piece of advice is better served to your ownself given the "ownage". just look at how i disproved you.Originally posted by fymk:Love the way you twisted my argument.
How physiologically do races differ? I would think we have the same number of organs , same color of blood, need oxygen to survive - all human races is made up of males and females . Just different looks to adapt to the climate of our ancestors but it is slight difference. When a surgeon operates on a person - he doesn't bother about reading a book on physiology of a chinese or african or arab or caucasian.[/quote]
same number of organs, same colour of blood or oxygen to survive is same for both genders miss jenny *** too. IF ANY medical doctor (whatever specialty) doesn't read up on differences, he's bound to make mistakes which may even be fatal.
look at olympics trend (not just one event) or commonwealth or other multi sports event.
chinese (and orientals) win in ping pong, badminton etc where you require agility and the instruments VER VERY light. consistently.
when it comes to weightliftnig or heavy upper body strength requiring sports, it's almost always caucasoids.
when it comes to short sprint of let's say 100 or 200m, it's almost always africans/negroids. no matter what the incomes, facilities, training etc etc this pattern repeats. how can you say all races are equally well built?
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How physiologically do genders differ? The built , men cannot bear children but women can . Men cannot breast feed their children while women can.
Go read up on physiology . You need to actually understand what physiology means before you embark on an argument with me. -
are you looking for an HTTP link or for a logical connection?Originally posted by Spartans:No link. what a lame reply. If you are lacking of intelligent reply, dun bother to post.
You are not only guilty of gender discrimination, you are also guilty of racial discrimination by your above reply.
Always link Chinese have to be in China? what sort of logic is it? Not relevant to the topic discussed at all
there IS a logical connection FYI.
chinese=inhabitants of china, pertaining relating to or belonging to china?
how come "chinese" are anywhere but china? that's an atrocity in itself whether you like it or not.
doesn't mean they're the only ones who committed such atrocities, but this remains an atrocity nonetheless.
and why would you shudder at the thought of returning to china, it's a booming econmy, world's fastest growing, most populous, tremendous potential, possible economic superpower in next decades? why woudln't you or other chinese oversees not return? -
if i recall correctly, au contraire, it was YOU who's racist appalling levels of it oozing through your posts mate.Originally posted by fymk:This guy has been insinuating racial replies like that while attacking women rights.
So really push him into the right direction and he may show up as the worst racist and sexist person we ever had on the forums.
you supported the oz gangs beating up lebanese in australia for their race, and have an axe to grind aganist them for their laws in arabia, for their "middle eastern" looks, for their actions in australia, for their actions or inactions against turks, and so on and on.
yet i never disparaged the chinese or any other ethnic or racial group in this thread. can you show me where i did?
fyi i mentioned the following about china: world's fastest growing economy, booming economy, great potential, potentially economic superpower in next decades or so and so on.
pray tell how that's "insinuating racial replies". -
some "proof" if you likeOriginally posted by fymk:Again I shall ask you for proof that that happened. That Singapore ignores a crime of rape and abuse because I will be very surprised.
Do you have proof of all the above said medical malpractice case?
If you have documentation or witnesses, you can sue.
You keep dragging in an anglo argument when you presented zit zilch on your so called medical malpractice case.
Where are you from?
You bring no proof of medical malpractice - you NEVER once mentioned the details at all . You just skirted around the topic when asked.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2005/singapore1205/5.htmThe agent in Singapore was cruel. I had to take off all my clothes and was totally nude. They were checking to see if I had hidden money. I was wearing a head scarf. They took it and threw it away. They hit me and kicked me with boots. They asked if I brought anything from Indonesia. They took 50,000 rupiah I had. There were three other girls with me. This was happening in front of them. Only those of us from Indonesia experienced this [treatment]. I had bruises on my head and arms. The employer found out when I went to her home. She asked me to go to the police. I said it didnÂ’t matter because God will punish them. They were Indonesian agents in Singapore from my hometown.
http://www.thinkcentre.org/article.cfm?ArticleID=1264
—Sri Mulyani (not her real name), Indonesian domestic worker, age thirty, Singapore, February 19, 2005Employers keep maids' passports to prevent them from running away. Some maids get no days off and are prohibited from leaving their employers' home. Some women have been beaten and raped by employers, and some have fallen to their deaths while washing windows in high-rise apartments.
SOME QUOTES from among the plethora available. -
can she do it in singapore? not likely either. only chance is through relatives not through own 'merit'.Originally posted by fymk:Yah but can she do it in Saudi Arabia? Sure cannot because not man mah.
btw recent news from anglophone bush leader of usa.
[quote=DubyaBush]"My hope, of course, is that Russia is a country which understands there needs to be checks and balances, and free and fair elections, and a vibrant press; that they understand Western values based upon human rights and human dignity are values that will lead to a better country,"[/quote]
call it racial, ethnic, moral etc etc etc superiority delusion but anglophones seem to be suffering from it. -
too stupid to realize difference between "suspect" and "wrong" or "undesirable"? thought so! not knowing that NO SUCH elements exist WITHOUT reference to a particular place, time culture ethnic group values etc etc, also makes you vulnerable to gulping whatever anglophones send through their media down your throat, with alacrity.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... too stupid to understand the difference between "suspect" and "wrong" or "undesirable"?
Many simply cling on to ancient beliefs without thought, like in this case...
If it is suspect, then you re-consider it to see if it makes sense...
... based on what you have written so far... it seems obvious that you do not know how to think and you simply sprout whatever comes to your small mind...
on this note i present to you another argument. why would you support "democracy" when it's a patently flawed concept and ancient too? -
we didn't get rid of you yet.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... and good riddance...
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by that token, singaporeans have no right to criticize endlessly what happened in saudi arabia, as this thread shows.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:They have no right to do that if Singaporean women wear them in Singapore, but every right to do so if they choose to go against Saudi customs and laws in Saudi Arabia. -
well mate in that case nor does singapore have the right to discuss saudi matters as this thread shows they do, nor do sg men have rights to form bulk of singapore parliament as in real life singapore. nor the decision makers, the movers and shakers, the richest, the most powerful etc etc etcOriginally posted by LatecomerX:Well, I don't think it makes much difference, whether it is a family, or a country - it is only a matter of boundaries. Even between families, each can hold values and a culture which deviate from the norm and differ from each other completely. The focus here is how one would react as a bystander of an incident where one party is being treated unfairly by the other.
And to your question, Saudi doesn't have the rights to tell us all those ideas you have mentioned, just like Singapore doesn't need to teach them how to behave. But neither does the Arab men have the rights to tell the Arab women what to do and not do and deny their rights that every human deserve.
also by that token, those who are chinese should be concerned ONLY with china and stay there.
those who're arabs should only stay in arabia and be concerned with it( saudis fit this bill)
and so on. -
You are too stupid to understand the difference between a discussion of the word "suspect" and "wrong" or "undesirable" and whatever crapz is it that your are going on about.Originally posted by protonhybrid:too stupid to realize difference between "suspect" and "wrong" or "undesirable"? thought so! not knowing that NO SUCH elements exist WITHOUT reference to a particular place, time culture ethnic group values etc etc, also makes you vulnerable to gulping whatever anglophones send through their media down your throat, with alacrity.
on this note i present to you another argument. why would you support "democracy" when it's a patently flawed concept and ancient too?
... and why WOULDN'T I "support "democracy" when it's a patently flawed concept and ancient too" since it makes sense?
...send a woman who is sitting in a car with a man to 6 months jail and 200 lashes?
... a man found guilty of rape sentenced to under a year jail?
OMG barbarians and their supporters... -
Originally posted by LatecomerX:
can you tell me what are the "right" things and "wrong" things to do in this world?
I don't need to insinuate the fact that I know what is right and what is wrong to anyone here. I can tell you directly right now, I know. But it's not just me, everyone knows. Does it comes as a surprise to you that a human should be able to tell what is right and wrong?
that was a funny one mate.There can be situations where inaction is possibly better than action, but it all depends on the cause. In the case where the girl was abused by her father, I would say that the cause to take action and end the unfair treatment is to save her from a suffering which she as a human doesn't deserve. So what's your cause for inaction?
the issue you bring up is based on "rights" that you and ONLY YOU have decided is "fair" and "just" however only mental maturity at a much higher level will reveal to you that's not true. that's not possible, not logically consistent.If you find that how she has been treated is just, I would like to know whether you will be able to walk towards the cruelly tortured girl, covered in bruises all over her body from repeated assails, kneel down and stare straight into her hazel eyes, where you can see her broken soul is begging for help and mercy, telling her calmly "You deserve the punishment. This is fair and right".
leaving the emotions laden speech aside, the fact is it was law of the land. case closed!
it is YOUR shortsightedness that makes you think they're unrelated, they actually are not!
And may I know why are you bringing in unrelated topics into the discussion and evading the main one at hand? For instance, what does Singapore's take on marijuana has to do with women lashed for meeting a male stranger? I have been noticing your arguments versus fymk's. There were many times when she brought up a strong and valid point. But on several occasions, you ignore hers and throw in an issue that is totally unconnected to the current topic. I begin to wonder whether your ignorance is authentic or on purpose? If not, where are the answers I have asked for in my previous post to you?
that is NOT an unrelated issue at all, that's an example of DIFFERENCES in LAWS of different nations.
Why does she/you ignore that case? why dont you give a verdict on singapore vs netherland's stand on marijuana abusers and prostitutes? why dont you come clean and state your position?
Yet to hope that would be the case in arabia is ludicrous isn't it? no apparently not, as anglophone (singapore's colonial masters) say otherwise. NOWHERE in world can the PEOPLE appoint a ruler, there are disagreements, divisions, chaos, mudslinging, so on and on, - all part and parcel of political quibbling. anyway, singapore isn't exactly a representative democracy either. why would you espouse such thoughts being a singaporean/living in sg? what is your stand on SG? it sounds amusing when a singaporean points finger at another place for "lack of democracy".
[b]Nowhere in this world has its entire population decides the rules for themselves - where one part of the population is denying the rights of another to do so. Even if the people are given the rights and don't set the rules themselves, they appoint a group of people to do so on their behalf. You call them the government. But no, I doubt the Arab females had requested for or agreed to the establishment of a law to whip them if they meet up with a male acquaintance.
i think singapore also has 25% residents or around that mark who're not allowed that right at all and will never be! what do you say about that? and singapore's not a democracy not even by your anglophone former masters' ideas either. what is your point then/
Singaporeans under the age of 21 are not involved in voting events and other administrative matters that concern their lives and their country. But 21 years later, will this group of people be given the opportunity to do so? A resounding "Yes", of course. But how long do the Arab women have to wait before having the rights to take full control of their own lives? A thousand years? Probably longer. Or are you expecting them to undergo sex change surgical operations to join the Arab guys who have been denying their human rights, just like you deem liberty as being legal for women to go topless anywhere in public? Personally, I would like the latter to happen. But as humans, shouldn't we not only be able to tell between what is right and wrong, but to also tell between reality and fantasy?
[/b]
and about fantasy and reality being told apart, mate that already happens in a lot of parts of the world. just like it sounds like fantasy to you, it sounds like fantasy in saudi arabia to talk about laws that are so natural to you in singapore being ruled by anglophones ever since last few centuries upto this day, they rule your laws, customs, behaviours, fashions, conscience, entertainment, trade, technology, investment, education. and so on and on and on.....
no doubt you derive your sense of "justice" "fairness" and "rights" from their views. -
You know there's something called international opinion, international outcry something that in a real democratic countries would put pressure to their government to either impose some measure of punitive action or to take action to help or whatever.Originally posted by protonhybrid:by that token, singaporeans have no right to criticize endlessly what happened in saudi arabia, as this thread shows.
We live in an age where the national boundaries of nations diminish because society is now more educated, more connected, more informed to any other part of the world. This in effect makes each single of us no matter what our nationalities are, part of something bigger: the international citizens if you would like to call it where we consider our home 'planet earth' and we do care about other people living in other nations. That is called having empathy. We as human race are in the step of evolution where we do not consider our own tribes as our own environment thus to empathize only with them but we are starting to consider that we are actually the same as a human race i.e, we regard other people in other nations as being our equal bothers so we are starting to empathize even with peoples in other nations.
Mind your own business applies to a personal privacy but not to cases like this obviously.
I say let the women say it out loud in either local or foreign newspaper:
"Rape victim women pardon Saudi King"
Better yet
"Rape victim women ALL OVER THE WORLD pardon Saudi King" -
... totally ridiculous barbaric behavior... based on ancient beliefs that is suspect and irrational and illogical...
OMG barbarians and their supporters...