While the government throws away our hard earned money into frivolous acquisition of over-priced companies overseas. The commoners are left with having to pay the price with high levels of inflation, taxes, fees, charges and fines.

Ever wonder why our wages are so depressed, while citizens from other equivalent GDP per capita economies (e.g. Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, etc) can better afford holidays overseas. Their average wages are at least 3-5 times of Singaporeans (e.g. waiters and retail assistant makes AUD 15 to AUD 25 per hour). Singaporeans can only contend with 3rd world standard of living in the future, given the government's policy on letting in more 3rd world workers to push down wages.

The explanation for low wages given by P4P was global competition, seems like competition only applies to Singapore ONLY. But not to countries such as Australia or New Zealand.

P4P lackeys here complain that some of these countries like Australia, New Zealand, etc have high tax structure. But given their wages, they still make more than the average Singaporeans and could afford more despite their high tax structure. Notwithstanding that they do not need to pay for healthcare and basic education.

***This comparison is based only on the after tax spending power of low wage earners of both countries. I do not think that we need to compare the after tax spending power of high income earners, because they are still extremely well off after taxes.***

Singapore:

Income per year: SG$12,000
Income Taxes: 0%
GST: 7%
Spending Power After GST: SG$11,160 [SG$12,000 x 93%]

Australia:
(waiter or retail staff based on 3 times earnings of Singaporean only, not 5 times which is the higher bound)

Income per year: AU$36,000
Income Taxes: up to AU$6,000 = AU$0; AU$6,001 to AU$25,000 = AU$2,850; AU$25,001 to AU$36,000 = AU$3,300
Australia Personal Tax Rates
Total Income Taxes: AU$6,150 [AU$ 0 + AU$ 2,850 + AU$ 3,300]
Income after Income Taxes: AU$29,850
GST: 10%
Spending Power After GST: AU$26,865 [AU$29,850 x 90%]

An average waiter in Australia will have a spending power of AU$26,865, while a Singaporeans waiter will have only SG$11,160. Why do you think when we go for holidays overseas, we can afford less than an equivalent GDP per capita country like Australia or New Zealand.

You do the maths and tell me who is actually better off after personal taxes and GST.

Singaporeans or Australians???

Though Australia might have a higher personal tax structure, but their average wages are 3 to 5 times of Singaporeans. Even after deducting high taxes and GST, they still do end up with more money in the pocket than an average Singaporean. Moreover, they have no need to pay for healthcare and basic education.


Australian Wages
Bartending/waiting tables: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Chef: $700 - $800 per week (full time)
Retail sales assistant: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Check out operators and cashiers: $500 - $700 per week (full time)
Building/labouring: $650 - $850 per week (full time)
Engineering: $800 - $1500 per week (full time)
Hairdressing: $530 - $650 per week (full time)
Secretarial/administration: $600 - $700 per week (full time)
Child care: $18 - $20 per hour (casual)

Sigh... what's the point of this endless comparison? Only drive yourself crazy.

quality of life is the most important factor of all.

We are slogging away earning pathetic pays.

We do not included the Ministers who are earning exorbitant salaries per year.

Originally posted by fishbuff:

quality of life is the most important factor of all.

How do you measure that? Are you saying the quality of life in SG is high? Can you afford to provide yourself with that level of quality?

Originally posted by maurizio13:

Ever wonder why our wages are so depressed, while citizens from other equivalent GDP per capita economies (e.g. Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, etc) can better afford holidays overseas. Their average wages are at least 3-5 times of Singaporeans

Wait.... Our ministers won't agree with you on this statement.... There is still one profession here that pays a few times better than other countries

In addition, the pay for that profession is still on the rise

Originally posted by eagle:

Wait.... Our ministers won't agree with you on this statement.... There is still one profession here that pays a few times better than other countries

In addition, the pay for that profession is still on the rise

That profession must be related to kind of CON JOB, else the salaries will not be on the increase and paid many times over other countries.

www.immigration.gov.au



1.Dunt waste your life.

2.If u feel oz good,apply now...

Originally posted by lionnoisy:
[b]www.immigration.gov.au



1.Dunt waste your life.

2.If u feel oz good,apply now...[/b]

Why so vindictive?

I am willing to hear your points and arguments if you have any good ones.

Is it because my points are the truth and you don't have any good facts to refute it?

You should convince me and everybody else in here, not chase me away so that you can scam the others.



Where is the other savannah animal?

Another one of the reasons for higher taxes in Australia is because of the welfare tax which they don’t have in Singapore because of the non-existent welfare lol.

[quote]Originally posted by maurizio13:
[
Australia:
(waiter or retail staff based on 3 times earnings of Singaporean only, not 5 times which is the higher bound)

Income per year: AU$36,000
Income Taxes: up to AU$6,000 = AU$0; AU$6,001 to AU$25,000 = AU$2,850; AU$25,001 to AU$36,000 = AU$3,300
Australia Personal Tax Rates
Total Income Taxes: AU$6,150 [AU$ 0 + AU$ 2,850 + AU$ 3,300]
Income after Income Taxes: AU$29,850
GST: 10%
Spending Power After GST: AU$26,865 [AU$29,850 x 90%]

=============================

what about spending power after pension contributions ?

1.SG data:
HDB flat of 90 meter sq and cost S$150,000 to 200,000,mortgage rate 2.6%
Lease 99 years...Property tax per month about S$10 .Brand new flat.

One master room with attached bath,2 common rooms ,
one common bath, kitchen,bomb shelter cum store room

Time to CBD:30 mins by train,45 mins by cars,

Low crime rate.No water shortage.High GDP growth rate.

2.oz facts and figures:

Individual income tax rates

property in oz

Mortgage rate:7.5 % and above....

possible water shortage problem



another new low.

Sydney also facing danger of water crisis,storage level running down for 9 years.
What would happen if the recent down pour did not come?
Who will promise rain will come next year,or later....

Some oz cities just live on the brink of water shortage..

Originally posted by Daddy!!:
[quote]Originally posted by maurizio13:
[
[b]Australia:
(waiter or retail staff based on 3 times earnings of Singaporean only, not 5 times which is the higher bound)

Income per year: AU$36,000
Income Taxes: up to AU$6,000 = AU$0; AU$6,001 to AU$25,000 = AU$2,850; AU$25,001 to AU$36,000 = AU$3,300
Australia Personal Tax Rates
Total Income Taxes: AU$6,150 [AU$ 0 + AU$ 2,850 + AU$ 3,300]
Income after Income Taxes: AU$29,850
GST: 10%
Spending Power After GST: AU$26,865 [AU$29,850 x 90%]

=============================

what about spending power after pension contributions ?

[/b]

You mean the 20% compulsory employee CPF in Singapore?

I think spending power of Singaporeans are pathetic when compared to equivalent GDP per capita countries.

Originally posted by maurizio13:

You mean the 20% compulsory employee CPF in Singapore?

I think spending power of Singaporeans are pathetic when compared to equivalent GDP per capita countries.

spending power of Singaporeans is low, no doubt about it.

what about pension contributions by Australians?

Originally posted by lionnoisy:
1.SG data:
[b]HDB flat of 90 meter sq and cost S$150,000 to 200,000,mortgage rate 2.6%
Lease 99 years...Property tax per month about S$10 .Brand new flat.

One master room with attached bath,2 common rooms ,
one common bath, kitchen,bomb shelter cum store room

Time to CBD:30 mins by train,45 mins by cars,

Low crime rate.No water shortage.High GDP growth rate.

2.oz facts and figures:

Individual income tax rates

property in oz

Mortgage rate:7.5 % and above....

possible water shortage problem



another new low.
[/b]

1) 90 sq.m for $150,000 to $200,000? Which god forsaken kampong (village) is this area?

{Enter 3-room + Toa Payoh + Search} Toa Payoh 3-room (2 bedroom + 1 hall), [60 sq.m to 78 sq.m] price ranges from $183,000 to $270,000.

Who were you intending to trick?

For the $250,000 you pay for a 3-room HDB (2 bedroom + 1 hall), you could get this 2 bedroom + Swimming Pool in Perth for AU$169,000.

For AU$299,000, you could get a 412 sq.m (4,434 sq.ft) property tax, free semi-detached house. At least 6 times your average 3-room HDB leasehold flat.

Wow!!! Must be a bargain deal!!! 4-room HDB going at $150,000 to $200,000!!! Is this HDB related to any body part murders??? Any Adrian Lim satanic human sacrifice ritual took place there?

30mins by train from Pasir Ris or SengKang? Peak hours 30 mins?

Low crime rate doesn't mean no violent crime, so many vicious body part murders these days. Another POSSIBLE reason of low crime rate could be police non-involvement, as can be seen from some recent cases of fight, where police ask the aggrieved to take civil action. Thereby not including the number in the crime statistics.

No water shortage because we are recycling our toilet waters to drink. Which can be easily overcome by Australia, but I think they have more dignity than to drink their own urine and sh|t water. Moreover drinking too much of recycled water is not good, as they contain a chemical additive that is carcinogenic.

2) Though they have a mortgage rate of 7.5%, but this is more or less abated by Australia not having a property tax. In Singapore our property tax for owner occupied property is 4%.

Just think about the property taxes you will still be paying even when you retire, whereas Australians don't need to pay any property taxes when they retire.

Originally posted by Daddy!!:

spending power of Singaporeans is low, no doubt about it.

what about pension contributions by Australians?

I decided not to take that into account because Singaporeans contribute to CPF too. Next you will be asking me about deductions for income taxes, which I did not take into account because both sides have similar deduction system.

If you want to nitpick, then I suggest we wait to see if fymk replies, because she is working in Australia and contributes to super fund, she would be in more of a position to answer.

But from what I know (I could be wrong), if an Australian contributes $1,000, the government will co-contribute a similar amount into his retirement fund.

Originally posted by maurizio13:

1) 90 sq.m for $150,000 to $200,000? Which god forsaken kampong (village) is this area?

{Enter 3-room + Toa Payoh + Search} Toa Payoh 3-room (2 bedroom + 1 hall), [60 sq.m to 78 sq.m] price ranges from $183,000 to $270,000.

Who were you intending to trick?

For the $250,000 you pay for a 3-room HDB (2 bedroom + 1 hall), you could get this 2 bedroom + Swimming Pool in Perth for AU$169,000.

For AU$299,000, you could get a 412 sq.m (4,434 sq.ft) property tax, free semi-detached house. At least 6 times your average 3-room HDB leasehold flat.

Wow!!! Must be a bargain deal!!! 4-room HDB going at $150,000 to $200,000!!! Is this HDB related to any body part murders??? Any Adrian Lim satanic human sacrifice ritual took place there?

30mins by train from Pasir Ris or SengKang? Peak hours 30 mins?

Low crime rate doesn't mean no violent crime, so many vicious body part murders these days. Another POSSIBLE reason of low crime rate could be police non-involvement, as can be seen from some recent cases of fight, where police ask the aggrieved to take civil action. Thereby not including the number in the crime statistics.

No water shortage because we are recycling our toilet waters to drink. Which can be easily overcome by Australia, but I think they have more dignity than to drink their own urine and sh|t water. Moreover drinking too much of recycled water is not good, as they contain a chemical additive that is carcinogenic.

2) Though they have a mortgage rate of 7.5%, but this is more or less abated by Australia not having a property tax. In Singapore our property tax for owner occupied property is 4%.

Just think about the property taxes you will still be paying even when you retire, whereas Australians don't need to pay any property taxes when they retire.

4% property tax in Singapore refers to 4% of expected annual rental income of S$15K to S$50K depending on the type of condo while 7.5% mortgage rate in Australia refers to 7.5% of the outstanding loan of A$150K to A$300K depending on the downpayment and size of loan.

hasn't anyone told you that if wages and taxes rise, the cost of services and products are gonna rise too? if you're prepared to pay three times as much as you do now for a meal outside or $5 for a short ride on the train(you're comparing with australia right?) then by all means go ahead and b|tch and moan about our already very low taxes and affordable standard of living.

Originally posted by Daddy!!:

4% property tax in Singapore refers to 4% of expected annual rental income of S$15K to S$50K depending on the type of condo while 7.5% mortgage rate in Australia refers to 7.5% of the outstanding loan of A$150K to A$300K depending on the downpayment and size of loan.

Yah.

If a person starts buying a house in Singapore when he is 28 and lives to 78. He would have paid SG$15,000 x 4% x 50 years = SG$30,000 in property taxes.

Say this average Singaporean making SG$11,160 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income to pay for his housing 2 bedroom HDB of SG$183,000. At mortgage rate of 5.20% (fixed rate), he would need some 37.78 years to pay off his HDB flat. On top of this loan repayment, this Singaporean would still need to pay some SG$600 (Property Tax) + SG$110 (TV Licence) = SG$710 every year.

DBS Home Loan Packages

I am not sure if you do present value of an annuity, it would be easier, else you have to manually plug the numbers into a spreadsheet.

Yr1: SG$183,000 (loan) + SG$9,516 (interest) - SG$11,160 (repayment)
Yr2: SG$181,356 (loan) + SG$9,430 (interest) - SG$11,160 (repayment)
Yr3: SG$179,626....................................
-
-
Yr38:......................


Say if an Australian making AU$26,865 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income on an equivalent 2 bedroom condominium in Perth for AU$163,000. At a mortgage rate of 8.29% (fixed rate), he would need some 8.78 years to pay off his condominium.

http://www.banking.hsbc.com.au/utility/rates/

Originally posted by vito_corleone:

hasn't anyone told you that if wages and taxes rise, the cost of services and products are gonna rise too? if you're prepared to pay three times as much as you do now for a meal outside or $5 for a short ride on the train(you're comparing with australia right?) then by all means go ahead and b|tch and moan about our already very low taxes and affordable standard of living.

But seems like Singapore is the place with inflated cost, because you make 3 times less wages, yet the price of necessities cost the same when compared to Australia.

Compare the prices of necessitites sold in supermarkets of Australia and Singapore. Prices are more or less the same. Sometimes it's cheaper in Australia because the products (e.g. milk, pork, beef, lamb, rice, vegetables) we consume are local produce there, so it does not incur shipping and freight charges, which adds to the price of product.

Woolworths Supermarket (Australia)
Sunrice Sunwhite Calrose Rice 5kg: AU$ 9.53

Australian Pork Roast Shoulder Boned & Rolled Min 1.5kg = AU$8.99

Cold Storage Supermarket (Singapore)
Calrose Australian Calrose Rice 5kg = SG$9.50 (Enter: Start Shopping, Grocery + Rice)

Rolled Pork Loin Rind On 1kg = SG$26.90 (Enter: Start Shopping, Meat + Pork)

You can maybe do the other comparisons and tell me which product is more expensive in Australia as compared to Singapore.

As for mobile charges, I compared Optus and Singtel the last time, they are more or less similar.

So your speculation that prices in Australia would cost 3 times as more when compared to Singapore does not hold.

Singapore affordable??? The stuff you using must be damn good.



Lower taxes does not imply affordability when your wages are 3 times lower than an equivalent GDP per capita country.

Originally posted by maurizio13:

1) 90 sq.m for $150,000 to $200,000? Which god forsaken kampong (village) is this area?

{Enter 3-room + Toa Payoh + Search} Toa Payoh 3-room (2 bedroom + 1 hall), [60 sq.m to 78 sq.m] price ranges from $183,000 to $270,000.

Who were you intending to trick?

For the $250,000 you pay for a 3-room HDB (2 bedroom + 1 hall), you could get this 2 bedroom + Swimming Pool in Perth for AU$169,000.

For AU$299,000, you could get a 412 sq.m (4,434 sq.ft) property tax, free semi-detached house. At least 6 times your average 3-room HDB leasehold flat.

Wow!!! Must be a bargain deal!!! 4-room HDB going at $150,000 to $200,000!!! Is this HDB related to any body part murders??? Any Adrian Lim satanic human sacrifice ritual took place there?

30mins by train from Pasir Ris or SengKang? Peak hours 30 mins?

Low crime rate doesn't mean no violent crime, so many vicious body part murders these days. Another POSSIBLE reason of low crime rate could be police non-involvement, as can be seen from some recent cases of fight, where police ask the aggrieved to take civil action. Thereby not including the number in the crime statistics.

No water shortage because we are recycling our toilet waters to drink. Which can be easily overcome by Australia, but I think they have more dignity than to drink their own urine and sh|t water. Moreover drinking too much of recycled water is not good, as they contain a chemical additive that is carcinogenic.

2) Though they have a mortgage rate of 7.5%, but this is more or less abated by Australia not having a property tax. In Singapore our property tax for owner occupied property is 4%.

Just think about the property taxes you will still be paying even when you retire, whereas Australians don't need to pay any property taxes when they retire.

i am not PAP supporters but as far as i know, australia these days are not cheap to stay either. how i know? coz my kids are there.

For the $250,000 you pay for a 3-room HDB (2 bedroom + 1 hall), you could get this 2 bedroom + Swimming Pool in Perth for AU$169,000.

For AU$299,000, you could get a 412 sq.m (4,434 sq.ft) property tax, free semi-detached house. At least 6 times your average 3-room HDB leasehold flat. [b]

these data are probably more than 3 years ago.
in Perth these days, few houses go below AUD300k for a decent one. prepare +AUD700k if u r looking for 10 minutes drive to perth city.
the cheaper city nowadays could be adelaide.

points i do agree that for those hard labours, middle lower, lower skills job, australia does indeed pay 3-5 times higher than those in singapore.
however when come to middle management or top management jobs, it is almost equal or could sometimes lower than singapore due to the tax deduction. You are right that waitress, carpenters, plumber, car mechanics, cashier earns good living in australia and everyone as long as got a job could live decently a good living in australia. the same cannot be said for the same group in singapore holding the same comparison jobs.
But on the otherhand, as far as i am concern after speaking to group of singaporeans, they are majority PAP supporters. either they are contented of the life or the propanganda by the Goebbels are magnificient in making ppl beliebve there is no land better than singapore.
[/b]

But those prices were taken from an online site yesterday night. I don't live in Perth, so I am not in an authoritative position to state the price. You can click on the link to check on the price of housing in Perth. Also depends on your definition of "decent", I am comparing HDB standards with a condominium in Perth. Since you say your children are there, I guess your definition of decent should be high, because your children can afford to study or emigrate there.

I agree that the poor in Australia are more abled to make ends meet than in Singapore. But sad thing is, the poor in Singapore will never have a chance to emigrate to Australia to make 3-5 times more for their labour. Instead our beloved P4P imports more foreign labour to compete against citizens for wages and resources (housing, transportation, etc). Thus, the lower wage earners are stuck in a perpetual poverty spiral.

Let's face it, with the current influx of foreign talents to compete for low level jobs, the wages for these sectors are not going to increase. Whereas, price levels will inflate to higher levels (e.g. higher housing cost, transport cost, food, etc), decreasing the standard of living for our low level wage earners.

hasn't anyone told you that if wages and taxes rise, the cost of services and products are gonna rise too? if you're prepared to pay three times as much as you do now for a meal outside or $5 for a short ride on the train(you're comparing with australia right?) then by all means go ahead and b|tch and moan about our already very low taxes and affordable standard of living.

as someone mention. The cost of foods in supermarket is about the same in singapore.
i agree the very reason the cooked foods in resturanats and food court cost so much is because of high wages. if u cook yourself, then that should not hurt you too much.
if i am not wrong, majority of the aussies class dont take a train that much. If u work outside city, few take a trains. unless u work in downtowns. the cost of cars or petrol no matter how your compare/exchange rate is still lower than singapore.
Car average price: 150% cheaper.
petrol average price:25-30% cheaper.

thus the comparison of train ride comparison is not so suitable as most aussies drive and mostly tourist or foreigners/ students take a train. thus that why u feel the pinch when u visit aust.

But truth about the rapid salary increase in australia is due to many reason. one such reason is commodity booms, resulting in shortage of labours for the services sector, construction, engineerin sector + govt strict control of foreign influx of labours.
i feel the thread starter are discussing these topic because he feel more can be done for the betterment for the lower and middle lower earners in singapore. In these case, i dont understand why some forumers still wana flame him.

Train rides from Padstow to the City (distance 22.54km) 30 days flexipass would cost AU$133.

http://www.cityrail.nsw.gov.au/fares/calculator.jsp?from=119&to=16

If you divide by 30 days plus return trips, each ride would cost AU$2.22.
[AU$133 / (30 x 2)]

I doubt locals are that stupid to take a AU$5 trip to work everyday, when they can buy a monthly flexipass.

AU$2.22 is slightly more expensive than our SMRT fares.