People just evaluate from what u write,as well as what you quote.

If u quote without any qualifications,it mean you agree what you
quote.

The worst is the learned Professor has stayed in Singapore!!

Now u can see for yourself the standard of our learned CHEE SOON JUAN,PhD.

....The reason: to fill jobs left vacant as native born Singaporeans continue to emigrate at what is perhaps the second highest rate in the world (an estimated 26.11 per thousand, second only to East Timor.)....

1.PAP cover the true no. of emigration is the best defense
Many of you will pick this grand reason to support another learned academic
living in ivory tower disconnected from the real world.Oh My Lord!!
The writer ''Dr Arthur Waldron is the Lauder Professor of International Relations in the Department of History at the University of Pennsylvania. He is also the Vice President of International Assessment and Strategy Center.''

2.How much is ''26.11 per thousand''?
The so called professor dunt bother to make clear if he refer to(A) Singapore
Citizens alone or (B)including citizens and PR(SG calls Resident Population)?

Date
2007
Total Population----('000)--....Singapore Residents,('000)(citizen and PR)
4,680.6........................................3,675.1

Lets assume there are 400,000 of PR.
So SG citizens will be 3.275 million .
If the learned Professor is correct,Sg emigration will be
3.275 million x 26.11/1000=85,500 persons pa.

3.I remember there are some 10,000 apply for Oz emigration
visa and few thousand for US visa a year.
So the total shall not be more than 30,000.

4.The intention of writer is the concern
I think the writer just wants to pour oil to the growing
hate to FT.He mentioned

''Instead of permitting immigration from Malaysia and Indonesia,''

Has the professor know how many scholars from Malaysia and Indonesia
and other ASEAN countries study in SG and work here?

How many Indians stay here and convert to SG citizens?

PRC is just a portion.

5.How can I trust him if he cant make a figure credible

Arthur Waldron is the Lauder Professor of International Relations in the Department of History at the University of Pennsylvania. His specialties are the history of China and Eurasia, and the history of war and violence....been a visiting fellow at the Institute for Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.

Ai Ya.He has stayed in here and dunt know anything here!!

http://commentarysingapore.blogspot.com/2006/11/on-emigration.html

In the Straits Times today, some writers discuss a July survey which showed that 53% of young Singaporeans would consider emigration. Can Singapore depend on its youth to stay here and take ownership of the country, our ever-complaining MPs lament in Parliament.

Actually I wonder why young Singaporeans are being singled out in particular. After all, Singaporeans in just about every age group are emigrating. This article, written in 2005, cites various sources and tells us that:
* Every year, 6,000 to 7,000 Singaporeans leave to settle down overseas, including many professionals. This is 15% of today's annual births, probably the highest proportion in the world.

* One survey has put Singapore's average outflow at 26.11 migrants per 1,000 citizens, the second highest in the world - next only to East Timor (51.07).

* Nearly half of all Singaporeans do not think they need to be a resident to be emotionally rooted to the country.

* Six out of 10 undergraduates said they wanted to go abroad to live or work mostly for better economic and job prospects, and enjoy a higher quality of life with less stress.

* An ACNielsen poll showed 21% of Singaporeans, mainly professionals, were considering emigration, half opting for Australia and New Zealand.

* Between 100,000 and 150,000 Singaporeans are studying, working or in business in foreign countries; leaders fear that many of them will not return.
On a separate note, I do not really believe that the government is really concerned about the high emigration rate, as long as it is able to continue attracting sufficient numbers of foreigners to Singapore.

Originally posted by ^tamago^:

http://commentarysingapore.blogspot.com/2006/11/on-emigration.html

....

Actually I wonder why young Singaporeans are being singled out in particular. After all, Singaporeans in just about every age group are emigrating. This article, written in 2005, cites various sources and tells us that:

* Every year, 6,000 to 7,000 Singaporeans leave to settle down overseas, including many professionals. This is 15% of today's annual births, probably the highest proportion in the world.

* One survey has put Singapore's average outflow at 26.11 migrants per 1,000 citizens, the second highest in the world - next only to East Timor (51.07).

.

1.The two figures above is 7000 vs 85,500(26.11 per 1,000 )
u quote two figures which different in 1000 %!!
Which one u think is credible??

BTW,which survey told u 26.11 migrants per 1,000 ?

2.Survey of how many would move to countries is different from
our focal point here:

How many have emigrated ?

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

1.The two figures above is 7000 vs 85,500(26.11 per 1,000 )
u quote two figures which different in 1000 %!!
Which one u think is credible??

BTW,which survey told u 26.11 migrants per 1,000 ?

"One website survey, which is unverified, has put Singapore's average outflow at 26.11 migrants per 1,000 citizens, the second highest in the world - next only to East Timor (51.07)."

which survey? google it urself pls. i'm sure u're very good at cut and paste. not forgetting the figures are indicated as an estimate. pls dun give one side of the story. even 7,000 is at most an estimate. even if 2.61% of the population is gone every year, i'm not surprised.

and if the DoS or ICA does not want to give official figures, don't blame others for providing estimates for u and then deny when it doesn't look good.

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

2.Survey of how many would move to countries is different from
our focal point here:

How many have emigrated ?

You got read clearly or not. This survey is not that survey, and did it say polls = actual figures. Pls stop your one-sided accusations.

Not a focal point? So it is true that the Government does not care about its people until the day they are out of the country yeah? And they're only interested in wooing what's outside, but does not bother about the inside?

singapore emigation figure is available here..
http://www.faqs.org/docs/factbook/print/sn.html

look like we have to rely on foreign press to get our local statistics eh..
i supported DoS (dept of statistics) before and they got shitloads of data and statistics... but not for public eyes hor..

I think the Department of Statistics should disclose information regarding current immigration figures and the number of citizens and permanent residents.

Why keep such information privy from the public? Why hide something unless the disclosure would reveal certain trends. (like more citizens emigrating)

Hiding statistics is a weapon to keep academics in toe with govt policies. If an academic decides to criticize the govt, he may well find his data wrong,just like NTU Professor Lim Chong Yah who criticized the govt over percentage of jobs created for Singaporeans some years back.

There is a similar mentioned by another academic on CPF, that the govt uses these data as a trump card over policy researchers.

only 85k?

i have relatives who migrated to aust just this year. whole family of 4.
Considering that my relatives round up to around 50 (max, including babies).
that makes 8% mig. rate this year.
considering 4mil sg ppl, that makes 320k person.

but, nvm, sg can always get india, china to replace our population.
we can also change our country to: Indapore, or Cheenapore.

simple

Originally posted by extrinsic:

only 85k?

i have relatives who migrated to aust just this year. whole family of 4.
Considering that my relatives round up to around 50 (max, including babies).
that makes 8% mig. rate this year.
considering 4mil sg ppl, that makes 320k person.

but, nvm, sg can always get india, china to replace our population.
we can also change our country to: Indapore, or Cheenapore.

simple

my family one person went overseas to work... and i have a family of 4...
does this means that 1/4 or 25% or 1 million singaporeans are currently working overseas??

Originally posted by Father Lim:

my family one person went overseas to work... and i have a family of 4...
does this means that 1/4 or 25% or 1 million singaporeans are currently working overseas??

yup, in my context.
cuz, i dun believe in stats.

the thing i learned about stats in sch, is, it's mostly make up, to protect something or some interest.
mostly untrue and levelled up multiple times to show some particular trend in the interested trend.

there is HARDLY any true and 3rd party stats, sadly.

Thus, i can only build my own stats, based on my personal life experience.
of cuz there can be other ppl stats, who have zero.

I can relate to the problem of citizens migrating.

To give you my perspective, in the course of my work I train staff in their roles. Some leave after working for barely a year.

I guess they feel they have learnt all they can and it's time to move on or else the work/pay/conditions are not in line with what they expect or that after their experience with us they are more valuable to the market.

The company I work for is small and we don't have the propects or resources to entice them to stay so we lose these people that we have invested time and resorces training.

I don't wish these people any ill because I can understand their point of view. I'm just saying there's no easy fix.

I wish the Government all the best in dealing with their problem.

Want to emigrate to another countries better think and plan properly.
Once a singaporean emigrate to another countries and give up spore citizenship is no longer a singaporean. What happen when he or she regret,
or cannot use to the countries he emigrate or the new society do not accept
him , then he want to return to spore he will consider foreigner not sporean.

Originally posted by sundaytimes:

Want to emigrate to another countries better think and plan properly.
Once a singaporean emigrate to another countries and give up spore citizenship is no longer a singaporean. What happen when he or she regret,
or cannot use to the countries he emigrate or the new society do not accept
him , then he want to return to spore he will consider foreigner not sporean.

So? So what? Singapore gahmen favour foreigners, so does it matter if one is still a Singaporean? Think carefully, think truthfully, before you pen you post.

Originally posted by sundaytimes:

Want to emigrate to another countries better think and plan properly.
Once a singaporean emigrate to another countries and give up spore citizenship is no longer a singaporean. What happen when he or she regret,
or cannot use to the countries he emigrate or the new society do not accept
him , then he want to return to spore he will consider foreigner not sporean.

sporean emigrants benefits;
- exempted from NS liabilty (NS for singaporeans, job for foreigners)
- free from forced organ donation.
- no overcrowded living.
- humane working environment
- no overpriced cars with COE and ERP.
- no HDB leasing (they can take back your flat anytime)
- no stuff stupid policies down your throat and couldnt care if u gag. (remember GST, minister pay, transportation cost increase?)
- no lack of jobs opportunity when u grow old.
- no expensive medical care when u are sick.
- no expensive ministers that know only to add more burdens to u.
- no elitism. in SG, when u are at the bottom or middle, u are a serf to a greater good. and namely, the Lees and PAP are the greater good.

when u surrender your citizenship, your CPF will be liberated! u dont have to wait until 85 to get it!

my PRC friend here in brisbane works as a Bar-qua prep worker and can live in a 2-storey bungalow in a good suburb with a new toyota car.

so.. what will your decision be?

Originally posted by fishbuff:

sporean emigrants benefits;
- exempted from NS liabilty (NS for singaporeans, job for foreigners)
- free from forced organ donation.
- no overcrowded living.
- humane working environment
- no overpriced cars with COE and ERP.
- no HDB leasing (they can take back your flat anytime)
- no stuff stupid policies down your throat and couldnt care if u gag. (remember GST, minister pay, transportation cost increase?)
- no lack of jobs opportunity when u grow old.
- no expensive medical care when u are sick.
- no expensive ministers that know only to add more burdens to u.
- no elitism. in SG, when u are at the bottom or middle, u are a serf to a greater good. and namely, the Lees and PAP are the greater good.

when u surrender your citizenship, your CPF will be liberated! u dont have to wait until 85 to get it!

my PRC friend here in brisbane works as a Bar-qua prep worker and can live in a 2-storey bungalow in a good suburb with a new toyota car.

so.. what will your decision be?

Agree fully.
- No Artificially inflated HDB flat prices
- No Highest paid part-time job in the world (Member of Parliament > $19,000/mth), not to mention Singaporeans are paying their salary
- No stupid ERP gantries that appear anywhere anytime, and switch on whenever, priced at however they want.
- No stupid TV license that they refused to remove even after so many complaints

got money of course emigrate!

sg is only good for its food.

Originally posted by soul_rage:

Agree fully.
- No Artificially inflated HDB flat prices
- No Highest paid part-time job in the world (Member of Parliament > $19,000/mth), not to mention Singaporeans are paying their salary
- No stupid ERP gantries that appear anywhere anytime, and switch on whenever, priced at however they want.
- No stupid TV license that they refused to remove even after so many complaints

I think it is wrong to implement ERP outside the city area cause they are not so jam n if in city, still make sense.

Originally posted by extrinsic:

yup, in my context.
cuz, i dun believe in stats.

the thing i learned about stats in sch, is, it's mostly make up, to protect something or some interest.
mostly untrue and levelled up multiple times to show some particular trend in the interested trend.

there is HARDLY any true and 3rd party stats, sadly.

Thus, i can only build my own stats, based on my personal life experience.
of cuz there can be other ppl stats, who have zero.

stats can be true. It is the analysis done on the stats, or/and the lack of certain information, that can mislead others. Eg, the conclusion that ERP helps Singaporeans own more cars... Statiscally it is correct... But there are so many other factors, like did car usage increase, etc...

Originally posted by extrinsic:

yup, in my context.
cuz, i dun believe in stats.

the thing i learned about stats in sch, is, it's mostly make up, to protect something or some interest.
mostly untrue and levelled up multiple times to show some particular trend in the interested trend.

there is HARDLY any true and 3rd party stats, sadly.

Thus, i can only build my own stats, based on my personal life experience.
of cuz there can be other ppl stats, who have zero.

then if my family and relatives have no one emigrating overseas, does that mean that there is no emigration in singapore??

Originally posted by eagle:

stats can be true. It is the analysis done on the stats, or/and the lack of certain information, that can mislead others. Eg, the conclusion that ERP helps Singaporeans own more cars... Statiscally it is correct... But there are so many other factors, like did car usage increase, etc...

i strongly believe stats are done this way:

1)
Name: ah beng
Qs: Do you feel happy about living in sg? NO

2)
Name: FT
Qs: Do you feel happy about living in sg? YES

3)
Name: ah seng
Qs: Do you feel happy about living in sg? NO

Conclusion to public: 100% of ppl in sg say they love staying in sg.

wad abt the negative answer? check their recycle bin

Originally posted by extrinsic:

i strongly believe stats are done this way:

1)
Name: ah beng
Qs: Do you feel happy about living in sg? NO

2)
Name: FT
Qs: Do you feel happy about living in sg? YES

3)
Name: ah seng
Qs: Do you feel happy about living in sg? NO

Conclusion to public: 100% of ppl in sg say they love staying in sg.

wad abt the negative answer? check their recycle bin

That is a strong claim you are making without knowing how their statistics are derived. There are statistical calculations to determine the correct sample size, and the spread of it around a mean, in topics such as estimation theory and hypothesis testing and etc.

Originally posted by eagle:

That is a strong claim you are making without knowing how their statistics are derived. There are statistical calculations to determine the correct sample size, and the spread of it around a mean, in topics such as estimation theory and hypothesis testing and etc.

because most the stats made by the govt looks so unreal to me.
just like how they get the stats, i got my claims the same way.

in fact, i think for most of the survey, they did a pre-selection and reject of the candidates for the survey. Reason if becuz i participate in such survey becuz and was stunned to show such things.

something like, they have already targetted the range of candidates that are most likely to produce a positive answer to participate.

Originally posted by fishbuff:

singapore emigation figure is available here..
http://www.faqs.org/docs/factbook/print/sn.html

look like we have to rely on foreign press to get our local statistics eh..
i supported DoS (dept of statistics) before and they got shitloads of data and statistics... but not for public eyes hor..

1.tx for your effort and we can talk on same frequency

2.Chicken talking to goose--the figure just show net increase of migration
in SG,not emigration ,dear.

Net migration rate :An excess of persons entering the country is referred to as net immigration (e.g., 3.56 migrants/1,000 population);an excess of persons leaving the country as net emigration (e.g., -9.26 migrants/1,000 population).

The net migration rate indicates the contribution of migration to the overall level of population change.

Net migration rate:
26.11 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2002 est.)

3.dunt quote without reading it

4i teach u how do counter pap to get the real figures

1.read www.mha.gov.sg for ''no criminals records certificaTE''.
U NEED TO apply visa.

2.search all embassy figures for their figures..

Originally posted by ^tamago^:

http://commentarysingapore.blogspot.com/2006/11/on-emigration.html

* Between 100,000 and 150,000 Singaporeans are studying, working or in business in foreign countries; leaders fear that many of them will not return.
On a separate note, I do not really believe that the government is really concerned about the high emigration rate, as long as it is able to continue attracting sufficient numbers of foreigners to Singapore.

these figures certainly have a very negative implication on Spore's defence force.