I am the Minister of Education replied by youyayu @ Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:27:00 +0800

youyayu — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:27:00 +0800

Originally posted by Lin Yu:

and he agrees that these sec 5 should go ITE

I am the Minister of Education replied by 798 @ Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:48:04 +0800

798 — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:48:04 +0800

frankly speaking, there is absolutely no way to survive in sg if u have only just an ite cert.

I am the Minister of Education replied by Khadgar @ Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:39:09 +0800

Khadgar — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:39:09 +0800

regarding ite's environment, i can tell you guys, unless you're really motivated to study ( and i mean REALLY ), it would be easy to get into poly despite the competition..

i was from ite higher nitec, finished my o lvls a couple of years ago, applied for poly but was ultimately rejected due to the inflow of jc students coming in, as my grades werent the best ( just average ), i was unable to get into any courses at all.

spent a year in ite, realised that the teachers/lecturers there usually "see face" before making decisions of grades, discipline etc.
theres this classmate of mine, every morning buy mac breakfast for teachers and por their lanpa everydae. even when hes absent from school without reason, the teachers just close an eye about it. well, thats a minor thing you might say, but it made me question the professionalism of these teachers.

there are stories of the people from ite making it big out there but look at the statistics, its like a few percent of the entire cohort.

ite is not a bad school, in fact its much better compared to last time but the environment/facilities can never compete with polys and jcs.

perhaps i gave up too easily, but i left the sch after a year and went out to get a part time job and taking private dip classes, in fact, i feel more satisfied this way for some reason.

well, to each his own.

I am the Minister of Education replied by maurizio13 @ Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:28:06 +0800

maurizio13 — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:28:06 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

Actually they do...they use consultants to gather intelligence on how much employers/businesses will take if they raise taxes or impose a minimum wage. The experience of Europe has shown that if you have a minimum wage, that will automatically become the maximum wage a new employee can expect. To make sure workers have decent wages, you will have to raise the minimum wage to a decent level. But that will mean higher costs for employers, who will have to pay the minimum wage to foreign workers as well.

The UK minimum wage is 5.52GBP per hour or S$15.50. If you hire a waiter to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 4 weeks, the bill comes up to S$2480. Pretty decent, you might say. But can the restaurant afford to pay this to its lowest-paid waiters? All the PRC workers will flock to Singapore and there will not be a shortage of waiters. Instead, the restaurant owners will either increase your bill or pack up and set up shop in JB or Hong Kong. Since Hong Kong, our closest competitor, does not have a minimum wage, we will lose out in competitiveness. The luxury restaurants like Les Amis will not have a big problem....your dinner bill may go up from $600 to $650 for two....not a big problem. But the coffee shop owner may have to close shop, because with his clients he cannot afford to pay 2.4k for a coffee shop assistant.

But maybe the UK rates are too high. Let's use rates in Asia then. The minimum wage in fellow industrialized nation South Korea is 30,160 won or S$46 per day. The waiter who works 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month will now cost only S$920. The employer is happy, because he now can reduce the salaries of all his workers to just $920 a month, because that is perfectly legal. It's good for business, but is it good for Singaporean workers?

Not necessarily so.

If the restaurant according to you employs more minimum wage workers from India or China, then the poor of the country will suffer because wages are constantly forced down due to increased usage of cheap foreign labour. While price level maintains the status quo, there will be a decreased standard of living as low wage workers are less able to afford the basic necessities.

Price levels are always sticky downwards, as a business owner, if there is a business downturn and a decrease in orders for goods. Do you think?

1) Business owner will decrease selling price of goods to retain all workers.

2) Business owner will decrease workers to maintain the selling price of goods.

A good example is Nike. Their shoe production have all shifted to China from USA, but have prices come down or have prices maintain their previous levels.

Therefore an increase in low wage workers from 3rd world country can only decrease the standard of living for the local low wage workers.

If according to you, the restaurant owners all pack up shop and set up shop in JB or Hong Kong, there will be an increase supply of restaurants. More restaurants fighting for the same quantity of pie, eventually their earnings will decrease due to the increased competition.

Restaurants might not do well in other countries, because not everybody is accustomed to the local taste of a particular country. So for a restaurant to relocate overseas is not a practicality, there are other issues regarding tax and business laws. Try setting up a beef steak restaurant in India.

I am the Minister of Education replied by 798 @ Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:13:01 +0800

798 — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:13:01 +0800

Originally posted by ORIGAMIST:

You had question the credibility of this " walkover" minister... my answer to you is he got a stack of papers that tell you that he is qualified and who is there to question them ?

well... the reason for this walkover minister is either he is an elite or he has some sort of relationship wif high authorities.

I am the Minister of Education replied by 798 @ Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:10:32 +0800

798 — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:10:32 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

Degree do makes a difference.

My sis, on her way to 2nd upper degree, having an excellent uni CCA record, did not get through an interview.

A friend of mine, on her way to 1st class degree of CAP > 4.8 (over 5), having no CCA record at all, got through the same interview to the 2nd round.

But I understand what you mean, study well doesn't mean will work well. But supposed the work is the same, and the pay not much of a difference, the one with a better degree will usually get a higher chance for promotion.

That said, a degree is useful only if you are to become an employee.

u r using selective perception from wat u seen from few pple u seen.

i also have a prc friend who studied from nus. he graduated last year if a third class degree. now he is earning $4.1K working in a bank. comparing to some of his friends who have second upper working as engineer who take wif mere $2.5K.

one of my classmates who is a singaporean who obtained first class degree. he went for DSTA interview n got himself rejected. one of reason might be employers may not necessary want to pay someone wif high pays.

I am the Minister of Education replied by genie99 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:28:25 +0800

genie99 — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:28:25 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

Actually they do...they use consultants to gather intelligence on how much employers/businesses will take if they raise taxes or impose a minimum wage. The experience of Europe has shown that if you have a minimum wage, that will automatically become the maximum wage a new employee can expect. To make sure workers have decent wages, you will have to raise the minimum wage to a decent level. But that will mean higher costs for employers, who will have to pay the minimum wage to foreign workers as well.

The UK minimum wage is 5.52GBP per hour or S$15.50. If you hire a waiter to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 4 weeks, the bill comes up to S$2480.
But can the restaurant afford to pay this to its lowest-paid waiters? All the
The luxury restaurants like Les Amis will not have a big problem....your dinner bill may go up from $600 to $650 for two....not a big problem. But the coffee shop owner may have to close shop, because with his clients he cannot afford to pay 2.4k for a coffee shop assistant.

The minimum wage in fellow industrialized nation South Korea is 30,160 won or S$46 per day. The waiter who works 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month will now cost only S$920. The employer is happy, because he now can reduce the salaries of all his workers to just $920 a month, because that is perfectly legal. It's good for business, but is it good for Singaporean workers?

Yes it's a paradox ...... which is why i think the high income bracket should have higher tax than its current tax rate whatever that is, and have a realistic minimum wage law.... meybe not as high as UK like you pointed out we don't want the employers running away too.

There should also be a one-off tax for buying properties unless yer a first home buyer..... and that cash be channeled to provide a better standard of living to the low income earners. Tax rebate..... like if you are working and earn below "X" amt for that year you get rebate of "Y" amt.

I do see both sides of the coin as you pointed out ... i dunno what will be best for SG im no shooting star like them scholars....but i do now that the current living standard of the low income earners is TOO low

I am the Minister of Education replied by oxford mushroom @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:02:20 +0800

oxford mushroom — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:02:20 +0800

double post

I am the Minister of Education replied by oxford mushroom @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:01:31 +0800

oxford mushroom — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:01:31 +0800

Actually they do...they use consultants to gather intelligence on how much employers/businesses will take if they raise taxes or impose a minimum wage. The experience of Europe has shown that if you have a minimum wage, that will automatically become the maximum wage a new employee can expect. To make sure workers have decent wages, you will have to raise the minimum wage to a decent level. But that will mean higher costs for employers, who will have to pay the minimum wage to foreign workers as well.

The UK minimum wage is 5.52GBP per hour or S$15.50. If you hire a waiter to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 4 weeks, the bill comes up to S$2480. Pretty decent, you might say. But can the restaurant afford to pay this to its lowest-paid waiters? All the PRC workers will flock to Singapore and there will not be a shortage of waiters. Instead, the restaurant owners will either increase your bill or pack up and set up shop in JB or Hong Kong. Since Hong Kong, our closest competitor, does not have a minimum wage, we will lose out in competitiveness. The luxury restaurants like Les Amis will not have a big problem....your dinner bill may go up from $600 to $650 for two....not a big problem. But the coffee shop owner may have to close shop, because with his clients he cannot afford to pay 2.4k for a coffee shop assistant.

But maybe the UK rates are too high. Let's use rates in Asia then. The minimum wage in fellow industrialized nation South Korea is 30,160 won or S$46 per day. The waiter who works 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month will now cost only S$920. The employer is happy, because he now can reduce the salaries of all his workers to just $920 a month, because that is perfectly legal. It's good for business, but is it good for Singaporean workers?

I am the Minister of Education replied by genie99 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:15:02 +0800

genie99 — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:15:02 +0800

Originally posted by genie99:

I'll agree with you again..... its really up to SGs

Come to think of it ... why can't they introduce a minimum wage system? or some kind of labour law....? They can always poll the population to find out if they are interested

I am the Minister of Education replied by genie99 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:13:03 +0800

genie99 — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:13:03 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

No government can act against the wishes of the majority....that's the basis of democracy. Singaporeans are prepared to pay 3k for an LV bag but will not pay $30 more for the school bus driver. They will be happy to spend 1k on a hairdo by David Gan but will not want to pay more than $300 for their maids or give them a day off a week. It's got to do with the public's perception of one's worth...

Should the government force patients to pay more at the polyclinics so that the nurses and health attendants can get paid better? Since locals cannot compete with foreigners on price, should we ban all foreign maids so the old aunties can get paid $30 an hour to clean your flat or mind your children? Should they send back all our Chinese and Filipino nurses and charge our patients $12 consultation fees at the polyclinics instead of $8?

[b]It's not so easy, you see. You have to convince Singaporeans first..[/b]

I'll agree with you again..... its really up to SGs

Ok lets do a poll.......

a) Tax the higher earning income brackets abit more to allow a minimum wage system

or

b) current state of things yer in

I am the Minister of Education replied by oxford mushroom @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:52:56 +0800

oxford mushroom — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:52:56 +0800

Originally posted by genie99:

I agree with you bro.... and that's where i think the govt should step in..... meybe minimum wage laws won't work as well in sg's climate but they should bloody hell step in

No government can act against the wishes of the majority....that's the basis of democracy. Singaporeans are prepared to pay 3k for an LV bag but will not pay $30 more for the school bus driver. They will be happy to spend 1k on a hairdo by David Gan but will not want to pay more than $300 for their maids or give them a day off a week. It's got to do with the public's perception of one's worth...

Should the government force patients to pay more at the polyclinics so that the nurses and health attendants can get paid better? Since locals cannot compete with foreigners on price, should we ban all foreign maids so the old aunties can get paid $30 an hour to clean your flat or mind your children? Should they send back all our Chinese and Filipino nurses and charge our patients $12 consultation fees at the polyclinics instead of $8?

It's not so easy, you see. You have to convince Singaporeans first..

I am the Minister of Education replied by genie99 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:37:24 +0800

genie99 — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:37:24 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

There's your answer....

People in UK expect to pay 120GBP or S$360 minimum to call in a plumber to look at the leaking pipes. You pay well, there will be more people applying to be plumbers. But Singaporeans expect the maid to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for $300 a month.

I agree with you bro.... and that's where i think the govt should step in..... meybe minimum wage laws won't work as well in sg's climate but they should bloody hell step in

I am the Minister of Education replied by oxford mushroom @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:12:27 +0800

oxford mushroom — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:12:27 +0800

Originally posted by genie99:

I'm in melbourne right now.... and paying more than that.... and have a better life in my opinion

Peace dude.... we argue about content bro

There's your answer....

People in UK expect to pay 120GBP or S$360 minimum to call in a plumber to look at the leaking pipes. You pay well, there will be more people applying to be plumbers. But Singaporeans expect the maid to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for $300 a month.

I am the Minister of Education replied by polarsnake @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:55:18 +0800

polarsnake — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:55:18 +0800

Originally posted by mhcampboy:

Where got count like that....

74-75 =1 year

75-76 = 1year

76-77= 1year

total = 3 years...

Then how you explain the A levels?

Aiyoh, how you calculate de...

Year 1974 - Sec 1
Year 1975 - Sec 2
Year 1976 - Sec 3
Year 1977 - Sec 4

So basically, from the starting of year 1974 to the end of year 1977 he was in secondary school.

Likewise for his A Levels,

Year 1978 - JC1
Year 1979 - JC2

My resume also states I was in JC from year 2005-2006 mah, you don't consider it as one year right?

I am the Minister of Education replied by Demonight @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:44:34 +0800

Demonight — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:44:34 +0800

He looks like a dick…and people who look like dicks tend to stay true to expectations

I am the Minister of Education replied by genie99 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:41:40 +0800

genie99 — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:41:40 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

Are you prepared to pay more for your plumber? Are you prepared to pay $75 to call out an electrician, another $100 for the 30mins he took to do some wiring and $30 more for the materials? Are you prepared to pay higher medical fees to employ the health attendant in the polyclinics?

Then answer your own question...

I'm in melbourne right now.... and paying more than that.... and have a better life in my opinion

Peace dude.... we argue about content bro

I am the Minister of Education replied by oxford mushroom @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:29:25 +0800

oxford mushroom — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:29:25 +0800

Originally posted by genie99:
Most peoples mindset are that blue collar jobs don't earn enough for a good lifestyle(not extravaganti mean good). I believe if their earning power was raised more of our youth would hesitate with their mad scramble to be a professional and actually give thought to what they [b]LIKE and enjoy doing. Why isn't this happening? ...... beats me..... and i put that responsibility on the govt.... or meybe i should not? Shed some light here pls someone id like to hear opinions on this[/b]

Are you prepared to pay more for your plumber? Are you prepared to pay $75 to call out an electrician, another $100 for the 30mins he took to do some wiring and $30 more for the materials? Are you prepared to pay higher medical fees to employ the health attendant in the polyclinics?

Then answer your own question...

I am the Minister of Education replied by phil30k @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 02:41:20 +0800

phil30k — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 02:41:20 +0800

Dear anonymouscoward:

I've only started reading newspapers recently. So I was not aware. Thank you for bringing those examples to my attention.

Edited to remove quotes

I am the Minister of Education replied by sir_peanuts @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:42:00 +0800

sir_peanuts — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:42:00 +0800

he is behaving like the minister of education alr… why must it be him.

I am the Minister of Education replied by eagle @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:32:39 +0800

eagle — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:32:39 +0800

Originally posted by 798:

actually even if u r a first class degree holder, there's no guarantee u will be getting a desired pay.

i see alot of uni students talk until got dragon got tiger here just becos they getting good grade, wait til they start work.

Degree do makes a difference.

My sis, on her way to 2nd upper degree, having an excellent uni CCA record, did not get through an interview.

A friend of mine, on her way to 1st class degree of CAP > 4.8 (over 5), having no CCA record at all, got through the same interview to the 2nd round.

But I understand what you mean, study well doesn't mean will work well. But supposed the work is the same, and the pay not much of a difference, the one with a better degree will usually get a higher chance for promotion.

That said, a degree is useful only if you are to become an employee.

I am the Minister of Education replied by anonymouscoward @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:17:20 +0800

anonymouscoward — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:17:20 +0800

Originally posted by phil30k:

As I've posted before.

If the minister of education is willing to vouch for that principal. I'll accept his explanations of the events.

However if there is a recurrence. I think he should be removed from his position together with the offender.

That should build up his resilience and teach him a valuable life lesson not to put his reputation on the line without first putting some thought into it.

Did Khaw resign after he stake his reputation on Durai?

Did Wee resign after he gave his full support to his daughter's elitist remarks?

Did Lim resign after he said cost of living WILL NOT increase after GST increment?

Did anyone from iDA resign after a $388 million "honest mistake"?

Did Yeo resign after making a mistake and then making a u-turn.. oops rethink?

Did Ho Ching resign after losing billions of dollars in various "unfortunate" investments?

So.. tell me... do you think Lui will resign even if the principle walks up to one of the girls, slap her and tell her to wake up her f*** idea and not jeopardize her promotion/bonus?

DING! DING! DING!.. no prize for answering "no".

I am the Minister of Education replied by reddressman @ Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:16:30 +0800

reddressman — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:16:30 +0800

all i wanna say is :

TS, your ballah is bigger than mine.

I am the Minister of Education replied by phil30k @ Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:08:37 +0800

phil30k — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:08:37 +0800

As I've posted before.

If the minister of education is willing to vouch for that principal. I'll accept his explanations of the events.

However if there is a recurrence. I think he should be removed from his position together with the offender.

That should build up his resilience and teach him a valuable life lesson not to put his reputation on the line without first putting some thought into it.

I am the Minister of Education replied by linchiling @ Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:38:15 +0800

linchiling — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:38:15 +0800

Another point to note in case some haven't notice.

What's the worse that could happen if the gals can't make it to Poly after getting their O level results? They can still go ITE then..

It's pretty obvious the rationale behind the principal's intention of "advising" them to seek direct transfers, instead of encouraging them to give Polytechnics a shot.

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