TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by Genie99a @ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:23:14 +0800

Genie99a — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:23:14 +0800

I've just posted my reply on the online citizen as well.

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by Genie99a @ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:02:34 +0800

Genie99a — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:02:34 +0800

Deleted cause im taking a holiday to SG ....

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by Genie99a @ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:01:20 +0800

Genie99a — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:01:20 +0800

Originally posted by GohBockSeng:

Dear Robert Teh,

There is nothing wrong with having PAP members on the TOC team. Their mature and responsible views add credibility to TOC and allow it to be differentiated from the plethora of anti-establishment blogs that criticize the government most of the time.

You have no right to question who TOC picks on its editorial board, as you are merely an outsider who, unlike TOC, has no interest in cooperating with the establishment or representing the mainstream views espoused by traditional media. You cannot therefore blame TOC for censoring your posts or putting you under extended moderation as you clearly do not know which side of your bread is buttered, unlike TOC.

It is TOC's choice if they wish to have PAP members on the TOC team. But to be fair it should be made known to their forumners. Whether the PAP members contribute responsibly and add credibility to TOC is insubstantial. This goes for Opposition members as well.

When I visit a forum I expect it to try to be a neutral body. It is difficult for a commoner such as myself to have faith that the forum is trying to do that if political members are admitted into the editorial body. It is insubstantial if TOC claims that and i quote you "TOC, has no interest in cooperating with the establishment or representing the mainstream views espoused by traditional media", that faith is lost amongst some of us. It is similar to having friends that are all criminals, few will have faith that I am not one myself. The fact I am not one is insubstantial as faith is lost amongst the public. This is a fact in life be it right or wrong. The question is why does TOC choose to go against the public faith?

To quote you on "The PAP government (may the PAP progress!) does not need TOC to advance its agenda or promote its policies. They already have the mainstream media as well as various discussion groups and committees to do that for them." The PAP government does not need TOC but i believe it stands to gain if TOC was there to advance its agenda. That is reason enuf for the common public's faith in TOC as a neutral body to waiver. And as fer false accusations and questions.... that is a bi-product. If TOC is distressed about the accusations then don't do it? Same goes for a celebrity.... if you can't take the stress of the papparazi... don't be a celebrity

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by robertteh @ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:46:26 +0800

robertteh — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:46:26 +0800

Mr. Goh Bock Seng,

You are right. TOC has its right to publish as it likes being more independent with the joining of youngpap members like Ephraim Loy and Remy Choo.

It is good to see TOC growing from strength to strength with such youngpap input.

Good luck!

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by GohBockSeng @ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:35:02 +0800

GohBockSeng — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:35:02 +0800

Dear Robert Teh,

There is nothing wrong with having PAP members on the TOC team. Their mature and responsible views add credibility to TOC and allow it to be differentiated from the plethora of anti-establishment blogs that criticize the government most of the time.

You have no right to question who TOC picks on its editorial board, as you are merely an outsider who, unlike TOC, has no interest in cooperating with the establishment or representing the mainstream views espoused by traditional media. You cannot therefore blame TOC for censoring your posts or putting you under extended moderation as you clearly do not know which side of your bread is buttered, unlike TOC.

For you to insinuate that is TOC trying to open itself to surreptitious control by the PAP is an insult to TOC as they are perfectly capable of supporting the PAP without anyone telling them to do so.

The PAP government (may the PAP progress!) does not need TOC to advance its agenda or promote its policies. They already have the mainstream media as well as various discussion groups and committees to do that for them. On the other hand, TOC has engendered lively debate about current issues and government policies, and in so doing, created even greater awareness, even if sometimes their arguments and line of reasoning leave much to be desired. Sadly, even TOC sometimes falls into the trap of being anti-establishment for its own sake, as if merely to impress the masses. Readers should therefore read TOC not only with an open mind, but with a critical mind as well.

What is needed is for people like you to debate with TOC constructively and challenge them on the facts when they get their line of thought wrong, when they fail to see the forest for the trees, and when they pander to the masses for the sake of Realpolitik. To cast unnecessary aspersions on others like what you are doing now is wasteful and you aren't hitting them where it truly matters.

Goh Bock Seng

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by Trump_Card @ Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:24:11 +0800

Trump_Card — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:24:11 +0800

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by Trump_Card @ Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:13:51 +0800

Trump_Card — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:13:51 +0800

Originally posted by GPSg:

Haha.. the REAL PAP dogs are exposed. And it is none other than the owners of the wayang party stupid blog. See this from Singabloodypore:

http://singabloodypore.rsfblog.org/archive/2008/02/04/singapore-s-shame.html

The PAP's Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad led by Ng Eng Yen and Baey Yam Keng has fast become a pest, not just a nuisance to the cyber community. Judging from the strong reactions given to the recent events involving theonlinecitizen.com (TOC), the whole effort of the PAP's Counter-Insurgents Squad has back-fired on them very badly.

The Wayang King, so self-named as wayangkingsg at the Sammyboy.com's Alfresco Coffee Shop (SBF), is at the centre of storm involving TOC. For those who have dealt with him before, he comes across as a member of the PAP's Counter-Insurgents Squad, operating out of the National Health Group. He has assumed a variety of online anonymous identities at SBF, such as thinknothing, thinkpeople, Mihailov75, mehailov75, samster005, samstor005, razari, kevansg, Firdaus77, jacy_, jacys_, PM0nkeyWP, aIz2by, 0nePerson, Yishun81, exist17, PM0NKEY10, Delphilian, delphiloon, thinkdelphi, Ahkong_, andrewshit, zhengxiTOC, norfirdaus, Sarrkozy, Mohd_Hakim, titusbamble, geraldTOC, sarak_home, NoorFirdaus, Ahmed_Yusof, mohdimran, samster55, spartacus436, porkchop59, bullshitGMS, MSVista, nvista, Mohdfarhan, daqigui, mohdjunid, mohdjames, MemberName05, porkchop611, aboutdelphi, delphifcuk, AndrewofWP, Andrew69sg, sockmonkeysg, wayanguru, checkentry, wayangclub, GH2788why, monkeylohhp, deankohh, createnew, callcab111, Goldenparrot, createpoll, madcow2788, COE75, PussyJUDGE, PDonkey10, namqiong5984, remychooo, AndrewLoh985, wayangkingsg, wayangclubsg, MaryKwan, etc., most of them have been banned.

For the regular forummers of SBF, they would remember that this Wayang King has been notorious in impersonating other opposition parties' figures, such as Perry Tong, Low Thia Khiang, and Sebastian Teo at SBF, causing a stir in the local newspapers in Singapore. When he was caught red-handed for impersonating Perry Tong, he cunningly assumed another identity in the name of Bernard Soh (using a login name hongrui1982) to post a letter of apology.

With a history like this, it is not difficult to digest the recent events and who is behind them.

From all the evidences available, it is without a shadow of doubt that this Wayang King signed off as Jasper to post the first message on 05/02/2008 at singabloodypore (singabloodypore.rsfblog.org):
http://singabloodypore.rsfblog.org/archive/2008/02/04/singapore-s-shame.html

He was caught subsequently by soci to impersonate Andrew Loh to post a message on 06/02/2008 challenging Jasper at singabloodypore.rsfblog.org:
http://singabloodypore.rsfblog.org/archive/2008/02/12/baseless-malicious-hogwash-no-more.html

So the netizens have been taken a free ride by the Wayang King without knowing that they have been watching a wayang show conducted by wayangparty (wayangparty.wordpress.com).

With this in mind, there is a possibility that the second Jasper is also a clone of wayangparty used to further discredit TOC by posting a message on 07/02/2008 at singabloodypore.

It becomes clear that why an anonymous Jasper would bother to set up a blog (jasperwee.wordpress.com) for the sole purpose of attacking TOC if he is not a member of the PAP's Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad.

Once we know that Jasper and wayangparty are the same person belonging to the PAP's Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad, his malicious act of disinformation and attacks on TOC and Workers' Party can be easily seen!

What the Wayang King did not expect is that his whole self-conducted wayang show has back-fired on the PAP's Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad very badly and discredited himself completely!

In other words , SDP is being depicted as the culprit ... Everyone was pointing fingers at SDP back then

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by GPSg @ Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:05:34 +0800

GPSg — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:05:34 +0800

Haha.. the REAL PAP dogs are exposed. And it is none other than the owners of the wayang party stupid blog. See this from Singabloodypore:

http://singabloodypore.rsfblog.org/archive/2008/02/04/singapore-s-shame.html

The PAP's Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad led by Ng Eng Yen and Baey Yam Keng has fast become a pest, not just a nuisance to the cyber community. Judging from the strong reactions given to the recent events involving theonlinecitizen.com (TOC), the whole effort of the PAP's Counter-Insurgents Squad has back-fired on them very badly.

The Wayang King, so self-named as wayangkingsg at the Sammyboy.com's Alfresco Coffee Shop (SBF), is at the centre of storm involving TOC. For those who have dealt with him before, he comes across as a member of the PAP's Counter-Insurgents Squad, operating out of the National Health Group. He has assumed a variety of online anonymous identities at SBF, such as thinknothing, thinkpeople, Mihailov75, mehailov75, samster005, samstor005, razari, kevansg, Firdaus77, jacy_, jacys_, PM0nkeyWP, aIz2by, 0nePerson, Yishun81, exist17, PM0NKEY10, Delphilian, delphiloon, thinkdelphi, Ahkong_, andrewshit, zhengxiTOC, norfirdaus, Sarrkozy, Mohd_Hakim, titusbamble, geraldTOC, sarak_home, NoorFirdaus, Ahmed_Yusof, mohdimran, samster55, spartacus436, porkchop59, bullshitGMS, MSVista, nvista, Mohdfarhan, daqigui, mohdjunid, mohdjames, MemberName05, porkchop611, aboutdelphi, delphifcuk, AndrewofWP, Andrew69sg, sockmonkeysg, wayanguru, checkentry, wayangclub, GH2788why, monkeylohhp, deankohh, createnew, callcab111, Goldenparrot, createpoll, madcow2788, COE75, PussyJUDGE, PDonkey10, namqiong5984, remychooo, AndrewLoh985, wayangkingsg, wayangclubsg, MaryKwan, etc., most of them have been banned.

For the regular forummers of SBF, they would remember that this Wayang King has been notorious in impersonating other opposition parties' figures, such as Perry Tong, Low Thia Khiang, and Sebastian Teo at SBF, causing a stir in the local newspapers in Singapore. When he was caught red-handed for impersonating Perry Tong, he cunningly assumed another identity in the name of Bernard Soh (using a login name hongrui1982) to post a letter of apology.

With a history like this, it is not difficult to digest the recent events and who is behind them.

From all the evidences available, it is without a shadow of doubt that this Wayang King signed off as Jasper to post the first message on 05/02/2008 at singabloodypore (singabloodypore.rsfblog.org):
http://singabloodypore.rsfblog.org/archive/2008/02/04/singapore-s-shame.html

He was caught subsequently by soci to impersonate Andrew Loh to post a message on 06/02/2008 challenging Jasper at singabloodypore.rsfblog.org:
http://singabloodypore.rsfblog.org/archive/2008/02/12/baseless-malicious-hogwash-no-more.html

So the netizens have been taken a free ride by the Wayang King without knowing that they have been watching a wayang show conducted by wayangparty (wayangparty.wordpress.com).

With this in mind, there is a possibility that the second Jasper is also a clone of wayangparty used to further discredit TOC by posting a message on 07/02/2008 at singabloodypore.

It becomes clear that why an anonymous Jasper would bother to set up a blog (jasperwee.wordpress.com) for the sole purpose of attacking TOC if he is not a member of the PAP's Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad.

Once we know that Jasper and wayangparty are the same person belonging to the PAP's Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad, his malicious act of disinformation and attacks on TOC and Workers' Party can be easily seen!

What the Wayang King did not expect is that his whole self-conducted wayang show has back-fired on the PAP's Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad very badly and discredited himself completely!

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by robertteh @ Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:33:08 +0800

robertteh — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:33:08 +0800

Shutourmouth,

We the citizens do spend time here to give our two cents' worth on many issues and problems. The most important achievement is we could communicate and know one another and mature as a society with progressive views and directions.

Sgforums, FindSingapore.net, Sammyboy, are all sites we can post in to air our views and stay cohesive as a community. If onlinecitizens has been taken over by the government, there will be no hope for us to communicate there as we cannot really make the difference for we know we simply cannot change the government's arrogance and indifference judging from past experiences.

We should find out whether it is true government intends to control the internet. May be the fact lies somewhere in between. It is impossible or impractical for government to control the internet because it is too big and too diverse.

If government wants to talk or communicate with us and is prepared to come down from its high horse and make some changes to suit us through better communications of needs and views of new generation, it will serve us.

Life is not as straightforward. We need to be positive about our goals and grow with the time and define our goals and do something as we criticize and chastise the government for its many past errors.

I intend to communicate with onlinecitizens to get the facts. Whether it is true or not government intends to control the nets we will eventually know.

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by shudyourmouth @ Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:00:43 +0800

shudyourmouth — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:00:43 +0800

Agree with you Robert.

There is really no good excuse that can be used to save them.

Credibility down the toilet bowl *flush

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by Genie99a @ Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:18:40 +0800

Genie99a — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:18:40 +0800

thanks for bringing this to my attention .... Online Citizens ... i'll make it a point to NEVER go there.

i would prefer an independent forum anyday

After reading the articles.... my point of view... i don't trust them

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by robertteh @ Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:55:30 +0800

robertteh — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:55:30 +0800

Mr. Goh Bock Seng,

If Onlinecitizens indeed aspires to be an objective website devoted to serving as an independent or more moderate platform of communications on policies of government to solve problems complained of by many citizens, no one will fault such a web site.

I personally will serve such a website and will contribute my fair shares of views and opinions with positive thinking and moderation.

But at a look at what has happened to this website over the past 12 months or so.

Thinking that it would be such an independent and objective website, I posted there some months back but soon found out that there was a proposal to invite youngpap members like Ephraim to its editorial team.

I objected to such a move and posted several views on this matter. Since then, I was subjected to many of my posts regularly put on "hold" or "subject to approval" or blocked as seen happening in CNA.

Anybody with some common sense unaffiliated to youngpap or government who are willing to contribute to such a site will be able to see that it is a scam trying to look like independent but in fact it is controlled surreptitiously by the ruling party which being the partitioned party to such policies it will be discussing simply has no business to be on its editorial team.

Since then it appears more and more obvious that it has become a site controlled by PAP with some pretentious presence of some WP members which were there just for justifications or show and nothing else.

Can such a site really be independent or objective.

I am sure it was a wrong move for Onlinecitizens to try to open itself to such surreptitious control by PAP or youngpap or the establishment which on the face seems independent but below the surface is far from so.

How could we expect such a site no matter how you try to talk about its independent views to rally thinking citizens to contribute to its deliberations.

Events since then have further shown that onlinecitizens has become even more connected to the ruling party than was originally thought.

Let citizens judge for themselves whether such a website can serve the interest of the citizens in the particular context of a nation where the government has taken complete control of all its printed and telecast media.

Your defence of this website in the light of what has happened does not hold much credibility.

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by Singa Crew @ Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:10:31 +0800

Singa Crew — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:10:31 +0800

Mr Goh Bock Seng said:

"The PAP government (may the PAP progress!) has created a social environment that fosters intelligent questioning and debate of social and political issues, and encourages Singaporeans to play an active role in shaping the future of our society."

And my reply is:

http://www.singaporedemocrat.org/articlewarwick.html

"One professor at the NUS had complained that his head of department had censored his reading list for his students because some of the material had sought to discussion liberalism."

"More recently a team of economists had said that a majority of jobs in Singapore were going to foreigners. Again the Government made threatening counterattacks and again the academics were forced to withdraw their claims."

"Another group of lecturers, this time with one of the polytechnics, had made a film about J B Jeyaretnam and submitted the documentary to the Singapore International Film Festival. The Government threatened the lecturers that it would prosecute them unless they withdrew the film, raided the producers’ department and confiscated their equipment."

AND...

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/39f13dfc-3c9b-11da-83c8-00000e2511c8.html

"Senior lecturers at Warwick University in the UK have voted against setting up a branch campus in Singapore due to worries about limits on academic freedom, dealing a possible setback to the city-state's ambitions to become a regional hub for higher education."

"the government will intervene if academic reports cast a negative light on their policies"

So there you go. Readers can judge for themselves if the PAP government has created a "social environment that fosters intelligent questioning and debate of social and political issues."

Crew

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by GohBockSeng @ Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:24:32 +0800

GohBockSeng — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:24:32 +0800

Recently, there have been many allegations made against the editors of the popular web portal, the Online Citizen (TOC): http://theonlinecitizen.com/

The TOC editors have been accused of being either funded by the PAP, or at the very least, closely associated with the PAP. In addition, TOC is alleged to have threatened legal action on at least one blogger. Just a couple of days back, TOC wrote a lengthy blog post fervently denying these allegations. Many readers also weighed in on the subject and expressed their support for TOC.

I too would like to express my support for the Online Citizen. TOC provides a wide diversity of views and opinions on what is happening in Singapore, some pro-establishment, and some anti-establishment. This curious blend of neutral reporting and the ability to look at each issue from many sides without ever taking an unwavering stand is seldom found in cyberspace.

Although the PAP is confident that its policies are sound, will benefit Singaporeans over the long run, and will definitely stand the test of time, the PAP also recognizes that people must be free to air their views, provided that they do so responsibly and moderately. TOC is one good example of responsible and moderate reporting that the PAP would certainly approve of.

Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew (praise and blessings be upon him!) and the Old Guard singlehandedly brought Singapore from 3rd World to 1st, and built a nation of peace and prosperity, security, racial and religious harmony, and social progress. It is entirely due to their incredible dedication, hard work, and monumental sacrifices that Singaporeans today have a nation that they can be very proud to call their home. We and our families owe a lifelong debt of honest gratitude to these courageous men and women who put their lives on the line to build a modern and prosperous Singapore.

The PAP government (may the PAP progress!) has created a social environment that fosters intelligent questioning and debate of social and political issues, and encourages Singaporeans to play an active role in shaping the future of our society. It is out of this vibrant and thriving culture created by the PAP that TOC was born. TOC's articles are balanced and well-written, and always based on the facts, although there have been many occasion when those facts presented were incomplete and did not portray an accurate picture of reality.

Although many TOC articles are critical of PAP policies, their arguments are presented in way that is thoughtful and measured, even if those arguments are often flawed.

Indeed, the PAP does not expect that everyone will agree with all its policies. Not everyone has access to all the facts and information, and certainly TOC does not. As time goes by however, the PAP hopes that eventually most Singaporeans will come to see the wisdom and strength of its policies.

In the meanwhile, TOC still plays an excellent role by offering an alternative platform and alternative set of views that encourages mature debate and logical thinking. That is what the PAP would like to see as well, as these qualities of logical thinking and mature debate will eventually lead people to see the goodness of its policies, and lead them back to the PAP.

All in all, TOC plays a vital role in shaping the kind of society the PAP would like. Let us thus put aside our petty differences and squabbles, and focus on the greater tasks ahead. Let us join in the Great and Noble Cause of Nation Building. Together with the PAP, we can reach for the Pot Of Gold!

Majulah PAP! Majulah Singapura!

Goh Bock Seng

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by shudyourmouth @ Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:06:19 +0800

shudyourmouth — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:06:19 +0800

Originally posted by thinkpeople:

The Wayang Party Club has sent 8 questions to Choo Zheng Xi and still awaiting a reply from him:

http://wayangparty.wordpress.com/2008/02/10/8-questions-for-the-online-citizens-remy-choo/

Qn4 Do you know any PAP MPs personally?

I think you need to be more specific here. Should ask something like "have you ever received money from an MP in exchange for your services?"

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by thinkpeople @ Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:27:11 +0800

thinkpeople — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:27:11 +0800

The Wayang Party Club has sent 8 questions to Choo Zheng Xi and still awaiting a reply from him:

http://wayangparty.wordpress.com/2008/02/10/8-questions-for-the-online-citizens-remy-choo/

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by pearlie27 @ Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:49:29 +0800

pearlie27 — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:49:29 +0800

i wouldn’t be surprised if the PAP wants to infiltrate TOC for it is a very popular blog. But i wouldn’t be too sure if Choo is really being paid.

TOC's Choo Zheng Xi Paid by PAP MP! replied by shudyourmouth @ Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:46:30 +0800

shudyourmouth — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:46:30 +0800

Juicy stuff occurring this CNY, more juicy than my my lousy mandarin oranges.

Choo Zheng XI of the online citizen is receiving pocket money from a mysterious MP in the west

I guess the MP is either from Holland or West Coast GRC because Choo is in YEC of Buena Vista.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammyboymod/mess…
http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammyboymod/mess…
http://singabloodypore.rsfblog.org/archive/2008…

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