another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by balance_else_complacent @ Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:00:44 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:00:44 +0800

Originally posted by kramnave:

If its in a mature industry and Singaporeans want those jobs and don't get it, there is a serious problem. Else i don't see anything wrong with having FTs.

First you have to prove what is a real Talent.

what is a talent? is just being an accountant a Talent?

or how about simply calling most of them workers?

If they are Allowed to come in and take a job, what is there to stop them?

While I do not blame them, I think this issue is not so simple. We have to be more transparent how many are coming in.

To illustrate, an hypothetical example:

type of job : accountant.

number of vacant jobs for accountant : 100.

number of qualified local accountants seeking jobs: 70. so in this case does it mean the pore has 70 talents? --> think about my question of what is a real talent again. just someone with the cert of accountant? have some years of experience?

How much is known about our so many contract FTs who come in an out so many in a short period of time. How do the hiring people know that at the time of hiring, that is a real Talent? come on , our locals having the same qualification have their jobs at stake. based on salary, how can the company know they have hired a cheaper but more talented, same qualification talent? I challenge anyone to prove to me they know what they talking about when they conveniently use the word 'talent'. people's jobs and ricebowls are at stake!

if the number of foreign accountants that firms are allowed to hire is 100, who can ensure that the 70 qualified accountants will not lose out?

what happened to the jobs of our local accountant talents? they too are talents, based on the convenient definition, right?

Firms, they come from private sector too.

Firms, they can usually be MNCs too.

If left to them to hire, anything they like goes.

In large companies i been to, for departments of the same skillsets, a great strong majority of them are FTs. Why ? accounting skill = talent?

commonly, cost is the prime consideration when qualifications are the same for local and foreign candidates. unfortunately for locals, their cost of living is very high and getting higher. they have no choice. On top of that, there is the compulsory CPF. and do you favor the mnc's or help the locals? is it business or national's welfare? why 1000 locals drop their pink ic each year, as reported? in times of crisis, who will be there to sacrifice : locals or ft?

the above is the kind of transparency we need to demand.

the above is what we need to focus on.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by kramnave @ Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:46:53 +0800

kramnave — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:46:53 +0800

If its in a mature industry and Singaporeans want those jobs and don't get it, there is a serious problem. Else i don't see anything wrong with having FTs.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by eagle @ Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:44:20 +0800

eagle — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:44:20 +0800

Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:

i never blame FTs.

They Are allowed to come here and take a job.

Although I do support FT policy to a certain extent, I have to say I like your this point of view very much. Quite a number of pple complain and blame FTs though.

Interesting!

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by balance_else_complacent @ Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:29:27 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:29:27 +0800

i never blame FTs.

They Are allowed to come here and take a job.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by eagle @ Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:11:12 +0800

eagle — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:11:12 +0800

They learned from the army. Army can jump rank go OCS straightaway become officer liao, higher rank than the staff sergeants that worked there for so long and contributed much more.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by fishbuff @ Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:02:55 +0800

fishbuff — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:02:55 +0800

your findings are based solely around your current working environment in SG. take my workplace in oz for example, my supervisor is a Phd holder in computer science, although his intelligence is good, his EQ is terrible. He was trying all ways to win the coveted team manager role but in the end, failed to secure it. Why? his EQ which is a constant pain among us workers that had to put up with his overzealous behavoir, gave him a thumb down. team manager role went to a new employee that have good inter-personal skills.

sg is a place that ONLY grades are the sole determinating factor for a person's promotion and gauge of "competency". now u can see how a 32 years old scholar that have no experience in law enforcement and handons on crime investigration, could be placed as a police highest ranking officer in SG.

Dont blame the people, blame the system that promotes such biased employee's performance criteria to judge.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by PointofView @ Sat, 22 Mar 2008 08:25:09 +0800

PointofView — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 08:25:09 +0800

you need to prove they are incompetent.

i think you have never worked overseas.

if you have, you know its not for everyone.

I have seen schrolars come crying home say they tak bohleh tahan overseas so LL have to come home.

i have seen local talents venturing overseas and managed to successfully stay overseas and leading a greater life. true happiness.

the ability to work overseas is market value based 1st and then your EQ.

without market value, you can only exist overseas either by smuggling in or you born with a gold spoon or you have some rich people helping you.

Migration is not for the incompetent, or without market value. Its certainly not for all. Even those who qualify, may not have the EQ to survive overseas.

Thus, this proves that those who migrated are brave hearts who can adapt.

afterall, our ancestors came from overseas. What law in the universe dictates that a person born here must only live and die here?

We are free man.

to remain NEUTRAL, I must say having said above, I am a strong supporter living here locally.

like that is neutral.

I do not need to proof that they are incompetent as i was merely pointing out the different between qualified and competent is two different issues. There are too many people thinking that just because they have that piece of toilet paper make them the king and can demand anything which they want.

For your infor, i did my degree in Aust and i was involved in projects which we team up with the local firms.

Market value is based 1st no doubt, but market value is primary based on whether you have that requirement (paper) 1st, only when you start the job, will they be able to fully determine if you are competent or not.

Basically what i am trying to tell fishbuff is knowing the different between Qualified and Competent. There are just to many cases of qualified but incompetent people around in our society and most of the time they are telling people "My result in uni is top but the company pay me damn low but other people result not as good as me but get higher pay."

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by balance_else_complacent @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:12:50 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:12:50 +0800

there is this CNA documentary today on sgporeans working overseas. it was asking people who are overseas and doing well BUT also wants to come home.

How about filming those who are more successful or more happy now overseas AND never want to take back citizenship?

Will these be shown?

when a person's eyes, ears and mind keep getting a certain message, that message becomes something concrete.

generally, some feel that sgporeans deserve to be replaced as long as they are the ones who do not mind the influx.

as for me, you all know that I am as NEUTRAL as the press. I do not feel anything. I am numbed.

sgporeans deserve whatever they ask for. If only they know what that is.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by fishbuff @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:04:40 +0800

fishbuff — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:04:40 +0800

Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:

you need to prove they are incompetent.

i think you have never worked overseas.

if you have, you know its not for everyone.

I have seen schrolars come crying home say they tak bohleh tahan overseas so LL have to come home.

i have seen local talents venturing overseas and managed to successfully stay overseas and leading a greater life. true happiness.

the ability to work overseas is market value based 1st and then your EQ.

without market value, you can only exist overseas either by smuggling in or you born with a gold spoon or you have some rich people helping you.

Migration is not for the incompetent, or without market value. Its certainly not for all. Even those who qualify, may not have the EQ to survive overseas.

Thus, this proves that those who migrated are brave hearts who can adapt.

afterall, our ancestors came from overseas. What law in the universe dictates that a person born here must only live and die here?

We are free man.

to remain NEUTRAL, I must say having said above, I am a strong supporter living here locally.

like that is neutral.

probably sour grapes. i happened to see alot of non-graduates trying to talk down the worth of graduates.

but anyway, talk about emigration, unless u have sufficient push or pull factor that draw one out of singapore, people will still be contented living in sg. doesnt matter if they are kept in the dark, doesnt matter if there is no balance and check for the ruling govt and how they exploit the population for their own gain.

one of my ex-colleague is moving to sydney soon. he worked in a bank and sick tired of seeing how the foreingers' overwhelming presence in the management and professional fields. and singaporeans take a back seat in these field.

pap keep saying singaporeans are not skilled nor smart enough to fill in these role of senior managements and professions and need FTs to fill in. well, lies that are repeated often enough will seem to be true. and when singaporeans actually believe that, then probably they need to be replaced too.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by balance_else_complacent @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:19:42 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:19:42 +0800

Originally posted by PointofView:

Are those 1000 highly educated highly competence in what they do? Don't mistaken that having that piece of toilet paper mean he a talent.

Ultimately is how good you are in your profession that will result in what kind of earning power you can have. Can't expect to pay elite salary to someone that can't even perform the basic well even though they have that piece of paper right?

you need to prove they are incompetent.

i think you have never worked overseas.

if you have, you know its not for everyone.

I have seen schrolars come crying home say they tak bohleh tahan overseas so LL have to come home.

i have seen local talents venturing overseas and managed to successfully stay overseas and leading a greater life. true happiness.

the ability to work overseas is market value based 1st and then your EQ.

without market value, you can only exist overseas either by smuggling in or you born with a gold spoon or you have some rich people helping you.

Migration is not for the incompetent, or without market value. Its certainly not for all. Even those who qualify, may not have the EQ to survive overseas.

Thus, this proves that those who migrated are brave hearts who can adapt.

afterall, our ancestors came from overseas. What law in the universe dictates that a person born here must only live and die here?

We are free man.

to remain NEUTRAL, I must say having said above, I am a strong supporter living here locally.

like that is neutral.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by fishbuff @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:22:33 +0800

fishbuff — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:22:33 +0800

Originally posted by PointofView:

Qualified mean paper qualification isn't it? But that does not equip to excel in the job which they do. Ultimately it still down to are you able to make yourself indispenseable in the eye of your boss. That is where the money is.

I have come across damn too many cases where ppl with honours degree can't even understand half of the basic fundamental during their uni life, but in the eyes of society, they are qualified professional in their field.

See the diff?

sure sure. whatever float your boat.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by PointofView @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:58:56 +0800

PointofView — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:58:56 +0800

Qualified mean paper qualification isn't it? But that does not equip to excel in the job which they do. Ultimately it still down to are you able to make yourself indispenseable in the eye of your boss. That is where the money is.

I have come across damn too many cases where ppl with honours degree can't even understand half of the basic fundamental during their uni life, but in the eyes of society, they are qualified professional in their field.

See the diff?

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by fishbuff @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:23:55 +0800

fishbuff — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:23:55 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

fishbuff, welcome back!

thank u, sir! pm u.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by eagle @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:19:52 +0800

eagle — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:19:52 +0800

Originally posted by fishbuff:

it is not that hard to comprehend that the lots of qualified professionals are leaving in droves, or is the earth still flat and the sun revolves around it?

fishbuff, welcome back!

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by fishbuff @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:18:48 +0800

fishbuff — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:18:48 +0800

Originally posted by PointofView:

Are those 1000 highly educated highly competence in what they do? Don't mistaken that having that piece of toilet paper mean he a talent.

Ultimately is how good you are in your profession that will result in what kind of earning power you can have. Can't expect to pay elite salary to someone that can't even perform the basic well even though they have that piece of paper right?

it is not that hard to comprehend that the lots of qualified professionals are leaving in droves, or is the earth still flat and the sun revolves around it?

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by PointofView @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:06:21 +0800

PointofView — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:06:21 +0800

Are those 1000 highly educated highly competence in what they do? Don't mistaken that having that piece of toilet paper mean he a talent.

Ultimately is how good you are in your profession that will result in what kind of earning power you can have. Can't expect to pay elite salary to someone that can't even perform the basic well even though they have that piece of paper right?

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by balance_else_complacent @ Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:08:12 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:08:12 +0800

they say 1000 or so sgporeans abandoned its citizenship entirely, completely every year ?

can 1000 highly educated every year be wrong?

i am neutralist, so i say i not sure.

how accurate is 1000? i think as neutralist, i say very accurate lor.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by Seven_Dragon @ Sun, 09 Mar 2008 18:01:02 +0800

Seven_Dragon — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 18:01:02 +0800

s'pore = hotels

like = stay

don't like = don't stay

government = don't care for us

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by Seven_Dragon @ Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:58:49 +0800

Seven_Dragon — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:58:49 +0800

s'pore = hotels

like = stay

don't like = don't stay

government = don't care for us

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by Reddressman. @ Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:53:43 +0800

Reddressman. — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:53:43 +0800

hi folks,

am just thinking,

how many would not mind migrating so that they can have all their cpf in their hands, to see how it feels like to hold them , splash them on the bed and sleep on it?

i suspect some do but they cannot because they are not able to migrate. the capability to migrate can prevent someone from doing that. the mental ability to adapt overseas is also another. comfort zone.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by will4 @ Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:52:22 +0800

will4 — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:52:22 +0800

Originally posted by TCH05:

is that due to pull or push factor?

I can say that stress of living in this country is pushing local to migrate to other countries.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by TCH05 @ Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:17:23 +0800

TCH05 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:17:23 +0800

Originally posted by Ed11790:

im already overseas in u.s.lol
america not such a good place now…....kinda

which part of US?

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by Ed11790 @ Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:13:20 +0800

Ed11790 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:13:20 +0800

im already overseas in u.s.lol
america not such a good place now…....kinda

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by fishbuff @ Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:53:32 +0800

fishbuff — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:53:32 +0800

Originally posted by Ed11790:

sg is not a very happy i guess…......thats why people leave?

famous US navy slogan; "join the navy and see the world".

dont u want to give a shot overseas and see how it will turn out for u?

in melbourne, there are huge number of malaysians there and they are not economic refugees, most are well off and educated. but why? they want to live in a better environment that has no bumiputra to marginalize them.

another singapore throw in his citizenship replied by Ed11790 @ Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:25:19 +0800

Ed11790 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:25:19 +0800

sg is not a very happy i guess…......thats why people leave?

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