http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 en-US 60 <p>Heard there're many disgruntled ex-civil servants and pensioners, who are getting monthly allowances,&nbsp;not like MOST citizens who dig into own CPF for survival... These disgruntled people know the system and are now crying like babies at their ex-bosses cuz not enough pocket money.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Well, its all hearsay I admit lah.. I got no examples, I don't dare to name names, I know 'somehow' got elite club 'somewhere'... I got no guts to SAY IT TO THE WORLD....wait i kena deported to North Pole...I got no one to hear me&nbsp;cry cry cry...some forummers here......seem to&nbsp;promote hearsay too...throw MP letter at CPF-type forummers...hmm...</p> Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:17:57 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7951485 powis123 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>To: MP Charles Chong</p> <p>I have actually written this same email to nearly all MPs because I feel that the matter raised concerns all of us as citizens and MPs should be conscientious to look into all or any such issues and problems and do something to correct them in parliament<br /> <br /> The problems I have raised concern the many policies put up by the government like "anti-welfarism", "meritocracy". "rule of law" etc as listed in my email which have been wrongfully implemented only to benefit certain elites and not the ordinary citizens. My conclusion is that these past policies were put up merely as facade to justify its narrow interest or hidden agenda of clinging onto power or glorify themselves at the expense of the people.<br /> <br /> Is there a need to revisit these policies in the long term interest of the people? Is the past system of taxing and underspending tax monies to hoard them as surpluses a correct policy? is raising of GST at a time when we are having surpluses of some $6 billions pretended not to know of it a right move? Who is answerable for the raising of GST based on misrepresentation of the surplus almost amounting to deceit causing untold misery and hardship and runaway inflation of some 6% with no prospect of the government changing its course of perpetually raising taxes, fees and charges and hoarding tax monies as surpluses.<br /> <br /> I sincerely feel that with so many highly educated elites and scholars in our government paid the world's best salaries and other reward they should be able to think out of the box and start looking for a good, healthy and more sustainable solutions honestly without all the same facade and hypocrisy.<br /> <br /> I feel that we should be open with this topic and be prepared to discuss such issues as listed openly and be not shy to put up our views on websites and if necessary all the MPs' replies.<br /> <br /> With due respect I feel that while I agree with you that we are not the worse country politically, and we have come a long way since independence, we could have been governed with greater compassion and righteous morality over the past many years. We are not a matured democracy and are too young a country to have realized the full goodness of democracy much as democracy has its own particular shortcomings.<br /> <br /> The problem is today the government seems to believe it has all the solutions preferring to compare with worse scenarios in other younger democracies which suits them without being bothered to drop its many wrongful policies as stated in my email.<br /> <br /> I feel sincerely that if our government leaders do not understand or bother with such problems preferring to&nbsp; be obstriches burying their heads in the sand our MPs as elected representatives of the people should at least be more concerned and be courageous to raise them for discussions in parliament. I have put up a proposal to MPs to review our current constitution but have yet to elicit any response. Obviously the MPs only sidestepped all the main issues by pretending to by busy or away and to give an appropriate reply after looking into the matter. This sadly has been the standard replies received from other MPs.<br /> <br /> I do hope the MPs will be as candid and forthcoming as yourself in engaging me on my particular views and inputs on our current political system which I regarded as full of pretentiousness and hypocrisy. Many policies as I have described in my email were put up as facade to serve only the narrow interest of the governing elites and leaders. In actual implementation the citizens do not benefit from such policies which have produced many unintended fallout and consequences.<br /> <br /> I do not intend to elaborate further on these wrong policies of the government as many citizens have already done so including even the ex-civil servant like Mr. Ngiam Tong Dow with the insight of being part of government for many years who should therefore know what he is talking about and civic people like Dr. Catherine Lim.<br /> <br /> Therefore what I have mentioned in my email is not unsubstantiated criticisms or problems caused by wrong policies of the government as many people have expressed them better all these time.<br /> <br /> I do hope other MPs will be able to engage citizens on such issues and not avoid them like what they are now doing. Nearly all of them except for a few are giving some excuses to the effect they are outstation or away or busy and will look into my inputs as soon as possible. Are they truthful or putting wool over my eyes or are they complacent and becoming only yes-men because they have such a large comfort zone due to largely over-generous reward of jobs, monetary and other benefits cleverly put in store for them to keep them quiet and well behaved. These are the kind of MPs which were just thrown out by the people in the latest Malaysian elections because people have suffered from inactions due to their large comfort zone and complacency.<br /> <br /> I pray that our MPs will act in the honest interest of the citizens and not give some excuses like "outstation" or "away" and never quite give a damn to reply or not.<br /> <br /> This state of affair has been called complacency by no less than MM Lee. I look forward to more MPs being candid and will collectively raise issues I have raised to parliament in the next sitting in the interest of the country irrespective of the authoritarianism of the higher echelons as they as MPs are truly the conscience keeper of the people.<br /> <br /> Yours faithfully<br /> <br /> Robert Teh</p> Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:42:59 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7948155 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>Dear Forummers,</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>MP's Mr. Charles Chong has replied to my post as reproduced below for your information. Obviously he has not replied to the main issues and has evaded the issues which is the government has merely painted a good picture of itself using excuses like Meritocracy, Danger of Welfarism etc to do what it wants at the expense of the people.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>He comes across as merely repeating what the government has always been telling the people - we are lucky and we could have been worse. Do you agree that he has dealt with the main issues raised in my post?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>QUOTE:</p> <p>Everything you listed below has been done and probably are still being done<br /> by corrupt, incompetent or unscrupulous Governments in many countries. In<br /> some ASEAN countries there isn't even an elected Government e.g. Myanmar.<br /> <br /> Ultimately, what is important is a sophisticated electorate that is able to<br /> vote in capable leaders with integrity and empathy for the people. And a<br /> political system that permits the electorate to vote out the corrupt,<br /> incompetent and the unscrupulous and an opportunity to change its Govt.<br /> through the ballot box.<br /> <br /> An example would be the recent Malaysian elections where the electorate in<br /> some areas wanted change and voted out many incumbent veteran leaders and<br /> voted in new leaders instead. The ruling coalition was also denied a two<br /> thirds majority of seats in Parliament, thus denying them the ability to<br /> change the constitution without the support of the opposition MPs.<br /> <br /> It is still left to be seen if this new situation will bring about a better<br /> life for all Malaysians. However we wish the Malaysians well as any<br /> turmoil in Malaysia or any neighbouring country is likely to have adverse<br /> consequences in Singapore and the region.<br /> <br /> In Singapore, although we have adopted the Westminister style of<br /> Government, we have also adapted it somewhat to introduce some degree of<br /> checks and balance for the Govt. The Elected President (EP) is one such<br /> institution. The EP has constitutional powers to check the Govt's spending<br /> of the country's reserves, over the appointment of key personnel in the<br /> Civil Service, military and judiciary and the protection of minority<br /> rights.<br /> <br /> However if the electorate fails to elect a good President, then even the EP<br /> will not be an effective check on a crooked Govt.<br /> <br /> Our political system is by no means a perfect system and is still evolving.<br /> However it has served us not too badly over the years during the<br /> transformation of Singapore from an impovershed state with a much higher<br /> level of poverty and unemployment than what we have today (despite the<br /> rising inflation and cost of living).<br /> <br /> Can it be better? Of course it can. In my view what is missing from our<br /> local political scene is an opposition that can form a viable alternative<br /> to the present Government. In many developed countries, e.g. USA, UK, etc.<br /> the oppostion tries to win elections to take over the Govt. However in<br /> Singapore the opposition only aspire to serve as "a check on the PAP Govt"<br /> and at best to deny the Govt a two-thirds majority. What is the benefit to<br /> the people if the opposition merely wants to check or deny the PAP Govt a<br /> two-thirds majority? The Govt can govern the way it wants (short of<br /> amending the constitution), even with a simple majority. Only by taking<br /> over Govt. can a political party change policies and implement better<br /> alternatives.<br /> <br /> Will we ever reach a situation where a viable alternative emerges? Well,<br /> again in my view, it is likely only if the present Govt. mismanages badly<br /> and the majority of the electorate feels there is a much better<br /> alternative.<br /> <br /> Best Wishes<br /> <br /> Charles Chong<br /> MP for Pasir Ris-Punggol GRC</p> <p>UNQUOTE<br /> &nbsp;</p> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:03:03 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7940692 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>Just last week saw a Bollywood movie in tv. It showcases the&nbsp;culture of corruption in India. The story is about a family whose soldier son was killed in action. The government compensated by giving the family the licence to operate a petrol station. The bureaucratic nightmare then began for the family. Getting the land, the permit, the utilities, dealing with thugs, police, and even the military, all gave not too subtle "what will I get" whats in it for me". Complains to superiors get the response that that is the system. The story is about the patriach that refuses to pay a single cent in bribes. He succeeded in the end, with the intercession of the Prime Minister Ragiv Ghandhi. It is credited as a true story.</p> <p>One line in the dialogue struck me. A senior civil servant, told the patriach in all honesty: <strong>That the employee who takes bribes and does the job is an honest one. The one that takes a bribes and does not do the job is the corrupt one.</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p>I would rather corruption not be a way of life in Singapore.</p> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:05:29 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7940290 mancha http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>I don't know wat information u have access to but my impression is all these allegations r not founded on concrete evidence but on your own thinking. R they in because they r relatives of some people or they r in because of their results and other merits ? U sure they did not go through any interview at all ? Someone just write a note saying "Mr A is political secretary" then he become political secretary ?</p> <p>I think for such a big claim, u need to produce a big evidence. Otherwise I find it hard to believe.</p> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:49:08 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7939872 stupidissmart http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>1) Are these elites elites because they are the relatives and friends of the people in power and got their position even though they are a total dunce ?</p> <p>2) Are these elites elites because they had studied hard and gained government scholarships through their own hard work and on their own merit ?</p> <p>3) Are these elites elites because they worked hard and got to where they are because they are capable ?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:18:46 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7939728 kramnave http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>Stupidissmart,</p> <p>I do not need to name names, many senior posts in government are reserved for elites connected to the government. There is a clandestine elite club somewhere which determines who get what senior posts. Very often these senior posts were filled by party insiders.</p> <p>There is no open system to determine the quality or ability of such connected candidates and these connected elites were not even interviewed by an independent panel to evaluate the real ability and potential for such positions.</p> <p>MPs and ministers may be politicians who may be selected from their own internal system. However positions of ministers and senior civil servants and senior positions in GLCs should be more open as they are paid by public funds and should be people who are independent so that they will by loyal to citizens and not to power that be.</p> <p>If senior chief justices, CEOs, permanent secretaries, and certain senior civil servants were chosen based on political loyalty it will bring about cronyism which is bad for the country.</p> <p>Let all public positions like these be chosen by meritocracy by an&nbsp; independent panel unconnected to the party of leaders.</p> <p>Talking about meritocracy, it is therefore up to now only a facade or hypocrisy. There are many people outside the party with higher qualifications and abilities. But senior positions like CEOs and permanent secretaries are only limited. Without opening such positions to all the thousand of good people outside the connections are being bypassed so how can we claim such a system a real meritocracy?</p> Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:26:13 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7939391 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>"Do u wanna let you company be handled by elites ..." such as&nbsp;Wong Kan Seng.</p> Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:15:58 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7937924 Uncle Ver SG http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>I don'y agree with your observation tat general promotion in a gov sector goes to the people who r relatives of someone (not talking about lee), not in singapore at least. I think u really have to give me some examples <img src= "/images/emoticons/classic/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt= "icon_rolleyes.gif" /></p> <p>If u talk about giving to elites, which means&nbsp;more capable&nbsp;people among the masses, then I think tat is the right policy. Who wanna give commoners or average performer important and critical roles ? Do u wanna let you company be handled by elites or by tom dick and harry ?</p> Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:09:20 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7937909 stupidissmart http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by robertteh:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Hi Stupidissmart,</p> <p>There is nothing wrong with rewarding talents or meritocracy in theory or concept. What is wrong is the selfishness in narrowly implementing it to create protectionism or cronyism of all kinds. This point has been made many times too by ex-civil servant an insider of the ruling party who knew the facts. He called it auto-piloting in the context that once the supreme made a policy of such nature, no one can change it and it becomes auto-piloted until big problems came to stare at his face. Yet with such glaring errors - there are too many - he is too proud to admit mistakes and keep giving excuses to postpone problems and refuses to change.</p> <p>That is why Singapore has been straitjacked by one man who is too proud of his many concepts aimed at taxing the people to the fullest and sucking monies for the government without creating values to sustain the whole business environment for the people.</p> <p>Look at all the prime jobs in the government and civil service. They go to whom? Except for hypocrisy in admitting lower to middle rung jobs all the senior positions are practically reserved for their own elites and connections. There is even an inner circle or some elite club who will be on the quiet preserve jobs for those in the circle. Those who are not in the circle have no chance of smelling the senior CEO posts.</p> <p>What about promotions they go to whom? Study the HR practices adopted department by department you will find those with insider connection getting these prime jobs? Is it not precisely some kind of Bumiputra as practised by UMNO. On the surface it is good as it assures the indigenious of opportunity to climb the economic ladder. But when it comes to implementation who will get those opportunities? The Malays as a whole are still not benefiting from such policy like NEP.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>erm....so to whom the prime jobs in government and civil service go to ?</p> Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:33:49 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7937862 kramnave http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>Hi Stupidissmart,</p> <p>There is nothing wrong with rewarding talents or meritocracy in theory or concept. What is wrong is the selfishness in narrowly implementing it to create protectionism or cronyism of all kinds. This point has been made many times too by ex-civil servant an insider of the ruling party who knew the facts. He called it auto-piloting in the context that once the supreme made a policy of such nature, no one can change it and it becomes auto-piloted until big problems came to stare at his face. Yet with such glaring errors - there are too many - he is too proud to admit mistakes and keep giving excuses to postpone problems and refuses to change.</p> <p>That is why Singapore has been straitjacked by one man who is too proud of his many concepts aimed at taxing the people to the fullest and sucking monies for the government without creating values to sustain the whole business environment for the people.</p> <p>Look at all the prime jobs in the government and civil service. They go to whom? Except for hypocrisy in admitting lower to middle rung jobs all the senior positions are practically reserved for their own elites and connections. There is even an inner circle or some elite club who will be on the quiet preserve jobs for those in the circle. Those who are not in the circle have no chance of smelling the senior CEO posts.</p> <p>What about promotions they go to whom? Study the HR practices adopted department by department you will find those with insider connection getting these prime jobs? Is it not precisely some kind of Bumiputra as practised by UMNO. On the surface it is good as it assures the indigenious of opportunity to climb the economic ladder. But when it comes to implementation who will get those opportunities? The Malays as a whole are still not benefiting from such policy like NEP.</p> Sun, 16 Mar 2008 00:38:29 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7936948 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <blockquote> <p>Welfare is bad.<br /> Corruption is bad,<br /> Meritocracy is good,<br /> Rule of law is good,<br /> Talent is good,<br /> We must reward talent,</p> </blockquote> <p>Is there anything wrong with the above rules ? If we do not reward talent, they have better choices and will leave isn't it ? Isn't tat wat every companies in the world is doing ? Wat recommendation will u like to make to change rewarding talents ? Don't reward them and give them peanuts ?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Sun, 16 Mar 2008 00:21:30 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7936905 stupidissmart http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by robertteh:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Okay, point noted. How to penetrate the numskull of our unlistening and thick-skinned leaders to change their past self-centred practices will remain a big problem for all of us citizens to ponder over though.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Only way is to do what the Malaysians did - vote them out. If&nbsp; you get enough disgruntled Singaporeans, that can happen.</p> Sat, 15 Mar 2008 23:55:07 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7936800 kramnave http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>Okay, point noted. How to penetrate the numskull of our unlistening and thick-skinned leaders to change their past self-centred practices will remain a big problem for all of us citizens to ponder over though.</p> Sat, 15 Mar 2008 23:46:39 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7936766 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>Every time u post it is always a whole host of negative complaints. For once please tell us how&nbsp;<strong>U</strong> can really help to 'make a difference' in this country of ours .... Singapore.</p> Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:18:58 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7936130 TS Kan http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>You should mention that talent in here meant foreign talent.</p> Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:49:27 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7936078 FirePig http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>Cloudy,</p> <p>No body forces you to read. You can also join a party why don't you?</p> Sat, 15 Mar 2008 18:54:46 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7936018 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>do u think of all these or u copied from some blog? seriously, if you wan to make a difference in singapore or influence singaporeans please join some political party or form yourself one. no use come here make long post and expect us to read right? its so NATO..</p> Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:57:03 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7935307 cloud210 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013 <p>Corruption is bad, this is what our leaders tell the animals in the Farm.<br /> <br /> Welfare is bad.<br /> Corruption is bad,<br /> Meritocracy is good,<br /> Rule of law is good,<br /> Talent is good,<br /> We must reward talent,<br /> <br /> How do you stop the government to promote his own cronies into position of power to serve him and his own interest?<br /> <br /> This is called grey areas or administrative or discretionary power in our law books.<br /> <br /> A government therefore can govern a country like Jekyl and hyke - one legally based on rule of written laws and the other illegally to serve own interest on unwritten laws?<br /> <br /> In the Westminster system of democracy, we the citizens are supposed to have elected MPs and let them choose their own leaders to be the PM or Ministers to form cabinet with large discretionary or administrative power to overpower any MPs or oppositions so how can anyone or the judges (legally) stop the government leaders like PM or MPs from doing wrongs legally for their own benefits if not checked by some means of accountability ?<br /> <br /> There are large areas of grey in our Westminster system which the government can use to do things as they like to benefit themselves to no end.<br /> <br /> We the citizens are suffering by the days and months and years all this sort of governing now and we are getting poorer with more and more blatant denials of problems because of such greys.<br /> <br /> So irrespective of all the objections and immorality the governing elites continue to exploit the grey areas and use their administrative power e.g. appointing judges, creating positions or promotions to run any departments for their own favored cronies.<br /> <br /> But a crooked government will be able to see that it is not illegal to take it through the grey areas where the judges will legally say "I cannot send you to jail because I cannot find a law to send you to jail even though what you do is reprehensible and immoral" Even Durai who has done wrongs is trying to appeal his sentence now because of such greys.<br /> <br /> The large discretionary or administrative power given to government to appoint your cronies to power is not right but there is no law to stop such crooks to install their own shields or proxies in large number to take monies and do as they like legally through the grey areas - the biggest danger of government today not taking of some stamps or receiving of some gifts from contractors or defaming someone for political election speeches.<br /> <br /> So as we can see there are many Enrons Worldcom, CAO out there exploiting such grey areas everyday.<br /> <br /> CEOs and senior offices appointed to high position of power are laughing all the way to the bank, taking monies from public legally immorally in this manner.<br /> <br /> Auditing and accounting and committees are just window dressing activities to cover up existing problems.<br /> <br /> It has happened in NKF. It is still happening everywhere creating situations like Shin Corp Merryl Lynch or Citibank where leaders of government can become their advisor while making decisions through grey areas without any one to stop them from potential wrong doings.<br /> <br /> Through such widespread use of administrative and discretionary power in the laws, any ministers of government can tell the citizens "I should be paid more than the CEOs in the private sector because as government my responsibility is higher.<br /> <br /> Actually he is elected to serve the people from his low position not worth a penny in many cases. How to compare is a trick. After getting into power one can definitely give a different twist to his own worth.<br /> <br /> So many ministers without inventing apples or micros and creating values or jobs can reward themselves as presumed talents and pay themselves legally and beyond the law and our judges or people cannot do anything to stop such crooked conduct.<br /> <br /> So leaders can do all sorts of things of such nature and wrong beyond the law because they can go in and come out of all grey areas to serve to do things for their own personal benefits.<br /> <br /> They can take monies from public fund legally though immorally by such power from the people without brinking an eyelid:-<br /> <br /> They can make decisions by power while protected by the laws because such use of power fall into the grey areas where the judges cannot judge legally.<br /> <br /> So anyone elected to government can take monies in the following legal manner including (non-exhaustive) :-<br /> <br /> (1) Pass laws through elected parliament<br /> (2) Tell the world we govern by rule of law<br /> (3) Tell the world anyone breakers of law will be jailed or fined<br /> (4) Then pass laws to protect them from queries,<br /> (5) Then have a lot of front men and committees,<br /> (6) Give them monies and power to act like proxies,<br /> (7) Cover themselves nicely legally but always act from behind,<br /> (8) Put up excuses to change laws<br /> (9) Launch projects to spend monies<br /> (10) Say grey things like we need talents,<br /> <br /> Then one will succeed in governing corruptly yet legally and look good.</p> Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:03:52 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:311013:7935037 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/311013