ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by 798 @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:04:17 +0800

798 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:04:17 +0800

Originally posted by Gedanken:

50 out of 200-300 for an undergraduate course = "best of the best"?!

actually i feel dat local degree r degrading as years to come by becos nowaday universities will accept any tom, dick n harry. it's becoming a common trend dat the population is infested wif degree holders.

just how many employers can pay to expectation salary? many graduates i feel will led to disappointment. if this goes on, in the near future taxi drivers have to obtain degree cert to drive on the road.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by greengoblin @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:57:29 +0800

greengoblin — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:57:29 +0800

My goodness...what has NUS prof come to nowadays.... perhaps if ms ong remembers the lecturer, she can let the ppl of Singapore know :)

BTW..let us not deviate too much from this thread... if any forumers have personal issues, they can pm each other to settle it among themselves.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by TCH05 @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:59:53 +0800

TCH05 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:59:53 +0800

Originally posted by FirePig:

Lab Analyst (Oil, Petroleum)

Maybe he talk big? He count all his OT pay as well...

it is possible because it is petroleum company we are talking about. I think they usually get a min. of 4 months bonus.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by will4 @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:34:27 +0800

will4 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:34:27 +0800

Originally posted by Gedanken:

That's even worse. A 1-in-4 selection ratio probably doesn't even match your average ratio for jobs, and in calling it "the best of the best" this lecturer just showed how much of a nickel-and-dime operator she is.

It is of littl wonder when majority of the poly graduates went to other countries for further study, majority of them never came back.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by Gedanken @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:29:31 +0800

Gedanken — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:29:31 +0800

Originally posted by FirePig:

There are tons of life sciences undergrads around. I dont think the vacancy is only 50.

That's even worse. A 1-in-4 selection ratio probably doesn't even match your average ratio for jobs, and in calling it "the best of the best" this lecturer just showed how much of a nickel-and-dime operator she is.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by FirePig @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:56:10 +0800

FirePig — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:56:10 +0800

There are tons of life sciences undergrads around. I dont think the vacancy is only 50.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by redDUST @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:43:16 +0800

redDUST — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:43:16 +0800

Originally posted by FirePig:

I got one friend. Now 22 yrs old male. Started working after O levels at 17. At 18, went to serve NS. After NS, change to another job and now he earns 3.3k per month. I would say its not bad at all for an O level grad.

the question is can he move up the income curve over the years or will he stagnate. in a meritocratic singapore, chances are he will stagnate. of course, it depends on what he is doing.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by Gedanken @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:37:17 +0800

Gedanken — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:37:17 +0800

Originally posted by 798:

a-NUS Lecturer belittles 'weak' poly student at NUS open house

50 out of 200-300 for an undergraduate course = "best of the best"?!

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by FirePig @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:07:52 +0800

FirePig — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:07:52 +0800

Originally posted by Seven_Dragon:

Firepig, what do your friend work as?

Lab Analyst (Oil, Petroleum)

Maybe he talk big? He count all his OT pay as well...

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by Seven_Dragon @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:05:53 +0800

Seven_Dragon — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:05:53 +0800

Firepig, what do your friend work as?

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by 798 @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:57:30 +0800

798 — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:57:30 +0800

a-NUS Lecturer belittles 'weak' poly student at NUS open house

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by eagle @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:55:05 +0800

eagle — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:55:05 +0800

Originally posted by Wo0f:

Actually, there is no point comparing jc vs poly wor. If one cannot enter local uni, one can only blame himself/herself for the incompetency and poor grades. Although it's true that a poly cert worth more than a a lvl cert, however who can deny that now a poly cert is actually like a o lvl cert where is it so common? Its also a true fact that a higher education will commands a higher starting salary, so given a chance who wont want to try and persue?

So be it jc or poly grad, pls dont think of just self, selfishness will leads to nowhere wor. There must be fairness in all aspect.

If you are good, that means you are good. No point whinning here saying poly grad ruin the opportunities/future of a A lvl student.

In addition, usually when a poly student enters local uni, he tends to get direct 2nd yr entry or many many module credit exemptions, so its not true that by going thru the poly-uni route is longer than a A lvl-uni route.

just my 2cent thought :)

But do you know how much more crammed or stressful a poly-uni route is during the uni part?

They are only exempted from some of the 1st year modules, not all of them.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by FirePig @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:23:13 +0800

FirePig — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:23:13 +0800

I got one friend. Now 22 yrs old male. Started working after O levels at 17. At 18, went to serve NS. After NS, change to another job and now he earns 3.3k per month. I would say its not bad at all for an O level grad.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by Wo0f @ Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:24:48 +0800

Wo0f — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:24:48 +0800

Actually, there is no point comparing jc vs poly wor. If one cannot enter local uni, one can only blame himself/herself for the incompetency and poor grades. Although it's true that a poly cert worth more than a a lvl cert, however who can deny that now a poly cert is actually like a o lvl cert where is it so common? Its also a true fact that a higher education will commands a higher starting salary, so given a chance who wont want to try and persue?

So be it jc or poly grad, pls dont think of just self, selfishness will leads to nowhere wor. There must be fairness in all aspect.

If you are good, that means you are good. No point whinning here saying poly grad ruin the opportunities/future of a A lvl student.

In addition, usually when a poly student enters local uni, he tends to get direct 2nd yr entry or many many module credit exemptions, so its not true that by going thru the poly-uni route is longer than a A lvl-uni route.

just my 2cent thought :)

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by oxford mushroom @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:47:19 +0800

oxford mushroom — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:47:19 +0800

What is there to rant about? Limited uni places go to the best candidates and the best jobs go to the most qualified workers. It's survival of the fittest...those who cannot keep up will be breakfast for those who do...

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by Gedanken @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:18:27 +0800

Gedanken — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:18:27 +0800

Originally posted by airgrinder:

Anyway, my take on those who agreed and supported along the lines of "Poly go out can earn something, A levels can't so places should be given to A levels people."

...

This Poly/JC squeeze issue will always be there and it will come up every year during the release of A level results. The issue is not even primarily on the number of places available for A level graduates in Uni, but is the number of places available for A level graduates in Uni for the course of their choice.

Well, the complaints we are seeing in SG from A level graduates not able to get into the course of their choice again underlines the Complaining and Blame-Pushing Nature of the younger generation Singaporeans.

...

In case the complainers haven't realised, we live in a performance oriented society, be it in SG, in SEA or in any developing/developed countries. If you're not able to best it amount others, then, too bad.

...

Accepted that you didn't managed to achieve what you want. Recognise you're not as good. Move on and do better in your next stage of life.

A fair call to some extent, airgrinder, although I'd question if we're looking at the right criteria here, and where the raison d'etre of university education fits into the picture.

Just doing a quick recap of the proposed reasons why one group or other should be deprived of places at university, we have:

- someone needs to do the blue-collar work
- poly grads can go and earn money so they shouldn't go to university
- there's simply not enough space in universities

At best, these are peripheral to getting a university education.

When I was an undergrad, a hot-button topic was "education for sale". There were two aspect to this:

1) university places were going to those who could afford to pay full fees and;
2) university courses were being too fine-tuned to limited and specific industry requirements instead of providing students with an atmosphere in which they can explore, analyse and synthesise new ideas and concepts

Now speaking as someone who's making a comfortable living in a specific and narrow field, I cannot fairly say that I have not gained by said fine-tuning of university courses. However, as idealistic as it sounds, IMHO there's much more to being in university than getting ahead in the rat race. I spend my spare time with formal and informal multidisciplinary groups, and there's a certain enjoyment in stepping out of one's own field and learning a thing or two about other subjects like law, medicine, engineering and, dare I say it, literature. The generic analytical skills provided through a university education open the doors to much more than just jobs.

That being the case, should the opportunities for education be dictated by criteria such as quotas for blue-collar workers, whether or not someone should be working instead of studying or inadequate access to such education? Personally, I don't think so.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by jojobeach @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:03:13 +0800

jojobeach — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:03:13 +0800

Originally posted by Gedanken:

Man, your denial's astounding. Never mind, the thread's there as testimony so you can lie all you want - there's no covering up your disgrace.

Anyway, it seems her majesty has spoken, and besides, your inanity is plain boring. Despite what FireIce recommends, though, please don't PM and me, and for God's sake, have some dignity and stop following me around like a lost puppy.

Gawd sake Ged, there you go again.

Do you have something you're trying to compensate for ?

Stop being a delusional pervie ok ?

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by Gedanken @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:48:08 +0800

Gedanken — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:48:08 +0800

Originally posted by jojobeach:

Tsk tsk Ged,

Your memory so short lived...what 80 odd page ? Please lah.. go back and read it yourself ok ?

Well, I really don't care for that aunt Fymk and I did tell her I don't like her.. what hypocrisy ?

As for the rest of your gang.. I'm ok with them.

Please ok ? You're not on dope are you? What's with conjuring up that date crap with KB ? I'm in Texas he's in SG.. date what ? In your dream perhaps.

Alamak,. I also remember now.. we're jesting at you..yet you take it that we are interested in you.. goosh.. now that's creepy.

Man, your denial's astounding. Never mind, the thread's there as testimony so you can lie all you want - there's no covering up your disgrace.

Anyway, it seems her majesty has spoken, and besides, your inanity is plain boring. Despite what FireIce recommends, though, please don't PM and me, and for God's sake, have some dignity and stop following me around like a lost puppy.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by FireIce @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:00:39 +0800

FireIce — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:00:39 +0800

this thread has lost its purpose.

for everything else, there is mastercard......... and private message.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by airgrinder @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:59:48 +0800

airgrinder — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:59:48 +0800

Haha! I knew it when I saw the thread title that this is going to degenerate into a screaming/shouting/arguing thread. Keke

Anyway, my take on those who agreed and supported along the lines of "Poly go out can earn something, A levels can't so places should be given to A levels people."

I'm sure u know this as a general fact after your O levels, so why pick JC? Can I say some of you look down on Poly considering it as an inferior place to go to as compare to JC? How come now after your As when you're not able to get into Uni, u complain that poly people are squeezing u out?

A forumer even did some calculations about a poly grad earning more working rather than spending an extra 3 years studying Uni. Can I appeal to that forumer that his calculation is grossly inaccurate. I shall not go into the details, but let me put it across this way. Those going into uni are the top few percentages in Poly, and according to the ST article, accounts for about 25% of their corhort. Do you think they had not considered this before? Let's look at it another way. There are alot of diploma holders, people with several years of work experience, graduates from ITE taking Night/Part time degrees from the unis. What do you think is their reasoning for doing so, since according to the way you calculate, they should be earning more?

This Poly/JC squeeze issue will always be there and it will come up every year during the release of A level results. The issue is not even primarily on the number of places available for A level graduates in Uni, but is the number of places available for A level graduates in Uni for the course of their choice.

Well, the complaints we are seeing in SG from A level graduates not able to get into the course of their choice again underlines the Complaining and Blame-Pushing Nature of the younger generation Singaporeans.

Teacher scold u - complain to parents - parents come to school to make a big fuss. Little bit not happy with retail staff - complain to supervisor to make the staff loss their job. Little bit not happy with boss - complain and spread gossip about them. Taxi fare increase - complain government. Late for work - complain bus come late. It's everyone's fault but their own.

In case the complainers haven't realised, we live in a performance oriented society, be it in SG, in SEA or in any developing/developed countries. If you're not able to best it amount others, then, too bad.

Your parents are not able to help you. Neither are your grandparents nor your MPs.

Accepted that you didn't managed to achieve what you want. Recognise you're not as good. Move on and do better in your next stage of life.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by jojobeach @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:16:14 +0800

jojobeach — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:16:14 +0800

Originally posted by Cool_boy88:

hi guys. im a JC student who had just received my grades. It aint that good. But thats not the point. Regarding this article, what i feel is that the question is not whether poly or jc students deserves the uni place more. The problem here is there are lack of places! Our country has such a large amount of reserves(money i mean). Why cant they just spend on building more universities so as to cater to 50% of the corhot. Besides, A lvl grads who only have an A lvl cert will be at a disadvantage if they are to be rejected a place in the local U.

Many people and the govt will simply counter this by saying " send ur kids overseas". But have they ever considered the poor families? Singapore has nothing but manpower. The govt should then equip the people with the skills required. And please take pity on rejected JC students. And by the way, most rejected JC students are ABB or BBB students and below. How the hell will most people get wad they want?

cRap.

Students riot my friend. Best way to avoid it.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by fishbuff @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:11:18 +0800

fishbuff — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:11:18 +0800

Originally posted by Cool_boy88:

hi guys. im a JC student who had just received my grades. It aint that good. But thats not the point. Regarding this article, what i feel is that the question is not whether poly or jc students deserves the uni place more. The problem here is there are lack of places! Our country has such a large amount of reserves(money i mean). Why cant they just spend on building more universities so as to cater to 50% of the corhot. Besides, A lvl grads who only have an A lvl cert will be at a disadvantage if they are to be rejected a place in the local U.

Many people and the govt will simply counter this by saying " send ur kids overseas". But have they ever considered the poor families? Singapore has nothing but manpower. The govt should then equip the people with the skills required. And please take pity on rejected JC students. And by the way, most rejected JC students are ABB or BBB students and below. How the hell will most people get wad they want?

cRap.

my friend just send two of her kids here in brisbane at a cost of S$100k per head.

so start saving up!

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by jojobeach @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:08:44 +0800

jojobeach — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:08:44 +0800

Originally posted by Ed11790:

ill try to ask my mom to apply for me to nus or ntu since she’s in malaysia…...if i get in then i move there…....if not then i stay in u.s

Oh I remember you now Ed...

Have you visited Sg and Asia region to check out the places yet ?

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by jojobeach @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:01:49 +0800

jojobeach — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:01:49 +0800

Originally posted by Gedanken:

It's painfully obvious how you're living in denial, but you're in a tight spot here - because of your denial, you're denying your problem.

As for more denial, well, go back through the 80-odd pages of your mud slinging fest and see for yourself if it's just fymk and myself you had a problem with. Hell you traumatised poor KB by first having a go at him and then pathetically asking him out for a date - his skin just about crawled right off him at that prospect. The FACTS are there even if you're too neurotic to see the truth.

Keep up the hypocrisy.

Tsk tsk Ged,

Your memory so short lived...what 80 odd page ? Please lah.. go back and read it yourself ok ?

Well, I really don't care for that aunt Fymk and I did tell her I don't like her.. what hypocrisy ?

As for the rest of your gang.. I'm ok with them.

Please ok ? You're not on dope are you? What's with conjuring up that date crap with KB ? I'm in Texas he's in SG.. date what ? In your dream perhaps.

Alamak,. I also remember now.. we're jesting at you..yet you take it that we are interested in you.. goosh.. now that's creepy.

ST: "Polytechnic grads put squeeze on university places" replied by Ed11790 @ Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:54:21 +0800

Ed11790 — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:54:21 +0800

ill try to ask my mom to apply for me to nus or ntu since she’s in malaysia…...if i get in then i move there…....if not then i stay in u.s

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