Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by will4 @ Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:01:35 +0800

will4 — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:01:35 +0800

According to a minister's remark, about one thousand local migrate to other countries each year but the information shown, the arrival of local immigrants into

Australia is already more than one thousand each year.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by balance_else_complacent @ Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:56:09 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:56:09 +0800

as the Qualified collects the cpf, who are those left behind to 'enjoy' the 'more good years'?

having heard what a wonderful speech last night, I firmed up some thinking.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by redDUST @ Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:25:20 +0800

redDUST — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:25:20 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

Emigration Becomes A Business

I was at Raffles City today. A man was standing at the entrance handing out flyers to passers-by. He handed two to me. Here they are...

http://mrwangsaysso.blogspot.com/2008/04/

well, the migration business have been thriving for a while. my take it the following:

1. this is still a business. the chaps advertising are in it for the money. they are not here to do these group of people a favour. it is a window of opportunity to work towards their BMW or Casa whatever condo.

2. you still need to do various assessments to see if you do really qualify. not every welder in singapore here can migrate to australia/nz or canada at will. most obvious is certification. here in singapore, we can get away with a welder who learn on the job and it became his vocation. elsewhere, it is stricter. necessary vocational certification and other written confirmation about a specific job skill is required. for example, i cannot apply for PR in australia as a hairdresser even if it's in demand there if i cannot prove my competence. or a cook for example. here in singapore, anyonce can set-up a bah-kut teh store overnight. and then there is the language competency test, character tests, medical, etc. it can be daunting.

3. money can be a problem too. these migration agents will easily charge $5k upwards for each case processed. this will go up once the incidentals comes in. i would think that it can add another $2k for a total of $7k or so for each applicants to cough up. not a small deal for these people. and not all application will be successful. the migration agent will state this upfront. after all these trouble and then if the PR is not approved, it is money down the drain.

those who has relatives overseas, like fishbuff helping his in-laws, stand a much better chance as the strongman will know how to navigate certain obstacle to ease the entry. otherwise, it is not plain sailing.

singapore is not zimbabwe, or nigeria. those with $3-4k disposable income/month here should be able to fend for themselves. they will get a roof under their head, fridge, tv, sofa and beds, plus a handphone per person. they may be starved politically but hey, survival and living are topmost of their mind. if the government can be more compassionate to be more forthcoming to help those who are really struggling, then i think singapore may not be that bad a place after all.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by fishbuff @ Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:18:47 +0800

fishbuff — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:18:47 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

Emigration Becomes A Business

I was at Raffles City today. A man was standing at the entrance handing out flyers to passers-by. He handed two to me. Here they are...

http://mrwangsaysso.blogspot.com/2008/04/

alot of singaporeans want to get out of singapore.

in the meantime, im helping my brother-in-laws to emigrate to australia. with their years of experiences in rennovation, tiling and carpentry, im very sure they will be successful here. back in sg, they are reduced down to truck drivers and other menial works employees.

sg can go belly up for all i care.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:20:39 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:20:39 +0800

Emigration Becomes A Business

I was at Raffles City today. A man was standing at the entrance handing out flyers to passers-by. He handed two to me. Here they are...

http://mrwangsaysso.blogspot.com/2008/04/

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by will4 @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:37:38 +0800

will4 — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:37:38 +0800

There is something wrong if too many people decided to migrate to other countries.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by t_a_s @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:53:57 +0800

t_a_s — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:53:57 +0800

If a person is above 45 yr old, he can't qualify for migration, any other scheme for him to work in Aus ?

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by Melbournite @ Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:00:49 +0800

Melbournite — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:00:49 +0800

There is a serious problem in singapore which is yet so obvious and glaring but no steps are being done to rectify it.

Look at AUS, there is a shortage of people too but there are strict controls on how the inflow of migrants are allowed. yet so many people flock to AUS even though its a more expensive place than sg in terms of taxation.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by fishbuff @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:48:08 +0800

fishbuff — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:48:08 +0800

Originally posted by reyes:

my wife and 2 kids are now in aust. perth.

they are definitely happier there dispite much convenience such as shopping, higher prices of dinning, houses.

the desire for some singaporeans is not longer just material stuff. for myself, i want a more transparent govt, govt who arent afraid to fire minister who dont perform or make a mistake( mas selamat saga).

paper chase society. the more influx of FTs will just make more singaporean wana leave. this is a viscious cycle.

i am still in singapore. still doing my NS men duty but i just cant see myself ending my career in singapore.

time to end it and go, man. no point dragging your feet in sg.

what kind of job do u have in sg? you wont feel it worthwhile when your employer retrench u.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by reyes @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:34:50 +0800

reyes — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:34:50 +0800

my wife and 2 kids are now in aust. perth.

they are definitely happier there dispite much convenience such as shopping, higher prices of dinning, houses.

the desire for some singaporeans is not longer just material stuff. for myself, i want a more transparent govt, govt who arent afraid to fire minister who dont perform or make a mistake( mas selamat saga).

paper chase society. the more influx of FTs will just make more singaporean wana leave. this is a viscious cycle.

i am still in singapore. still doing my NS men duty but i just cant see myself ending my career in singapore.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:53:45 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:53:45 +0800

I believe this 10 figure is just on those who give up their citizenship.

If you include those who haven't given up their citizenship, but live effectively as if they are cut off from Singapore, ie working in another country then the figure is actually higher.

The main concern as well is that those people tend to be the highly skilled of the population.

Unfortunately for lionnoisy, importing highly-skilled FT does not solve the problem, if carried out in the long term eventually the social strata of higher skilled workers will be dominated by FTs, and the social issues that rise from it will eventually spill over.

Even more unfortunate, is that the majority of these FTs do not make Singapore their perminant home, and this will show even more 10 or 20 years down the road. lionnoisy fails to accept this because he can't bear to think we have any major problems that isn't being solved.

But even our government admits that the current FT policy is a stopgap, the issue of brain drain is something that must be reversed, not replaced with a numbers game.

Of course there is also a major issue of the rising standards of living in countries like China and India which will eventually make Singapore a lot less attractive, and the supply will start to dry up.

Ultimately if we are so attractive, why can't we retain our top talent and why is there a brain drain in the first place?

You don't make good use or retain your own talent, then trying to make up for this problem by simply importing people is like trying to replace lost blood volume of a bleeding person with IVs packs of saline solutions... it is a stopgap solution. If the bleeding is not stopped eventually the blood will get so diluted by the IVs you are using to boost the blood voume the patient will die anyway.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by balance_else_complacent @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:49:28 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:49:28 +0800

if 10 citizens quit everyday, considering the size of the pore, that is a lot.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by balance_else_complacent @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:49:28 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:49:28 +0800

if 10 citizens quit everyday, considering the size of the pore, that is a lot.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:39:32 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:39:32 +0800

Originally posted by fishbuff:

yea, i was wondering why lionnoisy's thread was locked up. it doesnt share the same topic as this one. i ask the moderator to re-open LN's thread .

Actually this is because lionnoisy's track record of being a troll in here is well established, and the topics he start are to attract people to his soapbox and not for discussion, spoiling the general quality of the forum in here.

It is no surprise his topic is locked.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:37:47 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:37:47 +0800

Singapore Brain drain in math terms

April 14, 2008 Ignorantsoup Randomlicious Permalinks

Well, I think this math question for my 1506 module will tell us a reason why there is a brain drain in Singapore:

Both Elves and Dwarves live in Rivendell, but there is a certain irrational resentment
between the two groups [placed in their hearts, no doubt, by Sauron]. The amount of
racial prejudice is not the same on both sides, Elves tending to be more intolerant than
Dwarves, but both groups are inclined to move out of Rivendell at a rate controlled by
the number of the other group. Apart from this, both groups reproduce as usual, but
Elves can only be killed by violence –they never grow old– so their overall death rate
per capita is lower than that of the Dwarves; also, the Elvish birth rate per capita is
higher since Dwarf women are scarce [ever seen one?]. Both groups have more births
than deaths. We can set up a model of this situation using a pair of simultaneous ODEs
with a matrix [where the first row describes the rate of change of the Elf population]
5 -4
-1 2

Explain why this matrix does represent the situation we described. At a
certain time, the number of Dwarves is slightly larger than the number of Elves. Predict
what will happen to the population of Elves. This pattern has in fact often been observed
in racially discriminatory societies.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:34:17 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:34:17 +0800

2.why my thread was banned?

Can mod tell me openly here?

Let me tell you openly

Because in here you are persona non grata.

Population
The exodus continues
Foreigners more than make up for increasing local outflow; unfortunately it doesn’t help consolidate nationhood. By Seah Chiang Nee.
Feb 24, 2008

YEARS of strong economic growth have failed to stem Singapore’s skilled youths from leaving for a better life abroad, with the number topping 1,000 a year.

This works out to 4%-5%, or three in 10, of the highly educated population, a severe brain drain for a small, young nation, according to Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew.

Such high-end emigration is usually associated with less better-off countries where living conditions are poor. Here the opposite is the case.

Last year the economy created almost 200,000 jobs, far in excess of the 38,000 births recorded.

The future doesn’t look better, either, despite Lee holding out promises of “a golden period” in the next five to 10 years.

Lee believes the exodus, which has been worrying him for two decades, could only grow because “every year, there are more people going abroad for their first or second degree.”

The emigration rate, one of the highest in the world on a per capita basis, is a blow to the government, particularly to Lee, who takes pride in building up this once poor squatter colony into a glittering global city.

They are people who abandoned their citizenship for a foreign one, mostly in Australia, the United States and Canada.

It is particularly serious for two reasons. First, Singapore is a young nation that is working hard to consolidate its nationhood and its people, and second, its defence lies in a reservist army.

This is made up of young men who have served two years of compulsory military training when they reach the age of 18. Any big outflow will badly affect security, not to mention the economy.

Adding to a declining birth rate, the problem of emigration, which appears to have worsened during the past few decades as people became better educated, will further reduce the base of this well-trained people’s army.

Hundreds of thousands of foreigners and permanent residents who have come to Singapore help make up the numbers, but they do not have to serve national service.

The emigrants, mostly professionals, don’t leave Singapore out of poverty but to seek a better, less pressurised life.

Lee recently said the brain drain is touching close to this family.

Lee’s grandson, the elder son of Prime Minister Hsien Loong, who is studying in the United States, has indicated that he may not return.

Over the years, the children of several Cabinet ministers have also made Britain or the US their home.

Lee, aged 84, has often spoken on the issue with emotions, once tearing when referring to the losses.

However, he has offered no reasons for the exodus beyond economic opportunities, although the government more or less knows what they are.

Singaporeans who have or are planning to emigrate are given a host of 10 questions and asked to tick the three most important ones. They include the following: -

> High costs of living

> Singapore is too regulated and stifling

> Better career and prospects overseas

> Prefer a more relaxed lifestyle

> Uncertain future of Singapore.

Some liberal Singaporeans believe Lee himself, with his authoritarian leadership and unpopular policies, is largely to blame.

Singapore’s best-known writer Catherine Lim calls it a climate of fear that stops citizens from speaking out against the government, saying it could eventually lead to the decline of the state.

She praised the government for its economic achievements but added: “A compliant, fearful population that has never learnt to be politically savvy could spell the doom of Singapore.” Globalisation, which offers opportunities in many countries like never before, is a big reason for the outflow.

Many countries, including populous China, are making a special effort to attract foreign talent.

Others who leave were worried about the future of their children living in a small island, and look for security and comfort of a larger country.

The exodus is more than made up – at least in numbers – by a larger intake of professionals from China and India.

“The trouble is many of the Chinese then use us as a stepping stone to go to America, where the grass is greener, Lee said.

“But even if we only keep 30%-40% and lose 60%-70%, we’re a net gainer,” he added.

He believed, however, that the Chinese would cease to come in 20 to 30 years’ time, when China’s living standards rise to match Singapore’s.

Some feel the large presence of foreigners, and the perks they enjoy over locals in military exemption as well as in scholarships, are themselves strong push factors.

They see the foreigners as a threat to jobs and space, undermining salaries and loosening the nation’s cohesion.

“I just feel very sad to see the Singapore of today with so many talented, passionate Singaporeans moving out and being replaced by many foreigners,” said one blogger. “I feel sorry for the future.”

Others point out the danger of an easy fix in numbers without regard to quality.

“Foreigners treat this place as a hotel, when the economy turns they will leave,” said a teacher who is seeing more and more foreign students in his class...

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by will4 @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:09:15 +0800

will4 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:09:15 +0800

Originally posted by fishbuff:

yea, i was wondering why lionnoisy's thread was locked up. it doesnt share the same topic as this one. i ask the moderator to re-open LN's thread .

I read an adverstisement by an immigration agency specializing immigration to Australia. NUS engineering graduates also eligible to apply.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by fishbuff @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:50:13 +0800

fishbuff — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:50:13 +0800

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

while many escape fr red lillte red dot hell,

many FT take sg as home.

http://www.centralsingapore.org.sg/site/cscdc/voices/voices39/004_ontrack.pdf

Michael Morris came to sg to work for Heineken beer in 1976.

''I cant remember what my expectations were but I was certainly not expecting what I saw.The ease of coming through compared to your average Heathrow airport arrival was stunning.''

2.why my thread was banned?

Can mod tell me openly here?

http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/313770

Everyday,178 FT come to SG

yea, i was wondering why lionnoisy's thread was locked up. it doesnt share the same topic as this one. i ask the moderator to re-open LN's thread .

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by eagle @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:22:43 +0800

eagle — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:22:43 +0800

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

2.why my thread was banned?

Can mod tell me openly here?

http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/313770

Everyday,178 FT come to SG

Don't need to whine. Your thread title is so similar to

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus

duh...

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by justdoit77 @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:42:37 +0800

justdoit77 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:42:37 +0800

Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:

The problem is that Singaporeans who do indeed leave tend to cut ties with Singapore... it's quite different from jews overseas feeling a duty to help Israel.

I feel that Singapore is still too young and don't have a very unique culture to unite the people.
Since we can't stop them from going abroad, the government should at least do something to increase the cohesiveness with them, for example setting up a network for them.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by justdoit77 @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:37:12 +0800

justdoit77 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:37:12 +0800

Originally posted by whiskers:

Wow, this is a totally fresh view for me... Never thought citizen outflow is also a good thing in disguise....
are u studying political science or what...

haha. I am sure there are many people who has this view also.
I don't study political science, don't think it can give me steady income.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by justdoit77 @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:34:10 +0800

justdoit77 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:34:10 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

The Israeli lobby's influence is mainly through the christian right groups in the USA.

If any USA politician wants to make an anti-Israeli move, they might lose the support of the christian right.

http://www.guerrillanews.com/articles/2097/The_Zionist_Evangelical_Alliance

yup.
During the time when Jews lost their land and forced to flee to other countries, their hard power seems shrinking but their soft power is increasing steadily. Though a miserable process, but it serve as a foundation for today's powerful Israel.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by lionnoisy @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:27:49 +0800

lionnoisy — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:27:49 +0800

while many escape fr red lillte red dot hell,

many FT take sg as home.

http://www.centralsingapore.org.sg/site/cscdc/voices/voices39/004_ontrack.pdf

Michael Morris came to sg to work for Heineken beer in 1976.

''I cant remember what my expectations were but I was certainly not expecting what I saw.The ease of coming through compared to your average Heathrow airport arrival was stunning.''

Michael Morris gave up UK citizenship and took up SG's.

Like the saying go''Some one's candy is some one 's posion.''

2.why my thread was banned?

Can mod tell me openly here?

http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/313770

Everyday,178 FT come to SG

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:28:04 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:28:04 +0800

The problem is that Singaporeans who do indeed leave tend to cut ties with Singapore... it's quite different from jews overseas feeling a duty to help Israel.

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by whiskers @ Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:24:13 +0800

whiskers — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:24:13 +0800

Originally posted by justdoit77:

Actually hor, it is not a bad thing that many singaporeans migrate to other countries.
Singapore though is very small, but the government always try to widen its influence in the world, so as more singaporeans migrate to overseas, whether or not they like the government but as long as they still emotionally attached to this land, Singapore will have more influence through them being part of the society there.

Take for example China and India, why their economy reformation is so successful, that is partly because there are so many overseas chinese and indians everywhere, New York, Paris, Tokyo, Perth. This group of people can act as communication network and potential investor. Russia don't have this equivalent huge and influential group of overseas russians to help the motherland when they are in deep shit.
Why Israel dare to be so guai lan, that is because the Jews has controlled the US elite group. So now whoever want to make friend with US must not act rude to the Jews.
Why we never hear news about red indians fight for independance from the whites, because the whites is smart that they didn't give the red indians chance to go overseas during the massacre.

Singapore government should do something to make this land more memorial, not just money oriented. Who knows if some terrible disaster happen to Singapore in the future... they will come back again.

Wow, this is a totally fresh view for me... Never thought citizen outflow is also a good thing in disguise....
are u studying political science or what...

Recent Posts in 'Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus' | sgForums.com

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by will4 @ Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:01:35 +0800

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by balance_else_complacent @ Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:56:09 +0800

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by redDUST @ Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:25:20 +0800

Emigration Becomes A Business

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Emigration Becomes A Business

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Emigration Becomes A Business

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Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by balance_else_complacent @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:49:28 +0800

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Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:39:32 +0800

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:37:47 +0800

Singapore Brain drain in math terms

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:34:17 +0800

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by will4 @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:09:15 +0800

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by fishbuff @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:50:13 +0800

Everyday,178 FT come to SG

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by eagle @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:22:43 +0800

Everyday,178 FT come to SG

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by justdoit77 @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:42:37 +0800

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by justdoit77 @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:37:12 +0800

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by justdoit77 @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:34:10 +0800

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by lionnoisy @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:27:49 +0800

Everyday,178 FT come to SG

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:28:04 +0800

Everyday, 10 sporeans quit SG for Aus replied by whiskers @ Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:24:13 +0800