When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by Melbournite @ Wed, 07 May 2008 01:21:52 +0800

Melbournite — Wed, 07 May 2008 01:21:52 +0800

Originally posted by xiaoxui:

Aiyah, we must take Hougang as a model- only singaporean workforce. Making sure that singaporean has their rice bowl and not bread for breakfast, lunch, dinner!!!

very true, hougang ...last fontier of a dying race of locals?

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by balance_else_complacent @ Tue, 06 May 2008 21:41:04 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Tue, 06 May 2008 21:41:04 +0800

Originally posted by xiaoxui:

Aiyah, we must take Hougang as a model- only singaporean workforce. Making sure that singaporean has their rice bowl and not bread for breakfast, lunch, dinner!!!

Because HG can! HG Boleh!

Europe Boleh!

Japan Boleh!

S.Korea Boleh!

Actually its a simple thing that rest in the hands of POREANS. so simple.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by xiaoxui @ Tue, 06 May 2008 08:56:49 +0800

xiaoxui — Tue, 06 May 2008 08:56:49 +0800

Aiyah, we must take Hougang as a model- only singaporean workforce. Making sure that singaporean has their rice bowl and not bread for breakfast, lunch, dinner!!!

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by eagle @ Tue, 06 May 2008 00:17:12 +0800

eagle — Tue, 06 May 2008 00:17:12 +0800

ya la, but when 1 million foreigners come into singapore to work, that's a different story

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by Uncle Ver SG @ Tue, 06 May 2008 00:15:02 +0800

Uncle Ver SG — Tue, 06 May 2008 00:15:02 +0800

"this results in greater increase in the economy due to multiplier effect..."

There are better ways of doing that - increasing exports by encouraging entrepeneurship etc.

"When pple stay here or come here to work, there are still a lot of other supporting jobs and niche markets..."

Actually the scope of job creation is quite limited. Really how different is one coffeeshop from another. Job creation is quite limited as there is already existing (high) local demand.

I never forget Warren Buffett's line about GDP - he said that he could get a painter to paint his portrait everyday and that would increase GDP but there is very little utility to such economic activities.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by eagle @ Tue, 06 May 2008 00:05:49 +0800

eagle — Tue, 06 May 2008 00:05:49 +0800

The trickle down effect of jobs are only the people providing food etc amenities and government bureaucrats.

Still got trickle down effect le lor. That's what I meant... When pple stay here or come here to work, there are still a lot of other supporting jobs and niche markets...

PAP not happy of course because the money collected from processing visa, tax etc like you said doesnt go to the government coffers to increase so and so ministers pay and increase number of bureaucrats etc.

Haha... Nice dig at them... But I guess it is more of having more money back into the economy, and this results in greater increase in the economy due to multiplier effect...

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by purpledragon84 @ Mon, 05 May 2008 23:55:36 +0800

purpledragon84 — Mon, 05 May 2008 23:55:36 +0800

Originally posted by Q.C.Pak:

Your dog is a FT...

i seriously misread that and mentally swapped the place of the 2nd and the 5th word..

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by Uncle Ver SG @ Mon, 05 May 2008 23:43:06 +0800

Uncle Ver SG — Mon, 05 May 2008 23:43:06 +0800

"suppose there's any new labour law that restricts FWs in a company now, these companies can morph to outsourcing to India instead... "

The trickle down effect of jobs are only the people providing food etc amenities and government bureaucrats.

There would no difference whatsover in terms of IT jobs - at least the infrastructure of Singapore will be not be overburdened, inflation doesnt increase. I believe Singapore should adopt a FT policy akin to Australia's own FT policy - skills based etc. and be transparent about the whole process and have a SET number of people open to review per year.

PAP not happy of course because the money collected from processing visa, tax etc like you said doesnt go to the government coffers to increase so and so ministers pay and increase number of bureaucrats etc.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by eagle @ Mon, 05 May 2008 23:13:04 +0800

eagle — Mon, 05 May 2008 23:13:04 +0800

I got a army fren working in CrimsonLogic lol

I'm not sure why they do it now. But I'm pretty sure because of that reason, suppose there's any new labour law that restricts FWs in a company now, these companies can morph to outsourcing to India instead... (Again, I said this before but some thick skulled forumer could not accept this fact)

In the end, even the trickle down effect of jobs to locals in those companies would be gone...

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by Q.C.Pak @ Mon, 05 May 2008 23:12:49 +0800

Q.C.Pak — Mon, 05 May 2008 23:12:49 +0800

Your dog is a FT...

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by Uncle Ver SG @ Mon, 05 May 2008 23:09:04 +0800

Uncle Ver SG — Mon, 05 May 2008 23:09:04 +0800

I am thinking from the perspective of a company, not Singapore. Surely if rent and electricity is (so much) more expensive in Singapore, and you are using the same labour base from India, ceterius paribus, wouldnt you outsource to India instead of bringing in workers instead.

I know CrimsonLogic is Singapore Inc's attempt to become a Wipro but seriously you think they can really compete in the long run?

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by eagle @ Mon, 05 May 2008 23:00:15 +0800

eagle — Mon, 05 May 2008 23:00:15 +0800

Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:

IT can be outsourced to India wholesale so why bother bringing IN Indian IT engineers in the first place? Thats what I dont understand. The datacentres can located in India etc. even programmers dont have to leave India etc. PRC IT has a long way to catch up both terms of programming AND English from what I understand.

Why bringing in? As I have already mentioned in another thread to some thick skulled forumer, they are brought in because they can contribute taxes and expenditure to the Sg economy. So the money, instead of being outsourced to India, is spent within the Sg economy.

And that's why they are cheap; to compete with other data centres in India. Only sad thing is, they reduce wages here. Then again, I have also mentioned in another thread that there's no necessity to compete with FWs or FTs head on in areas which you do not have an advantage on; plain dumb to do that.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by eagle @ Mon, 05 May 2008 22:57:14 +0800

eagle — Mon, 05 May 2008 22:57:14 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

Government jobs are available to foreigners unless they are sensitive or involve security issues. If you cannot compete with the PRC workers, try the army.

1) Available to foreigners is not the same as under threat from foreigners.

2) Your 2nd statement is reminiscent of Gazelle's thread

3) PRC's are nothing in my eyes. Neither are doctors.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by Shotgun @ Mon, 05 May 2008 22:57:10 +0800

Shotgun — Mon, 05 May 2008 22:57:10 +0800

Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:

Really. We'll see. Indian specialists are cheaper and in some instances more qualified. I think the ONLY doctors that are safe are highly skilled and experienced surgeons - these are skills that are extremely difficult to replace. And this guy says he can get better pay in higher standard of living countries and he's not there. Excuse me if I am skeptical.

IT can be outsourced to India wholesale so why bother bringing IN Indian IT engineers in the first place? Thats what I dont understand. The datacentres can located in India etc. even programmers dont have to leave India etc. PRC IT has a long way to catch up both terms of programming AND English from what I understand.

Believe me, Indian software engineers are overrated. The good ones have already left for silicon valley. Majority of the ones we get here have such "arcane" knowledge of programming that we'll throw them out after the interview.

Transcript shows profound knowledge in programming... yet cannot create a simple log in.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by ray245 @ Mon, 05 May 2008 22:52:36 +0800

ray245 — Mon, 05 May 2008 22:52:36 +0800

Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:

If oxford mushroom really is a doctor, well I am not sure the language he used in some of his posts is behavior becoming of a doctor. Either he isnt what he says he is, or he really is an arrogant and (I quote from the "great" LKY) complacent prick boasting about his profession while posting anonymously in a political forum.

It's a damn forum where most posters use singlish in their post. The other half use hanyu Pinyin.

What do you expect?

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by Uncle Ver SG @ Mon, 05 May 2008 22:20:13 +0800

Uncle Ver SG — Mon, 05 May 2008 22:20:13 +0800

If oxford mushroom really is a doctor, well I am not sure the language he used in some of his posts is behavior becoming of a doctor. Either he isnt what he says he is, or he really is an arrogant and (I quote from the "great" LKY) complacent prick boasting about his profession while posting anonymously in a political forum.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by Uncle Ver SG @ Mon, 05 May 2008 22:12:05 +0800

Uncle Ver SG — Mon, 05 May 2008 22:12:05 +0800

Really. We'll see. Indian specialists are cheaper and in some instances more qualified. I think the ONLY doctors that are safe are highly skilled and experienced surgeons - these are skills that are extremely difficult to replace. And this guy says he can get better pay in higher standard of living countries and he's not there. Excuse me if I am skeptical.

IT can be outsourced to India wholesale so why bother bringing IN Indian IT engineers in the first place? Thats what I dont understand. The datacentres can located in India etc. even programmers dont have to leave India etc. PRC IT has a long way to catch up both terms of programming AND English from what I understand.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by BadzMaro @ Mon, 05 May 2008 07:09:28 +0800

BadzMaro — Mon, 05 May 2008 07:09:28 +0800

FT's are the Alpha and the Omega. lol

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by maurizio13 @ Mon, 05 May 2008 07:08:27 +0800

maurizio13 — Mon, 05 May 2008 07:08:27 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

As usual, apart from personal atatcks you have no arguments to offer. No wonder foreign workers tend to get the job. They keep their mouth shut and their hands busy, unlike whiners like you.

if i am a whiner, then you most likely be the gas that exudes from the P4P's posterior orifice.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by maurizio13 @ Mon, 05 May 2008 07:04:06 +0800

maurizio13 — Mon, 05 May 2008 07:04:06 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

Government jobs are available to foreigners unless they are sensitive or involve security issues. If you cannot compete with the PRC workers, try the army.

maybe you can explain logically how these foreigners benefit the locals by snatching away their jobs.

that is if you have the aptitude for it, historical evidence has proven that you are not very convincing.

any explanations? or you just going to repeat propaganda from local news media?

most of my exchanges with you result in you taking a hiatus after being cornered.

most notably was your understanding that Hong Kong private hospitals charges more than Singapore public hospitals.

also as interest rates rises, bonds prices rises too.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by maurizio13 @ Mon, 05 May 2008 07:01:09 +0800

maurizio13 — Mon, 05 May 2008 07:01:09 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

As usual, apart from personal atatcks you have no arguments to offer. No wonder foreign workers tend to get the job. They keep their mouth shut and their hands busy, unlike whiners like you.

i learnt from you.

the student has surpassed the master.

looks like you have lost your edge.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by oxford mushroom @ Mon, 05 May 2008 07:00:50 +0800

oxford mushroom — Mon, 05 May 2008 07:00:50 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

Not practically every job. Government jobs or government related jobs are not.

Government jobs are available to foreigners unless they are sensitive or involve security issues. If you cannot compete with the PRC workers, try the army.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by oxford mushroom @ Mon, 05 May 2008 06:58:43 +0800

oxford mushroom — Mon, 05 May 2008 06:58:43 +0800

Originally posted by maurizio13:

we only have the government to thank for stealing Singaporean's job.

so long as we have oxford morons around, guess things will never change.

oops must have been a freudian slip.

As usual, apart from personal atatcks you have no arguments to offer. No wonder foreign workers tend to get the job. They keep their mouth shut and their hands busy, unlike whiners like you.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by oxford mushroom @ Mon, 05 May 2008 06:57:01 +0800

oxford mushroom — Mon, 05 May 2008 06:57:01 +0800

Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:

Many with potential never make it past the interview or even resume filtering stage. but many from overseas are not that talented also but still get the job, denying a local with potential and same resume. So, when a person is not given the chance to even demonstrate his value for money, you cannot say he has no value.

Sour grapes...how do you know foreign workers 'are not that talented'? Employers are not daft. No reason why they will not employ a local when he is asking for the same salary and has the same qualifications and experience as the foreign worker. Fact is: local fresh grads demand more pay than a foreign worker with experience in the job. If you are a fresh grad without previous experience, you must accept lower pay.

Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:

Why industry not advertising for freshies? Because FTs can come anytime and take a job. Many young foreigners from poorer countries long to come here having heard the wonderful news painted for them about a tiny island. If ask them to go europe , they know its too tough to enter. And the expectation there is extremely high. To the USA, its culture shock. Most of these foreigners are not into pop culture or us culture. And then there is the Pore. Just nice. They come bringing their cousins, and then the whole family tree. They can recommend anyone they know to apply for job here.

Nothing to back your claims. Main reason employers (and they are Singaporean employers) prefer foreign workers for some jobs is because the FT can do the job and willing to do it for less. If the local fresh grad is prepared to accept the same pay as the FT, employers will take the local as they would not have to pay the government foreign workers levy. In any case, there is a cap on the number of FT a comapny can employ.

Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:

but there are some fresh locals who get the job as fresh people but this is rare. They get it sometimes because their friends recommend them or they go for same price as foreigners. European IT freshies no need like this. they are still more higher paid.

Exactly so (bold emphasis by me). If fresh local grads are willing to go for the same salary, employers will hire them. No reason to hire a more expensive worker when a cheaper FT can do the job. That is the key: you have to ask yourself whether a FT can do your job for less pay. If so, you will lose that job. This is the real world.

When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen? replied by maurizio13 @ Mon, 05 May 2008 06:54:48 +0800

maurizio13 — Mon, 05 May 2008 06:54:48 +0800

we only have the government to thank for stealing Singaporean's job.

so long as we have oxford morons around, guess things will never change.

oops must have been a freudian slip.

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