Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by dumbdumb! @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:08:14 +0800

dumbdumb! — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:08:14 +0800

i think pastors shouldn't be involved in politics.

you start getting involved with matters of the world, you forget what truely matters.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by ray245 @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:52:37 +0800

ray245 — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:52:37 +0800

Never will.

And if the opposition want to mix religion with politics, I rather vote for the PAP as compared to the opposition party.

Just because the so called mighty and right US do something that singapore does not have, it does not mean we need to follow them. Some singaporeans just want to follow the US blindly, even if some of their policies are worst than singapore. US isn't perfect you know.

Mixing religion with politics is something that singapore should never follow and learn from the US mistakes.

And please don't even use FOXnews as a credible news source. They are one of the most conservative news outloud around.

FOXnews is even more conserative and right wing as compared to the straits times.

My dear fellow singaporeans, just because you dislike the singapore government does not mean other countries is any better than us. Stop looking at the surface of any foreign countries and use it as example for us to follow.

I will not agree to letting religion gain any sort of political influence in singapore..

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by lotus999 @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:47:25 +0800

lotus999 — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:47:25 +0800

Originally posted by Catknight:

After the obama pastor incident that rocked USA hope for a black president and raise the black race position in white america, should pastors just keep quiet and not talk politics?

What if our famous pastors from City harvest and new creation talk race and politics, supporting our opposition party?

you think our govt will allow that to happen?

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by mihiro @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:50:06 +0800

mihiro — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:50:06 +0800

Originally posted by hloc:

Whatever lah - mihiro - you want to think it is a Religion War the US is fighting..... so be it lor.

Your views are your own.... think whatever you want.

I believe in whatever I want..... and that is is a War of Greed. NOT Religion.

Cheers

"I believe in whatever I want..... and that is is a War of Greed. NOT Religion." by telling this and relate back to your pervious post, you are trying to enforce your point of view on me by telling me that it is not Religion war. anyway, watever la, as you have said it.

There is too much conspiracy in regards to the war which we yet to find out, so whether or not it is war on terror, war on religion or whatsoever, there is still no definite conclusion.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by mihiro @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:41:16 +0800

mihiro — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:41:16 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

I don't think so.

If it was religion, Saudi should be the target.

But Saudi is aligned with the USA.

That is not to say there are no people in USA who would support that type of war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UoHfCUBiEM

But their influence over policy is in doubt since they will have to compete with the Saudi influence.

yes, this is exactly the kind of arguement i am looking for, not like someone just saying people "force" their point on view on someone else, when i CLEARLY stated that do not take my word for it.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by hloc @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:18:00 +0800

hloc — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:18:00 +0800

By all means defend Lee Kuan Yew!

In the first place, I support Lee Kuan Yew.

I just want him to die that's all.

Just becuase I want him dead, doesn't mean I don't support him.

Hahaha..... it seems today I learn something new again.... hahaha

Anyway..... have a great Sunday afternoon.....

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:06:40 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:06:40 +0800

"Any defence I could give for LKY.... would sound like propaganda to you".

By all means defend Lee Kuan Yew!

In the first place, I support Lee Kuan Yew.

I just want him to die that's all.

Just becuase I want him dead, doesn't mean I don't support him.

The Tao doesn't take sides;
it gives birth to both good and evil.
The Master doesn't take sides;
she welcomes both saints and sinners.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/lao-tzu/works/tao-te-ching/tao.htm

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by hloc @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:04:38 +0800

hloc — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:04:38 +0800

There must be evidence to support this point of view.

Whats the point..... he have already decided on what he/she wanted to believed in. Anything we could said just sounds like more propaganda to - mihiro - .....

Hahaha..... I think a better example would be "Any defence I could give for LKY.... would sound like propaganda to you".

I have learn when to keep my peace in 'Speakers Corner' long ago...... most are here not to have a debate and/or see others point of views..... but to 'force' their views on you.....

So, let - mihiro - think whatever he/she wanted..... much like how some ppl believe that the Holocaust didn't happen.

Cheers

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:54:34 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:54:34 +0800

Whatever lah - mihiro - you want to think it is a Religion War the US is fighting..... so be it lor

There must be evidence to support this point of view.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by hloc @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:51:42 +0800

hloc — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:51:42 +0800

Whatever lah - mihiro - you want to think it is a Religion War the US is fighting..... so be it lor.

Your views are your own.... think whatever you want.

I believe in whatever I want..... and that is is a War of Greed. NOT Religion.

Cheers

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:37:43 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:37:43 +0800

they are involving in a religion against iraq.....

I don't think so.

If it was religion, Saudi should be the target.

But Saudi is aligned with the USA.

That is not to say there are no people in USA who would support that type of war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UoHfCUBiEM

But their influence over policy is in doubt since they will have to compete with the Saudi influence.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by mihiro @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:30:32 +0800

mihiro — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:30:32 +0800

Originally posted by hloc:

If I were to find you information from the oppsition side..... would it then prove that my views are correct or would you just call it propaganda

Some S'poreans refuse to believe in what Straits Times said..... when most middle easterner will not want to trust news from the West.... and westerner would hardly think that Arab News is fair. So tell me.... is there a News Site where every single person in the World from all National and point of views consider 'Fair' It used to be BBC..... but not even nowadays.....

I'm not here to 'Prove'... or 'Dis-Prove' you...... I got much better things to do in life. I see the War in Iraq as a 1st, a US need to strike out after 911, then change to a War of greed for control over Iraq's oil.... lastly into a War they can't get out without losing face...... But no.... never as a WAR on Religion as you had said.

I'm a freethinker..... so, I need not take side with the West or the East. Some will claim the War is a "WAR on Religion".... while others will said "WAR on Terror".... and both will show you claims and proves on their website and News. So tell me - mihiro - which side is absolutely correct all the time, which side is absolutely IN-correct all the time....

So..... doesn't this already prove my point

Cheers

arrrr wat toking you ??!?!?! you prove nothing by just telling me that " oh, am not standing on any side, i am not too sure since i have no idea which side is absolutely correct".

if i am wrong on stating that it is a war on religion, then so? you cannot just disprove me by telling me that it is never a war on religion because you said so.

lolz.... vomit blood again, your concern is about the "war on religion" when i wasnt talking about that, i am purely stating the fact that chruches in america pay no taxes.

so if news cannot be trusted, documentry cannot be trusted, so do i need to travel all the way to america and get black and white document to prove my point?. sheesh.... black and white cannot be trusted since it might be a fraud .

anyway, if you do not want to believe in anything and simply just doubt, then i have nothing to say :/.

lastly, you said "lastly into a War they can't get out without losing face...... But no.... never as a WAR on Religion as you had said."
i have to doubt your point, since internet contain lots of mis-information, how reliable your source can be?

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:06:23 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:06:23 +0800

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

The Tao doesn't take sides;
it gives birth to both good and evil.
The Master doesn't take sides;
she welcomes both saints and sinners.

The Tao is like a bellows:
it is empty yet infinitely capable.
The more you use it, the more it produces;
the more you talk of it, the less you understand.

Hold on to the center.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/lao-tzu/works/tao-te-ching/tao.htm

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by hloc @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:03:45 +0800

hloc — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:03:45 +0800

ar yes,we all agreed that internet can be both good and bad, but then again, what are u trying to prove here?

regarding to churches in US does not pay taxes is even in the news, news i mean like new york times, NBC and etc.

and i did mentioned to you that i got the information from various resources, Documentry, news and etc, which all proven my point.

and that so sad for my case, you are telling me that i cannot trust the news from NBC,foxnews, late night news and etc =[

lolz, you are trying to disprove me due to the fact that information i got is all false because internet has lots of mis information... arghhh , i want to vomit blood..lolz

If I were to find you information from the oppsition side..... would it then prove that my views are correct or would you just call it propaganda

Some S'poreans refuse to believe in what Straits Times said..... when most middle easterner will not want to trust news from the West.... and westerner would hardly think that Arab News is fair. So tell me.... is there a News Site where every single person in the World from all National and point of views consider 'Fair' It used to be BBC..... but not even nowadays.....

I'm not here to 'Prove'... or 'Dis-Prove' you...... I got much better things to do in life. I see the War in Iraq as a 1st, a US need to strike out after 911, then change to a War of greed for control over Iraq's oil.... lastly into a War they can't get out without losing face...... But no.... never as a WAR on Religion as you had said.

I'm a freethinker..... so, I need not take side with the West or the East. Some will claim the War is a "WAR on Religion".... while others will said "WAR on Terror".... and both will show you claims and proves on their website and News. So tell me - mihiro - which side is absolutely correct all the time, which side is absolutely IN-correct all the time....

So..... doesn't this already prove my point

What you believe in.... very much depends on which side you are on.....

Cheers

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by ray245 @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:56:52 +0800

ray245 — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:56:52 +0800

Agreed!

DO NOT MIX RELIGION WITH POLTICS!

For crying out loud, you think US is a good example of seperation between religion and state?

Let me explain this to anyone who isn't clear about the US. The US is a democracy. Democracy is supposed to represent the interest of the majority. Now, the US also happens to be a country where the majority of the population are supposed to be christians. Where does this leads us, whoever that got elected will try and get approval from the religous community. Thus, religion holds a huge influence in people's day to day life.

On paper, the US is supposed to have a clear seperation between religion and politics. But in reality, religion holds too much power in the US.

I DO NOT want a country where religion text and etc, is accepted as science.

How many of you are even aware of the evolution creationism debate going on in the US? A large population of the US public don't really accept evolution as a reality.

And why should pastors get involved in politics? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't singapore supposed to be a multi-religious society?

If you allow pastors to be in politics, then how about people who are NOT christians? If politics is influenced by pastors, then how is singapore supposed to be fair towards all religion?

I mean come on, the bible canon was shaped by the polticial agenda of the religion leaders as compared to what is really written or approved by god. Holy Crusades was launched in the name of christianity back in the medivial times.

And guess what the crusades is? A war!

In a age where freedom of religion is accepted, we should NEVER EVER allow a religion leader to step into politics.

Never.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:04:10 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:04:10 +0800

Politics is such a smelly and dirty affair, why mix it with religion?

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by robertteh @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:35:11 +0800

robertteh — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:35:11 +0800

Many of you feel the need to be cautious in mixing politics and religion because we the people have been brainwashed into believing such a need to separate the functions of state from religion.

If the government is indeed a good government which looks after the people, practise morality and compassions and citizens are looked after for their basic needs and necessities, will there be such an urgent need for any one to preach such morality and rights of citizesn in the pulpit.

If there is injustice committed against the people resulting in people talking to their pastors of problems caused who is the cause of such problems requiring the intervention of pastors to play a part in putting wrongs to right. If a pastor offers views on the need for government to look after its people instead of pushing all its resposibilities back to them and keeping all the taxes for their own purposes then shouldn't the pastors speak up and correct such wrongs instead of timidly fearing to preach values and correctitude from the pulpit.

So all the issues of government and religions are interconnected and should be scrutinised for rights and wrongs and not simply be treated in such a simplistic manner like pilitics and religions should be separated when in reality they are not separable.

Practising politics and religions at the same time needs a higher level of maturity and it is hoped one day a pastor joining a party is no longer taboo like now.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by mihiro @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:41:46 +0800

mihiro — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:41:46 +0800

Originally posted by hloc:

Bro/Sis..... in the Internet you would find all sort of stuff and theory..... from what really happen in Roswell, Who really kill JFK, Where is Elvis hidding, What happen during 911..... and my least fav, How God Will Be Please If You Kill An Infidel..... etc.

Internet is both a good sourse of information.... and Mis-information.

What you believe in.... very much depends on which side you are on.....

Cheers

ar yes,we all agreed that internet can be both good and bad, but then again, what are u trying to prove here?

regarding to churches in US does not pay taxes is even in the news, news i mean like new york times, NBC and etc.

and i did mentioned to you that i got the information from various resources, Documentry, news and etc, which all proven my point.

and that so sad for my case, you are telling me that i cannot trust the news from NBC,foxnews, late night news and etc =[

lolz, you are trying to disprove me due to the fact that information i got is all false because internet has lots of mis information... arghhh , i want to vomit blood..lolz

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by hloc @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:18:11 +0800

hloc — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:18:11 +0800

yeh Religion war Against Iraq( missed such an important word ...), in other words,religion war.

you might want to dig out information from the web in regards to the war and the conspiracy. I don't think there is such thing as an email from US church leader ordering Bush to attack Iraq, if there is, it will be highly confidential or otherwise it will be the biggest conspiracy ever in the history if it were to happen this way.

the American is paying taxes for the sake of building more churches,funding their religion activities and pay no taxes. Information and resource you are looking for can be found on youtube,documentry,online resource and etc.

Mosque in America o_0?!?! you might want to enlighten me if there is one out there in America.

Everything I said here is what I have seen and heard, basically from online news, documentry, radio and etc. Accuracy wise please do not take my word for it, go ahead and do some research on whatever I said here.

my apologies for u is that I don't think I can provide you the resources since I do not bookmark them or whatsoever, but like I said, there is plenty of them in the internet.

arr anyway, i think is off topic already, anything u can msg me de.

Bro/Sis..... in the Internet you would find all sort of stuff and theory..... from what really happen in Roswell, Who really kill JFK, Where is Elvis hidding, What happen during 911..... and my least fav, How God Will Be Please If You Kill An Infidel..... etc.

Internet is both a good sourse of information.... and Mis-information.

What you believe in.... very much depends on which side you are on.....

Cheers

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Miracles&Prophecies @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:10:12 +0800

Miracles&Prophecies — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:10:12 +0800

Originally posted by sgdiehard:

...

Whether we like LKY or Chiam ST or Chee SJ, keep religions away from politics, and we will continue to enjoy peace. cheers.

Agree totally so LKY even has no right to dominate religious life and religous leaders and their flocks as it is now.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Miracles&Prophecies @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:07:00 +0800

Miracles&Prophecies — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:07:00 +0800

Originally posted by sgdiehard:

What you know is wrong! Pastors in Singapore are not obedient servant of any regime. They know what is politics, what is religion, obviously you don't. So don't bring in the church, the pastors or the flock into your world of politics. You go to church?

Talking about submitting to the will of tyrant, do you pay ERP, CBC, income tax, GST as dictated by the tyrant?

I'm speaking from first hand experience.

I say again even the (most of) flock would go according to tyrant's will rather than to go according to God's law.

Yes I go to church almost never pass on it weekly.

I say again give to caesar what belongs to him. But would you give to caesar what doesn't belong to him?

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by sgdiehard @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:17:35 +0800

sgdiehard — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:17:35 +0800

hei guys, talking about the war in Iraq being a "religious" war by Christian churches in America against Iraq is really out of line with the topic.

Christianity has great influence in America, just like Islam has great influence in the middle eastern countries, in the same way Buddhism has great influence in Thailand and Catholitism in the Philippines. But anything that happens between any of the two countries cannot be inferred as clashes of the religions, or it would be easy for some fanetics to cry out for jihah or holy war.

We need to be able to discern the difference or else we would get into unnecessary disputes or worse, used by politicians for their own agenda.

Whether we like LKY or Chiam ST or Chee SJ, keep religions away from politics, and we will continue to enjoy peace. cheers.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by mihiro @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:25:18 +0800

mihiro — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:25:18 +0800

Originally posted by hloc:

Are you saying that Churches don't have to pay taxes..... but Mosque does Or is a Buddist Temple the one who had to pay Taxes only...... you have any prove

As for - "Religion (war) Against Iraq" - I think that's what you were try to said.....

I'm sure you must have some prove to show us here..... like a email from some US church leader ordering Bush to attack Iraq..... or something like dat.....

yeh Religion war Against Iraq( missed such an important word ...), in other words,religion war.

you might want to dig out information from the web in regards to the war and the conspiracy. I don't think there is such thing as an email from US church leader ordering Bush to attack Iraq, if there is, it will be highly confidential or otherwise it will be the biggest conspiracy ever in the history if it were to happen this way.

the American is paying taxes for the sake of building more churches,funding their religion activities and pay no taxes. Information and resource you are looking for can be found on youtube,documentry,online resource and etc.

Mosque in America o_0?!?! you might want to enlighten me if there is one out there in America.

Everything I said here is what I have seen and heard, basically from online news, documentry, radio and etc. Accuracy wise please do not take my word for it, go ahead and do some research on whatever I said here.

my apologies for u is that I don't think I can provide you the resources since I do not bookmark them or whatsoever, but like I said, there is plenty of them in the internet.

arr anyway, i think is off topic already, anything u can msg me de.

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by youyayu @ Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:17:53 +0800

youyayu — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:17:53 +0800

er? to me its usless.. i was from chc before.... trust me.. kong is also a business man..

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by TooFree @ Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:08:10 +0800

TooFree — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:08:10 +0800

That would risk dividing Singapore into groups instead of achieving integration among Singaporean collectively as a multi-ethnic society.

Beside, there might surfaces 'spillover effect' on the social disharmony as well as political instability and arouse unhappy sentiment among the rest of the religions. I share with Atobe that pastors should not get with state politics but rather restrict to their own Church's Ministries. This is to prevent influencing the leader's judgement in crafting nation policy.

Recent Posts in 'Should our pastors get involve in politics?' | sgForums.com

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by dumbdumb! @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:08:14 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by ray245 @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:52:37 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by lotus999 @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:47:25 +0800

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Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:04:10 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by robertteh @ Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:35:11 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by mihiro @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:41:46 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by hloc @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:18:11 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Miracles&Prophecies @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:10:12 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by Miracles&Prophecies @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:07:00 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by sgdiehard @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:17:35 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by mihiro @ Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:25:18 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by youyayu @ Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:17:53 +0800

Should our pastors get involve in politics? replied by TooFree @ Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:08:10 +0800