USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:26:37 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:26:37 +0800

If there's any nuclear war between NK and USA, it's going to be a very one-sided exchange.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:27:31 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:27:31 +0800

In terms of resources, you must consider that you are not only pitting NK against the Yanks, but SK as well.

USA made some moves in March 2003 to warn North Korea not to make rash moves.

On March 19 2003, it launched joint war games with South Korea to send a message to the North.

South Korea, March 19 (UPI) -- The United States and South Korea kicked off another set of major joint military exercises Wednesday aimed at deterring threats from North Korea.

The 8-day, computer-based command training drill, code-named Reception, Staging, Onward Movement and Integration, coincided with ongoing monthlong joint field exercises of Foal Eagle that run through April 2.

http://nucnews.net/nucnews/2003nn/0303nn/030319nn.htm#035

The next day, March 20 2003, USA launched its invasion of Iraq, having sent a warning via the war games in ROK, telling DPRK not to take advantage of the USA military action in Iraq.

DPRK responds:

KCNA dismisses large-scale U.S. war maneuvers as alarming development

Pyongyang, March 21 (KCNA) -- The large-scale joint military exercises being staged by the U.S. and the South Korean warhawks have created such a tense situation on the Korean Peninsula that a nuclear war may break out there any moment.

What merits a serious attention is that the DPRK targeted saber-rattling is being staged in real earnest, timed to coincide with the U.S. attack on Iraq...

There is a growing danger of the Foal Eagle and Rsoi joint military exercises as the U.S. hurled unusually huge combat forces equipped with sophisticated weapons into the exercises.

They involve hundreds of thousands of troops and various types of modern combat hardware enough to wage a war.

The U.S. has already transferred 24 B-52 and B-1 fighter-bombers to the west pacific region, deployed 6 F-117 stealth fighters, which were in an airforce base in New Mexico state, in South Korea on March 13 and, at the same time, mobilized a wing of F-15 fighters, a backbone of its air force.

What is most serious is that it brought super-size carrier Carl Vinson dubbed "a Golden Eagle" with 80 latest deck-planes on board to a South Korean port on March 14.

The U.S. dispatch of the carrier, the third largest in the U.S. navy, to the Foal Eagle and Rsoi to play a major role there lays bare its operational intention to carry out the largest-ever joint military exercises and threaten and stifle the DPRK by force...

http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2003/200303/news03/22.htm#3

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:13:50 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:13:50 +0800

Pratically can the US fight a two front war? They did such a thing in WW2.

Note that the forces bidded to attack Iraq were a very small portion of their entire military might, and Iraq didn't put up much of a fight at all. It is the current insurgency that is costing them pin pricks of damage. The actual war and invasion actually resulted in very few losses for the Yanks. It is politics, and not the military that is unable to conclude this mess.

But a conventional war caused by a clear enemy with a conventional structure is a lot clearer in terms of politics, and unfortnately for North Korea it is the war that the US Military is best at fighting.

In terms of resources, you must consider that you are not only pitting NK against the Yanks, but SK as well. And unlike the South Vietnamese army, South Korea's military is no slouch and it really remains to be seen if North Korean, facing its own internal issues with famine and the like really want to mess around with the notion of war.

It is in their regime's best interest to cooperate (even if they do so with a lot of reluctance and saber-rattling), and not really to fight.

And pratically as well, it is not in NK's interest to play the nuclear card, because they lack the amount of nukes (if they even have any operational to begin with) to reach MAD with the US, and I seriously think nuking a US city will make the American public scared and call for a pullout, if anything 9/11 proved, is it that the Yanks take things personally, and instead rally behind a cause if they see it's worth it. It's not that they lack the heart for a fight in Iraq, but they see no point in it. But they'll certainly see a NK nuke as a very big point to rally behind.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:05:33 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:05:33 +0800

Nah, Kim Jong II isn't stupid, he has kept his own people and even his own military in a idealogical vacuum. Any attempt to invade South Korea will instantly expose the lie of his regime as the "most advanced and prosperous in the world" to his own people and remove a lot of his own support on the ground. His only option then will then be to be even harsher controls which is just a vicious cycle.

To get an idea of how deluded his people, even his troops are, during their own national day they will broadcast with loudspeakers across the DMZ to South Korean soldiers that they had meat, encouraging them to defect. Apparently they think that South Korea is so poor that they are in an even worse state then them!

Hence he's not dumb, as much as he rattles his sabers he knows that any war will ultimately be his undoing. After all he's comfy now as he is but his regime is really held together with bubblegum and wrapping tape, and it is in his own best interest to keep it that way. North Korean soceity is somewhat like a runaway train, where the entire country is simply made to support the existence of one regime, spending all its resources on the military and the like, but this certainly cannot last forever.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:57:37 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:57:37 +0800

Would be interesting if North Korea attacked USA in March 2003.

USA invaded Iraq on 20th March 2003.

If North Korea attacked USA troops in South Korea on 30th March 2003, that would be tricky for USA.

We can test Rumsfeld's theory.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said yesterday that the United States has the military might to counter the threat of two "axis of evil" states - North Korea and Iraq - simultaneously.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Eddie Lee @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:50:50 +0800

Eddie Lee — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:50:50 +0800

As long as they stay on the shitty side of the 38th parallel. Why would the US want to attack North Korea?
Let the North Koreans bask in their plentiful communist paradise. Uncle Kim has done more damage to his country than any invading army could ever do.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Miracles&Prophecies @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:59:04 +0800

Miracles&Prophecies — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:59:04 +0800

Which part of South east Asia irked the most? Remember you must be specific...Here in Indonesia the newspaper doesn't say anything.

Well they are major powers with nuclear capabilities of course they enjoy the benefit that the small and developing countries of ASEAN doesn't get. That's why they are called superpower...

And who in that specific country that gets irked? Frankly speaking the people in ASEAN countries don't give a damn about these things.

I know I don't and I know my family don't and I know my friends don't and I know the poor people on the street don't either.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:38:33 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:38:33 +0800

I will say the best way is to use money to lure him to open up the country for economy reformation, then slowly they will open for political changes.

Kim Jong Il won't allow that.

DPRK is such a closed and warped society that any sort of importation of foreign economic changes will destabilise his rule.

Again, Kim Jong Il must die before there can be reform.

I still admire Kim Jong Il because he made USA wake up their idea.

USA dare to touch Iraq, but they don't dare to touch North Korea.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:44:18 +0800

jojobeach — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:44:18 +0800

Originally posted by justdoit77:

Get rid of Kim is not that difficult, but to get rid of him while not causing other innocent lifes to be killed is extremely difficult.
I will say the best way is to use money to lure him to open up the country for economy reformation, then slowly they will open for political changes.

Open the country ?

Do you think a corrupt leader like Kim will let the people enjoy economic success ?

He is like a bottomless pit. Money goes in but all pocket by him.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by justdoit77 @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:31:55 +0800

justdoit77 — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:31:55 +0800

Originally posted by jojobeach:

I'd rather ANY country attack DPRK and get rid of that Kim JI.

Get rid of Kim is not that difficult, but to get rid of him while not causing other innocent lifes to be killed is extremely difficult.
I will say the best way is to use money to lure him to open up the country for economy reformation, then slowly they will open for political changes.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:26:00 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:26:00 +0800

Won't be a bad idea if USA attacks DPRK.

I agree with you.

It's about time USA do battle with DPRK.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:21:53 +0800

jojobeach — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:21:53 +0800

I'd rather ANY country attack DPRK and get rid of that Kim JI.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:54:22 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:54:22 +0800

DPRK must have nuclear weapons to deter USA from attacking.

They can attack Iraq, DPRK they also can attack.

DPRK cannot take this risk.

The USA's secret plan to nuke Vietnam, Laos

http://www.atimes.com

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/

Korea: Forgotten Nuclear Threats

http://www.nautilus.org

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:52:45 +0800

jojobeach — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:52:45 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

No nuclear weapons how to fight with USA?

USA invade like Iraq how?

Do you know how Saddam came into power ? And the old Bush's involvement in his rise to power ?

DPRK fight nuclear with USA ? You think China will allow that to happen ?

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:46:44 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:46:44 +0800

But squanders it’s very limited resources developing nuclear weapons is beyond help.

No nuclear weapons how to fight with USA?

USA invade like Iraq how?

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Eddie Lee @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:40:03 +0800

Eddie Lee — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:40:03 +0800

Any aid sent to North Korea will probably only benefit it’s military. While the common people go hungry. Until North Korea has less soldiers and more farmers. I do not advocate sending them one solitary grain of rice. A country that cannot feed itself or even produce it’s own electricity. But squanders it’s very limited resources developing nuclear weapons is beyond help. Helping North Korea is like buying food for a drug addict. So that he can spend his money on more drugs.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Obama @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:01:22 +0800

Obama — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:01:22 +0800

A starving nuclear power. Singapore should help DPRK.

Home > Latest News > Asia
April 16, 2008
UN agency warns of looming N. Korea food crisis
SEOUL – TIME is running out to avert a humanitarian tragedy in North Korea due to acute food shortages, a United Nations (UN) agency warned on Wednesday.
‘The food security situation…is clearly bad and getting worse,’ said Tony Banbury, the World Food Programme’s (WFP) Asia director.

‘It is increasingly likely that external assistance will be urgently required to avert a serious tragedy,’ he said in a statement.

The WFP estimates that over 6.5 million people, out of a population of 23 million, do not have enough to eat. It said the figure would rise unless urgent action is taken.

Mr Banbury called on international donors to increase aid, and urged North Korea to allow aid agencies to check that food is reaching the needy.

South Korean officials said in February that some of Seoul’s rice aid intended for hungry civilians had been diverted to frontline army units.

The hardline communist state suffered famine in the mid- to late 1990s which killed hundreds of thousands. —AFP

http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Asia/...

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by ceecookie @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:01:15 +0800

ceecookie — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:01:15 +0800

Originally posted by 4getmenot:

since when did europe or usa gave a darn about some south east asian forum...

Right-o,i dont know why the United States want to give a damn about a Third World Association/Organisation.

ASEAN - Association of Third World Nations.

So Singapore should be leaving the group liao

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:57:07 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:57:07 +0800

The USA's secret plan to nuke Vietnam, Laos

http://www.atimes.com

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/

Korea: Forgotten Nuclear Threats

http://www.nautilus.org

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:53:25 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:53:25 +0800

True, very true, Kim Jong Il's rule is very harsh.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:01:44 +0800

jojobeach — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:01:44 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

USA want to fuck with North Korea.

They don't even know what sort of opponent they are up against.

They are dealing with Kim Jong Il.

You think who?

He is the most cunning player in the region.

Want to fuck with him, better have some skills also, or he will laugh at you.

Yes.. it is true.. Kim JL is a cunning old fox.

He's screwed over his own people for a long long time.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/341669/1/.html

here's another link.. it's all sad...

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200003/200003140290.html

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:50:08 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:50:08 +0800

USA want to fuck with North Korea.

They don't even know what sort of opponent they are up against.

They are dealing with Kim Jong Il.

You think who?

He is the most cunning player in the region.

Want to fuck with him, better have some skills also, or he will laugh at you.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:43:50 +0800

jojobeach — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:43:50 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

DPRK already gave face to USA in 2003.

During the months January-March 2003, DPRK could have tested nukes, fired long range missiles to disrupt USA propaganda campaign against Iraq and shift the attention to North Korea.

In early March 2003, DPRK made a move against the USA. They send a few fighter jets to confront the USA spy plane.

North Korean Fighters Confront US Spy Plane

http://www.cnsnews.com/

This move was designed to send a warning to the USA to tell them to come to the bargaining table or they will fuck the USA in the backside and sabotage their war against Iraq.

PRC applied a bit of pressure to control DPRK, so DPRK did not make anymore moves in March 2003.

USA happy happy attack Iraq on 20 March 2003.

U.S. launches cruise missiles at Saddam

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/

Kim Jong Il already gave face to USA already, let them attack Iraq smoothly.

If it was me, I would not be that kind to the USA.

I'd agree if North K wasn't so dependent on foreign aids to feed her people and keeping them alive but barely.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/fpbriefs/fpb73.pdf

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:41:52 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:41:52 +0800

...In contrast, North Korea has not only the military power but also the political will to wage total war against the United States.

North Korea has made it clear that it will strike all US targets with all means, if the US mounted military attacks on North Korea.

That North Korea's threat is no bluff can be seen from the aggressive actions taken by North Korea since the Korean War armistice, most recent of which is North Korea's attempt to capture an American spy plane.

In the morning of March 1, 2003, an American RC-132S spy plane, Cobra Ball, took off from a US airbase in Okinawa, and cruised along the East coast of North Korea collecting electronic signals.

The US intelligence suspected that North Korea was about to test a long-range missile and the plane was there to monitor the suspected missile launch.

When the US plane reached a point about 193 km from the coast of North Korea, two MiG-29 and two MiG-21 fighter planes showed up unexpectedly.

The North Korean planes approached within 16 m and signaled the US plane to follow them.

The US pilot refused to follow the command and left the scene posthaste. The US plane was tailed by the hostiles for about 22 min but let the US spy plane go.

There are two key points to be observed here.

First, the hostile planes waited for the US plane at the Uhrang airbase, located about 200 km from the point of air encounter.

They knew that the US plane was coming.

The North Korean planes flew 200 km to intercept the US plane. Did the US plane see them coming?

If it did, why no evasive action? After intercepting the US plane, the hostile planes dogged it for 22 min. Why no American planes for the rescue? The US crew must have informed the base of the danger they were in, but no action was taken by the base.

If Kim Jong Il had given the command, the MiGs would have shot down the US plane and returned to their base before the US could have scrambled war planes.

Second, North Korea intercepted an American spy plane flying 200 km from its coast.

According to the international norm, a nation's territorial air space extends 19 km from its coast line. The US is the exception and claims air space of 370 km from its coast line; any foreign airplane violating this extended air space is challenged or shot down by the US military...

http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:

USA don't even dare to send fighters to confront the DPRK jets.

Scared like a mouse.

Invasion of Iraq two weeks away, where got time and effort to deal with DPRK?

Confront DPRK, start a crisis, Iraq invasion how?

Very shrewd of Kim Jong Il to time his moves at the ripe time.

He is too kind to USA, let them off easily, only send a warning.

He didn't sabotage USA's war against Iraq.

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:24:24 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:24:24 +0800

DPRK already gave face to USA in 2003.

During the months January-March 2003, DPRK could have tested nukes, fired long range missiles to disrupt USA propaganda campaign against Iraq and shift the attention to North Korea.

In early March 2003, DPRK made a move against the USA. They send a few fighter jets to confront the USA spy plane.

North Korean Fighters Confront US Spy Plane

http://www.cnsnews.com/

This move was designed to send a warning to the USA to tell them to come to the bargaining table or they will fuck the USA in the backside and sabotage their war against Iraq.

PRC applied a bit of pressure to control DPRK, so DPRK did not make anymore moves in March 2003.

USA happy happy attack Iraq on 20 March 2003.

U.S. launches cruise missiles at Saddam

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/

Kim Jong Il already gave face to USA already, let them attack Iraq smoothly.

If it was me, I would not be that kind to the USA.

Recent Posts in 'USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia' | sgForums.com

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:26:37 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:27:31 +0800

KCNA dismisses large-scale U.S. war maneuvers as alarming development

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:13:50 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:05:33 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:57:37 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Eddie Lee @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:50:50 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Miracles&Prophecies @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:59:04 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:38:33 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:44:18 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by justdoit77 @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:31:55 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:26:00 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:21:53 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:54:22 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:52:45 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:46:44 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Eddie Lee @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:40:03 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Obama @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:01:22 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by ceecookie @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:01:15 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:57:07 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:53:25 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:01:44 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:50:08 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by jojobeach @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:43:50 +0800

U.S. launches cruise missiles at Saddam

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:41:52 +0800

USA push for new security mechanism irks Southeast Asia replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:24:24 +0800

U.S. launches cruise missiles at Saddam