Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by Mrlimkopi @ Thu, 08 May 2008 16:18:55 +0800

Mrlimkopi — Thu, 08 May 2008 16:18:55 +0800

Originally posted by wilsonhao:

I agree with you that its freaking disgusting to see these people forcing others to convert. On the other hand, take a look at Mother Theresa. She was able to convert many through her kindness and love. She did not force people to convert to her religion too.

Now again, look at the way these people convert. Forcing and condemn people who are not of their religions. You know now who is the saint and who is not.

I agree with you Wilson....Christianity is all about faith, hope and love. Mother Teresa convert by actions - doing what Jesus asked his believers to do. Her actions converted many and she need no rock concert and pep talks to thousands.....

Sadly, many Christians think they are envagelising by doing stupid things in God's name and instead of converting, they turn more people away from Christ.

They do leave many non-believers with the wrong impression of the faith - which is kind of sad.....

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by Shotgun @ Thu, 08 May 2008 16:13:00 +0800

Shotgun — Thu, 08 May 2008 16:13:00 +0800

If freedom has a boundary, then can it truly be freedom? Can you be free when you are tied up at the same time? Very contradictory.

Freedom of speech applies when you speak of something that applies to yourself, and affects yourself.

When you say something that affects others, its something beyond just freedom of speech, it couples the power to influence. That power unfortunately, is not given to everyone. There is a very big difference between freedom and power.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by rokkie @ Thu, 08 May 2008 15:33:25 +0800

rokkie — Thu, 08 May 2008 15:33:25 +0800

freedom must have boundary

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by rokkie @ Thu, 08 May 2008 15:31:37 +0800

rokkie — Thu, 08 May 2008 15:31:37 +0800

they have conflict for long time

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by wilsonhao @ Thu, 08 May 2008 12:06:11 +0800

wilsonhao — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:06:11 +0800

Originally posted by ChiBet:

First of all, I want to start off by saying I am also a member of an evengelist church in Singapore and I am absolutely disgusted at the way some members of the church hold youth evengelistic events in the name of the church.

1 - conducted like an MLM event, using people's greed, peer pressure, guilt to force people to join. visitors contact information recorded, conduct background checks on visitors, hold planning sessions to discuss strategies on how to get a person to convert, specific stategies for each individual person based on the results of the background checks and the person's personality, rehersals to make sure each converting attempt is done without mistakes

2 - bad mouthing other religions/beliefs

3 - giving cash (to Muslims converting to Christianity)

I really hope these people rot in hell, choosing a belief is a choice. I am fine at preaching and trying to convince others that Christianity is the way to go but when people resort to all these low down methods, it really pisses me off

I agree with you that its freaking disgusting to see these people forcing others to convert. On the other hand, take a look at Mother Theresa. She was able to convert many through her kindness and love. She did not force people to convert to her religion too.

Now again, look at the way these people convert. Forcing and condemn people who are not of their religions. You know now who is the saint and who is not.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by oxford mushroom @ Thu, 01 May 2008 09:08:00 +0800

oxford mushroom — Thu, 01 May 2008 09:08:00 +0800

Originally posted by Melbournite:

this is diferent from basic freedom of speech.

Speaking about their religious beliefs is freedom of speech, no? Salman Rushdie made disparaging remarks about prophet Muhammed...some call that his basic freedom of speech. The Danish cartoonist call;ed the prophet a terrorist...many call that basic freedom of speech. The anti-semitic book 'Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion' is a hoax but some argue that it should not be banned because everyone is entitled to free speech, no matter how obnoxious.

What is basic freedom of speech? Who draws the line at the limits? Society does. And those who would live in Singapore must respect the boundaries that Singaporeans have decided for ourselves.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by qlqq9 @ Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:37:16 +0800

qlqq9 — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:37:16 +0800

This serves as a warning to the religious group who is so into getting people to accept their religion and say things to condemn people and other religions.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by Melbournite @ Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:55:04 +0800

Melbournite — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:55:04 +0800

Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

This is why we cannot allow unfettered 'freedom of expression'. We need to come down on those who would disrupt the religious and racial harmony of society, whether it is Muslims preaching militancy, Christians attacking Islam, Buddhists rioting in the streets or gays wishing to promote their lifestyle.

this is diferent from basic freedom of speech.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by oxford mushroom @ Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:15:20 +0800

oxford mushroom — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:15:20 +0800

This is why we cannot allow unfettered 'freedom of expression'. We need to come down on those who would disrupt the religious and racial harmony of society, whether it is Muslims preaching militancy, Christians attacking Islam, Buddhists rioting in the streets or gays wishing to promote their lifestyle.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by Arkansaw @ Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:11:53 +0800

Arkansaw — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:11:53 +0800

Unfortunately, there are symphathizers too, who prefer to focus on realizing their demands with regard to a certain code, and appear reluctant to criticize the couple's actions for what they deserve.

Some of them actually admitted to being receptive to the views as prescribed in the book

http://www.sicarii.net/2008/04/15/singaporean-couple-charged-for-distributing-seditious-evangelism-tract/

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by faroukalhadad @ Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:02:52 +0800

faroukalhadad — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:02:52 +0800

I just thought it's important to know this episode from a Muslim's point of view.

He explains the accusations in the cartoon also

http://muhammad-ridzwan.blogspot.com/2008/04/little-bride.html

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by ChiBet @ Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:42:12 +0800

ChiBet — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:42:12 +0800

Originally posted by reyes:

i think it is better for every religion to respect each other and stop casting badlight of another religion whether directly or indirect hinting.

evangelistic material use to be very rampant in 1990s. i remember to be approached very freq in Bus terminals, MRTS station when i was still in army/ tertiary instituitions. it seem to have stop for sometime.

i am surprise, that it still exist after 911 or JI. this show some ppl are still insensitive to the multi racial society of singapore and cast a badlight on themselves as well as the religion they believe in and others as well.

It is not 'it seem to have stop for sometime', its just that you have grown out of their targeted age group

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by Zarks @ Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:29:30 +0800

Zarks — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:29:30 +0800

atheist is the best

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by reyes @ Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:08:01 +0800

reyes — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:08:01 +0800

i think it is better for every religion to respect each other and stop casting badlight of another religion whether directly or indirect hinting.

evangelistic material use to be very rampant in 1990s. i remember to be approached very freq in Bus terminals, MRTS station when i was still in army/ tertiary instituitions. it seem to have stop for sometime.

i am surprise, that it still exist after 911 or JI. this show some ppl are still insensitive to the multi racial society of singapore and cast a badlight on themselves as well as the religion they believe in and others as well.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by ChiBet @ Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:44:53 +0800

ChiBet — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:44:53 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

I thought this is against the law here?

Stealing is againts the law but there are still so many thiefs around.

The events are held in an enclosed space so no outsiders can hear it.

The attendees are all church members and their friends. Would you report a friend and get them into trouble?

If you are still in your teens and a friend ask you to join their service or cell/care group session, tag along and see what happens. The strategy mentioned is targeted on youth/teen group as this age group is shown to be easily influnenced.

link to the material distributed by the couple: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1054/1054_01.asp - Starhub users may be blocked

Please be advised, do not accuse me of sedition. You are clicking the link to read the material on your own decision so be responsible for your own actions.

I want to make it very clear that I myself is againts using such methods/materials for evengelistic purposes. Even though the material is all true(I came from an Islamic country where the Quran and Hadith is required academic reading), there is no reason to rub it in the face of Muslims.

Quran - Islamic Bible

Hadith - record of Nabi Muhammad S.A.W life

edit - link only viewable for static line users - that means no access for civies

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by pearlie27 @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:25:53 +0800

pearlie27 — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:25:53 +0800

Originally posted by ChiBet:

First of all, I want to start off by saying I am also a member of an evengelist church in Singapore and I am absolutely disgusted at the way some members of the church hold youth evengelistic events in the name of the church.

1 - conducted like an MLM event, using people's greed, peer pressure, guilt to force people to join. visitors contact information recorded, conduct background checks on visitors, hold planning sessions to discuss strategies on how to get a person to convert, specific stategies for each individual person based on the results of the background checks and the person's personality, rehersals to make sure each converting attempt is done without mistakes

2 - bad mouthing other religions/beliefs

3 - giving cash (to Muslims converting to Christianity)

I really hope these people rot in hell, choosing a belief is a choice. I am fine at preaching and trying to convince others that Christianity is the way to go but when people resort to all these low down methods, it really pisses me off

i suspect it could be some of their fellow churchgoers who tipped off the police.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by Gauze @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:02:59 +0800

Gauze — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:02:59 +0800

When I hear that muslims gets off free from kena charged for being "seditious" themselves, I think there is some forgetfulness that there are up to 51 muslims under detained by the ISA.

Originally posted by robertteh:

Given such unequal treatments among religions one wonder in the event say insults were made the other way by the extreme religion against certain meeker religions' prophet will the extremist religion's members be taken to court.

I wonder too. I remember though when Fateha, a fringe muslim group here started sowing their seeds of religious discord, the collective malay/muslim members of parliment & other muslims groups immediately criticized the extremist views expressed and distanced themselves from it.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by caleb_chiang @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:53:07 +0800

caleb_chiang — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:53:07 +0800

Cos SG was MALAYsia back then... and still the balance between races and religion still not equal till now... and they still claim we are SG...

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by yamizi @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:11:30 +0800

yamizi — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:11:30 +0800

Originally posted by googoomuck:

If they dont specifically name the religions that they bad-mouthed, which law have they broken?

I think the couple gave to two muslims a small comic book that has degratory remarks on Islam.

http://mrwangsaysso.blogspot.com/2008/04/tale-of-one-jack-chick-and-two.html

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by googoomuck @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:33:21 +0800

googoomuck — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:33:21 +0800

If they dont specifically name the religions that they bad-mouthed, which law have they broken?

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by yamizi @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:22:55 +0800

yamizi — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:22:55 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

I thought this is against the law here?

SAF '8th rule': Can do anything but don't get caught?

But apparently now someone blew it up liao.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by valentinoo @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:50:51 +0800

valentinoo — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:50:51 +0800

Originally posted by robertteh:

If one is to pass by certain religion places of worship say on Friday one will no doubt come across very often rampant illegal parking outside such places of worship with no actions taken by the traffic police.

On the other hand very often illegal parking outside other religious places are not excused and many similar illegal parking are summoned with traffic fines. An MP to my knowledge even approach one of the religious place to counsel its members not to park illegally along the certain residential areas.

Given such unequal treatments among religions one wonder in the event say insults were made the other way by the extreme religion against certain meeker religions' prophet will the extremist religion's members be taken to court.

It is fair to treat religions on equal footing and not be over-protective of any particular religions. Judging by the way illegal parking was allowed for certain religion and not others certainly there is a concern among citizens that the government does not appear to act fairly so far unless it is a case of citizens being ill informed or mistaken.

its only for 30 mins prayer ok...big deal..ask ur govt build multi storey carpark there.

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:13:19 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:13:19 +0800

2 - bad mouthing other religions/beliefs

I thought this is against the law here?

Couple Charged Under Sedition Act replied by ChiBet @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:52:21 +0800

ChiBet — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:52:21 +0800

First of all, I want to start off by saying I am also a member of an evengelist church in Singapore and I am absolutely disgusted at the way some members of the church hold youth evengelistic events in the name of the church.

1 - conducted like an MLM event, using people's greed, peer pressure, guilt to force people to join. visitors contact information recorded, conduct background checks on visitors, hold planning sessions to discuss strategies on how to get a person to convert, specific stategies for each individual person based on the results of the background checks and the person's personality, rehersals to make sure each converting attempt is done without mistakes