pay S$20.00 in order to do local volunteer work @ Redhill
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Originally posted by cyberr1981:
1) The T-shirt is unnecessary. Why cannot issue something cheaper or re-usable to identify? Are there really so many willing volunteer to identify?? And what morale purpose, care to clarify? What is the morale purpose of wearing a t-shirt when those are WILLING volunteers??2) People are already volunteering, can't the org be generous enough to at least treat them to lunch? Not very nice to charge money for lunch of volunteers, you know.
3) Donations from corporations and donors should be enough to cover equipment. Since there is a steady flow of donations, why is there a need to charge money from volunteers?
t-shirts and peripheral stuff are unnecessary. t-shirt can be sponsored in whole by corporate sponsors if a charitable organization wants to look good. `donating' or `paying' for the t-shirt do not directly benefits the final/intended recipient of the charitable organization is clearly not right. if i was told to buy a t-shirt and the nett proceeds goes to the needy, i will consider, but if i were to pay so i can be `identified' or help create visibility to the organization, then i think it is a load of bull.
lunch and paints, nails, etc. all should be part of the operation costs that is built in to run the activities. otherwise, why don't they `charge' for the paint brush, nails, hammer, sand paper, etc.? it is ludicrous to even `charge' for it as you implied in pt.3.
if all the above are the reasons for the monies that is levied, the organization is either very ineffective or there's something shady going on. today, the spirit of giving should still be done in good faith, but we all need to be `smarter donor' so we are not taken for a ride. unfortunately in singapore, there are (still）many of such organizations that `prey' on the people's good heart.
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Originally posted by eagle:Best rds.
Yong Teck MengNational DirectorI also wonder, how much salary did this Mr Yong (director) draw each year?
Did he travel First Class too, like TT Durian?
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Originally posted by redDUST:
unfortunately in singapore, there are (still）many of such organizations that `prey' on the people's good heart.
It's SUPER easy to make use of kindness as excuse and abuse karma as an "emotional blackmail".see my examples:
1) "What goes round comes around, so better donate now!"
2) "By donating, you accumulate good karma for a better life. Better donate!!"
3) "Be kind, have a good heart, see how pitiful they are, so you better donate!"
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Originally posted by cyberr1981:
It's SUPER easy to make use of kindness as excuse and abuse karma as an "emotional blackmail".see my examples:
1) "What goes round comes around, so better donate now!"
2) "By donating, you accumulate good karma for a better life. Better donate!!"
3) "Be kind, have a good heart, see how pitiful they are, so you better donate!"
it is funny you should mentioned it. i recently donated a sum of money to the kwan-in welfare society(kwc). i think they are one of the more obscure charitable organizations around. they had sent unsolicited mail to my mailbox. when they acknowledged my donation, they sent me a receipt with a small note that says "a benevolent family will be blessed". i have to admit that i `feel good' receiving that note altho' i am not expecting anything. a form of emotional blackmail?
i donate to about 5 charitables on a regular basis but this is the first one that sends a note with the receipt. will i be inclined to donate again to kwc in future? very likely because of their gesture.
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Originally posted by cyberr1981:
1) The T-shirt is unnecessary. Why cannot issue something cheaper or re-usable to identify? Are there really so many willing volunteer to identify?? And what morale purpose, care to clarify? What is the morale purpose of wearing a t-shirt when those are WILLING volunteers??2) People are already volunteering, can't the org be generous enough to at least treat them to lunch? Not very nice to charge money for lunch of volunteers, you know.
3) Donations from corporations and donors should be enough to cover equipment. Since there is a steady flow of donations, why is there a need to charge money from volunteers?
Obviously you have not read properly the posts after that.
The point is not about inefficiency and generosity here now. The point is about whether the $20 has been accounted for. You tell me yourself. Has it been accounted for?
I'm sure you will explain, afterall, you were the one who challenged another forumer
Is the payment of a few hundred dollars accountable?
Why don't you question too those churches why couldn't they have paid for their volunteers' trips as well since they are also doing charity?
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Originally posted by cyberr1981:
Forumers are making deductions and various point of views. You seemed to only expect positive and supportive opinions which is impossible in a forum. Any comments probing, you fired at the forumer.So far, all the points discussed are possible and reasonable. Since the NKF saga, you can't expect people to continue to donate blindly, without asking.
Even the government are encouraging people to raise questions of a charity they find suspicious, so why are you faulting forumers on this?
PS: And, don't keep on using karma to "threaten" or "blackmail" people. Kindness can be done in everyday life to people around us, not necessarily we have to donate money or volunteer to charity.
Allow me to repeat my charge on TS
Remember, you are charging HFH for profitting based on things that they could have done to reduce costs (inefficiency), and not inappropriate and illegal things they have done.
Please explain how the deduction by TS was reasonable. I'm not saying now the points raised are not possible. As you should have read too, I have come to a conclusion with HyperFocal that both parties will have different views.
I'm disagreeing with the irresponsible and unfair deduction that TS is making.
Let me give you my example. Imagine you are doing an event for your company, and you made every participant pay $10 for t-shirts and food. Then people declare that you should have done this and that to reduce the $10 payment. Then finally, they charge your for embezzling funds for yourself based on that "should have done this should have done that". Now you tell me is this deduction on you fair and responsible? This is exactly similar to what TS is doing.
Also, this is not kindness at all. This will, as Uncle Ver Sg has said, indirectly influence volunteers not go volunteer their service for these poor old folks. You tell me whether his unreasonable (unless you can explain how it is reasonable) conclusion will affect these old folks. Yes, what goes around comes around. And I'm talking about making slanderous remarks instead of fair and responsible comments to affect operations.
With all these stated, are you sure you still want to support TS in his conclusion?
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Originally posted by cyberr1981:
I also wonder, how much salary did this Mr Yong (director) draw each year?
Did he travel First Class too, like TT Durian?
So why are you asking me? Go ahead and email them to ask.
Or are also one that will only whine here? I have queries about accountability, so I emailed. If you have questions, you should contact them too.
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Originally posted by cyberr1981:
It's SUPER easy to make use of kindness as excuse and abuse karma as an "emotional blackmail".see my examples:
1) "What goes round comes around, so better donate now!"
2) "By donating, you accumulate good karma for a better life. Better donate!!"
3) "Be kind, have a good heart, see how pitiful they are, so you better donate!"
Your examples are different from TS who stated that HFH is
profit making from needy elderly
Making accusations without proof and proper deductions is tantamount to slandering, and will likely indirectly affect help for these old folks.
And you are doing exactly what TS is doing now. Comparisons with unrelated things.
Example:
Comparing the installation of gold taps (inappropriate behaviour) vs the $20 required for shirt, food and accessories (inefficiency), then concluding HFH is profit making just like NKF -
sum ppl's blains r beri tiny.
u tell dem wt oso no use de.
becoz canot fit anyting in it le.
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Let the "market" decide lah...If people are willing to pay $20 and volunteer then ok loh. If HFH books got anything funny, we can trust the PAP
to do something about it - like find an Ah Neh to be the MAJOR scapegoat. -
why churches did not fund other volunteer for their trip?
what ever reason or explaination? what kind of service learning can be practice in local community?
using local fund raised or donation money for oversea trip! very hard to justify spending.
may be that why church wants you to raise your own fund.
$6.00 for blah blah plus admin? what is admin charge? volunteer your service got admin charge? this is not profit making? what is admin charge ?
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Zaxis you can always highlight these issues in your blog or website if you really feel strongly about it.
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any way event over
may be eagle can After Action Review? what the turn out yesterday? how many unit with bed bud require bed change and fumgation? out of 50 volunteer how many unit covered?
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
Zaxis you can always highlight these issues in your blog or website if you really feel strongly about it.
Yeah, I do want to see him write all those he has written in his blog or website, and publish it.
Zaxis, you think that project management cost means no need to pay for all the electricity, papers, petrol, delivery men (they are not volunteers), phone bills, etc, many many other costs. Even hosting the website, and sending out emails, put costs on the bandwidth. Pretty sure all these costs will exceed $300. You are a little too narrowly focussed that project management cost means paying directly to the organisers, thus think only of profit making. Next thing we know, you will say HFH should host their website on free web hosting services, and utilise free web-based emails too. But this part I understand your viewpoint and concern, especially after the NKF saga.
Then again, the question back to you is, why are you hesitating to email them to ask about it? Still waiting for others to do work for you?
Everything you say so far is only may be this may be that. Then finally with all the may bes and assumptions, you think you have every right to levy a charge on them for profit making.
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Originally posted by zaxis:
any way event over
may be eagle can After Action Review? what the turn out yesterday? how many unit with bed bud require bed change and fumgation? out of 50 volunteer how many unit covered?
Why don't you email them to ask?
Anyway, this is taken from a blog.
There has been so much debate about Habitat For Humanity Singapore charging each Operation Homeworks participants $20 to cover the cost of the event. Hmm… don’t be so calculative la… as long as the way the money is spent is accounted for, let’s not be so calculative.
I am so tired after attending Habitat for Humanity Singapore’s Operation Homework today. The HFH staff had rated the extent of cleaning that each of the house needs on a scale of 1 to 10. 1 being the least cleaning required and 10 for complete cleaning. Our team was assigned to an unit rated 10! Haha….
When we first stepped into the unit, we thought it really doesn’t deserve a grade 10 until I saw this.
The white stuff on the blanket is maggots! And there are more of that, some hardened stains (which we suspect is faeces) and waste at the bottom of the cupboard when we removed all the drawers.
Oh no!!!!!!!
Now we know why it’s given a grade 10! Yes, Cant Bee and I were jumping up and down when we saw the mess. We just had to grit our teeth, bear with the stench to remove the waste and scrub the floor. Luckily we had Magic Kleen.
ok… shall not talk about it anymore as I am still trying hard to erase the images and stench from my mind.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
it is funny you should mentioned it. i recently donated a sum of money to the kwan-in welfare society(kwc). i think they are one of the more obscure charitable organizations around. they had sent unsolicited mail to my mailbox. when they acknowledged my donation, they sent me a receipt with a small note that says "a benevolent family will be blessed". i have to admit that i `feel good' receiving that note altho' i am not expecting anything. a form of emotional blackmail?
Then, if you informed them that you're not going to donate anymore, I wonder what "good" blessings they may send you!So, did you strike toto grp 1 or 2 since you started donating??
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Originally posted by eagle:
Your examples are different from TS who stated that HFH is
Making accusations without proof and proper deductions is tantamount to slandering, and will likely indirectly affect help for these old folks.
And you are doing exactly what TS is doing now. Comparisons with unrelated things.
Example:
Comparing the installation of gold taps (inappropriate behaviour) vs the $20 required for shirt, food and accessories (inefficiency), then concluding HFH is profit making just like NKFIf you bother to open your eyes and read, I was only asking questions and exploring possibilities. Your accusations of me are groundless.
Ok, people are still free to make choices. Both positive and negative points are presented.
Those still want to donate + volunteer, please feel free to do it!! Up to you, no obligations....... Later, just don't regret it and be like those donors who went to NKF to chase back their money donated.
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Credit to go to heaven/nirvana/paradise lah
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Originally posted by Hello Kitty:
sum ppl's blains r beri tiny.
u tell dem wt oso no use de.
becoz canot fit anyting in it le.
The quoted is a personal attack. Forumers, ignore it. -
Originally posted by cyberr1981:
If you bother to open your eyes and read, I was only asking questions and exploring possibilities. Your accusations of me are groundless.
Ok, people are still free to make choices. Both positive and negative points are presented.
Those still want to donate + volunteer, please feel free to do it!! Up to you, no obligations....... Later, just don't regret it and be like those donors who went to NKF to chase back their money donated.
Perhaps I didn't phrase it properly. I'm referring to TS making false accusations, not you.
Whether there's any unaccounted money involved anywhere, we won't know. At least for the $20 paid here, it is accounted for.
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
Credit to go to heaven/nirvana/paradise lah
Let's not make any references to religion/supernatural.We should deal with the topic objectively.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Perhaps I didn't phrase it properly. I'm referring to TS making false accusations, not you.
Whether there's any unaccounted money involved anywhere, we won't know. At least for the $20 paid here, it is accounted for.
Ok, the payment of $20 is accounted for. But are those points accounted for necessary?1) specially-printed T-shirts is a luxury, not of necessity!
2) lunch really cost so much? Which is the actual food?
3) Donations is a steady flow, this portion is not of necessity too.
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Originally posted by cyberr1981:
Ok, the payment of $20 is accounted for. But are those points accounted for necessary?1) specially-printed T-shirts is a luxury, not of necessity!
2) lunch really cost so much? Which is the actual food?
3) Donations is a steady flow, this portion is not of necessity too.
What I would say is
1) Specially printed low quality T-shirts cost around $10 each. Easy identification by the old folks that this is not a "stranger" that is going to harm them or what...
2) lunch say $2.50~$3, plus few bottles of water for each participant; they will sweat a lot a lot just in cleaning up.
3) no comments, but such events are not forced upon you.I agree with you, the fees could be reduced. They could be unnecessary. But fact is that charging the organisation for profit making just because of these "inefficient planning" is totally illogical.
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Originally posted by eagle:
What I would say is
1) Specially printed low quality T-shirts cost around $10 each. Easy identification by the old folks that this is not a "stranger" that is going to harm them or what...
2) lunch say $2.50~$3, plus few bottles of water for each participant; they will sweat a lot a lot just in cleaning up.
3) no comments, but such events are not forced upon you.I agree with you, the fees could be reduced. They could be unnecessary. But fact is that charging the organisation for profit making just because of these "inefficient planning" is totally illogical.
The fees are redundant and the accounting for them are not convincing.
Since you mentioned that the event was inefficiently planned, then they should revised it and not let volunteers pay redundantly for things which were already covered under donations.
Why let volunteers be the receiving end of an inefficiently planned event?
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Originally posted by cyberr1981:
The fees are redundant and the accounting for them are not convincing.
Since you mentioned that the event was inefficiently planned, then they should revised it and not let volunteers pay redundantly for things which were already covered under donations.
Why let volunteers be the receiving end of an inefficiently planned event?
I mentioned "inefficiently planned" in inverted commas because I see it from both in yours and TS's shoes.
To me, it is not really that inefficiently planned. You might as well tell me that them hosting up their website for a fee, or having rented an office space, are redundant expenditures, because they could host free websites or simply operate from home. You might even say fumigation is unnecessary because they can simply find and sweep/pick away the bed bugs.
And to me, the volunteers are not considered as the receiving end; they are on the giving side. Contrary to that, it is the old folks who are at the receiving end. Finally, it is not like you are forced to both give and do. One would have to be willing to both give the donation and do the charity work.