D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by lionnoisy @ Sat, 07 Jun 2008 22:53:30 +0800

lionnoisy — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 22:53:30 +0800

i like this map

http://www.talkingcock.com/html/index.php

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by QX179R @ Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:04:49 +0800

QX179R — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:04:49 +0800

Channel NewsAsia - Saturday, June 7

Sub—committee to oversee joint survey of Pedra Branca, Middle Rocks

SINGAPORE: Singaporean and Malaysian officials met on Tuesday to discuss the implementation of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) judgement on Pedra Branca, Middle Rocks and South Ledge.

The foreign ministers of both countries released a joint statement on Friday, saying that a technical sub—committee will be set up to oversee joint survey works, to prepare for eventual talks on maritime issues in and around that area.

They also agreed that if an incident occurs, humanitarian assistance will be provided by either side, as part of a common aim to ensure safety and security in those waters.

The joint committee representing the two countries also agreed that fishermen on both sides will be allowed to continue with their traditional fishing activities there.

Both sides reiterated their commitment to honour and abide by the ICJ’s judgement, and fully implement its decisions.

The two delegations were led by the Secretary—General of the Malaysian Foreign Affairs Ministry, Rastam Mohd Isa, and Permanent Secretary of Singapore’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Peter Ho.

On May 23, the ICJ awarded sovereignty of Pedra Branca to Singapore, and ownership of Middle Rocks to Malaysia.

The court, however, left the issue of South Ledge open, and said that it should belong to the state in the territorial waters of which it is located. — CNA/ac

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by tripwire @ Wed, 04 Jun 2008 22:11:15 +0800

tripwire — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 22:11:15 +0800

i am sure the indonesians are just as interested... they got a similar score to settle with the malaysians over ligitan and sipadan.

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by QX179R @ Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:51:25 +0800

QX179R — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:51:25 +0800

Law minister surprised if Malaysia finds new evidence to stake claims on Pedra Branca

Law Minister K Shanmugam says he will be surprised if Malaysia is able to produce new evidence to stake its claims on Pedra Branca.

Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of a youth camp today Mr Shanmugam was commenting on suggestions that Malaysia is looking for new evidence.

He said he wasn't quite certain what the legal basis of such suggestions are.

My own view is, you know, the International Court has ruled. Both countries have said that they accept the ruling. I will be surprised as to what this new evidence is. We'll wait to see. Really difficult to comment on newspaper reports.

The International Court of Justice ruled in favour of Singapore in its 28-year sovereignty dispute with Malaysia over Pedra Branca.

But Malaysia's Foreign Minister Rais Yatim reportedly told local newspapers that he has directed his officials to search for new evidence to stake claims on Pedra Branca.

He allegedly claimed that although the court's ruliing was final and not subject to appeal, a specific ruling in the court's rules allowed for a judicial review of a case within ten years if new evidence was found.

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by gary1910 @ Sun, 01 Jun 2008 02:51:48 +0800

gary1910 — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 02:51:48 +0800

Dun worry lah, I think this unilateral change of name means nothing, it is simply sheer stupidity!! LOL

During ICJ ruling, the judges have already given the legal definition for each landmarks:

16. Pedra Branca/Pulau Batu Puteh is a granite island, measuring 137 m long, with an average width of 60 m and covering an area of about 8,560 sq m at low tide. It is situated at the eastern entrance of the Straits of Singapore, at the point where the Straits open up into the South China Sea. Pedra Branca/Pulau Batu Puteh is located at 1° 19' 48" N and 104° 24' 27" E.

As for desciption in ICJ ruling for Middle rocks is "two clusters of small rocks" and South Ledge "is a rock formation only visible at low-tide."

Even when dealing with the 1953 letters, the then Colonial Secretary of Singapore described it as "the rocks" , but in the court view , when giving judgment, it put inverted comma over "the rocks', as if the description is inconsistent with the current rules and regulation.

204. The Singapore letter of 12 June 1953 seeks information about “the rock” as a whole and not simply about the lighthouse......

So the ICJ court has already defined each of them according to int'l laws, so they cannot suka suka change that fact, so do we need to worry!?!LOL

Afterall, just like the ICJ case over Pedra Branca, MY thru 1953 letters and 11 official maps prior to 1979 had already admitted that Padra Branca belongs to SG.

Likewise for the name change,MY prior to the ICJ judgment, MY had thru various official statements to the Press and during the proceedings in ICJ etc, I think at least a hundred times had referred (i.e. admitted) Pedra Branca as an Island!!!

Afterall, I believe there are internationally recognised legal definition of Islands and Rocks just in case for such dispute, especially if there is a difference between an Islands and Rocks regarding territorial seas, then there should be legal definition for Islands and Rocks.

So there is no fxxking chance that this unilateral change of description will have any implication over the negotiation of territorial seas!!!

Those loser is only good at twisting facts, insinuating and produce bogus evidence from a blog, other then that totally no substance!!! Lol

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by 16/f/lonely @ Sat, 31 May 2008 23:15:07 +0800

16/f/lonely — Sat, 31 May 2008 23:15:07 +0800

Originally posted by ^tamago^:

May 27, 2008
Malaysian MPs slam govt for losing Pedra Branca
Parliament debate shows island issue could become a political hot potato
By Carolyn Hong

KUALA LUMPUR - THE 'loss' of Pedra Branca to Singapore became a topic of debate in Parliament yesterday as several MPs expressed unhappiness at the decision of the International Court of Justice (ICJ).

The debate was led by several Johor Members of Parliament, as well as opposition leaders.

The vocal Datuk Puad Zarkashi, an Umno MP from Johor, said Malaysia lost because it failed to archive its historical documents properly.

He lambasted the government for failing to locate a crucial letter from the British colonial government seeking the Johor sultan's permission to build a lighthouse on the island which he described as a key piece of evidence.

'As a Johorean, I am disappointed. We lost, simple as that. I don't believe in the win-win situation as claimed by the government,' he said.

The debate in Parliament came after a weekend of measured response from politicians and the media, and is an indication that the loss of the island could become a political hot potato.

The MPs had been briefed in advance of the ICJ verdict last Friday as the government attempted to moderate the response to the decision, but strong sentiments are beginning to surface.

The opposition has also jumped onto the bandwagon to blame the government for its poor handling of the case.

The opposition Parti Islam SeMalaysia (PAS) in Johor yesterday lodged a police report against former foreign minister Syed Hamid Albar for having been 'careless' in the handling of the case.

'They did not do anything against Singapore when it constructed buildings and a light house on the island,' Johor PAS information chief Mazlan Alimin said.

The party is also planning to table a motion in Parliament today to debate the matter.

Opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim wrote in his blog yesterday that the ICJ decision was a bitter pill, and attacked the Malaysian government for its weak case.

'Malaysians should express their anger and regret at the carelessness, and protest to the Umno and BN-led government, and Attorney-General,' he said.

His wife, Wan Azizah Ismail, an MP from Penang, said in Parliament that Malaysians were saddened by the decision, against which there was no appeal.

Mr Mahfuz Omar, a PAS MP from Kedah, blamed the Attorney-General for failing to advise the government adequately.

Independent MP Ibrahim Ali urged the government to be wary of Singapore, pointing out that the Republic has a water treatment plant in Pulai which was manned by its personnel.

'I have been made to understand that it is big, and if it was to overflow, half of Johor will be flooded,' he said.

Meanwhile, Malaysian analyst Datuk Dr Cheah See Kian was quoted in the Nanyang Siang Pau yesterday as saying that the ICJ decision could have military and strategic significance for Singapore.

He said Pedra Branca was a strategic spot from the military point of view, and that it could even be used as a new naval base.

'Although we are not certain whether there are oilfields around Pedra Branca, Singapore has achieved a historical breakthrough with the verdict,' he said.

lmao.

Harlow......we didn't exactly win either. M'sia still succeeded in leaving a thorn in our hide, leaving room for argument who owns the seas there.

No wonder my uncle at the other side of the causeway always say the same thing about his govt every year: DI NAO! (Pig-brain).

Nobody pointed out to him that pigs are fairly clever though.

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by lionnoisy @ Sat, 31 May 2008 22:54:05 +0800

lionnoisy — Sat, 31 May 2008 22:54:05 +0800

3.Evidences

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Tuesday/Frontpage/2251300/Article/index_html

''2008/05/27

Pulau Pisang won't be another Batu Puteh

OHOR BARU: Pulau Pisang, which has a lighthouse operated by Singapore, will not turn into another Batu Puteh case as Malaysia has sovereignty over the island.''

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Monday/National/2250385/Article/index_html

2008/05/26

Call for joint maritime patrols

JOHOR BARU: Maritime patrols around Pedra Branca and Middle Rocks should be conducted jointly with Singapore as the two features were close to each other, Home Minister Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar said.
 Details of the security arrangement will be worked out by the technical committee set up to study the implications of the International Court of Justice's decision, which ruled that Pedra Branca belonged to Singapore while Malaysia had sovereignty over Middle Rocks.

Syed Hamid said Malaysia would not adopt an aggressive posture by cordoning off the area around Middle Rocks.

"Though Singapore got Batu Puteh, Middle Rocks belongs to us and our fishermen and vessels should not be hindered from going to the area.

"The technical committee must sit down and figure out the security arrangement and navigation in the area," Syed Hamid said.
  Following the decision by the court on Friday, the government said a bilateral technical committee would be formed to draw up the two countries' maritime borders around Pedra Branca and Middle Rocks.

The committee would also determine which country possessed South Ledge, an outcropping southwest of Pedra Branca and Middle Rocks that is only visible at low tide.

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by lionnoisy @ Sat, 31 May 2008 22:51:59 +0800

lionnoisy — Sat, 31 May 2008 22:51:59 +0800

wah!! The drama is just Begun!!!

exclusive economic zones is the cause!

The verdict may creat more troubles.

1.Is Pedra Branca a rock or an island??

Malaysia's Foreign Ministry apparently wants a subtle name change.

It has asked the media on its side of the Causeway to drop the word “Pulau” and stick to “Batu Puteh” or “Pedra Branca” — white rock in Malay and Portuguese respectively.

Alternative news website The Malaysian Insider reported on Monday that checks with two national dailies confirmed such a request.

Singapore, on its part, maintains that Pedra Branca is an island.

Why make a mountain out of what seems a molehill?

One possible reason: the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos) says that islands generate exclusive economic zones but rocks do not.

SG Straits Times senior political correspondent Lydia Lim writes.31.05.2008.

p S10.

http://www.malaysianinsider.com/mni/rough-seas-or-calm-ahead.html

2.See how MY officials did

http://themalaysianinsider.com/mni/pulau-batu-puteh-icj-verdict.html

http://themalaysianinsider.com/mni/pile-of-rocks-or-island-to-experts-this-is-no-trivial-matter.html

KUALA LUMPUR, May 26 — If you take a look at news of Pulau Batu Puteh from today, you may notice something. A subtle name change. The Malaysian Insider learned that there was a request from Wisma Putra – specifically the technical committee set up to study implications of the International Court of Justice’s (ICJ) decision – to refer to Pulau Batu Puteh not as an island.

Essentially, they want it to be referred to as either Batu Puteh or Pedra Branca. A check with the editors of two national dailies confirmed the request. "There is no directive but it was more of a favour ... to not refer to the island as an island," said one of the editors.

He went on to elaborate that since it now belongs to Singapore, the newspaper will now refer to the island as Pedra Branca – the way Singapore has always referred to it. He also noted that it should also not be a problem to refer to the island as Batu Puteh. "Just drop the word pulau ... like the way we refer to Penang or Singapore."

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by Hello Kitty @ Sat, 31 May 2008 15:42:13 +0800

Hello Kitty — Sat, 31 May 2008 15:42:13 +0800

me duno leh. =(

coz me no take train one.

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by Arapahoe @ Fri, 30 May 2008 04:51:06 +0800

Arapahoe — Fri, 30 May 2008 04:51:06 +0800

Originally posted by Hello Kitty:

Hey Where is the Branca MRT Station? More like Kelong Intergrated Resort

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by Hello Kitty @ Thu, 29 May 2008 20:02:46 +0800

Hello Kitty — Thu, 29 May 2008 20:02:46 +0800

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by Atobe @ Tue, 27 May 2008 13:27:15 +0800

Atobe — Tue, 27 May 2008 13:27:15 +0800

Originally posted by ^tamago^:

May 27, 2008
Malaysian MPs slam govt for losing Pedra Branca
Parliament debate shows island issue could become a political hot potato
By Carolyn Hong

KUALA LUMPUR - THE 'loss' of Pedra Branca to Singapore became a topic of debate in Parliament yesterday as several MPs expressed unhappiness at the decision of the International Court of Justice (ICJ).

The debate was led by several Johor Members of Parliament, as well as opposition leaders.

The vocal Datuk Puad Zarkashi, an Umno MP from Johor, said Malaysia lost because it failed to archive its historical documents properly.

He lambasted the government for failing to locate a crucial letter from the British colonial government seeking the Johor sultan's permission to build a lighthouse on the island which he described as a key piece of evidence.

'As a Johorean, I am disappointed. We lost, simple as that. I don't believe in the win-win situation as claimed by the government,' he said.

The debate in Parliament came after a weekend of measured response from politicians and the media, and is an indication that the loss of the island could become a political hot potato.

The MPs had been briefed in advance of the ICJ verdict last Friday as the government attempted to moderate the response to the decision, but strong sentiments are beginning to surface.

The opposition has also jumped onto the bandwagon to blame the government for its poor handling of the case.

The opposition Parti Islam SeMalaysia (PAS) in Johor yesterday lodged a police report against former foreign minister Syed Hamid Albar for having been 'careless' in the handling of the case.

'They did not do anything against Singapore when it constructed buildings and a light house on the island,' Johor PAS information chief Mazlan Alimin said.

The party is also planning to table a motion in Parliament today to debate the matter.

Opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim wrote in his blog yesterday that the ICJ decision was a bitter pill, and attacked the Malaysian government for its weak case.

'Malaysians should express their anger and regret at the carelessness, and protest to the Umno and BN-led government, and Attorney-General,' he said.

His wife, Wan Azizah Ismail, an MP from Penang, said in Parliament that Malaysians were saddened by the decision, against which there was no appeal.

Mr Mahfuz Omar, a PAS MP from Kedah, blamed the Attorney-General for failing to advise the government adequately.

Independent MP Ibrahim Ali urged the government to be wary of Singapore, pointing out that the Republic has a water treatment plant in Pulai which was manned by its personnel.

'I have been made to understand that it is big, and if it was to overflow, half of Johor will be flooded,' he said.

Meanwhile, Malaysian analyst Datuk Dr Cheah See Kian was quoted in the Nanyang Siang Pau yesterday as saying that the ICJ decision could have military and strategic significance for Singapore.

He said Pedra Branca was a strategic spot from the military point of view, and that it could even be used as a new naval base.

'Although we are not certain whether there are oilfields around Pedra Branca, Singapore has achieved a historical breakthrough with the verdict,' he said.

lmao.

The actions was started when Mahathir was PM, and those who led the Malaysian case were also leftovers from the Mahathir hand selected group of cronies and suffering beneficiaries to his patronage scheme.

Is it the fault of the Badawi Government ?

They should continue leaning towards Mahathir, and perhaps Singapore will gain a few more islands.

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by ^tamago^ @ Tue, 27 May 2008 13:10:16 +0800

^tamago^ — Tue, 27 May 2008 13:10:16 +0800

May 27, 2008
Malaysian MPs slam govt for losing Pedra Branca
Parliament debate shows island issue could become a political hot potato
By Carolyn Hong

KUALA LUMPUR - THE 'loss' of Pedra Branca to Singapore became a topic of debate in Parliament yesterday as several MPs expressed unhappiness at the decision of the International Court of Justice (ICJ).

The debate was led by several Johor Members of Parliament, as well as opposition leaders.

The vocal Datuk Puad Zarkashi, an Umno MP from Johor, said Malaysia lost because it failed to archive its historical documents properly.

He lambasted the government for failing to locate a crucial letter from the British colonial government seeking the Johor sultan's permission to build a lighthouse on the island which he described as a key piece of evidence.

'As a Johorean, I am disappointed. We lost, simple as that. I don't believe in the win-win situation as claimed by the government,' he said.

The debate in Parliament came after a weekend of measured response from politicians and the media, and is an indication that the loss of the island could become a political hot potato.

The MPs had been briefed in advance of the ICJ verdict last Friday as the government attempted to moderate the response to the decision, but strong sentiments are beginning to surface.

The opposition has also jumped onto the bandwagon to blame the government for its poor handling of the case.

The opposition Parti Islam SeMalaysia (PAS) in Johor yesterday lodged a police report against former foreign minister Syed Hamid Albar for having been 'careless' in the handling of the case.

'They did not do anything against Singapore when it constructed buildings and a light house on the island,' Johor PAS information chief Mazlan Alimin said.

The party is also planning to table a motion in Parliament today to debate the matter.

Opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim wrote in his blog yesterday that the ICJ decision was a bitter pill, and attacked the Malaysian government for its weak case.

'Malaysians should express their anger and regret at the carelessness, and protest to the Umno and BN-led government, and Attorney-General,' he said.

His wife, Wan Azizah Ismail, an MP from Penang, said in Parliament that Malaysians were saddened by the decision, against which there was no appeal.

Mr Mahfuz Omar, a PAS MP from Kedah, blamed the Attorney-General for failing to advise the government adequately.

Independent MP Ibrahim Ali urged the government to be wary of Singapore, pointing out that the Republic has a water treatment plant in Pulai which was manned by its personnel.

'I have been made to understand that it is big, and if it was to overflow, half of Johor will be flooded,' he said.

Meanwhile, Malaysian analyst Datuk Dr Cheah See Kian was quoted in the Nanyang Siang Pau yesterday as saying that the ICJ decision could have military and strategic significance for Singapore.

He said Pedra Branca was a strategic spot from the military point of view, and that it could even be used as a new naval base.

'Although we are not certain whether there are oilfields around Pedra Branca, Singapore has achieved a historical breakthrough with the verdict,' he said.

lmao.

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by idwar @ Tue, 27 May 2008 13:03:45 +0800

idwar — Tue, 27 May 2008 13:03:45 +0800

This outcrop at South Ledge : Malaysia can station one man on one rock while singapore can station another man on the other rock

Good idea to share...yah?

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by purpledragon84 @ Tue, 27 May 2008 13:02:13 +0800

purpledragon84 — Tue, 27 May 2008 13:02:13 +0800

haha issit?

but if they duno who win den both side oso dunwan to spend money build what lol..

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by Short Ninja @ Tue, 27 May 2008 12:58:25 +0800

Short Ninja — Tue, 27 May 2008 12:58:25 +0800

Japan also got one small rock in the pacific but they keep putting concrete on it to 'keep it afloat' for the sake of fishing territory

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by purpledragon84 @ Tue, 27 May 2008 12:50:01 +0800

purpledragon84 — Tue, 27 May 2008 12:50:01 +0800

seriously man.. arctic melt abit more the islands gone liao.. shud just keep postponing the judgment lol.. let nature do the dirty job..

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by Short Ninja @ Tue, 27 May 2008 12:28:35 +0800

Short Ninja — Tue, 27 May 2008 12:28:35 +0800

I was one of those who thought Singapore would lose but come to think of it Singapore didnt quite win either.

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by Gackt247 @ Tue, 27 May 2008 12:24:15 +0800

Gackt247 — Tue, 27 May 2008 12:24:15 +0800

Can we send one sampan and knock the 2 rocks of the map.. oops.. our waters.

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by rain-coat @ Tue, 27 May 2008 12:22:04 +0800

rain-coat — Tue, 27 May 2008 12:22:04 +0800

Originally posted by hloc:

Big enough to hang a few pair of Dr M's underwear.....

:D:D:D

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by hloc @ Sun, 25 May 2008 19:12:42 +0800

hloc — Sun, 25 May 2008 19:12:42 +0800

Originally posted by idwar:

Singapore got big rock

Malaysia got 2 small balls lan-lan at Middle rocks

Big enough to hang a few pair of Dr M's underwear.....

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by idwar @ Sun, 25 May 2008 18:42:13 +0800

idwar — Sun, 25 May 2008 18:42:13 +0800

Singapore got big rock

Malaysia got 2 small balls lan-lan at Middle rocks

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by hloc @ Sun, 25 May 2008 15:10:52 +0800

hloc — Sun, 25 May 2008 15:10:52 +0800

Good things must share lah.....

S'pore gets 1 big rocks....

Malaysia gets some smaller rocks.....

Indonesia gets the 'disappearing' rock lor......

Not only win-win...... now is Win-Win-Win..... Everyone should be happy now....

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by Fatum @ Sun, 25 May 2008 15:04:07 +0800

Fatum — Sun, 25 May 2008 15:04:07 +0800

just blow it out of the water lor .... simple ....

or we can arrange for an empty oil tanker registered in liberia to ram into south ledge eh ? ...

D-day 23rd may pedra branca replied by gd4u @ Sun, 25 May 2008 14:10:05 +0800

gd4u — Sun, 25 May 2008 14:10:05 +0800

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

Jane's Fighting Ships said SG has not declared the limit of

Exclusive Economic Zone.

So ,pl share more here.

Hmm, according to the Law of the Sea, EEZ extends 200nmi from the baseline of the coastal Island. With that, the nation also have rights to regulate navigation and flights over the EEZ. ...

Anyway, looking at the map, the only extendable area is towards the South China Sea, but i doubt PB can be defined as 'baseline of the coast' ... Me not expert in Maritime law .. ha

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