There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by 16/f/lonely @ Wed, 21 May 2008 23:06:52 +0800

16/f/lonely — Wed, 21 May 2008 23:06:52 +0800

No please.

Failure to build the casino is one thing.

But please don't use my $$ to build the freakin casino and then tell me you lost all (although all gone liao) of it betting on it.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Strangerpasser @ Wed, 21 May 2008 23:02:17 +0800

Strangerpasser — Wed, 21 May 2008 23:02:17 +0800

1 thing all of us have to admit, Our Singapore Government is not smart for no reason. The Casino will not be a failure. Like what Arapahoe has posted the STATS after casinos are built. It really contributed alot in terms of taxes and revenue, new jobs and of coursemaking Singapore even more well known for the RICH AND Famous.

Singapore will be one of the top destination for the rich in Asia and its growing just looking at the number of foreign banks stationed here. They are here for a reason...

Singapore is already home to some 15% of the very rich weathy Indonesian Chinese from INdonesia...and its growing steadily...more and more weathy people are moving into Singapore..

Casino will play a large part and international events

Expect the Casino to be a hit. And yes SIngapore is getting more and more interesting especially rising prices everywhere.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by charlize @ Wed, 21 May 2008 13:20:46 +0800

charlize — Wed, 21 May 2008 13:20:46 +0800

More pole dancing positions created with the start of the casinoes.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by BadzMaro @ Wed, 21 May 2008 11:06:36 +0800

BadzMaro — Wed, 21 May 2008 11:06:36 +0800

I cant wait for the Casino's to be a success..

i just love rubbing dirt on peoples faces.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Chin Eng @ Wed, 21 May 2008 11:00:57 +0800

Chin Eng — Wed, 21 May 2008 11:00:57 +0800

Originally posted by newcomer:

how's ur book andrew?

book? what book???? in some quarters, such products are called vapour ware!

Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:

The possibility that the Singapore casinos might fail, and at least can fail, became a reality with the failure today of one of the oldest and sexiest casinos operating out of Las Vegas, The Tropicana.

another view of the world with tinted glasses..... how about the number of casinos being built in Vegas yearly??? have you really been there? have you spoken to Steve Wynns?

... but your observation is strange - even by your lowly standards - http://www.tropicanalv.com/ - Seems that they are still very much in business...

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by walesa @ Wed, 14 May 2008 11:47:03 +0800

walesa — Wed, 14 May 2008 11:47:03 +0800

Originally posted by Arapahoe:

what forms the basis of your brand of "targetted success" which effectively disputes AndrewPKYap's original statement?

In what way was my targeted success a dispute? In the first place if you are going to draw a point on a pcs of paper and claim that it is outside a circle the 1^st response is where are the lines. That is why I said u got nothing better to do driving aimlessly.

Read below :

ATLANTIC CITY: BEFORE AND AFTER

In 1976, the citizens of New Jersey voted to legalize casino gambling in Atlantic City. It's instructive to compare the promises made during that campaign to the actual benefits seen in the state 30 years later.

Promise: 33,690 new jobs in the state by 1985, including 24,600 in casino hotels
Reality: 44,542 people directly employed by the casinos

Promise: $844 million in new construction by 1985
Reality: $12.4 billion in capital investments by casinos*

Promise: $330 million in new wages by 1985
Reality: Annual payroll of $1.25 billion (includes tips but not benefits)

Promise: $30.3 million in annual casino tax revenue to benefit senior citizens
Reality: $508.78 in tax revenue in 2005 to benefit seniors, disabled, economic revitalization programs

By looking at the numbers in terms of payroll and property the number looks impressive but we can always argue that it fail because only $508.78 gone into tax revenue for social benefit.

so at the end of the day what is the domain of "Hope to Fail" Lies.

what is your targeted success? failure to attract high roller? and foreign visitor? I don't think they were intended to target local Sg. After all most singaporean are mediocre income.

Unless you're hopelessly dyslexic (which you might very well claim to be in a veiled attempt to emerge with any credibility), are you for a moment suggesting the above (in red) actually implies "targeted success" should entail the inclusion of locals in the consumer base of any casino-operating region? Or are you saying the gaming ventures in Singapore should only be successful if they manage to target high rollers and foreign visitors?

Perhaps, (while awaiting your response to the abovementioned) to illustrate your dire lack of logic and how you're effectively driving around aimlessly on your drunken stupor with incoherent sense, you may wish to consider how fallacious your point of putting Genting in the league of Macau/Las Vegas actually is.

If you actually know what you're even talking about, it shouldn't escape your eyes that
Las Vegas and Macau raked in between US$6.5billion and US$6.95billion respectively in 2006 (source : http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aTWqxxBfz_B8&refer=home). Genting, on the other hand, only churned out US$1.89 billion for the same period (source : http://www.hotelsmag.com/articleXml/LN790010216.html). Surely, your rudimentary mathematics can't be suggesting that Genting actually qualifies as being in the same breadth as Las Vegas and Macau with under 1/3 of the revenue generated by the 2 behemoths, can you?

Or am I led to believe your logic dictates the impact of any city/area operating a casino would have an equally significant influence on its industry as your overzealous anecdote "The answer is Life Style. (U forgot to mention Genting.) " would suggest?

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Arapahoe @ Wed, 14 May 2008 06:28:54 +0800

Arapahoe — Wed, 14 May 2008 06:28:54 +0800

Originally posted by walesa:

Having trouble quoting properly?

what forms the basis of your brand of "targetted success" which effectively disputes AndrewPKYap's original statement?

In what way was my targeted success a dispute? In the first place if you are going to draw a point on a pcs of paper and claim that it is outside a circle the 1^st response is where are the lines. That is why I said u got nothing better to do driving aimlessly.

Read below :

ATLANTIC CITY: BEFORE AND AFTER

In 1976, the citizens of New Jersey voted to legalize casino gambling in Atlantic City. It's instructive to compare the promises made during that campaign to the actual benefits seen in the state 30 years later.

Promise: 33,690 new jobs in the state by 1985, including 24,600 in casino hotels
Reality: 44,542 people directly employed by the casinos

Promise: $844 million in new construction by 1985
Reality: $12.4 billion in capital investments by casinos*

Promise: $330 million in new wages by 1985
Reality: Annual payroll of $1.25 billion (includes tips but not benefits)

Promise: $30.3 million in annual casino tax revenue to benefit senior citizens
Reality: $508.78 in tax revenue in 2005 to benefit seniors, disabled, economic revitalization programs

By looking at the numbers in terms of payroll and property the number looks impressive but we can always argue that it fail because only $508.78 gone into tax revenue for social benefit.

so at the end of the day what is the domain of "Hope to Fail" Lies.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by walesa @ Tue, 13 May 2008 07:21:07 +0800

walesa — Tue, 13 May 2008 07:21:07 +0800

Originally posted by Arapahoe:

Having trouble quoting properly?

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Arapahoe @ Tue, 13 May 2008 07:00:00 +0800

Arapahoe — Tue, 13 May 2008 07:00:00 +0800

Originally posted by walesa:

Driving around aimlessly? Are you still on your drunken stupor driving around US or is that another figment of your imagination?

It's precisely they don't throw the dice that they don't wake up being as mindless as you to suggest "they were not intended to target the local sg" - are you dense or is it simply lost on you that, by the law of averages, the median income group of the native inhabitants and residents anywhere would actually be "mediocre"? By the same token, are you for a moment suggesting LV Sands haven't done their maths and that they actually expect this to be a futile venture having effectively pumped billions into the project?

Or is it actually rocket science that you've just figured that the casinos will inevitably have a substantially significant impact on the local population? Are you so hopelessly dyslexic that you can't comprehend the fact that casinos will still have a significant impact on the local community even if they didn't exclusively target locals?

So if you're going to agree with me that the bulk of the revenue churned out by the casino operators in Las Vegas actually comes from American coffers, what forms the basis of your brand of "targetted success" which effectively disputes AndrewPKYap's original statement? If your logic is anything to go by, what you're suggesting is no different from advocating the staking of your mortgage on Ron Paul to win the 2008 Presidential elections.

As for your other garb about Genting being a gaming hub (for ease of comprehension, you may wish to note that hardly every city that runs a casino has a gaming industry of the stature that would run the Las Vegas and Macaus close), which planet do you live on? Maybe it is for a deluded vegabond who hasn't set foot on shores beyond this nanny state. Maybe you'd like to show me the "lifestyles" that suggest Genting actually churns out gaming revenues in the league of Macau?

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by walesa @ Tue, 13 May 2008 03:57:26 +0800

walesa — Tue, 13 May 2008 03:57:26 +0800

Originally posted by Arapahoe:

Why? you got nothing to do?

What has the "targeted success" got anything to do with the viability of the IRs?

What do you think? you drive around aimlessly? I don’t think so. Do you think they throw the dice and hope it lands on your bet? I don’t think so either.

By your logic, does that suggest Las Vegas generate the bulk of its gaming revenue from non-Americans?

By your logic Hiliary would have won and be the nominated candidates already. In the first place Vegas gambling revenue attract from Out of STATE residents. Not from Nevada residents.

If you can;t figure the rest just do your math.

why would the "global gamblers" or high rollers bother coming here when Macau, Las Vegas and Monaco are far more attractive destinations (in their respective regions/continents) for their endeavours?

The answer is Life Style. (U forgot to mention Genting.)

Driving around aimlessly? Are you still on your drunken stupor driving around US or is that another figment of your imagination?

It's precisely they don't throw the dice that they don't wake up being as mindless as you to suggest "they were not intended to target the local sg" - are you dense or is it simply lost on you that, by the law of averages, the median income group of the native inhabitants and residents anywhere would actually be "mediocre"? By the same token, are you for a moment suggesting LV Sands haven't done their maths and that they actually expect this to be a futile venture having effectively pumped billions into the project?

Or is it actually rocket science that you've just figured that the casinos will inevitably have a substantially significant impact on the local population? Are you so hopelessly dyslexic that you can't comprehend the fact that casinos will still have a significant impact on the local community even if they didn't exclusively target locals?

So if you're going to agree with me that the bulk of the revenue churned out by the casino operators in Las Vegas actually comes from American coffers, what forms the basis of your brand of "targetted success" which effectively disputes AndrewPKYap's original statement? If your logic is anything to go by, what you're suggesting is no different from advocating the staking of your mortgage on Ron Paul to win the 2008 Presidential elections.

As for your other garb about Genting being a gaming hub (for ease of comprehension, you may wish to note that hardly every city that runs a casino has a gaming industry of the stature that would run the Las Vegas and Macaus close), which planet do you live on? Maybe it is for a deluded vegabond who hasn't set foot on shores beyond this nanny state. Maybe you'd like to show me the "lifestyles" that suggest Genting actually churns out gaming revenues in the league of Macau?

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Arapahoe @ Tue, 13 May 2008 01:29:52 +0800

Arapahoe — Tue, 13 May 2008 01:29:52 +0800

Originally posted by walesa:

What has the "targeted success" got anything to do with the viability of the IRs? As for the part in red, are you deluded or simply living in your own world? After all, which country/city (regardless of the presence of a gaming culture) doesn't have "most" of its inhabitants being hardly the most opulent folks? By your logic, does that suggest Las Vegas generate the bulk of its gaming revenue from non-Americans? Or for that matter, does Macau not generate its gaming revenue from folks who are neither Macanese, Hongkongers nor Chinese nationals?

More importantly, why would the "global gamblers" or high rollers bother coming here when Macau, Las Vegas and Monaco are far more attractive destinations (in their respective regions/continents) for their endeavours?

Why? you got nothing to do?

What has the "targeted success" got anything to do with the viability of the IRs?

What do you think? you drive around aimlessly? I don’t think so. Do you think they throw the dice and hope it lands on your bet? I don’t think so either.

By your logic, does that suggest Las Vegas generate the bulk of its gaming revenue from non-Americans?

By your logic Hiliary would have won and be the nominated candidates already. In the first place Vegas gambling revenue attract from Out of STATE residents. Not from Nevada residents.

If you can;t figure the rest just do your math.

why would the "global gamblers" or high rollers bother coming here when Macau, Las Vegas and Monaco are far more attractive destinations (in their respective regions/continents) for their endeavours?

The answer is Life Style. (U forgot to mention Genting.)

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by walesa @ Mon, 12 May 2008 05:52:26 +0800

walesa — Mon, 12 May 2008 05:52:26 +0800

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

Are u sure 'No casino' is the perfect policy?There are many low educated

and high aged people need jobs created by casions.

In this world ,u just have to choose the less evil policy ,dear!!

2.If there is any one telling u that this or that is perfect policy,

they just treat u a new born baby.

Nowadays,a 3 year old is very smart alreday!!

Are you trying hard to shoot yourself in the foot in another feebly desperate attempt to glorify this regime?

So if "No Casino" isn't the perfect policy, was this regime's plan to reverse a long-standing policy of banning casinos any more perfect? More specifically, which side of the fence would you like to sit on and which is a "more perfect" policy in your view - with or without casinos?

Or is this another faux pas of yours that typically characterizes this regime's ineptitude in eternally reversing dubiously senseless policies (be they dealing with the population or casinos) ?

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by walesa @ Mon, 12 May 2008 05:46:22 +0800

walesa — Mon, 12 May 2008 05:46:22 +0800

Originally posted by Arapahoe:

what is your targeted success? failure to attract high roller? and foreign visitor? I don't think they were intended to target local Sg. After all most singaporean are mediocre income.

I also don't think there is a lack of global gambler. Particularly in the chinese community given that the idea of "Luck" n "Energy" is so ingrain within our pysche.

those old casino along Vegas strip had a hard time competiting because the newly built casino are mega size with plenty of purge and entertainment.

What has the "targeted success" got anything to do with the viability of the IRs? As for the part in red, are you deluded or simply living in your own world? After all, which country/city (regardless of the presence of a gaming culture) doesn't have "most" of its inhabitants being hardly the most opulent folks? By your logic, does that suggest Las Vegas generate the bulk of its gaming revenue from non-Americans? Or for that matter, does Macau not generate its gaming revenue from folks who are neither Macanese, Hongkongers nor Chinese nationals?

More importantly, why would the "global gamblers" or high rollers bother coming here when Macau, Las Vegas and Monaco are far more attractive destinations (in their respective regions/continents) for their endeavours?

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by reyes @ Mon, 12 May 2008 01:58:49 +0800

reyes — Mon, 12 May 2008 01:58:49 +0800

las vegas are showing sign of weakness due to the subprime effect.

IR will create some hype in the first few years. thereafter, i am not sure.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by redDUST @ Sun, 11 May 2008 22:17:55 +0800

redDUST — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:17:55 +0800

Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:

"maybe it is just a small part of it"

Impossible when two casino (not theme park) operators are in charge. Theme parks etc dont make money its the casino. They dont spend so much money in order to lose money.

It is possible either Casino A or Casino B fails resulting in takeover.

More interesting to know whether Singaporeans will be the majority workforce in these casinos since PAP never say that they include that stipulation.

the cynical part in me also tells me that there is no room for 2 casinos in singapore. the positioning of it will be important. one needs to cater to high rollers and the other, to more mass market. genting should cater to the latter. if both wants to attract the hi-end market, i think one will need to give.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by redDUST @ Sun, 11 May 2008 22:12:39 +0800

redDUST — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:12:39 +0800

Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:

I am speaking a fact when I say most if not all of the time,

Job creation is presented as a lump sum, gross, grand total that consists of anyone with a job and this means all foreigners occupying a job created in the pore, instead of citizens figures and such figures are rarely if ever shown clearly.

Thus, I would not be surprised if the same way is reported about jobs created by the Casinos.

Personally, I feel that its nicer to show the total job creation rather than how many jobs or percentage of the jobs went to citizens. That is, if I am working for MOM.

So, they are very honest but if no one demands for the figures, then, the status will be quo. I do not expect someone else like parli menti bombastics to help me voice this. I have to do this myself. After all this is uniquely the PORE. Young democracy. Learning.

I have fought hard for the answers on the cyber arena, accepting bombardments from countless whities puppies and some like kanawave and oxyfordymushyroomy and some like lion-no-s and others who have changed their net IDs. Observe the way they write, so predicatable. just like ...

lu kong simi-lan? wa jin-eh liak bo kiu leh......

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by balance_else_complacent @ Sun, 11 May 2008 22:07:56 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:07:56 +0800

I am speaking a fact when I say most if not all of the time,

Job creation is presented as a lump sum, gross, grand total that consists of anyone with a job and this means all foreigners occupying a job created in the pore, instead of citizens figures and such figures are rarely if ever shown clearly.

Thus, I would not be surprised if the same way is reported about jobs created by the Casinos.

Personally, I feel that its nicer to show the total job creation rather than how many jobs or percentage of the jobs went to citizens. That is, if I am working for MOM.

So, they are very honest but if no one demands for the figures, then, the status will be quo. I do not expect someone else like parli menti bombastics to help me voice this. I have to do this myself. After all this is uniquely the PORE. Young democracy. Learning.

I have fought hard for the answers on the cyber arena, accepting bombardments from countless whities puppies and some like kanawave and oxyfordymushyroomy and some like lion-no-s and others who have changed their net IDs. Observe the way they write, so predicatable. just like ...

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Uncle Ver SG @ Sun, 11 May 2008 18:40:04 +0800

Uncle Ver SG — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:40:04 +0800

"maybe it is just a small part of it"

Impossible when two casino (not theme park) operators are in charge. Theme parks etc dont make money its the casino. They dont spend so much money in order to lose money.

It is possible either Casino A or Casino B fails resulting in takeover.

More interesting to know whether Singaporeans will be the majority workforce in these casinos since PAP never say that they include that stipulation.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Meat Pao @ Sun, 11 May 2008 13:15:21 +0800

Meat Pao — Sun, 11 May 2008 13:15:21 +0800

In my opinion casinos shouldnt be built, Toto shouldnt be made, and prostitution shouldnt be legal.

Even underground illegal activity wont be as bad compared to open legalization.

But no choice, society is moving, more secular, more money-minded. What to do?

Casinos fail in Singapore? As in going bankrupt? I think very unlikely. They have enough tourists/ travellers, and some domestic market.

But maybe I am wrong also to emphasize so much on casinos, maybe it is just a small part of it, and more activities will be on restaurants, hotels, theme park, etc.

Meat Pao.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by balance_else_complacent @ Sun, 11 May 2008 10:34:05 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Sun, 11 May 2008 10:34:05 +0800

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

There is no good policy,man.There is only BEST policy!!

Every policy come with good and bad points.U tell me 1000

points of this side of the coin,other can tell u 1001 points of the other sides.

U guys just looking for perfect policy,from your point of views.

Are u sure 'No casino' is the perfect policy?There are many low educated

and high aged people need jobs created by casions.

In this world ,u just have to choose the less evil policy ,dear!!

2.If there is any one telling u that this or that is perfect policy,

they just treat u a new born baby.

Nowadays,a 3 year old is very smart alreday!!

3.BTW,how u define fail?we cant talk if we dunt know the meaning ,right?

4.Thans for ST telling me the secret!!

Its really just about BOLEH or TAK BOLEH only.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Arapahoe @ Sun, 11 May 2008 01:56:21 +0800

Arapahoe — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:56:21 +0800

i think the IR will only extend tourist staying in SG by another 1 day or half a day.

Saw a documentaries on the average Vegas Strip take about 20% cut from customer.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by I-like-flings(m) @ Sat, 10 May 2008 22:19:06 +0800

I-like-flings(m) — Sat, 10 May 2008 22:19:06 +0800

Originally posted by Daddy!!:

many super rich are based in china and these people will not want private bankers go to them at their homes.

those are not the super rich i am talking about.. this china one will go macau only lah..... and they are not rich compare to those i am talking about..

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Daddy!! @ Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:37 +0800

Daddy!! — Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:37 +0800

many super rich are based in china and these people will not want private bankers go to them at their homes.

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by I-like-flings(m) @ Sat, 10 May 2008 20:57:28 +0800

I-like-flings(m) — Sat, 10 May 2008 20:57:28 +0800

there's a group of super rich that prefer sg as it's owned and control by their good fren Lee family.......never ignore this group.... they got alot of money that need to be washed clean......v

There is hope the casinos in Singapore might fail! replied by Uncle Ver SG @ Sat, 10 May 2008 20:54:35 +0800

Uncle Ver SG — Sat, 10 May 2008 20:54:35 +0800

"In short, they come here to meet their private bankers in singapore, enjoy their time in the IR and then go back home."

Their private bankers go to them, not the other way around.

Probably ONE of the casinos will fail due to cannabalization. I dont understand typical KS mentality...

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