LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by Uncle Ver SG @ Sat, 10 May 2008 20:36:49 +0800

Uncle Ver SG — Sat, 10 May 2008 20:36:49 +0800

"out of thesis comes synthesis - thesis, anti-major premise, anti-premise, synthesis, so we progress..."

Wikipedia: Hegelian Dialetics.

Karl Popper.

From wikipedia:

"In chapter 12 of volume 2 of The Open Society and Its Enemies (1944; 5th rev. ed., 1966) Popper unleashed a famous attack on Hegelian dialectics, in which he held Hegel's thought (unjustly, in the view of some philosophers, such as Walter Kaufmann,^[37]) was to some degree responsible for facilitating the rise of fascism in Europe by encouraging and justifying irrationalism. In section 17 of his 1961 "addenda" to The Open Society, entitled "Facts, Standards, and Truth: A Further Criticism of Relativism," Popper refused to moderate his criticism of the Hegelian dialectic, arguing that it "played a major role in the downfall of the liberal movement in Germany,. . . by contributing to historicism and to an identification of might and right, encouraged totalitarian modes of thought. . . . [and] undermined and eventually lowered the traditional standards of intellectual responsibility and honesty" (The Open Society and Its Enemies, 5th rev. ed., vol. 2 [Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1966], p. 395)."

In The Open Society and Its Enemies, Popper developed a critique of historicism and a defense of the open society, liberal democracy. The book comes in two volumes, volume one subtitled "The Spell of Plato"^[1], and volume two, "The High Tide of Prophecy: Hegel, Marx, and the Aftermath"^[2]

The subtitle of the first volume is also its central premise — namely, that most Plato interpreters through the ages have been seduced by his greatness. In so doing, Popper argues, they have taken his political philosophy as a benign idyll, rather than as it should be seen: a horrific totalitarian nightmare of deceit, violence, master-race rhetoric, and eugenics..."

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by rokkie @ Sat, 10 May 2008 13:53:18 +0800

rokkie — Sat, 10 May 2008 13:53:18 +0800

Originally posted by domonkassyu:

you want o know the situation in singapore??

our current situation is exactly like a mmorpg im playing. its called silkroadonline. great game but lousy management.

singapore is small with no resourses including the so call "only resources are humans" due to the primitive education system, singaporeans has grown to be nothing but exams machines. always in a state of denial that they are the top brass and all others are lesser humans. always in their own view from the bottom of the well. so the govt intervene and try to bring in foreign talents. more often than not, the talents they bring in are gabages in their own country. (read stamford raffles. what was he doing again in england again??) many of these talents sap on what little honest work locals can give and cash in that credit. sounds just like a certain someone that is in power i would say. It is nigh time for a major change in the little island governmental powers. one of our "founding fathers" gave singapore democracy. yet he took it away once he came to power for he has tasted power.

but be glad that that founding father will die in 2009 as he prophesize his own death in response to a certain macau top brass. only over his dead body will singapore have casinos.

more often than not, the talents they bring in are gabages in their own country.

============================

as a matter of fact,most of them are skill.Take a look at NUS ,NTU,

the engineering school.Most of PHD,and master are FT,indian or prc

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by balance_else_complacent @ Sat, 10 May 2008 09:25:20 +0800

balance_else_complacent — Sat, 10 May 2008 09:25:20 +0800

Originally posted by Atobe:

Was it LKY who did so much good for Singapore, or was it his 1957 team - Dr Toh Chin Chye, Dr Goh Keng Swee, S. Rajaratnam and others - that did all the good by supporting and choosing him to be their mouthpiece ?

.............................

A leader who truely got my vote was the late honarable president Ong . He insisted on having MRT and this is the only traffic congestion buster I know and believe it will be the ultimate solution.

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by domonkassyu @ Sat, 10 May 2008 09:19:13 +0800

domonkassyu — Sat, 10 May 2008 09:19:13 +0800

"But we either believe in democracy or we not. If we do, then, we must say categorically, without qualification, that no restraint from the any democratic processes, other than by the ordinary law of the land, should be allowed... If you believe in democracy, you must believe in it unconditionally. If you believe that men should be free, then, they should have the right of free association, of free speech, of free publication. Then, no law should permit those democratic processes to be set at nought, and no excuse, whether of security, should allow a government to be deterred from doing what it knows to right, and what it must know to be right... "- Lee Kuan Yew, Legislative Assembly Debates April 27, 1955

What were the Jehovah’s Witnesses being charged with again?? Cultism? (Free religion??) Possession of obscene material when they are carrying the bible?(free publication??) Charged in DB when they believe free men don’t need wars? (Men should be free) Denied the right to build even a single worshipping place when the Constitute everyone has the right to worship or have their worship grounds? (Free religion??)

Come again??

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by domonkassyu @ Sat, 10 May 2008 09:09:26 +0800

domonkassyu — Sat, 10 May 2008 09:09:26 +0800

you want o know the situation in singapore??

our current situation is exactly like a mmorpg im playing. its called silkroadonline. great game but lousy management.

singapore is small with no resourses including the so call "only resources are humans" due to the primitive education system, singaporeans has grown to be nothing but exams machines. always in a state of denial that they are the top brass and all others are lesser humans. always in their own view from the bottom of the well. so the govt intervene and try to bring in foreign talents. more often than not, the talents they bring in are gabages in their own country. (read stamford raffles. what was he doing again in england again??) many of these talents sap on what little honest work locals can give and cash in that credit. sounds just like a certain someone that is in power i would say. It is nigh time for a major change in the little island governmental powers. one of our "founding fathers" gave singapore democracy. yet he took it away once he came to power for he has tasted power.

but be glad that that founding father will die in 2009 as he prophesize his own death in response to a certain macau top brass. only over his dead body will singapore have casinos.

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by HyperFocal @ Sat, 10 May 2008 06:39:13 +0800

HyperFocal — Sat, 10 May 2008 06:39:13 +0800

... so some of yous percieved that he has done good... yes, he has done some good, no denying that...

... but to date, this country is becoming less and less like a country... it is more like a huge Sweat Shop...

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by Atobe @ Sat, 10 May 2008 00:41:49 +0800

Atobe — Sat, 10 May 2008 00:41:49 +0800

Originally posted by escadaraindrops:

this is a bias point of view. LKY did do much good for Singapore. Ask yourself, if he was not a good leader, how can Singapore be what it is today. Also, for Singaporeans to support him all the way from when we gained independance to now shows something good about him!

Was it LKY who did so much good for Singapore, or was it his 1957 team - Dr Toh Chin Chye, Dr Goh Keng Swee, S. Rajaratnam and others - that did all the good by supporting and choosing him to be their mouthpiece ?

Was it LKY or the generation from the 1930s and 1940s, who were then already in their 20s in the 1950s and made the sacrifices by believing in the speeches that LKY gave when he started out in politics under the Colonial Government ?

If at all, LKY misled Singaporeans into believing him when he sought independence from Colonial Rule only to see an autocratic goverment making the Colonial Laws even tougher to control Singaporeans -

"If we are to survive as a free democracy, then we must be prepared, in principle, to concede to our enemies - even those who do not subscribe to our views - as much(sic)constitutional rights as you concede yourself." - Lee Kuan Yew Legislative Assembly Debates Sept 21, 1955

"But we either believe in democracy or we not. If we do, then, we must say categorically, without qualification, that no restraint from the any democratic processes, other than by the ordinary law of the land, should be allowed... If you believe in democracy, you must believe in it unconditionally. If you believe that men should be free, then, they should have the right of free association, of free speech, of free publication. Then, no law should permit those democratic processes to be set at nought, and no excuse, whether of security, should allow a government to be deterred from doing what it knows to right, and what it must know to be right... "- Lee Kuan Yew, Legislative Assembly Debates April 27, 1955

Singaporeans were misled into joining Malaysia in a Referendum that did not give Singaporeans any real alternative not to join Malaysia - as the three choices reflected the different conditions to join Malaysia.

LKY also misled Tunku Abdul Rahman to accept Singapore into the Federation of Malaya, and to pacify the Tunku from having Singapore's entry upseting the ethnic balance in Malaya - it was LKY's idea to create the Federarion of Malaysia that included Peninsular Malaya with Singapore and the States of Sarawak, Brunei and British North Borneo {changed to Sabah later}.

It was LKY's reaction to the Ultra Malay UMNO Politicians from Peninsular Malaysia that exacerbated a fragile relationship between himself and the Tunku, which was made worst by LKY's decision to have Malayan born Devan Nair create a DAP to promote LKY's concept of a Malaysian Malaysia in the image of the Singapore style of equality for every ethnic group.

This decision to enter the Politics in Peninsular Malaysia was against the agreement between the Tunku and LKY that Singaporean politicians will not enter the political arena in Peninsular Malaysia. The fact that LKY was forced to respond to Ultra UMNO Politicians activities in Singapore caused more friction in the relationship between the ethnic groups.

The dramatic consequences of the head-on political challenge between LKY against the Politicians from Peninsular Malaysia resulted in furthering their insecurity and atmosphere of being threatened by a more articulate person than themselves. Tunku was the first to feel threatened by LKY political ideas in his maiden speech in the Federal Parliament.

"Let us get down to fundamentals. Is this an open, or is this a closed society? Is it a society where men can preach ideas - novel, unorthodox, heresies, to established churches and established governments - where there is a constant contest for men's hearts and minds on the basis of what is right, of what is just, of what is in the national interests, or is it a closed society where the mass media - the newspapaers, the journals, publications, TV, radio - either bound by sound or by sight, or both sound and sight, men's minds are fed with a constant drone of sycophantic support for a particular orthodox political philosophy? That is the first question we asked ourselves. I would like to see minds stimulated and debate provoked, and truth refined and crystallized out of the conflict of different evidence and views. I, therefore, welcome every and any opportunity of a chance to agree, or to dissent, in order that out of thesis comes synthesis - thesis, anti-major premise, anti-premise, synthesis, so we progress... I welcome every opportunity to meet members of the opposition, and so do members of my party, over the radio, over the television, university forums, public rallies. We never run away from the open encounter. If your ideas, your views cannot stand the challenge of criticism then they are too fragile and not sturdy enough to last. I am talking of the principle of the open society, the open debate, ideas, not intimidation, persuasion not coercion... Sir, the basic fundamentals we asked ourselves...is whether the duties of the Minister of Information and Broadcasting are to produce closed minds or open minds, because these instruments - the mass media, the TV, the radio - can produce either the open minds receptive to ideas and ideals, a democratic system of life, or closed and limited. But I know that the open debate is a painful process for closed minds...But let me make this point: that 5 million adult minds in Malaysia cannot be closed - definitely not in the lifetime of the people in authority. It is not possible because whatever the faults of the colonial system, and there are many...they generated the open mind, the inquiring mind." - Lee Kuan Yew Dec 18, 1964 Malaysian Parliamentary Debates ''

With LKY having a free hand since 1965, and under his continuous influence - is Singapore a better and free society according to his grand vision encapsulated in his speech made in the Malaysian Parliament ?

Jumping the Time Lines, Singapore present day population problems had originated also from LKY's insistence in a 2 child Family Planning in the 1960s - that was vigorously promoted, including psychological pressure to have the women undergo operation to prevent future pregnancy after the second child birth.

Singapore's present political landscape is due entirely to the insecurity of LKY in being challenged, resulting in the side lining of his generation of leaders that formed his Team in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

Every member of his earlier teams had been able to stand-up and debate him on his ideas, and it seems that most allowed him to have his ways due to his ''gift of the gap'' and an ''agile and alert mind'' that is a storehouse of data and events.

The present Political Landscape will pose a future danger to Singaporeans as the various institutions that existed in the 1950s and 1960s to provide check and balance to the Political Structure were systematically dismantled.

Even LKY's idea of a 2-Key control over the National Reseve seem to be quietly dismantled after the late President Ong Teng Cheong put this concept to a test by asking the GCT Goverment to produce an audit of the National Reserve so that the President will know what he is looking after.

LKY's idea of not allowing a New Cabinet to utilise the budget surplus from the previous Cabinet was made under the pretext of protecting the National Reserves from being ''supposedly raided'' by any rouge political party forming the next Government.

This is merely creating future political problems for Singaporeans who will dare to cast out the PAP from any supposedly freak election result.

Why should this be seen as a freak result ?

If all these problems are not created by the wilful act of one Man that believe himself to be infallible, and leaving the ordinary Singaporeans to sweat it out to make things succeed - can Singapore be what it is today ?

The fact that the Singapore economy continue to tick is not due to the Politicians - who are quick to blame overseas factors that affect Singapore - but is due to the energy and enterprise of ordinary Singaporeans making our own way through a minefield of legislations that slow us down.

The silly speed limits - of 50kmh, 70kmh, 80kmh and 90kmh - that blanket Singapore roads have made criminals out of every Singapore driver, as no one seem to respect this piece of legislation, and one can see car zipping along at speeds that are in excess of the prevailing limits.

No one is caught until the law is enforced.

Can the Singapore economy exist at the various speed limits that restrained Singaporeans, if Singaporeans did not take the risk to break the law and be criminalised ?

This is Singapore under a kiasu Government that takes a short cut in passing legislations that shoot the mouse with a cannon.

Is the POWER of ONE not to blame ?

Is his contribution not over blown ?

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by robertteh @ Sat, 10 May 2008 00:02:50 +0800

robertteh — Sat, 10 May 2008 00:02:50 +0800

Will4,

With graduate mother or streaming schemes presentations may look tempting at first but upon closer practical scrutiny there were many flaws concealed to allow leaders who are selfish and self-serving as seen from their many past practices to get away with such policies for years.

Did graduate mother or educational streaming policy been proven as proposed or conceptualized by LKY. Never !!

Foreign worker import policy also in the same way was presented in a one-tracked fallacious manner to make it look as if it will create job. If we are to look at it closely it will be found to be selfish in order to allow the government to grab a few foreigners to quicken filling up of jobs without throwing the net wider to allow local to step into the available jobs. Why can't there be a holding-hand period to allow lesser-related unemployed locals to go through a longer probation to convert them to the particular jobs available instead of stopping at the normal schedule dictated by selfish employers who merely want to get cheaper foreigners to earn quick bucks which in the longer run are costing them more due to other social problems caused to housing, transportation, facilities etc which push up our local costs of living.

The fundamental issue at stake here which LKY failed to see is "Government owes its existence to its citizens including all its past success and surpluses used by government to promote itself so no citizens should be forsaken in any crisis"

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by will4 @ Fri, 09 May 2008 23:38:39 +0800

will4 — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:38:39 +0800

Originally posted by rokkie:

FT create more jobs ,or make the unemployment worse?

It depend on the situation, some of the blue collar jobs are shunned by the local ending up MOM has to liberalize the quota for foreign

workers which is good for the company.

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by rokkie @ Fri, 09 May 2008 23:36:57 +0800

rokkie — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:36:57 +0800

FT create more jobs ,or make the unemployment worse?

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by will4 @ Fri, 09 May 2008 23:30:08 +0800

will4 — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:30:08 +0800

Originally posted by robertteh:

Will4,

A good leader will not forsake his people as LKY has been doing e.g. leaving them in a lurch during recessions, shifting the blame for failure of economic restructuging to his own people with excuses like lacking of skills etc.

His mistake in streaming the students out in his primitive education system took years to debunk because he has buried his head in the sand and that was changed only after encountering much economic problems and strong objections from the population.

His mainstay policy is taxing and profiteering at the expense of the people until they lose their retirement, hoarding monies to build his own ego of surplus which does not benefit the citizens but only to be lost on Shin Corp or Global Crossing etc etc.

The worse is promote himself and his own name and reputation based on some leadership claim which is totally unfounded based on facts and his stubborn and narrow-minded refusing to change policies which did not work as Catherine Lim or Ngiam Tong Dow has put it.

All such narrow-minded attitude towards the people has set back our economic competitiveness which could have done much much better had he not been too self-centred and selfish to guard his own interest.

His narrow-minded governing philosophy has stifled the vibrancy and growth of an otherwise good economy for years.

Many of our good people with practical knowledge in various field are migrating. Some say it is about 10 per day. LKY's own figure of brain drain is itself evidences of his own lack of leadership or success - a well-run country does not have so many grouses and harsh policies against their own people. If our 800 top brains have stayed behind we could have created many more jobs instead of throwing the door open to foreigners to cut the face so as to spite the nose.

Why was there a difference from the figure of LHL who knows. Minister Ng Eng Hen has given figures which tends to under-state seriousness of problems about unemployments.

This itself should tell citizens how good is LKY's system of government - to use statistics to deny or under-state problems.

Hi Robert,

Sometimes by asking foreign professional to convert to be

PR is not likely to be a solution. Mr Ngiam has once highlighted the

quality of the immigrant Spore is atrracting. Is govt doing someting to scrutinze kick out those undesirable immgrants? PM Lee mentioned to

a group of people saying Spore has no hinterland to fall back on except the choice to attract more foreign professional to come to this country to contribute to the economy.

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by robertteh @ Fri, 09 May 2008 23:22:33 +0800

robertteh — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:22:33 +0800

Will4,

A good leader will not forsake his people as LKY has been doing e.g. leaving them in a lurch during recessions, shifting the blame for failure of economic restructuging to his own people with excuses like lacking of skills etc.

His mistake in streaming the students out in his primitive education system took years to debunk because he has buried his head in the sand and that was changed only after encountering much economic problems and strong objections from the population.

His mainstay policy is taxing and profiteering at the expense of the people until they lose their retirement, hoarding monies to build his own ego of surplus which does not benefit the citizens but only to be lost on Shin Corp or Global Crossing etc etc.

The worse is promote himself and his own name and reputation based on some leadership claim which is totally unfounded based on facts and his stubborn and narrow-minded refusing to change policies which did not work as Catherine Lim or Ngiam Tong Dow has put it.

All such narrow-minded attitude towards the people has set back our economic competitiveness which could have done much much better had he not been too self-centred and selfish to guard his own interest.

His narrow-minded governing philosophy has stifled the vibrancy and growth of an otherwise good economy for years.

Many of our good people with practical knowledge in various field are migrating. Some say it is about 10 per day. LKY's own figure of brain drain is itself evidences of his own lack of leadership or success - a well-run country does not have so many grouses and harsh policies against their own people. If our 800 top brains have stayed behind we could have created many more jobs instead of throwing the door open to foreigners to cut the face so as to spite the nose.

Why was there a difference from the figure of LHL who knows. Minister Ng Eng Hen has given figures which tends to under-state seriousness of problems about unemployments.

This itself should tell citizens how good is LKY's system of government - to use statistics to deny or under-state problems.

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by rokkie @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:55:36 +0800

rokkie — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:55:36 +0800

that's why he wants FT to fill in?

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by will4 @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:52:50 +0800

will4 — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:52:50 +0800

Originally posted by robertteh:

He did some good. I said this before. So I did not over-exaggerate this post. Do be objective about his contributions and not be carried away by his propagandas.

Hi Robert,

There is no doubt about MM Lee's contribution to Spore.

I need to know the following thing. Despite Spore being a stable

country, how come aa survey show more n more local esp the young

ones are migrating to other countries? There seemed to be

contradiction between the PM n MM on the issues of migration.

PM Lee said that 800 locals migrated to other countries each year

whereas MM Lee said 1000 locals migrated. Is there anyway which

the govt can publish in the media how many local migrated to other

countries n those given up on local citizenship?

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by Uncle Ver SG @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:48:56 +0800

Uncle Ver SG — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:48:56 +0800

"this is a bias point of view. LKY did do much good for Singapore. Ask yourself, if he was not a good leader, how can Singapore be what it is today. Also, for Singaporeans to support him all the way from when we gained independance to now shows something good about him!"

A. Singapore can be what it is today and maybe even better. If no LKY, still have other founding fathers who actually did the heavy lifting.

B. Thanks to endless propoganda from bootlicking canines in the media.

I am pretty sure that LKY wont amount to anything in world history.

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by rokkie @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:44:18 +0800

rokkie — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:44:18 +0800

he is a good leader, and mark the history

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by escadaraindrops @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:42:55 +0800

escadaraindrops — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:42:55 +0800

but yes, there are certain things which he did not do well like handling the Malaysia and Singaporean seperation etc.etc

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by escadaraindrops @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:42:18 +0800

escadaraindrops — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:42:18 +0800

this is a bias point of view. LKY did do much good for Singapore. Ask yourself, if he was not a good leader, how can Singapore be what it is today. Also, for Singaporeans to support him all the way from when we gained independance to now shows something good about him!

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by robertteh @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:37:29 +0800

robertteh — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:37:29 +0800

He did some good. I said this before. So I did not over-exaggerate this post. Do be objective about his contributions and not be carried away by his propagandas.

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by rokkie @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:32:45 +0800

rokkie — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:32:45 +0800

is his policy that good person should marry to good person, degree ppl to degree ,poly to ploy ?

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by the Bear @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:29:59 +0800

the Bear — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:29:59 +0800

he did some good..

btw.. your hot air in SC is also overblown so much you can send a mothership to the stratosphere...

get a grip

LKY's contributions totally over-blown and exaggerated replied by robertteh @ Fri, 09 May 2008 22:28:50 +0800

robertteh — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:28:50 +0800

His only contributions is to get his way, as always by glorifying himself, by legalistic tweaking of laws to control his people's freedom and holding back progress of his own people.

He cannot see other people's point of view in many issues and problems thereby setting back progress for his people for ages.

He is narrow-minded burying his head like ostrich in the sand, by denying problems, by playing his power and claiming credit not due to him, by propaganda, by fear, by deception, about his talents and leadership.

His could only contribute by taxing and profiteering by driving up costs of living by suing his political opponents to serve his own and his party's self-interests.

Apart from getting his way and refusing to see other people's point of view and holding back real progress of his talented people what larger goals has he upheld and promoted except his own elitist circles and has he really improved the lives of ordinary people?

If he has done so many things as he claimed people will not be suffering from problems like NKF being sued for incidental remarks made in election campaigning or dropping standards of living and loss or postponements of their retirements.

He has stalled the vibrancy and growth and development of the larger population and stifled the growth potential of his good people.

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