http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 en-US 60 <p>The US would not take unilateral action not with election and iraq is going on. Asean member&nbsp;would be extremely reluctant to take action. Aus would need Asean helps if they want to go alone.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I was hopping that&nbsp;Ex Cobra would be use as the platform to launch&nbsp;relief aid to Myanmar. &nbsp;</p> Tue, 20 May 2008 23:44:01 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8101339 Arapahoe http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>True enough, dropping food into the Irrawaddy Delta won't help.</p> <p>What is required in that area is medical treatment, and clean water.&nbsp; Maybe we can drop bottles of Ice-mountain, but medical treatment can only be provided by doctors on the ground.</p> <p>If a military option is to be exercised, there will be boots on the ground to maintain some form of perimeter security.</p> <p>To me, the softening of stance by the Burmese Govt is merely trying to avoid possible unilateral military intervention by world powers.&nbsp; If the US decides to intervene, it will probably see it through to a regime change.</p> Tue, 20 May 2008 18:19:52 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8100388 Shotgun http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <h2 class="">BAD START TO THE YEAR OF THE RAT</h2> <p>&nbsp;<a href= "http://www.ericmargolis.com/archives/2008/05/bad_start_to_th.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.ericmargolis.com/archives/2008/</a></p> <div class=""></div> Tue, 20 May 2008 16:44:40 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8100229 Poh Ah Pak http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>Actually asean should have taken a stronger leads especially the original 6 members. Either way good or bad the world is looking at Asean for some&nbsp;response within the region.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Myanmar delimma.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Air Drop.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style= "color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman;">Force and humanitarian work don't mix. It's not a moral argument. It won't work," he continues. "If you drop food on people's heads, strong young men with guns will get it. It won't be the elderly, the children, the dying."</span></p> <p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">&nbsp;</p> <p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"></p> <p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style= "font-size: 11pt;"><span style= "color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman;">World perspective</span></span></p> <p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style= "font-size: 11pt;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style= "font-family: Times New Roman;">&nbsp;</span></span></span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black;"><span style= "font-family: Arial;">Member states "claim to work quietly behind the scenes. But they haven't shown that this works," he continues. "ASEAN's original promise in allowing in Burma was that it would bring Burma up to ASEAN standards. ASEAN has been brought down to Burma's standards."</span></span></p> <p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black;"><span style= "font-family: Arial;">Asean perspective</span></span></p> <p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">&nbsp;</p> <p><span style="color: #000000;"><span style= "font-family: Times New Roman;">The organization is "mainly an economic bloc. But they want to increase their position to be like the European Union," he continues, adding that ASEAN will wield more influence by mediating between Burma and Western countries</span></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Tue, 20 May 2008 04:42:07 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8099230 Arapahoe http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Meat Pao:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <div> <h1>ASEAN to take lead in Burma relief</h1> <p>From correspondents in Rangoon</p> <p>May 19, 2008 08:40pm</p> </div> <p>&lt;!-- END Story Toolbar --&gt; &lt;!-- Lead Content Panel --&gt;</p> <div> <p>SOUTH East Asian nations will take the lead in an international aid effort for cyclone-hit Burma, but the ruling military junta will not allow unfettered access for relief teams, the Association of South East Asian Nations said today.</p> </div> <p>"We will establish a mechanism so that aid from all over the world can flow into Myanmar (Burma),'' Singapore's Foreign Minister George Yeo said.<br /> <br /> Burma - which is a part of ASEAN - repeated its willingness to accept foreign help, Mr Yeo said.<br /> <br /> "For a start, the Myanmar Government has agreed to accept the immediate dispatch of medical teams from all the ASEAN countries,'' Mr Yeo said.<br /> <br /> However, the entry of aid workers from outside ASEAN would be on a case-by-case basis.<br /> <br /> "We have to look at specific needs - there will not be uncontrolled access,'' he said.<br /> <br /> ASEAN will work with the United Nations to hold an "international pledging conference'' in Burma's main city, Rangoon, on May 25 to pool together aid for the victims, Mr Yeo said.<br /> <br /> UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has said the world body and ASEAN should together co-ordinate a ramped-up relief effort for the 2.5 million people left destitute by Cyclone Nargis, which struck Burma two weeks ago.<br /> <br /> Ban was due to fly to Rangoon this week to tour the hardest-hit Irrawaddy Delta and is expected to meet with junta supremo Than Shwe, who refused to take a call from the United Nations' boss on the cyclone, which has left 134,000 dead or missing.<br /> <br /> Humanitarian agencies say the death toll from Nargis, already one of the most devastating cyclones to hit Asia, could soar without a massive increase of emergency food, water, shelter and medicine to the Irrawaddy Delta.<br /> <br /> Burma's military government has so far refused to admit large-scale foreign aid for fear it will loosen its 46-year grip on power.<br /> <br /> However, Britain's Asia Minister, Mark Malloch-Brown, said yesterday diplomats may have turned the corner in brokering an aid deal that accommodated the generals' deep distrust of the outside world, in particular the West.<br /> <br /> "Like all turning points in Burma, the corner will have a few 'S' bends in it,'' he said.<br /> <br /> While aid has been trickling into the delta, the UN's World Food Program (WFP) says it has managed to get rice and beans to just 250,000 of the 750,000 people it thinks are most in need.<br /> <br /> While apparently convincing Burma to drop its resistance to large-scale foreign aid, the regional bloc also warned donors that "international assistance given to Myanmar, given through ASEAN, should not be politicised''.<br /> <br /> "On that basis, Myanmar will accept international assistance,'' Yeo said.<br /> <br /> Asked about Burma's estimate of cyclone damage, Yeo said the Burmese foreign minister told the meeting it was "well over $10.48 billion''.</p> <p>=========================================</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I am happy ASEAN has moved and put itself as a broker/ go-between. I am also happy Myanmar has accepted ASEAN teams and ASEAN has successfully persuaded Myanmar to do so.</p> <p>Very good outcome, ASEAN has done all that it is supposed to do, be an intermediary, help alleviate human suffering, send its teams into Myanmar, and at the same time, throw its body to protect Myanmar from being bullied again, and the West from claiming moral superiority endlessly.</p> <p>I am very happy with this ASEAN intervention and decision, including Myanmar's cooperation with ASEAN.</p> <p>But one thing I find abit puzzling, and I cannot read, why does it take ASEAN quite some time to launch this meeting and this intervention. This is quite a question mark for me. Maybe behind the scenes something happened or there was internal disagreement. I really hope in future ASEAN can move abit faster, in a blitz manner.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Meat Pao.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Oh , great news... hip hip hurrraaayyy...</p> <p>and you forget to include the rest of that piece of news about how many foreign medical personnel are currently allowed to aid that few million victims.</p> <p>Say, 30 personnel per ASEAN country.. now.. that's a number to rejoice isn't it ?</p> <p>and the last I checked plus only 130 foreign aid from Bangladesh, India and China.</p> <p>"People who have slipped through say the situation is almost unbearable -- hungry people in leaking huts, stinking corpses rotting by the roadside, and most survivors still without any government aid."</p> <h1>Southeast Asian neighbours to lead Myanmar cyclone relief- Full Article.<br /></h1> <p><a href= "http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080519/wl_afp/myanmarcyclone_080519173030;_ylt=AvAa69b7SA0rme1AVaJSnRj9xg8F" title=" Southeast Asian neighbours to lead Myanmar cyclone relief" rel= "nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080519/wl_afp/myanmarcyclone_080519173030;_ylt=AvAa69b7SA0rme1AVaJSnRj9xg8F</a></p> Tue, 20 May 2008 02:04:57 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8099150 jojobeach http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>Mynmar govt is one corked up country. Well, bascially, the best solution is to charge into mynar without permission to save directly to offer aid to dying.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Such effort is unprecendented because UN itself has also have many experiences of conflict in many countries that is unresolved and slow in progress.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>IF you read about international affairs, sufferings of people due to conflicts, civil wars and poor governace is quite common and on going. Therefore, there is nothing much the world can do. We , as a human being, are not able to reach out to the poor when govt insist on doing things their own ways. SUch is the state of our world.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Stories of suffering of poor people will continue to happen in other countries now in the future too.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Basically, UN, Asean, EU and mostly importantly, individuals like you and me all has to contribute. You realize that individuals tend to be critical of those large bodies and govt but they themselves are just watching fire also... Come on.....</p> Tue, 20 May 2008 01:33:27 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8099124 january http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>ASEAN as a whole has always been slow to react and move..</p> <p>why? cos the individual countries have never been able to reach a common understanding... there is too much mistrust and jockeying for positions within ASEAN itself for it to be truly effective....</p> <p>For those who ask why aid has to be sent in military vessel, let it be known that almost the whole world does it this way...</p> <p>why?? chartering civilian vessels have a cost... using military vessels is free plus it provides training for the crew... so why do it the other way...</p> <p>and for those still supporting the current myanmar govt, open your eyes..... our government may not be perfect.. but at least it's much more better than theirs....</p> Tue, 20 May 2008 00:39:29 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8099017 pigsticker http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>this&nbsp;whole thing is an PR excerise by Myanmar govt so that the world would stop getting at the generals.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Ever since the failure to sign the Asean Human Right charter last</p> <p>year there isn;t alot of momentum for Asean to move forward with Myanmar. Asean had basically throw its tower to the UN.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>At the UN level&nbsp;it would not escalate to the level&nbsp;of&nbsp;security council&nbsp;as it is&nbsp;block by China and Russia&nbsp;since it is view as a&nbsp;domestics crisis. &nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>What puzzle me is why did FM George&nbsp;mention in an interviewed that there are more suffering if international communities were to&nbsp; interferred.&nbsp;Not sure which level of deathtoll would&nbsp;justified. &nbsp;&nbsp;</p> Tue, 20 May 2008 00:27:42 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8098993 Arapahoe http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>I dun think Myammar is really sincere in asking help from ASEAN. It's more like ASEAN offering it's help to Myammar, so maybe that's why we see the slow reaction from ASEAN. If Myammar is really sincere in getting help, they will take the initiative to ASK, rather than ASEAN go beg them to open their doors for help.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>But the good thing is that Myammar is finally opening it's doors for foreign aids.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Ya, I'm against invading Myammar as well. But I appreciate the French effort in UN to knock the Myammar's door open.</p> Tue, 20 May 2008 00:06:12 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8098940 Hogzilla http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <div class=""> <h1>ASEAN to take lead in Burma relief</h1> <p class="">From correspondents in Rangoon</p> <p class="">May 19, 2008 08:40pm</p> </div> <p>&lt;!-- END Story Toolbar --&gt; &lt;!-- Lead Content Panel --&gt;</p> <div class=""> <p>SOUTH East Asian nations will take the lead in an international aid effort for cyclone-hit Burma, but the ruling military junta will not allow unfettered access for relief teams, the Association of South East Asian Nations said today.</p> </div> <p>"We will establish a mechanism so that aid from all over the world can flow into Myanmar (Burma),'' Singapore's Foreign Minister George Yeo said.<br /> <br /> Burma - which is a part of ASEAN - repeated its willingness to accept foreign help, Mr Yeo said.<br /> <br /> "For a start, the Myanmar Government has agreed to accept the immediate dispatch of medical teams from all the ASEAN countries,'' Mr Yeo said.<br /> <br /> However, the entry of aid workers from outside ASEAN would be on a case-by-case basis.<br /> <br /> "We have to look at specific needs - there will not be uncontrolled access,'' he said.<br /> <br /> ASEAN will work with the United Nations to hold an "international pledging conference'' in Burma's main city, Rangoon, on May 25 to pool together aid for the victims, Mr Yeo said.<br /> <br /> UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has said the world body and ASEAN should together co-ordinate a ramped-up relief effort for the 2.5 million people left destitute by Cyclone Nargis, which struck Burma two weeks ago.<br /> <br /> Ban was due to fly to Rangoon this week to tour the hardest-hit Irrawaddy Delta and is expected to meet with junta supremo Than Shwe, who refused to take a call from the United Nations' boss on the cyclone, which has left 134,000 dead or missing.<br /> <br /> Humanitarian agencies say the death toll from Nargis, already one of the most devastating cyclones to hit Asia, could soar without a massive increase of emergency food, water, shelter and medicine to the Irrawaddy Delta.<br /> <br /> Burma's military government has so far refused to admit large-scale foreign aid for fear it will loosen its 46-year grip on power.<br /> <br /> However, Britain's Asia Minister, Mark Malloch-Brown, said yesterday diplomats may have turned the corner in brokering an aid deal that accommodated the generals' deep distrust of the outside world, in particular the West.<br /> <br /> "Like all turning points in Burma, the corner will have a few 'S' bends in it,'' he said.<br /> <br /> While aid has been trickling into the delta, the UN's World Food Program (WFP) says it has managed to get rice and beans to just 250,000 of the 750,000 people it thinks are most in need.<br /> <br /> While apparently convincing Burma to drop its resistance to large-scale foreign aid, the regional bloc also warned donors that "international assistance given to Myanmar, given through ASEAN, should not be politicised''.<br /> <br /> "On that basis, Myanmar will accept international assistance,'' Yeo said.<br /> <br /> Asked about Burma's estimate of cyclone damage, Yeo said the Burmese foreign minister told the meeting it was "well over $10.48 billion''.</p> <p>=========================================</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I am happy ASEAN has moved and put itself as a broker/ go-between. I am also happy Myanmar has accepted ASEAN teams and ASEAN has successfully persuaded Myanmar to do so.</p> <p>Very good outcome, ASEAN has done all that it is supposed to do, be an intermediary, help alleviate human suffering, send its teams into Myanmar, and at the same time, throw its body to protect Myanmar from being bullied again, and the West from claiming moral superiority endlessly.</p> <p>I am very happy with this ASEAN intervention and decision, including Myanmar's cooperation with ASEAN.</p> <p>But one thing I find abit puzzling, and I cannot read, why does it take ASEAN quite some time to launch this meeting and this intervention. This is quite a question mark for me. Maybe behind the scenes something happened or there was internal disagreement. I really hope in future ASEAN can move abit faster, in a blitz manner.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Meat Pao.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 22:38:59 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8098649 Meat Pao http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Fallen_Heaven:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Dont donate.. it will only end up in the junta pocket.</p> <p>lets see what will happen when there is no more aid.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> i think this is unfornate true. Probably have to bride all the way to send aid.</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 23:54:14 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8087215 Arapahoe http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p style= "margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 6pt; margin-right: 6pt;"> <span style="color: black; font-family: Arial;">this thread is about Myanmar not about US hege..money....lah...</span></p> Wed, 14 May 2008 23:52:47 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8087206 Arapahoe http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Bush is leader of extremist USA.</p> <p><a href= "http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/13/fmr_military_intelligence_officer_reveals_us" rel="nofollow">http://www.democracynow.org/2008/</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.downingstreetmemo.com" rel= "nofollow">http://www.downingstreetmemo.com</a></p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> Please lah Mr Poh.</p> <p>This is Bush's last term liao.</p> <p>New president election soon.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Who cares about Bush anymore ?</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 22:44:05 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8086935 jojobeach http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>sounds like another Somalia incident.</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 22:37:04 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8086905 wonderamazement http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p><a href= "http://www.straitstimes.com/Free/Story/STIStory_237154.html" title="Some aid items for the victims turned up for sale in Yangon's markets." rel="nofollow">Some aid items for the victims turned up for sale in Yangon's markets.</a></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 22:34:42 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8086895 googoomuck http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>Bush is leader of extremist USA.</p> <p><a href= "http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/13/fmr_military_intelligence_officer_reveals_us" rel="nofollow">http://www.democracynow.org/2008/</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.downingstreetmemo.com" rel= "nofollow">http://www.downingstreetmemo.com</a></p> Wed, 14 May 2008 16:07:17 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8085953 Poh Ah Pak http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>Right...&nbsp;</p> <p>Oddly, ever since the US started Op Enduring Freedom, the world has been a more peaceful place.</p> <p>Considering that there hasn't been a major terrorist incident (mostly carbombs targeting small targets rather than national symbols) since September 11, 2001.&nbsp; Majority of the violence is contained in Afghanistan, Gaza&nbsp;and Iraq, and while the rest of the middle eastern states condemn US presence, they are benefiting if not flourishing from the unprecedented level of stability and economic growth.</p> <p>Before they put Bush and Blair on the stand, they oughta put all the extremist group leaders up.&nbsp; Followed by populist dictators and trolls (ahem).</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 16:00:59 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8085936 Shotgun http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>What about Bush and Blair?</p> <p><a href= "http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j3TJ_LsBMrvXU2HxiZssd4cBl-4g" rel="nofollow">http://afp.google.com/article/</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.chedet.com/" rel= "nofollow">http://www.chedet.com<br /></a></p> Wed, 14 May 2008 14:19:00 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8085547 Poh Ah Pak http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>I think once the International community can get proof of those accusations, the UN should step down and "kick down the doors" if necessary to get aid to the people.</p> <p>In a way, those Burmese generals should be put on trial for Crimes against humanity.</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 13:34:34 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8085430 Shotgun http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>Dont donate.. it will only end up in the junta pocket.</p> <p>lets see what will happen when there is no more aid.</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 12:14:16 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8085269 Fallen_Heaven http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>yes. the govenment are tards! they should start thinking with their brains and not that dicks!</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>people are dying and suffering and they can still reject aid and "take their time" to approve visas etcetc</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 11:57:07 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8085228 escadaraindrops http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by jojobeach:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Now the Junta is funneling international food aids into their military warehouses, while giving low quality food to the disaster victims.</p> <p>Rotten rice anyone ?</p> <p>How low can they go ?</p> <p>I wonder how those Junta soldiers sleep at night.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>I read thru some online article that during the uprising by the civilian whch nclude the monk last year, some of the soldier refused to take action against the protester.</p> <p>Some of the general also fell out with one another over the method to deal with protester.</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 09:42:42 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8084911 will4 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>Now the Junta is funneling international food aids into their military warehouses, while giving low quality food to the disaster victims.</p> <p>Rotten rice anyone ?</p> <p>How low can they go ?</p> <p>I wonder how those Junta soldiers sleep at night.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 08:43:19 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8084808 jojobeach http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>... the situation is just getting worse&nbsp;each day that passes ...</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>... I sincerely hope the UN and the US will in the progression of 'Push coming to Shove', forcibly kick the wicked &amp; tyrannic millitary government out of Myanmar just like was done to Sadam and his administration ...</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Wed, 14 May 2008 08:33:17 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8084795 HyperFocal http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039 <p>I have not donated a single cent to the myanmar&nbsp;disaster fund.&nbsp;luckily ..</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>who knows , it could now be used to channel illicit drugs and corrupt dealings across the whole fucking corrupt junta</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>such government should not even deserve pity at all..</p> Tue, 13 May 2008 23:31:54 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317039:8084413 Fallen_Heaven http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317039