Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by will4 @ Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:45:34 +0800

will4 — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:45:34 +0800

Originally posted by Pekei:

Will4, are you a Singaporean?

I am not a local but if u want to know, a second generation Spore PR served NS as a PES C clerk.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:53:27 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:53:27 +0800

Have u ever thought how come the name is Workers Party? and then the logo, there is hammer actually....it is quite similar to Soviet style sickle.

Analyse political party must look at policies, not logo.

Chinese Communist party is also not communist.

The Workers' Party Manifesto

http://www.wp.sg/wp/beliefs/manifesto.php

SDP Manifesto

http://www.yoursdp.org/index.php/the-party/

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by the Bear @ Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:37:31 +0800

the Bear — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:37:31 +0800

Originally posted by t_a_s:

Malaysia announced plans yesterday to trim financial allowances for govt ministers during this period of price hike. This is a good example of good governance. Spore ministers on the other hand, keep asking for increment of salary and bonus. This show that they are very greedy and hardup of money.

Malaysia?? Good governance? because the PM is trying to force cuts on their mini-star in the face of outright mutiny?

that's some mighty powerful crack you're smokin'

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by t_a_s @ Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:19:08 +0800

t_a_s — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:19:08 +0800

Malaysia announced plans yesterday to trim financial allowances for govt ministers during this period of price hike. This is a good example of good governance. Spore ministers on the other hand, keep asking for increment of salary and bonus. This show that they are very greedy and hardup of money.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Atobe @ Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:01:07 +0800

Atobe — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:01:07 +0800

Those views were exactly that held in Taiwan when the Kuomintang was entrenched as the only viable political party to rule Taiwan.

Then came the maverick Chen Shui Bian, and a political party that was set up by Taiwanese Nationalists on the sly - with Lee Teng Hui being the 'Devil's Advocate' while serving as a Kuomintang President-Elect.

Unfortunately, during the two term of Chen Shui Bian's presidency, he owed it to Lee Teng Hui to carry forward the Taiwan Independence Agenda, and lost the opportunity to show that an Alternative Political Party can match the prowess of the previously entrenched Kuomintang in managing the Taiwanese economy.

The Kuomintang loss over two presidential term had given them the opportunity to straighten their agenda, fine tune their programmes, and shook them to the core requiring a complete make-over into a more responsive Political Party to become relevant again in Taiwanese Politics.

Never say never in politics.

It happened in South Korea, and their economy is none the worst since losing several strong military generals turned politicians, after the assassination of Presidential Dictator Park Chung Hee.

The democratic practices in South Korea allowed more political space to the citizens then ever possible since WW-2, and made the Presidential Office and Government more responsive and accountable for their policy decisions.

Singaporeans have been too cloistered and subjected to the humdrum propaganda that peace and stability is good for the economy, hence public demonstration and public protest will only destabilise the economy and break investors' confidence.

It is surprising that public demonstration and public protest will only affect the economy, but nothing was ever mentioned that in reality the main effect is on the political stability of the Ruling Political Party.

Without any avenues to vent citizens' grieviances, and with the government paying only lip service at being aware of the hardship that Singaporeans faced, and their continued intransigence at with-holding welfare to the down and out - how long can Singaporeans continue to live under pressure ?

Even the imensely paranoid autocratic communist state of Soviet Russia had to finally succumb to the the pressures that exploded from the people, and brought down decades of autocratic communist central government.

The years of dependence on a rigid system has left the ordinary Russians with little experience in exercising initiative and self-enterprise, except for the hoodlums and economic opportunists that thrive in a closed system will now have a wider space to exercise their tested initiative and enterprise.

Like the tides of the sea, the political fortunes of governments and political parties will rise and fall, political change will surely happen - when the strings are stubbornly held too tight, or when no one pays any attention to the affairs of the state.

The other question is the choice of personality.

If the present lot of Singaporean Politicians do not present themselves as acceptable, and those already chosen are mediocre in performance, there will come a point in time, when crisis will throw up someone with the ability to project his program with new enthusiasm and vision, and mobilise the ground again.

We have seen this in the political history of other countries across the globe.

Crisis will bring out the best in every man, and this is practised by LKY in his scheme of things by having each Minister attend to two portfolios, Minister-of-State supporting the Ministers and gaining experiences, and Permanent Secretaries kept on their toes with a multitude of duties from different portfolios in different ministries.

This has even extended into the manner in which MINDEF and the SAF operates - with a high tempo of continuous exercises that keep the organisation alert, and constant training hone the basic skills to become second nature.

Never say never - as LKY and his first group surfaced at a time of political challenges after the end of WW-2, which inspired his generation into action.

If it does not happen during this decade, it will happen in the next, or....

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Meat Pao @ Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:58:36 +0800

Meat Pao — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:58:36 +0800

To come back to the topic....is there a better gov to run Singapore..

I personally cannot envision such a scenario...

In my opinion, PAP is a center-party, or how to say, a party which is already entrenched, and draw the technocrats and middle class people.

So the 'opposition' are people who are apart from this group, the marginalized people, left out.

Someone pointed out before, Potong Pasir is a poor area, and Orchard, district 10 always PAP.

This makes sense, and also a natural phenomenon.

In a working and fine country, the ones who will become the opposition are the disgruntled people. Disenfranchized people. They form these breakaway groups apart from the center group.

This is not to badmouth or insult them, this is just a discussion, no disrespect.

So.....I find it really hard to imagine there is another PAP clone kind of opposition....maybe Singapore size is too small.....or PAP is very good in recruiting the potential ones...whatever the reason, fact is, the opposition now is in another class. And they are serving a certain niche or ideology.

If we see, for instance Workers Party.

Have u ever thought how come the name is Workers Party? and then the logo, there is hammer actually....it is quite similar to Soviet style sickle.

This tells me without much, they are a kind of 'labour' party, or socialist party, populist party, etc so on, can see the style and the ideology already.

So my thinking is....this is another reason why opposition will never win....not only because of lack of talents, it is also because they serve a certain niche ideology, not in the center. It will attract some people, but not enough people.

Judging from what they persue, I rather have PAP continue to govern Singapore. PAP is the macro-managers, center-positioned, and very much a technocrats party. They will persue whatever policy is good for the overall future of Singapore.

WP, and other opposition, I tell you something. Their brand of vision will be bad for Singapore, overall. Why..? Because these are disgruntled people with niche ideology. It will be bad to have them rule over the majority.

One example, easy one.......in election campaigns, a theme getting repeated in recent years is the issue of so-called Foreign Talents (FT).

You will see the oppositions saying all sorts of things against FT.....

But is that good for overall health of Singapore?

This brand of politics is what will derail Singapore, fake populism and pandering.

This is no different with similar phenomenons in other countries.

In Australia, disgruntled people made birth to a politician named Pauline Hanson, her party is anti-immigrant. In USA recently the Democrats in the campaigns in industrial states had to repeatedly launch anti-NAFTA retoric, although they know free trade is actually good for their country. These 2 phenomenons play to the interest of disgruntled peoples of their societies but actually harm their long term objective as a successful country.

That is why I dont like to see WP, SDP, winning. In my opinion it is harmful to Singapore's interest.

Meat Pao.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by the Bear @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:19:18 +0800

the Bear — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:19:18 +0800

actually, what is the question about?

is it akin to the US running Iraq? or Syria trying to run Lebanon with Iran also trying to run the same place?

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Atobe @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:15:09 +0800

Atobe — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:15:09 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

How come Gazelle stop using Aelop and start using Pekei

Aelop has been exposed as the ''panty-sniffing, wanking sheep'' in the identical ways as that of a dim witted Gazelle - who was so cluelessly 'point blank' honest in his public declaration of his panty-sniffing ways at the Bar.

He has openly admitted it in his new thread : ‘Guidelines for Speakers Corner’.

Originally posted by Pekei:

I am Gazelle.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by eagle @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:02:56 +0800

eagle — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:02:56 +0800

Originally posted by maurizio13:

Because there are too many people against P4P, he needs more clones to sound convincing lah. Have pity on him, only one mouth against so many, all spit at him once he will drown in spit.

Can't imagine the amount of free time he has to troll around.

The word 'pathetic' is redefined by him.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by jojobeach @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:02:08 +0800

jojobeach — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:02:08 +0800

Originally posted by Pekei:

Have you try seeking help from the government before? Or are you making assumption that there is no help at all?

Pek,

How many more MRT suicides must we have, to realize that help is not all that available after all ?

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by maurizio13 @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:00:14 +0800

maurizio13 — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:00:14 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

How come Gazelle stop using Aelop and start using Pekei

Because there are too many people against P4P, he needs more clones to sound convincing lah. Have pity on him, only one mouth against so many, all spit at him once he will drown in spit.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Display Name @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:56:42 +0800

Display Name — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:56:42 +0800

Originally posted by Aelop:

Guess? What about Suharto? You think he can do a better job?

Don't involve LKY's good friend.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by eagle @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:13:57 +0800

eagle — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:13:57 +0800

How come Gazelle stop using Aelop and start using Pekei

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Pekei @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:56:59 +0800

Pekei — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:56:59 +0800

Originally posted by will4:

U should go n read PM Lee's speech in 06 which he said 800 locals migrated to other countries each year n MM Lee mentioning 1000 locals migrated to other countries n these are top people in the country. They r called talents.

Will4, are you a Singaporean?

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by will4 @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:53:11 +0800

will4 — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:53:11 +0800

Originally posted by breytonhartge:

not that I am saying that LHL is doing a good job all round, but its always easier to criticizse and point fingers...the grass IS always greener on the other side because it is an illusion.

U should go n read PM Lee's speech in 06 which he said 800 locals migrated to other countries each year n MM Lee mentioning 1000 locals migrated to other countries n these are top people in the country. They r called talents.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Pekei @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:53:21 +0800

Pekei — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:53:21 +0800

Originally posted by Civilgoh:

BIngo, jojo. If he wants, he can help, but it is up to him if he is willing. So far, what happen to the increase in 2% of GST to help the poor as he promised? REmember, he said he is not making Singapore a welfare state.

Have you try seeking help from the government before? Or are you making assumption that there is no help at all?

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Civilgoh @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:40:33 +0800

Civilgoh — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:40:33 +0800

Originally posted by jojobeach:

I suppose when he says "Poor".. he's really refering to the "poor" ministers who have not had their salary raised since donkey years ago eh ?

Poor ministers... too bad they can't go temple and get their free lunch.

They can go temples for free lunch, for face sake I believe they will not do so. May be you are right about the "poor" ministers. They sounded as if they were so very deprived of getting hight pay. $ comes before serving the people, public service is not top priority, really sad.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by jojobeach @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:38:32 +0800

jojobeach — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:38:32 +0800

Originally posted by Civilgoh:

BIngo, jojo. If he wants, he can help, but it is up to him if he is willing. So far, what happen to the increase in 2% of GST to help the poor as he promised? REmember, he said he is not making Singapore a welfare state.

I suppose when he says "Poor".. he's really refering to the "poor" ministers who have not had their salary raised since donkey years ago eh ?

Poor ministers... too bad they can't go temple and get their free lunch.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by ceecookie @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:32:38 +0800

ceecookie — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:32:38 +0800

Traditional British Government?

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Civilgoh @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:29:05 +0800

Civilgoh — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:29:05 +0800

Originally posted by jojobeach:

Being objective does not means being blind.

Look at what he has done so far.

Are the old and needy betta off than before ?

So the grass is not greener on the other side, but is he making your turf greener at all ?

Did he not mentioned before that he wants to be a " People's" PM... closing his eyes to the sufferings of the people is not being a people's PM now, is it ?

BIngo, jojo. If he wants, he can help, but it is up to him if he is willing. So far, what happen to the increase in 2% of GST to help the poor as he promised? REmember, he said he is not making Singapore a welfare state.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by jojobeach @ Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:14:37 +0800

jojobeach — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:14:37 +0800

Originally posted by breytonhartge:

not that I am saying that LHL is doing a good job all round, but its always easier to criticizse and point fingers...the grass IS always greener on the other side because it is an illusion.

Being objective does not means being blind.

Look at what he has done so far.

Are the old and needy betta off than before ?

So the grass is not greener on the other side, but is he making your turf greener at all ?

Did he not mentioned before that he wants to be a " People's" PM... closing his eyes to the sufferings of the people is not being a people's PM now, is it ?

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by eagle @ Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:23:30 +0800

eagle — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:23:30 +0800

Originally posted by breytonhartge:

not that I am saying that LHL is doing a good job all round, but its always easier to criticizse and point fingers...the grass IS always greener on the other side because it is an illusion.

This is an objective statement and I agree with it.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by breytonhartge @ Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:11:03 +0800

breytonhartge — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:11:03 +0800

Originally posted by jojobeach:

I think there is a betta PM other than LHL to lead the Gov.

Let's hold a Prime Ministerial Election.

not that I am saying that LHL is doing a good job all round, but its always easier to criticizse and point fingers...the grass IS always greener on the other side because it is an illusion.

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by pearlie27 @ Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:04:04 +0800

pearlie27 — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:04:04 +0800

Originally posted by Aelop:

If you think there is one, please share with us.

Of course not! LKY and LHL better not die if not we will all perish. Aelop why are you wasting time here you should be looking for elixir for them!

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by deathmaster @ Sun, 08 Jun 2008 18:43:02 +0800

deathmaster — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 18:43:02 +0800

Originally posted by will4:

US govt led by Democrat such as Bill Clinton n if u noticed, US economy is on the rise with govt formed by Democrat.

can try hiring him though. its alot cheaper.

Recent Posts in 'Is there a better gov to run Singapore?' | sgForums.com

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by will4 @ Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:45:34 +0800

Is there a better gov to run Singapore? replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:53:27 +0800

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