Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by redDUST @ Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:37:32 +0800

redDUST — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:37:32 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

. I believe redDust had such an experience before, when he registered newly and posted something good about the government, and was once accused of being Gazelle's clone.

yup, i have the famous qlpp to contend with then, even tho' i think he still exists in our midst, in the guise of a different nick. best part is i get more cordial treatment now.

seriously, there are a fair amount of good things that the ruling government did. my purpose is not to discuss this here. i would rather touch on things which i feel strongly that we have not make progress on. regardless, i am just an average joe blogg dispensing my views, they are by no means authoritative. they are subject to discussion or opposition, which i accept if they makes sense. i agree with you that stupidissmart is more rationally balanced even though he comes in from the position of pro-govt, just as i have on the opposite, generally speaking. but it doesn't mean we do not acknowledge the pros and cons that happened in this country.

there are that few `extremists' like a gazelle that makes this place alive. pro- or against- government, they make for good reading, and sometimes a good laugh when they write what they wrote.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by eagle @ Sun, 27 Jul 2008 09:16:21 +0800

eagle — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 09:16:21 +0800

Originally posted by sgdiehard:

I don't qualify myself as a PAP supporter, I support some of their policies wholeheartedly, I agree with them on some of their policies though I wish they could be more sensitive to the people, I believe there are much more they could do for Singapore and should not be complacent. I disagree with giving minister the very high salaries. I may have somethings in common with Gazelle and the like on government policies, but the languages, the approach in defence are never some of these.

I voted for WP, I support Sylvia, Low TK, but that definitely does not make in the same rank like Fangtagf, M13 and clones as opposition supporters.

Heh. I want to support WP because I supporter Sylvia too, but too bad, they didn't come to my constituency to campaign :(

Being in agreement or in disagreement on opinions is one thing. However, when some trolls made certain glaring mistakes and was pointed out, some trolls flared up and used even more uncouth words, instead of understanding and admitting the errors.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by Gutentaginator @ Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:46:50 +0800

Gutentaginator — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:46:50 +0800

Originally posted by sgdiehard:

I don't qualify myself as a PAP supporter, I support some of their policies wholeheartedly, I agree with them on some of their policies though I wish they could be more sensitive to the people, I believe there are much more they could do for Singapore and should not be complacent. I disagree with giving minister the very high salaries. I may have somethings in common with Gazelle and the like on government policies, but the languages, the approach in defence are never some of these.

I voted for WP, I support Sylvia, Low TK, but that definitely does not make in the same rank like Fangtagf, M13 and clones as opposition supporters.

There can be many reasons why different types of people , the 33.3% supported the Opposition.

1. Transparency

2. Accountability

3. Freedom of speech and assembly.

4. Social safety net / welfare

My friend who voted in singapore finds that despite economic capabililty (contributed by the people), the first 2 factors are important to him when he votes.

He feels that he knows what is missing in the system and having them will improve the system.

So, he feels that people should vote to improve the system and not just accept status quo. This can mean voting for the same party they voted before or giving a party more power to effect changes.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by sgdiehard @ Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:36:44 +0800

sgdiehard — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:36:44 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

I'm just wondering, how do you feel of Gazelle and clones as a fellow PAP supporter?

I don't qualify myself as a PAP supporter, I support some of their policies wholeheartedly, I agree with them on some of their policies though I wish they could be more sensitive to the people, I believe there are much more they could do for Singapore and should not be complacent. I disagree with giving minister the very high salaries. I may have somethings in common with Gazelle and the like on government policies, but the languages, the approach in defence are never some of these.

I voted for WP, I support Sylvia, Low TK, but that definitely does not make in the same rank like Fangtagf, M13 and clones as opposition supporters.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by eagle @ Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:31:01 +0800

eagle — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:31:01 +0800

Originally posted by PRP:

You said everyone speak the truth.I believe there are some members who sometimes don't speak the truth.

I don't want to take the touble to find who are the chaps who spoke untruthfully.

Actually, to be objective, the discussion I had with stupidissmart was far better than the likes of Gazelle and clones. Sure, there might be some heated exchanges here and there occasionally (which he would call 'resorting to attacks'), but nonetheless, he did made multiple valid points.

But I have the impression that he's a little stiff in some sense, and that he does tend to misunderstand my posts (and perhaps me misunderstand his too) in that short discussion we had recently.

I guess the "hostility" towards PAP supporters, especially newly registered posters, is due to Gazelle and his clones. I believe redDust had such an experience before, when he registered newly and posted something good about the government, and was once accused of being Gazelle's clone.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by eagle @ Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:21:22 +0800

eagle — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:21:22 +0800

robertteh,

don't twist my words to suit your agenda,

(Is PAP having an unfair advantage over all of us? Yes, very much so. It is a fact of life. )

(meaning the government can do as it likes to exploit the so-called unfair advantage over all?)

This is not included in the “words in my mouth”. But I have no disagreement with you on the understanding of my sentence.

(Even if they are not the government, PAP itself is a big organization with money and ability. If anybody think of taking on any big organization, a rich man, a lawyer (if you are not), then they have to know that these big organization, with big money, big knowledge…are unfair advantages against you from the very beginning. You have to find out how to tackle them.)

(meaning the rich and power can bully the weaker ones?)

Again, this is not taken from my post on “putting words in my mouth”. And what I said about the unequal distribution of wealth and power is a fact in life, isn’t it? But can the rich and power then BULLY the weaker ones? And will the rich and power then BULLY the weaker ones? The answer is not a definite yes, because there are other factors involved. I know for sure the common law protects the weak, especially the uneducated, poor and old women. You one of them? You interpreted my statement to your advantage, or should I say twisted?

(Go to the most democratic country in the world, the US. When you face the immigration officer and the custom officer, you will know that in the name of counter terrorism, they can subject you to any kind of searches and checks and fine. And if you are a Punjabi, or wear moustache, good luck. They are not our government, but I travel there with a passport that the US government recognizes, why should we be subjected to all these kind of harassment, all in the name of national security? Isn’t that what you hear in Singapore, all in the name of national stability?)

(Selective comparison again to avoid or deny problems ?)

Is it selective or a fact of life you chose to ignore because it doesn't support your agenda?

(There are many other examples. What you see, is that the Singaporeans, when faced with these angmoh, lan lan. but in Singapore, they would curse and swear at PAP.)

(Selective comparison with worse case scenarios elsewhere to avoid or deny problems?)

Worse case scenarios, but does it exist? or again it is a clear and simple fact that you chose not to admit?

(Don’t expect equal and level playing ground. When LKY was fighting against the colonial government, the Malaysian government, he did not have a level playing ground. Do you think Anwar has a level playing ground now? LKY had to have people like Goh KW, Toh CC, Rajaratnam…just to name a few. It may be difficult to find good people to join politics, is it because they prefer easy life making money? Or many of them already join PAP? And if you form an opposition with people like drawer, Fantagf, leeky, AndrewPKYap…and ask for a level playing ground, then the PAP will have to go underground, may be that is why they are wishing for the death of LKY and all…)

(Past success does not guarantee problems solutions for future? Occupying political office without new solutions is a great opportunity cost to the country)

No record of any success definitely do not guarantee problems solution for future! No office and no solutions is no position to even justify taking up any official and country’s time.

(Does PAP have the right to answer? Well I don’t want to speak for PAP, but I think everybody has the right to answer! No? It is from the answer that the audience get both sides of the story. Don’t doubt the intelligence of the people, we know what to think. The difference is some will accept some will not.)

(If PAP only has mandate to rule with reasons not to serve its own selfish agendas or deny problems with selective comparisons or hypocrisy)

There is no IF. The mandate is the same. Take note of my last sentence, don’t just read what you want to read.

(As for people like Deerhunter, you better wish they are more like him to speak for the PAP, then the votes would swing to the opposition. Hahaha….know why the PAP have been winning? Too much vulgarities and name callings from some opposition. The real opposition are people like Low, Sylvia, Chiam…and some others. They can stand in the parliament and spoke against the PAP, right at their nose, how to put the idea across, how to use the right words, definitely no vulgarities…how many of these opposition you had in mind that had this caliber? Chee SJ? hmmm….)

(Excuses given to cover up wrongful behavior or conduct of own camp? Selective praising of oppositions to divide and rule)

Excuses? Own camp? Selective praising…? Learn to accept others who are different from you and get a real life!

(We were never born equal, and in politics, it is worse….The Chinese says, “胜者为王，败者为寇.”At the end of the day, the百姓 are the one who truly suffer. If we are already suffering, we don’t want our suffering to get worse.

You have to prove to us what you have, not what PAP is not giving you.)

(Re-confirming your earlier admission the government is using its political power to bully the people who are loyal citizens giving their views to benefit all in nation building for the next era)

I know what how the country is built to what it is today. As a citizen of Singapore who makes the difference between the political parties and country, and am a loyal citizen of Singapore, I well come true views that benefit Singapore. The views from many people like you, that the PAP should fall, LKY and even his wife should die… are not accepted as beneficial to anybody, less the few of you, in nation building for the next era!

(As for people like Deerhunter, you better wish they are more like him to speak for the PAP, then the votes would swing to the opposition. Hahaha….know why the PAP have been winning? Too much vulgarities and name callings from some opposition. The real opposition are people like Low, Sylvia, Chiam…and some others. They can stand in the parliament and spoke against the PAP, right at their nose, how to put the idea across, how to use the right words, definitely no vulgarities…how many of these opposition you had in mind that had this caliber? Chee SJ? hmmm….)

I'm just wondering, how do you feel of Gazelle and clones as a fellow PAP supporter?

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by PRP @ Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:06:23 +0800

PRP — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:06:23 +0800

Originally posted by PRP:

Eited by me

Stevenson,

Surely,it can't be ALL members here are honest.Sometimes there are selfish interests involved.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by PRP @ Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:01:32 +0800

PRP — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:01:32 +0800

Stevenson,

Surely,ALL members here are honest.Sometimes there are selfish interests involved.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by robertteh @ Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:47:33 +0800

robertteh — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:47:33 +0800

Originally posted by sgdiehard:

robertteh,

don't twist my words to suit your agenda,

(Is PAP having an unfair advantage over all of us? Yes, very much so. It is a fact of life. )

(meaning the government can do as it likes to exploit the so-called unfair advantage over all?)

This is not included in the “words in my mouth”. But I have no disagreement with you on the understanding of my sentence.

(Even if they are not the government, PAP itself is a big organization with money and ability. If anybody think of taking on any big organization, a rich man, a lawyer (if you are not), then they have to know that these big organization, with big money, big knowledge…are unfair advantages against you from the very beginning. You have to find out how to tackle them.)

(meaning the rich and power can bully the weaker ones?)

Again, this is not taken from my post on “putting words in my mouth”. And what I said about the unequal distribution of wealth and power is a fact in life, isn’t it? But can the rich and power then BULLY the weaker ones? And will the rich and power then BULLY the weaker ones? The answer is not a definite yes, because there are other factors involved. I know for sure the common law protects the weak, especially the uneducated, poor and old women. You one of them? You interpreted my statement to your advantage, or should I say twisted?

REPLY: I do not have any agenda except as a loyal citizen with a view or sense of justice.

Do you know what is deduction? If you say government like a powerful organization has certain power or unfair advantage over the small and weaker people, what is the meaning of these words?

Does it not convey to the rational people that by virtue of that unfair advantage or power it could therefore by implication use the unfair advantage as it likes vis-a-vis the small people or ordinary citizens?

To avoid misquoting you I have actually produced your own words within brackets to let you better appreciate the possible deductions or interpretations of your exact words used. It my interpretations in that context is that of a rational reader how could I have misquoted you or put words into your mouth.

Just re-read the possible import or deductions of your words from the context in which you wrote them. See if I have substantially misquoted your choices of words out of their natural context?

The real issue today with regard to freedoms of expressions in the light of government taking over control of the mainstream media would only serve to support my reading of your words within those context written.

So read your own words carefully again to see if my interpretations of those words used is by inference the government will have the right or tendency to use of government's unfair power or unfair advantage to bully the citizens.

If you still think my interpretations are wrong or substantially out of your intended meaning then why do you go on inferring bigger corporations like the US immigration officers would use their power over the helpless Punjabi travellers if this is not to make your own intended meaning even clearer?

So have I interpreted your words substantially out of point or context?

(Go to the most democratic country in the world, the US. When you face the immigration officer and the custom officer, you will know that in the name of counter terrorism, they can subject you to any kind of searches and checks and fine. And if you are a Punjabi, or wear moustache, good luck. They are not our government, but I travel there with a passport that the US government recognizes, why should we be subjected to all these kind of harassment, all in the name of national security? Isn’t that what you hear in Singapore, all in the name of national stability?)

(Selective comparison again to avoid or deny problems ?)

Is it selective or a fact of life you chose to ignore because it doesn't support your agenda?

REPLY

The above-stated only serves to confirm that you have inferred that any one with power or unfair advantage will exert those power or unfair advantage to its own advantage. In other words power corrupts absolute power corrupts or tends to corrupt absolutely. Do you agree with such inference or deduction of your words about the use of immigration officers' power to his advantage over the weaker Punjabi travellers?

(There are many other examples. What you see, is that the Singaporeans, when faced with these angmoh, lan lan. but in Singapore, they would curse and swear at PAP.)

(Selective comparison with worse case scenarios elsewhere to avoid or deny problems?)

Worse case scenarios, but does it exist? or again it is a clear and simple fact that you chose not to admit?

REPLY

Haven't I replied you before that internet being the only available venue of communications among citizens the powerful government should not be so paranoid as to want to deny citizens of this only medium of communication giving all sorts of excuse like it has the right of reply to criticisms as it it has not hijacked the mainstream media for all the rights of reply it wishes to impose on citizens. So isn't it a case of government being too paranoid of any dissent in whatever media people may choose to communicate in. If this is the reasoning why not go to the coffee shops next and start talking back to the uncles for scolding the government for the right of reply to any such communications.

(Don’t expect equal and level playing ground. When LKY was fighting against the colonial government, the Malaysian government, he did not have a level playing ground. Do you think Anwar has a level playing ground now? LKY had to have people like Goh KW, Toh CC, Rajaratnam…just to name a few. It may be difficult to find good people to join politics, is it because they prefer easy life making money? Or many of them already join PAP? And if you form an opposition with people like drawer, Fantagf, leeky, AndrewPKYap…and ask for a level playing ground, then the PAP will have to go underground, may be that is why they are wishing for the death of LKY and all…)

(Past success does not guarantee problems solutions for future? Occupying political office without new solutions is a great opportunity cost to the country)

No record of any success definitely do not guarantee problems solution for future! No office and no solutions is no position to even justify taking up any official and country’s time.

REPLY

Does it mean that just because people disagree with government therefore they must be made to agree with your various views as posted failing which you would call them names or draw interpretations like you are drawing that they are up to no good as often slandered by you and deerhunter, gazelle or O o O.

One would have thought that Minister Teo Chee Hean has just announced recently that in future government will try not to use the common carrot and stick approach in presenting its views and policies but here you and the like of other undercover anonymous cyber-agents are precisely using undue pressure on people putting the government into bad image. By your inferrences to bigger corporations having unfair advantage over smaller weaker people you are implying that the government with such power or unfair advantage has the right to use them against smaller people like the citizens. With Suzhou local officer why not use its power and take them to court or some international forum over such unfair leasing of cheaper local industrial lands to compete with the Suzhou venture?

(Does PAP have the right to answer? Well I don’t want to speak for PAP, but I think everybody has the right to answer! No? It is from the answer that the audience get both sides of the story. Don’t doubt the intelligence of the people, we know what to think. The difference is some will accept some will not.)

(If PAP only has mandate to rule with reasons not to serve its own selfish agendas or deny problems with selective comparisons or hypocrisy)

There is no IF. The mandate is the same. Take note of my last sentence, don’t just read what you want to read.

REPLY

I will read of your words within the context of your words as posted drawing rational inference as it occurs to me as a rational reader of your words. Yes PAP has every right to answer to any criticisms but just keep in mind that it has become paranoid after taking fullest controls of broadcast and print media to purvey its propagandas it does not know what is enough and seems to be bent on carrying on suppressions totally forgetting the adage that if one kicks the dog to the wall is may well bite back.

(As for people like Deerhunter, you better wish they are more like him to speak for the PAP, then the votes would swing to the opposition. Hahaha….know why the PAP have been winning? Too much vulgarities and name callings from some opposition. The real opposition are people like Low, Sylvia, Chiam…and some others. They can stand in the parliament and spoke against the PAP, right at their nose, how to put the idea across, how to use the right words, definitely no vulgarities…how many of these opposition you had in mind that had this caliber? Chee SJ? hmmm….)

(Excuses given to cover up wrongful behavior or conduct of own camp? Selective praising of oppositions to divide and rule)

Excuses? Own camp? Selective praising…? Learn to accept others who are different from you and get a real life!

(We were never born equal, and in politics, it is worse….The Chinese says, “胜者为王，败者为寇.”At the end of the day, the百姓 are the one who truly suffer. If we are already suffering, we don’t want our suffering to get worse.

You have to prove to us what you have, not what PAP is not giving you.)

(Re-confirming your earlier admission the government is using its political power to bully the people who are loyal citizens giving their views to benefit all in nation building for the next era)

I know what how the country is built to what it is today. As a citizen of Singapore who makes the difference between the political parties and country, and am a loyal citizen of Singapore, I well come true views that benefit Singapore. The views from many people like you, that the PAP should fall, LKY and even his wife should die… are not accepted as beneficial to anybody, less the few of you, in nation building for the next era!

REPLY

You are being paranoid about forumers who posted their views here just because they do not agree with government's views or policies. There is nothing new. By your negative attitude towards the forumers they are not likely to agree with you or government policies more. If there is any goodness in your presence here please let us hear your substantive views based on logics and stop inferring that anyone who disagree with government policies are people up to no good. For your information I have never posted any article wishing any body dead or bad. If Minister Teo Chee Hian is to be taken for his words he has said recently that the government will try in future to avoid using the carot and stick approach in presenting its policies in future. If that has the true meaning of change for the better, you should stop all these pressure on forumers to agree with your posts or slander people with name calling as you deerhunter and gazelle seem to be doing here.

You have stated many times just because the government's has been elected or deemed to be elected due to GRC walkovers it seems to be having the right or power to do as it likes because of its mandate of being elected.

My interpretation is that The fact it is elected does not automatically give the government carte blanche power to use its position as government to unfair advantage does it?

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by sgdiehard @ Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:19:29 +0800

sgdiehard — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:19:29 +0800

Originally posted by robertteh:

Sgdiehard,

Since you say I have misquoted you I will just reproduce your own posts (within brackets) in full to show whether I have paraphrased (shown in underlined) your remarks correctly as saying you have admitted or asserted directly or indirectly the government will use its power as it likes to deal with dissent, control the media and sue oppositions in the course of electioneering or now it is using cyber-agents to intimidate forumers in the internet for exposing wrongfulness of the government.

(Is PAP having an unfair advantage over all of us? Yes, very much so. It is a fact of life. )

(meaning the government can do as it likes to exploit the so-called unfair advantage over all?)

(Even if they are not the government, PAP itself is a big organization with money and ability. If anybody think of taking on any big organization, a rich man, a lawyer (if you are not), then they have to know that these big organization, with big money, big knowledge…are unfair advantages against you from the very beginning. You have to find out how to tackle them.)

(meaning the rich and power can bully the weaker ones?)

(Go to the most democratic country in the world, the US. When you face the immigration officer and the custom officer, you will know that in the name of counter terrorism, they can subject you to any kind of searches and checks and fine. And if you are a Punjabi, or wear moustache, good luck. They are not our government, but I travel there with a passport that the US government recognizes, why should we be subjected to all these kind of harassment, all in the name of national security? Isn’t that what you hear in Singapore, all in the name of national stability?)

(Selective comparison again to avoid or deny problems ?)

(There are many other examples. What you see, is that the Singaporeans, when faced with these angmoh, lan lan. but in Singapore, they would curse and swear at PAP.)

(Selective comparison with worse case scenarios elsewhere to avoid or deny problems?)

(Don’t expect equal and level playing ground. When LKY was fighting against the colonial government, the Malaysian government, he did not have a level playing ground. Do you think Anwar has a level playing ground now? LKY had to have people like Goh KW, Toh CC, Rajaratnam…just to name a few. It may be difficult to find good people to join politics, is it because they prefer easy life making money? Or many of them already join PAP? And if you form an opposition with people like drawer, Fantagf, leeky, AndrewPKYap…and ask for a level playing ground, then the PAP will have to go underground, may be that is why they are wishing for the death of LKY and all…)

(Past success does not guarantee problems solutions for future? Occupying political office without new solutions is a great opportunity cost to the country)

(Does PAP have the right to answer? Well I don’t want to speak for PAP, but I think everybody has the right to answer! No? It is from the answer that the audience get both sides of the story. Don’t doubt the intelligence of the people, we know what to think. The difference is some will accept some will not.)

(If PAP only has mandate to rule with reasons not to serve its own selfish agendas or deny problems with selective comparisons or hypocrisy)

(As for people like Deerhunter, you better wish they are more like him to speak for the PAP, then the votes would swing to the opposition. Hahaha….know why the PAP have been winning? Too much vulgarities and name callings from some opposition. The real opposition are people like Low, Sylvia, Chiam…and some others. They can stand in the parliament and spoke against the PAP, right at their nose, how to put the idea across, how to use the right words, definitely no vulgarities…how many of these opposition you had in mind that had this caliber? Chee SJ? hmmm….)

(Excuses given to cover up wrongful behavior or conduct of own camp? Selective praising of oppositions to divide and rule)

(We were never born equal, and in politics, it is worse….The Chinese says, “胜者为王，败者为寇.”At the end of the day, the百姓 are the one who truly suffer. If we are already suffering, we don’t want our suffering to get worse.

You have to prove to us what you have, not what PAP is not giving you.)

(Re-confirming your earlier admission the government is using its political power to bully the people who are loyal citizens giving their views to benefit all in nation building for the next era)

robertteh,

don't twist my words to suit your agenda,

(Is PAP having an unfair advantage over all of us? Yes, very much so. It is a fact of life. )

(meaning the government can do as it likes to exploit the so-called unfair advantage over all?)

This is not included in the “words in my mouth”. But I have no disagreement with you on the understanding of my sentence.

(Even if they are not the government, PAP itself is a big organization with money and ability. If anybody think of taking on any big organization, a rich man, a lawyer (if you are not), then they have to know that these big organization, with big money, big knowledge…are unfair advantages against you from the very beginning. You have to find out how to tackle them.)

(meaning the rich and power can bully the weaker ones?)

Again, this is not taken from my post on “putting words in my mouth”. And what I said about the unequal distribution of wealth and power is a fact in life, isn’t it? But can the rich and power then BULLY the weaker ones? And will the rich and power then BULLY the weaker ones? The answer is not a definite yes, because there are other factors involved. I know for sure the common law protects the weak, especially the uneducated, poor and old women. You one of them? You interpreted my statement to your advantage, or should I say twisted?

(Go to the most democratic country in the world, the US. When you face the immigration officer and the custom officer, you will know that in the name of counter terrorism, they can subject you to any kind of searches and checks and fine. And if you are a Punjabi, or wear moustache, good luck. They are not our government, but I travel there with a passport that the US government recognizes, why should we be subjected to all these kind of harassment, all in the name of national security? Isn’t that what you hear in Singapore, all in the name of national stability?)

(Selective comparison again to avoid or deny problems ?)

Is it selective or a fact of life you chose to ignore because it doesn't support your agenda?

(There are many other examples. What you see, is that the Singaporeans, when faced with these angmoh, lan lan. but in Singapore, they would curse and swear at PAP.)

(Selective comparison with worse case scenarios elsewhere to avoid or deny problems?)

Worse case scenarios, but does it exist? or again it is a clear and simple fact that you chose not to admit?

(Don’t expect equal and level playing ground. When LKY was fighting against the colonial government, the Malaysian government, he did not have a level playing ground. Do you think Anwar has a level playing ground now? LKY had to have people like Goh KW, Toh CC, Rajaratnam…just to name a few. It may be difficult to find good people to join politics, is it because they prefer easy life making money? Or many of them already join PAP? And if you form an opposition with people like drawer, Fantagf, leeky, AndrewPKYap…and ask for a level playing ground, then the PAP will have to go underground, may be that is why they are wishing for the death of LKY and all…)

(Past success does not guarantee problems solutions for future? Occupying political office without new solutions is a great opportunity cost to the country)

No record of any success definitely do not guarantee problems solution for future! No office and no solutions is no position to even justify taking up any official and country’s time.

(Does PAP have the right to answer? Well I don’t want to speak for PAP, but I think everybody has the right to answer! No? It is from the answer that the audience get both sides of the story. Don’t doubt the intelligence of the people, we know what to think. The difference is some will accept some will not.)

(If PAP only has mandate to rule with reasons not to serve its own selfish agendas or deny problems with selective comparisons or hypocrisy)

There is no IF. The mandate is the same. Take note of my last sentence, don’t just read what you want to read.

(As for people like Deerhunter, you better wish they are more like him to speak for the PAP, then the votes would swing to the opposition. Hahaha….know why the PAP have been winning? Too much vulgarities and name callings from some opposition. The real opposition are people like Low, Sylvia, Chiam…and some others. They can stand in the parliament and spoke against the PAP, right at their nose, how to put the idea across, how to use the right words, definitely no vulgarities…how many of these opposition you had in mind that had this caliber? Chee SJ? hmmm….)

(Excuses given to cover up wrongful behavior or conduct of own camp? Selective praising of oppositions to divide and rule)

Excuses? Own camp? Selective praising…? Learn to accept others who are different from you and get a real life!

(We were never born equal, and in politics, it is worse….The Chinese says, “胜者为王，败者为寇.”At the end of the day, the百姓 are the one who truly suffer. If we are already suffering, we don’t want our suffering to get worse.

You have to prove to us what you have, not what PAP is not giving you.)

(Re-confirming your earlier admission the government is using its political power to bully the people who are loyal citizens giving their views to benefit all in nation building for the next era)

I know what how the country is built to what it is today. As a citizen of Singapore who makes the difference between the political parties and country, and am a loyal citizen of Singapore, I well come true views that benefit Singapore. The views from many people like you, that the PAP should fall, LKY and even his wife should die… are not accepted as beneficial to anybody, less the few of you, in nation building for the next era!

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by Stevenson101 @ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:33:29 +0800

Stevenson101 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:33:29 +0800

You said everyone speak the truth.I believe there are some members who sometimes don't speak the truth.

I don't want to take the touble to find who are the chaps who spoke untruthfully.

Hrm what you mean? You mean when they say something they blatantly know it's not the truth or they think that's the truth but it's not true according to you?

There's a tat of a difference there.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by PRP @ Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:30:01 +0800

PRP — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:30:01 +0800

Originally posted by stupidissmart:

So who r u implying to be speaking dishonestly and insincerely.

You said everyone speak the truth.I believe there are some members who sometimes don't speak the truth.

I don't want to take the touble to find who are the chaps who spoke untruthfully.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by robertteh @ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:46:45 +0800

robertteh — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:46:45 +0800

Sgdiehard,

Since you say I have misquoted you I will just reproduce your own posts (within brackets) in full to show whether I have paraphrased (shown in underlined) your remarks correctly as saying you have admitted or asserted directly or indirectly the government will use its power as it likes to deal with dissent, control the media and sue oppositions in the course of electioneering or now it is using cyber-agents to intimidate forumers in the internet for exposing wrongfulness of the government.

(Is PAP having an unfair advantage over all of us? Yes, very much so. It is a fact of life. )

(meaning the government can do as it likes to exploit the so-called unfair advantage over all?)

(meaning the rich and power can bully the weaker ones?)

(Selective comparison again to avoid or deny problems ?)

(There are many other examples. What you see, is that the Singaporeans, when faced with these angmoh, lan lan. but in Singapore, they would curse and swear at PAP.)

(Selective comparison with worse case scenarios elsewhere to avoid or deny problems?)

(Past success does not guarantee problems solutions for future? Occupying political office without new solutions is a great opportunity cost to the country)

(If PAP only has mandate to rule with reasons not to serve its own selfish agendas or deny problems with selective comparisons or hypocrisy)

(Excuses given to cover up wrongful behavior or conduct of own camp? Selective praising of oppositions to divide and rule)

You have to prove to us what you have, not what PAP is not giving you.)

(Re-confirming your earlier admission the government is using its political power to bully the people who are loyal citizens giving their views to benefit all in nation building for the next era)

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by O o O @ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:44:52 +0800

O o O — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:44:52 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

Gazelle is back to spoil the thread

Are you bored again?

Originally posted by eagle:

I'm bored and feel like starting a new thread...

Just wondering about this question after seeing the Fantasized about your friend? thread.

How would you approach your friend for any sexual activity supposed you really want it?

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by Fantagf @ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:53:21 +0800

Fantagf — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:53:21 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

Gazelle is back to spoil the thread

He posted this in another thread. Eagle, you are the most hated to him, he is back to get you. ha ha ha . Trolling is entertainment to him.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by Fantagf @ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:52:15 +0800

Fantagf — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:52:15 +0800

TS, please direct this to trolls.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by eagle @ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:42:53 +0800

eagle — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:42:53 +0800

Gazelle is back to spoil the thread

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by O o O @ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:41:34 +0800

O o O — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:41:34 +0800

Can someone guess who is this?

2001
What is love? (want to know if he is falling in love)
What do u look for in ur life partners? (want to know how to choose girl)
What do gals do when they show interest? (want to know is any girls like him)
Gals, how would u prefer to be ask out on a date? (Want to learn how to date a girl)

2002
Guys, how wil u choose? (how lian, want to tell other he has choice!!)
How do u tell ur parents you got gf? (planning forward, because he anticipate that he will want to bring gf back to make out)
Love at first sight (still living in his little fantasy)

2007
How would you ask your friend for any sexual activity? (horny bastard want to ask girl for sex)
How much money to do you need to get married? (thinking of getting married when he is still a student? maybe thinking of using marriage to hold on to her gf)
Reasons why you would go for Singles Club outing (want to know if he is the only one looking for sex)
Are you attracted by intelligence (he doesnt have charm and want to know if by studying hard will it attract opposite sex)
It is the fear of rejection (Still struggling, no balls to approach chic)
Reason why there are matchmakers (Trying to find out if there is a need to go to one in future)
Define girly / manly (Some girls must have commented that he is girly)
Being single or attached (asking if being single is ok)
10 Things You Must Know About Fat Loss (Trying to look manly because he is one fat cubby mama's boy)
Lucky Singles Club not Desperate Club (Trying to assure himself he is not desperate)
Supposed you are attached what would you do to hold on to your girl/guy? (GF is leaving him, want to know who to hold her back)

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by eagle @ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:40:42 +0800

eagle — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:40:42 +0800

Originally posted by sgdiehard:

Is PAP having an unfair advantage over all of us? Yes, very much so. It is a fact of life. Even if they are not the government, PAP itself is a big organization with money and ability. If anybody think of taking on any big organization, a rich man, a lawyer (if you are not), then they have to know that these big organization, with big money, big knowledge…are unfair advantages against you from the very beginning. You have to find out how to tackle them.

Go to the most democratic country in the world, the US. When you face the immigration officer and the custom officer, you will know that in the name of counter terrorism, they can subject you to any kind of searches and checks and fine. And if you are a Punjabi, or wear moustache, good luck. They are not our government, but I travel there with a passport that the US government recognizes, why should we be subjected to all these kind of harassment, all in the name of national security? Isn’t that what you hear in Singapore, all in the name of national stability?

There are many other examples. What you see, is that the Singaporeans, when faced with these angmoh, lan lan. but in Singapore, they would curse and swear at PAP.

Don’t expect equal and level playing ground. When LKY was fighting against the colonial government, the Malaysian government, he did not have a level playing ground. Do you think Anwar has a level playing ground now? LKY had to have people like Goh KW, Toh CC, Rajaratnam…just to name a few. It may be difficult to find good people to join politics, is it because they prefer easy life making money? Or many of them already join PAP? And if you form an opposition with people like drawer, Fantagf, leeky, AndrewPKYap…and ask for a level playing ground, then the PAP will have to go underground, may be that is why they are wishing for the death of LKY and all…

Does PAP have the right to answer? Well I don’t want to speak for PAP, but I think everybody has the right to answer! No? It is from the answer that the audience get both sides of the story. Don’t doubt the intelligence of the people, we know what to think. The difference is some will accept some will not.

As for people like Deerhunter, you better wish they are more like him to speak for the PAP, then the votes would swing to the opposition. Hahaha….know why the PAP have been winning? Too much vulgarities and name callings from some opposition. The real opposition are people like Low, Sylvia, Chiam…and some others. They can stand in the parliament and spoke against the PAP, right at their nose, how to put the idea across, how to use the right words, definitely no vulgarities…how many of these opposition you had in mind that had this caliber? Chee SJ? hmmm….

We were never born equal, and in politics, it is worse….The Chinese says, “胜者为王，败者为寇.”At the end of the day, the百姓 are the one who truly suffer. If we are already suffering, we don’t want our suffering to get worse.

You have to prove to us what you have, not what PAP is not giving you.

As for people like Deerhunter, you better wish they are more like him to speak for the PAP, then the votes would swing to the opposition. Hahaha….know why the PAP have been winning? Too much vulgarities and name callings from some opposition. The real opposition are people like Low, Sylvia, Chiam…and some others. They can stand in the parliament and spoke against the PAP, right at their nose, how to put the idea across, how to use the right words, definitely no vulgarities…how many of these opposition you had in mind that had this caliber? Chee SJ? hmmm….

So true... But can't deny that CSJ do have some points at some time... Somehow DeerHunter is very similar to CSJ; able to offer valid points at time, but just have to include name calling within the points.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by sgdiehard @ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:58:06 +0800

sgdiehard — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:58:06 +0800

Originally posted by robertteh:

So you have accepted my view that the government is being paranoid in wanting to have complete control over the internet views of people as well by sending under-cover agents to intimidate them with name calling like deerhunter and gazelle and the like.

It is also to be noted from what you are now saying that it is a government which does not shy from abuse of power in whatever form whether in the realm of information control or use or misuse of civil libel for political persecution of oppositions like Tang Liang Hong or resorting to hypocrisy and propaganda to get what it wants to the exclusion of all else like the real problems belying NKF or Shin Corp or Mas Selamat. You have just confirmed people's fear that it has become a monster with its own agendas fixated to its own self-important belief in "winner takes all" paraphrased from your own quote in Chinese.

The long and short of all your views is it is no longer a government which was once elected to serve the people's interest with honor and civility but one which exists by its own power that all agenda.

Wou, wou…hold on a minute, you are putting words in my mouth. I reserve my right to respond, paranoid or not.

Since when did I say that “government is being paranoid in wanting to have complete control over the internet views of people as well by sending under-cover agents to intimidate them with name calling like deerhunter and gazelle and the like”? Everybody has the right to air their views, and to reply, especially to willful and wrong accusation!! Did I ever say that deerhunter and gazelle and the like were from the government? Or did I say that the like of you, drawer, Fantagf, leeky, AndrewPKYap are coming from the WP or Chee? Can you accept that there are many true blue Singaporean who support the government?

Did I ever say or in anyway imply that “it is a government which does not shy from abuse of power in whatever form whether in the realm of information control or use of misuse of civil libel for political persecution of oppositions ….”? If your fist is only the size of my little finger, don’t expect me to fight with you with my little finger. If you don’t understand this, you probably enjoyed being punched, but don’t put words in my mouth.

I did not confirmed “people’s fear that it has become a monster with its own agendas..” There are many people who are bigger than me, who are wealthier than me, …even my neighbor has now built a bigger house than me,…they do not then become monsters. It is only people like you who think you are mightier than all, then anybody bigger than you, better than you are deemed monster.

The government of Singapore is elected one every four years and the people of Singapore elected the PAP to power and gave them the mandate to run Singapore. At the same time, some capable opposition members with good track records were also elected to give the government some different views. Even some opposition members, such as Sylvia, had collected significant votes to encourage them to continue with their good work in Singapore.

Honestly, with opposition like you, it does not need a strong power for the PAP to “exist by its own power”. But it is you who continue to exist to be 寇, by your own doing.

Don’t put words into my mouth. Find your own idea!!

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by robertteh @ Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:10:06 +0800

robertteh — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:10:06 +0800

Originally posted by stupidissmart:

tat is true... But I also have the right to express my thoughts and I just find tat many replies... largely similar...

your latest reply is different though...

It is evident that you are speaking in double tongue.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by stupidissmart @ Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:45:13 +0800

stupidissmart — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:45:13 +0800

tat is true... But I also have the right to express my thoughts and I just find tat many replies... largely similar...

your latest reply is different though...

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by robertteh @ Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:28:46 +0800

robertteh — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:28:46 +0800

Originally posted by stupidissmart:

don't know about tis but...

doesn't all the replies u made in the recent threads look the same...

You have just emphasised in other posts that all have the freedoms to air their views and all are equal in such net forum whether they are replyng to LKY or Bush here so it makes no difference whether someone here is here posting views or counter views here as undercover agents on behalf of ministers even if such agents were seen to use vulgarities or name calling to intimidate forumers.

If you are holding such a view sincerely and honestly why are you worry about my views as being the same in all my recent thread. Just let these views stand on their own head for people other than you will surely disagree with them if they are wrongful or unjustifiable.

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by stupidissmart @ Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:17:22 +0800

stupidissmart — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:17:22 +0800

don't know about tis but...

doesn't all the replies u made in the recent threads look the same...

Speak the truths but don't be insulting & partisan replied by robertteh @ Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:00:30 +0800

robertteh — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:00:30 +0800

Originally posted by sgdiehard:

Is PAP having an unfair advantage over all of us? Yes, very much so. It is a fact of life. Even if they are not the government, PAP itself is a big organization with money and ability. If anybody think of taking on any big organization, a rich man, a lawyer (if you are not), then they have to know that these big organization, with big money, big knowledge…are unfair advantages against you from the very beginning. You have to find out how to tackle them.

Go to the most democratic country in the world, the US. When you face the immigration officer and the custom officer, you will know that in the name of counter terrorism, they can subject you to any kind of searches and checks and fine. And if you are a Punjabi, or wear moustache, good luck. They are not our government, but I travel there with a passport that the US government recognizes, why should we be subjected to all these kind of harassment, all in the name of national security? Isn’t that what you hear in Singapore, all in the name of national stability?

There are many other examples. What you see, is that the Singaporeans, when faced with these angmoh, lan lan. but in Singapore, they would curse and swear at PAP.

Don’t expect equal and level playing ground. When LKY was fighting against the colonial government, the Malaysian government, he did not have a level playing ground. Do you think Anwar has a level playing ground now? LKY had to have people like Goh KW, Toh CC, Rajaratnam…just to name a few. It may be difficult to find good people to join politics, is it because they prefer easy life making money? Or many of them already join PAP? And if you form an opposition with people like drawer, Fantagf, leeky, AndrewPKYap…and ask for a level playing ground, then the PAP will have to go underground, may be that is why they are wishing for the death of LKY and all…

Does PAP have the right to answer? Well I don’t want to speak for PAP, but I think everybody has the right to answer! No? It is from the answer that the audience get both sides of the story. Don’t doubt the intelligence of the people, we know what to think. The difference is some will accept some will not.

As for people like Deerhunter, you better wish they are more like him to speak for the PAP, then the votes would swing to the opposition. Hahaha….know why the PAP have been winning? Too much vulgarities and name callings from some opposition. The real opposition are people like Low, Sylvia, Chiam…and some others. They can stand in the parliament and spoke against the PAP, right at their nose, how to put the idea across, how to use the right words, definitely no vulgarities…how many of these opposition you had in mind that had this caliber? Chee SJ? hmmm….

We were never born equal, and in politics, it is worse….The Chinese says, “胜者为王，败者为寇.”At the end of the day, the百姓 are the one who truly suffer. If we are already suffering, we don’t want our suffering to get worse.

You have to prove to us what you have, not what PAP is not giving you.

So you have accepted my view that the government is being paranoid in wanting to have complete control over the internet views of people as well by sending under-cover agents to intimidate them with name calling like deerhunter and gazelle and the like.

It is also to be noted from what you are now saying that it is a government which does not shy from abuse of power in whatever form whether in the realm of information control or use or misuse of civil libel for political persecution of oppositions like Tang Liang Hong or resorting to hypocrisy and propaganda to get what it wants to the exclusion of all else like the real problems belying NKF or Shin Corp or Mas Selamat. You have just confirmed people's fear that it has become a monster with its own agendas fixated to its own self-important belief in "winner takes all" paraphrased from your own quote in Chinese.

The long and short of all your views is it is no longer a government which was once elected to serve the people's interest with honor and civility but one which exists by its own power that all agenda.

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