Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by eagle @ Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:22:56 +0800

eagle — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:22:56 +0800

1. Why the increase in GST to pay for social spending when you could still get 6 billion surplus?

GST monies would help to fund them, give their kids a good education and escape the poverty trap.

The subsidies did not increase even though sch fees has increased (for unis)

In addition, why increase GST when there's an onset of inflation? If you have realised, GST has been raised almost every year after election. The timing is definitely worth a look.

1991 election
1994 GST 3%

1997 election
Wait and see public reaction

2001 election
2003 GST to 4%
2004 GST to 5%

2006 election
2007 GST to 7%

So? Can we expect this next?
2011 election
2012 GST to 8%????

2. Increase in ERP

You don't escape such charges even if you take public transport. They will be reflected in the fare prices sooner or later. Our public transport is not only inefficient, it is also aiming to be profit-making.

3. CDCs

You think it is enough? I personally know of a Malay female security guard who has to work 12 hours a day to feed her children and send them to school. CDC's offer was to give her children free tuition, but the distance was so far that it is time-consuming and not ecnomical to do so.

$6 billion surplus, they should take out a million sgd to give to these people.

4. Increase in ministerial salaries

Ya la, seems like our ministers need to be so highly paid so as not to be corrupt. Do they really have a tendency to be corrupt at low wages if they are there for the sake of Singapore?

The main problem is that the salaries are pegged to the top earners. It's much simpler for them to 'attract' high salaries earners to stay here than to lift the wages of the lower earners. There would definitely be less complains if their salaries were pegged a multiple of the average low wage earner. That way, they would increase their salaries because the average low wager earner has increased their salaries by quite an amount, and not because the top earners has increased their earnings by a lot a lot.

You and I also know that if we just cut a total of $1 million a year from all the ministers, those who need help from the CDCs would have more than $300.

Afterall, the government is voted in to help everyone, not just help the top earners.

5. Fighting inflation

No comments

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by maurizio13 @ Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:21:34 +0800

maurizio13 — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:21:34 +0800

Originally posted by DeerHunter:

First off - we all ARE losers, not only those who are needy, for we live in a society where the strong protects the weak and not one where the strongest survive and win all, to hell with the weak.

Our society will not and never will abandon the weak, children, women and our elderly, just as our previous generation had proven and provided us with our todays.

The US$300 billion dollars in reserve comprises of tax revenues, investment returns as well as a large significant portion that is CPF. Do be aware that the CPF monies must not only be returned, it must be returned back to the depositors WITH interest. While not ALL must be returned within the same second, there is a responsibility that only a small amount be allowed for investments to generate saving interest returns.

Thus, in terms of actual figure for social spending, it would not be enough to fund everything each year- birth of a Spore child to the last gasp of our elderly with the best medical care, as much as we want to, unless we increase our tax base or GST. We own no natural resources to depend on, except ourselves. I wish too, there are other ways..

2. Increase in ERP.

I do not agree that it is a regressive policy. Road tax, though still present, will be lowered. COE, PARF is still under consideration. However, car ownership aspirations must be tampared with reality of our small land size. There are other owners of Singapore who don't own a car, so what about them?

One car or taxi with 1 person takes up 5m long space on our road. A bus with 40 persons takes up only 10m long space. What would be a fair and equitable solution to meet our transportation needs? I own a car, and i believe ERP is currently the best viable solution for now. Pay more if you want to occupy a space that could have took 10 persons. If you don't really need a car, don't buy one, or go for weekend car to satisfy that car aspiration. Car owners or public transport passengers, we are all Spore citizens sharing the same land.

4. Ministerial Salaries. I will not question your beliefs in this matter. It has already been probably too debated already to add anymore new insights.

5. Fighting inflation. How does bringing in more foreign workers fight inflation?

If one has no job, inflation doesnt matter for he can't afford anything and must starve to death. But if he at least have a job, he won't starve. Just that he will not be able to afford better materials. With more jobs created, it would mean chances of landing a better salary job with an increase in pay. Without job creation, we will not only see stagnation in salary opportunities, but also job loss as well in this current downturning time. Furthermore, the govt had handed out grants to upgrade anyone who wish to, and with skill upgrades, so does salary. With salary increases, there will be less fear of inflation.

As for FT/FW social problems, it is not an unsurmountable issue, at least not as fearsome as having no jobs or losing jobs for locals if they are not in our shores.

1) Oh yes, the CPF funds with characteristics of an insurance scheme, but with payouts equivalent to bond rates. Take the money invest in the equity market, make annualised average returns of 10% to 15%, pay off the depressed 2.5% to 4% interest rate due to CPF account holders, pocket the 10%.

2) ERP a solution to traffic congestion? It's more like a money making device. Since the inception of ERP, has there been an improvement in traffic congestion? Everybody who drives know the answer to his question. You have an extremely skewed imagination. ERP wasn't about traffic management, it's another form of tax much like GST.

You put 100 mice in a small room, you restrict the movement of the mice to half the room, the mice are just going to congregate in the other half of the room. No crowding in the restricted half, but crowding in the other half.

5) What makes you think that there won't be any job if we don't bring in cheap foreigners? Is there empirical evidence that we will lose those jobs? Even if those jobs were lost, it's shows a lack of foresight in the ruling regime, because they failed to see the structural shift in global economy from a manufacturing base to a high skilled info based economy. The ruling elites lack the foresight to implement all those Biotech industry before the shake up of the global economy. Paying them multi million dollar salaries per person and all they could do is to emulate other advanced capitalist economies. Even a chimpanzee is able to mimic.

Another grave error in LKY's policy is the restriction of University Education. A believe that only a small percentage of the population would be University graduates while the greater majority would work in lower skilled jobs. This has created a shortage of University graduates, resulting in the local industry taking in more foreign talent graduates. If the policy of LKY was to have more University graduates, then perhaps we would have lower reliance on foreign talent graduates and only import foreign talents to fill the lower skilled jobs like construction.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by DeerHunter @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:49:54 +0800

DeerHunter — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:49:54 +0800

Originally posted by flabber:

It seems strange for you to be replying to me, feels as though its a case of cloning but I shan't speculate. With regards to your policies,

1. Increase in GST. Singaporeans already contribute to CPF coupled with the existing GST. It is also a known fact that we charge the one of the highest amount of taxes for alcohol and cigarettes. Our "losers"(according to our MM) do contribute to GST too. If the true motive is to prevent the expansion of the income gap? Shouldn't there be a more effective way which would exempt those whom the government aims to bring out of the poverty trap? How much is enough? With our reserves and state owned companies not enough for such funding?

2. Increase in ERP. Yes, I agree, Singapore is small and owning a car is a luxury to some extent. But you do realise that with exhorbitant road taxes and the COE which is Unique Singapore, we're paying a heft price for such a luxury already. If the true motive of putting up more ERP gantries is to improve the flow of traffic, should something more effecient such as improving our road infrastructure be implemented? To increase ERP charges together with more gantries in itself is a regressive policy. Furthermore, ERP charges also bear down on taxi passengers. Coupled with increase in taxi fares, I wonder how badly cabbies are affected.

3. CDC. I concur that these one stop CDCs do assist our people in one way or another, however please refer to point 1 as stated. There should be better ways to assist our people.

4. Ministerial Salaries. Here we go again. The main idea that the government tries to drive home to justify their wages is to prevent corruption and attract talent into our civil SERVICE. I agree that our ministers need to be well paid and well fed, but how much is enough? 6 times that of Mr. George Bush? Thats ridiculous! Some say that in itself is open corruption, but I will stop short of making such allegations or "slander" as a certain someone on these boards would put it. If we need to fork out such astronomical sums to attract talent into our civil SERVICE, I question where their allegiance lies. Their own interests and pockets or the interests of the public of whom they are duty bound to render their SERVICE. Please take note that they are serving their country and people and that in itself should take precedence over monetary gains.

5. Fighting inflation. How does bringing in more foreign workers fight inflation? You claim that these foreign workers create employment opportunites for locals, but is that really the case? Even if that holds true, any employment they create in itself is cancelled off by the ones that they hold. Coupled with the host of social problems that we all associate with them especially the PRCs, is it really a wise move?

First off - we all ARE losers, not only those who are needy, for we live in a society where the strong protects the weak and not one where the strongest survive and win all, to hell with the weak.

Our society will not and never will abandon the weak, children, women and our elderly, just as our previous generation had proven and provided us with our todays.

The US$300 billion dollars in reserve comprises of tax revenues, investment returns as well as a large significant portion that is CPF. Do be aware that the CPF monies must not only be returned, it must be returned back to the depositors WITH interest. While not ALL must be returned within the same second, there is a responsibility that only a small amount be allowed for investments to generate saving interest returns.

Thus, in terms of actual figure for social spending, it would not be enough to fund everything each year- birth of a Spore child to the last gasp of our elderly with the best medical care, as much as we want to, unless we increase our tax base or GST. We own no natural resources to depend on, except ourselves. I wish too, there are other ways..

2. Increase in ERP.

I do not agree that it is a regressive policy. Road tax, though still present, will be lowered. COE, PARF is still under consideration. However, car ownership aspirations must be tampared with reality of our small land size. There are other owners of Singapore who don't own a car, so what about them?

One car or taxi with 1 person takes up 5m long space on our road. A bus with 40 persons takes up only 10m long space. What would be a fair and equitable solution to meet our transportation needs? I own a car, and i believe ERP is currently the best viable solution for now. Pay more if you want to occupy a space that could have took 10 persons. If you don't really need a car, don't buy one, or go for weekend car to satisfy that car aspiration. Car owners or public transport passengers, we are all Spore citizens sharing the same land.

4. Ministerial Salaries. I will not question your beliefs in this matter. It has already been probably too debated already to add anymore new insights.

5. Fighting inflation. How does bringing in more foreign workers fight inflation?

If one has no job, inflation doesnt matter for he can't afford anything and must starve to death. But if he at least have a job, he won't starve. Just that he will not be able to afford better materials. With more jobs created, it would mean chances of landing a better salary job with an increase in pay. Without job creation, we will not only see stagnation in salary opportunities, but also job loss as well in this current downturning time. Furthermore, the govt had handed out grants to upgrade anyone who wish to, and with skill upgrades, so does salary. With salary increases, there will be less fear of inflation.

As for FT/FW social problems, it is not an unsurmountable issue, at least not as fearsome as having no jobs or losing jobs for locals if they are not in our shores.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by Civilgoh @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:18:50 +0800

Civilgoh — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:18:50 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

Seems like TS is finding it extremely difficult to present any track record

ha ha

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by DeerHunter @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:12:43 +0800

DeerHunter — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:12:43 +0800

Originally posted by Spartans:

Wow you are basically insinuating that some of the forumers are slanders and whiners.

But you need to remember one thing. They are NOT paid millions of dollar to come up with effective measures.

Spartans,

I didn't mentioned names and yet those slanderers are ready to put words in my mouth. If you read that sentence,sequentially I only meant those in service, more so those civil servants and opposition MPs. These people are paid a fee irregardless if it is only a dollar or a million dollars. They accepted the job and will have to perform.

As for forumers here, others are free to judge them on the quality they contribute. While it is true they are not paid millions, thing is, neither should they be free to slander against people who are only trying their best to make things work for us. Criticise by all means, and others will judge the category of criticism it falls upon and react accordingly.

I had read your earlier criticism and found it written only as a perception according to your belief system, and nothing malicious as compared to the more slanderous types here. There are only certain issues that you may not be sure of, and i sincerly hope you will find the solutions acceptable to you one day.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by eagle @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:04:13 +0800

eagle — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:04:13 +0800

Seems like TS is finding it extremely difficult to present any track record

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by £Ĭ€ڰ @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:35:19 +0800

£Ĭ€ڰ — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:35:19 +0800

Originally posted by flabber:

Why don't you tell me which are your 5 favourite policies?

Your insistance in defending the government in well documented.
Im sure many others on these boards will attest to this.Who else would start a thread "Freedom of Speech Vs Freedom of Slander" to put down CSJ (though Im not particularly fond of the man myself).

Are you finding it difficult to back up the below statement with FACTS?

"Time and time again I see you vehemently defending ALL of our government policies"

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by Spartans @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:27:59 +0800

Spartans — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:27:59 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

He's also telling us that he's easily satisfied and would rather sit on his butt to tell himself (and everyone else) that everything is very good.
He needs to convince himself to justify the million dollar ministerial salary.

To be frank, we are not here to kick the PAP away or to damage its reputation. We must reckon that PAP government had done a lot for the rapid progress of Singapore.

However, there are still much room for improvement. And the current batch of PAP leaders are so disappointing. I wonder if they are more interested to serve their pockets or to serve the citizens.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by eagle @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:20:35 +0800

eagle — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:20:35 +0800

Originally posted by Spartans:

Wow you are basically insinuating that some of the forumers are slanders and whiners.

But you need to remember one thing. They are NOT paid millions of dollar to come up with effective measures.

He's also telling us that he's easily satisfied and would rather sit on his butt to tell himself (and everyone else) that everything is very good.
He needs to convince himself to justify the million dollar ministerial salary.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by maurizio13 @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:17:22 +0800

maurizio13 — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:17:22 +0800

Actually it's not that opposition supporters are smarter, but it's just that the few P4P supporters are stupid. That's why there is a contrasting effect.

I hope that answered your question.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by Spartans @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:15:51 +0800

Spartans — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:15:51 +0800

Originally posted by DeerHunter:

I would say that those 5 policies are my favourites, but it can be fine tuned to make it better. And to fine tune, we need intelligent and educated action men in service, not a bunch of slanderers or whiners sitting on their butt doing nothing but complain all day.

Wow you are basically insinuating that some of the forumers are slanders and whiners.

But you need to remember one thing. They are NOT paid millions of dollar to come up with effective measures.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by eagle @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:14:14 +0800

eagle — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:14:14 +0800

Originally posted by Go:

1. Increase in GST. It is meant to pull the gap of the rich and poor closer together with government payouts. By the way, alcohol, cigarettes and cars are considered luxury items for individuals. If the poor cant pay for it, then dont buy it. Unless, you are talking about the new "poor".

2) ERP goals: You pay for the amount of road you use. Sounds fair. In fact, I agreed on the ERP rules. Tax more on car users and subsidize on public transport. Helps the poor, promote the green.

5) With a strong Singapore dollar, Singaporeans pay much less to buy things. But also, with a strong Singapore dollar, companies will be least willing to invest in Singapore. However, with foreign workers in Singapore, it attract investments in Singapore. Thus, indirectly helps to fight inflation.

Tax more on car users and subsidize on public transport

Subsidize public transport? You mean the little amount of coupons they give while the public transport prices continue to increase?

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by flabber @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:02:40 +0800

flabber — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:02:40 +0800

Originally posted by Go:

1. Increase in GST. It is meant to pull the gap of the rich and poor closer together with government payouts. By the way, alcohol, cigarettes and cars are considered luxury items for individuals. If the poor cant pay for it, then dont buy it. Unless, you are talking about the new "poor".

2) ERP goals: You pay for the amount of road you use. Sounds fair. In fact, I agreed on the ERP rules. Tax more on car users and subsidize on public transport. Helps the poor, promote the green.

5) With a strong Singapore dollar, Singaporeans pay much less to buy things. But also, with a strong Singapore dollar, companies will be least willing to invest in Singapore. However, with foreign workers in Singapore, it attract investments in Singapore. Thus, indirectly helps to fight inflation.

1. Basic necessities do not escape from GST either. There are more efficient ways then to increase or GST again to brigde the wealth gap.

2. Is there really a need with the heft road taxes, coe inherent together with existing ERP? Taxis arent exempted from ERP either. Are taxis not public transport?

5. Yes agreed, hence I never did contend that a strong Singapore Dollar would not do us good in my post. But does the increase in investment create as many jobs that are taken up by these foreign workers?

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by Go @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:55:05 +0800

Go — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:55:05 +0800

Originally posted by flabber:

It seems strange for you to be replying to me, feels as though its a case of cloning but I shan't speculate. With regards to your policies,

1. Increase in GST. Singaporeans already contribute to CPF coupled with the existing GST. It is also a known fact that we charge the one of the highest amount of taxes for alcohol and cigarettes. Our "losers"(according to our MM) do contribute to GST too. If the true motive is to prevent the expansion of the income gap? Shouldn't there be a more effective way which would exempt those whom the government aims to bring out of the poverty trap? How much is enough? With our reserves and state owned companies not enough for such funding?

2. Increase in ERP. Yes, I agree, Singapore is small and owning a car is a luxury to some extent. But you do realise that with exhorbitant road taxes and the COE which is Unique Singapore, we're paying a heft price for such a luxury already. If the true motive of putting up more ERP gantries is to improve the flow of traffic, should something more effecient such as improving our road infrastructure be implemented? To increase ERP charges together with more gantries in itself is a regressive policy. Furthermore, ERP charges also bear down on taxi passengers. Coupled with increase in taxi fares, I wonder how badly cabbies are affected.

3. CDC. I concur that these one stop CDCs do assist our people in one way or another, however please refer to point 1 as stated. There should be better ways to assist our people.

4. Ministerial Salaries. Here we go again. The main idea that the government tries to drive home to justify their wages is to prevent corruption and attract talent into our civil SERVICE. I agree that our ministers need to be well paid and well fed, but how much is enough? 6 times that of Mr. George Bush? Thats ridiculous! Some say that in itself is open corruption, but I will stop short of making such allegations or "slander" as a certain someone on these boards would put it. If we need to fork out such astronomical sums to attract talent into our civil SERVICE, I question where their allegiance lies. Their own interests and pockets or the interests of the public of whom they are duty bound to render their SERVICE. Please take note that they are serving their country and people and that in itself should take precedence over monetary gains.

5. Fighting inflation. How does bringing in more foreign workers fight inflation? You claim that these foreign workers create employment opportunites for locals, but is that really the case? Even if that holds true, any employment they create in itself is cancelled off by the ones that they hold. Coupled with the host of social problems that we all associate with them especially the PRCs, is it really a wise move?

1. Increase in GST. It is meant to pull the gap of the rich and poor closer together with government payouts. By the way, alcohol, cigarettes and cars are considered luxury items for individuals. If the poor cant pay for it, then dont buy it. Unless, you are talking about the new "poor".

2) ERP goals: You pay for the amount of road you use. Sounds fair. In fact, I agreed on the ERP rules. Tax more on car users and subsidize on public transport. Helps the poor, promote the green.

5) With a strong Singapore dollar, Singaporeans pay much less to buy things. But also, with a strong Singapore dollar, companies will be least willing to invest in Singapore. However, with foreign workers in Singapore, it attract investments in Singapore. Thus, indirectly helps to fight inflation.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by DeerHunter @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:45:35 +0800

DeerHunter — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:45:35 +0800

Originally posted by freedom4ever:

but i thought ERP is help Singaporeans own more cars?

and as for the CDC, either you try to apply for it or you find a poor family and and then try for it. i can tell you that you wont get the money so easily. and most poor family will give up trying to apply for one halfway through.

Our society has never encourage more car ownership, simply because we don't have enough land for more road. But our society realizes the aspirations of some who may see it as a prestige symbol or a need, thus ERP came about - not to curb ownership, but to regulate the flow and quantity of cars here and compensate other owners of Singapore who do not own a car.

Such collected monies goes into our coffers and is either saved for our next generation or spend for the social welfare or social programs to help this current generation. 3.5million citizens is alot of people and we need more than millions to help all.

As for CDC help, i personally would want them to ensure the truly needy gets it, and not those who stay in mansions with children but are old attempts to collect it. It takes time to thoroughly check, afterall, its our money, not theirs.

I would say that those 5 policies are my favourites, but it can be fine tuned to make it better. And to fine tune, we need intelligent and educated action men in service, not a bunch of slanderers or whiners sitting on their butt doing nothing but complain all day.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by flabber @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:42:03 +0800

flabber — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:42:03 +0800

Originally posted by DeerHunter:

Just in clarification with your post, I take full responsibility for my own actions. That was started by me and no one else.

And if i may plead indulgence, may i answer that question on 5 favourite policies? You can scold me if i presume to go ahead.

5 Favourite policies ( actually there are more)

-----------------------------------------------------

1. Increase in GST:- We have no natural resources, thus social spending will have to come from our pockets. No one is going to help us but ourselves. There are some who may not have good opportunities in life, or faced in setback and would need our help. GST monies would help to fund them, give their kids a good education and escape the poverty trap. Furthermore GST is based on free will. If you don't need to buy, you don't need to pay. The more you buy, which shows your spending power, the more you pay GST which will help our fellow countrymen.

2. Increase in ERP:- No one wants to continually pay. But in Spore, we are limited in size. IF you don't need a car, then don't buy one. You will escape such charges easily. Public transport in aircon comfort is still avaliable, and is no loss of 'face'. Even Wall St exec walk, talk buses, the rail lines.

3. CDCs:- the creation of one stop CDCs to help the less well off. Currently the complain is that the elderly gets $300 a month. You and I know it is not enough. But with 20% GST, they will be able to draw more. No point crying that they draw only $300 if you are not willing to contribute.

4. Increase in ministerial salaries:- Hot potatoes. Already much debated, But a necessary even though unprecedented measure to combat corruption and MORE IMPORTANTLY, bring in talents, the educated to help administer the country, run our economy and protect our reserves for your kids to live in a better and improved Singapore of our common future.

5. Fighting inflation:- a.) they source for cheaper products around the world, buy in bulk and charges less than other international corporate shopkeepers.

b.) they meet up with reformed or semi-reformed dictators, such as N korea, Libya and Russia, whom had been relatively quiet nowadays, to not only help bring about change through better administrative insights, but bring about more trade with our country.

c. ) the increase in our dollar, so as to help the working population cope with increased in prices, ( but i fear for our exporters)

d.) EDB's increased activities to woo foreign investments into our country, through the use of cheap foreign workers and experience foriegn talents, which in turn adds more job to our workers. And upgrading grants to help the young and old to upgrade their skills so that they too may be gainfully employed.

Want more? But it wouldn't be fair. Why not you or others here tell me what are your hated policies and why, so that others may see if it is intellligent critically or critically ignorant.

It seems strange for you to be replying to me, feels as though its a case of cloning but I shan't speculate. With regards to your policies,

1. Increase in GST. Singaporeans already contribute to CPF coupled with the existing GST. It is also a known fact that we charge the one of the highest amount of taxes for alcohol and cigarettes. Our "losers"(according to our MM) do contribute to GST too. If the true motive is to prevent the expansion of the income gap? Shouldn't there be a more effective way which would exempt those whom the government aims to bring out of the poverty trap? How much is enough? With our reserves and state owned companies not enough for such funding?

2. Increase in ERP. Yes, I agree, Singapore is small and owning a car is a luxury to some extent. But you do realise that with exhorbitant road taxes and the COE which is Unique Singapore, we're paying a heft price for such a luxury already. If the true motive of putting up more ERP gantries is to improve the flow of traffic, should something more effecient such as improving our road infrastructure be implemented? To increase ERP charges together with more gantries in itself is a regressive policy. Furthermore, ERP charges also bear down on taxi passengers. Coupled with increase in taxi fares, I wonder how badly cabbies are affected.

3. CDC. I concur that these one stop CDCs do assist our people in one way or another, however please refer to point 1 as stated. There should be better ways to assist our people.

4. Ministerial Salaries. Here we go again. The main idea that the government tries to drive home to justify their wages is to prevent corruption and attract talent into our civil SERVICE. I agree that our ministers need to be well paid and well fed, but how much is enough? 6 times that of Mr. George Bush? Thats ridiculous! Some say that in itself is open corruption, but I will stop short of making such allegations or "slander" as a certain someone on these boards would put it. If we need to fork out such astronomical sums to attract talent into our civil SERVICE, I question where their allegiance lies. Their own interests and pockets or the interests of the public of whom they are duty bound to render their SERVICE. Please take note that they are serving their country and people and that in itself should take precedence over monetary gains.

5. Fighting inflation. How does bringing in more foreign workers fight inflation? You claim that these foreign workers create employment opportunites for locals, but is that really the case? Even if that holds true, any employment they create in itself is cancelled off by the ones that they hold. Coupled with the host of social problems that we all associate with them especially the PRCs, is it really a wise move?

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by Spartans @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:36:38 +0800

Spartans — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:36:38 +0800

Originally posted by DeerHunter:

1. Increase in GST:- We have no natural resources, thus social spending will have to come from our pockets. No one is going to help us but ourselves. There are some who may not have good opportunities in life, or faced in setback and would need our help. GST monies would help to fund them, give their kids a good education and escape the poverty trap. Furthermore GST is based on free will. If you don't need to buy, you don't need to pay. The more you buy, which shows your spending power, the more you pay GST which will help our fellow countrymen.

2. Increase in ERP:- No one wants to continually pay. But in Spore, we are limited in size. IF you don't need a car, then don't buy one. You will escape such charges easily. Public transport in aircon comfort is still avaliable, and is no loss of 'face'. Even Wall St exec walk, talk buses, the rail lines.

3. CDCs:- the creation of one stop CDCs to help the less well off. Currently the complain is that the elderly gets $300 a month. You and I know it is not enough. But with 20% GST, they will be able to draw more. No point crying that they draw only $300 if you are not willing to contribute.

4. Increase in ministerial salaries:- Hot potatoes. Already much debated, But a necessary even though unprecedented measure to combat corruption and MORE IMPORTANTLY, bring in talents, the educated to help administer the country, run our economy and protect our reserves for your kids to live in a better and improved Singapore of our common future.

5. Fighting inflation:- a.) they source for cheaper products around the world, buy in bulk and charges less than other international corporate shopkeepers.

b.) they meet up with reformed or semi-reformed dictators, such as N korea, Libya and Russia, whom had been relatively quiet nowadays, to not only help bring about change through better administrative insights, but bring about more trade with our country.

c. ) the increase in our dollar, so as to help the working population cope with increased in prices, ( but i fear for our exporters)

d.) EDB's increased activities to woo foreign investments into our country, through the use of cheap foreign workers and experience foriegn talents, which in turn adds more job to our workers. And upgrading grants to help the young and old to upgrade their skills so that they too may be gainfully employed.

Want more? But it wouldn't be fair. Why not you or others here tell me what are your hated policies and why, so that others may see if it is intellligent critically or critically ignorant.

1) Singapore government has imposed various taxes that are unheard of in most other countries, such as 110% additional tax on vehicles. Are the government that desperate to depend on the GST to help the poor in the society? If you ask me, I do not believe it.

2) ERP has time and time proven to be an unwise measure to curb traffic jam and at the same time add onto the financial burden of ordinary Singaporeans. When the government decided to up the population growth to an unprecedent level, it is inevitable that congestion will occur. Have the government consider these problems and other societal problems before implementing the foreign immigration policy? Is economy issue their only consideration?

3) For your information, the government only increased the CDC to $290, not $300. Our budget surplus is worthed billions of dollar (I do know that not every year is a budget surplus). I cannot comprehend why the government has no financial mean to help these poor and elderly except to tax from the other citizens?

4) Ministerial pay increment has being debated countless of times as you have mentioned. But mark my word, their reasons for the increment are an insults to Singaporeans' intelligence.

5) Inflation. Fair enough. The government has no mean to control oil and food prices, which contribute much to our inflation rate.

The above are just my opinions.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by freedom4ever @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:24:00 +0800

freedom4ever — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:24:00 +0800

Originally posted by DeerHunter:

Just in clarification with your post, I take full responsibility for my own actions. That was started by me and no one else.

And if i may plead indulgence, may i answer that question on 5 favourite policies? You can scold me if i presume to go ahead.

5 Favourite policies ( actually there are more)

-----------------------------------------------------

1. Increase in GST:- We have no natural resources, thus social spending will have to come from our pockets. No one is going to help us but ourselves. There are some who may not have good opportunities in life, or faced in setback and would need our help. GST monies would help to fund them, give their kids a good education and escape the poverty trap. Furthermore GST is based on free will. If you don't need to buy, you don't need to pay. The more you buy, which shows your spending power, the more you pay GST which will help our fellow countrymen.

2. Increase in ERP:- No one wants to continually pay. But in Spore, we are limited in size. IF you don't need a car, then don't buy one. You will escape such charges easily. Public transport in aircon comfort is still avaliable, and is no loss of 'face'. Even Wall St exec walk, talk buses, the rail lines.

3. CDCs:- the creation of one stop CDCs to help the less well off. Currently the complain is that the elderly gets $300 a month. You and I know it is not enough. But with 20% GST, they will be able to draw more. No point crying that they draw only $300 if you are not willing to contribute.

4. Increase in ministerial salaries:- Hot potatoes. Already much debated, But a necessary even though unprecedented measure to combat corruption and MORE IMPORTANTLY, bring in talents, the educated to help administer the country, run our economy and protect our reserves for your kids to live in a better and improved Singapore of our common future.

5. Fighting inflation:- a.) they source for cheaper products around the world, buy in bulk and charges less than other international corporate shopkeepers.

b.) they meet up with reformed or semi-reformed dictators, such as N korea, Libya and Russia, whom had been relatively quiet nowadays, to not only help bring about change through better administrative insights, but bring about more trade with our country.

c. ) the increase in our dollar, so as to help the working population cope with increased in prices, ( but i fear for our exporters)

d.) EDB's increased activities to woo foreign investments into our country, through the use of cheap foreign workers and experience foriegn talents, which in turn adds more job to our workers. And upgrading grants to help the young and old to upgrade their skills so that they too may be gainfully employed.

Want more? But it wouldn't be fair. Why not you or others here tell me what are your hated policies and why, so that others may see if it is intellligent critically or critically ignorant.

but i thought ERP is help Singaporeans own more cars?

and as for the CDC, either you try to apply for it or you find a poor family and and then try for it. i can tell you that you wont get the money so easily. and most poor family will give up trying to apply for one halfway through.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by DeerHunter @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:27:26 +0800

DeerHunter — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:27:26 +0800

Originally posted by flabber:

Why don't you tell me which are your 5 favourite policies?

Your insistance in defending the government in well documented.
Im sure many others on these boards will attest to this.Who else would start a thread "Freedom of Speech Vs Freedom of Slander" to put down CSJ (though Im not particularly fond of the man myself).

Just in clarification with your post, I take full responsibility for my own actions. That was started by me and no one else.

And if i may plead indulgence, may i answer that question on 5 favourite policies? You can scold me if i presume to go ahead.

5 Favourite policies ( actually there are more)

-----------------------------------------------------

1. Increase in GST:- We have no natural resources, thus social spending will have to come from our pockets. No one is going to help us but ourselves. There are some who may not have good opportunities in life, or faced in setback and would need our help. GST monies would help to fund them, give their kids a good education and escape the poverty trap. Furthermore GST is based on free will. If you don't need to buy, you don't need to pay. The more you buy, which shows your spending power, the more you pay GST which will help our fellow countrymen.

2. Increase in ERP:- No one wants to continually pay. But in Spore, we are limited in size. IF you don't need a car, then don't buy one. You will escape such charges easily. Public transport in aircon comfort is still avaliable, and is no loss of 'face'. Even Wall St exec walk, talk buses, the rail lines.

3. CDCs:- the creation of one stop CDCs to help the less well off. Currently the complain is that the elderly gets $300 a month. You and I know it is not enough. But with 20% GST, they will be able to draw more. No point crying that they draw only $300 if you are not willing to contribute.

4. Increase in ministerial salaries:- Hot potatoes. Already much debated, But a necessary even though unprecedented measure to combat corruption and MORE IMPORTANTLY, bring in talents, the educated to help administer the country, run our economy and protect our reserves for your kids to live in a better and improved Singapore of our common future.

5. Fighting inflation:- a.) they source for cheaper products around the world, buy in bulk and charges less than other international corporate shopkeepers.

b.) they meet up with reformed or semi-reformed dictators, such as N korea, Libya and Russia, whom had been relatively quiet nowadays, to not only help bring about change through better administrative insights, but bring about more trade with our country.

c. ) the increase in our dollar, so as to help the working population cope with increased in prices, ( but i fear for our exporters)

d.) EDB's increased activities to woo foreign investments into our country, through the use of cheap foreign workers and experience foriegn talents, which in turn adds more job to our workers. And upgrading grants to help the young and old to upgrade their skills so that they too may be gainfully employed.

Want more? But it wouldn't be fair. Why not you or others here tell me what are your hated policies and why, so that others may see if it is intellligent critically or critically ignorant.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by flabber @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:58:21 +0800

flabber — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:58:21 +0800

Originally posted by £Ĭ€ڰ:

Could you name me any 5 government policies which you claimed that I have defended?

Why don't you tell me which are your 5 favourite policies?

Your insistance in defending the government in well documented.
Im sure many others on these boards will attest to this.Who else would start a thread "Freedom of Speech Vs Freedom of Slander" to put down CSJ (though Im not particularly fond of the man myself).

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by flabber @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:54:46 +0800

flabber — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:54:46 +0800

Originally posted by googoomuck:

You could have spoilt the vote. I would think that you're a lackey pretending to sing a different tune here.

You've contributed to the victory of the ruling party. Look at the situation that the people are facing now. Pay and pay or pay until broke. There's no such thing as free lunch...etc etc

Hahaha im gazelle/deerhunter in disguise? But the good years we've had showed that despite all the policies we may totally disagree, its still no doubt economically, we're one of the strongest in the region and socially one of the safest.

The lack of quality in our opposition with the exception of a few whom I may not have a chance to vote for causes such a situation. Given the chance a few years back, sure as hell I would have voted for LTK and WP had I not moved from hougang.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by Midlusionz @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:25:41 +0800

Midlusionz — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:25:41 +0800

Originally posted by robertteh:

My advice to these people is : Be humble and look at the posts of people and see the strengths and logics of their arguments e.g. ERP not solving problems or Minister should be penalised for escape of Mas Selamat.

So stop saying things to justify PAP dominance and hope-for continuing dominance without answering to any real issues or problems at all now or for the future.

Well said!

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by robertteh @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:11:19 +0800

robertteh — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:11:19 +0800

Originally posted by £Ĭ€ڰ:

I have noticed that whenever someone support our government policy, he/she will be labeled as blinded by their propaganda, brain washed government controlled media, PAP dogs etc.

Honestly I would really like to know if the opposition supporters in this forum are really smarter and more knowledgeable than the rest.

What do you think?

To be a good citizen, he must have the interest of the country and countrymen at heart.

He will not have the interest of the country or countrymen at heart if he only praise or defend the governing party whatever it may be doing. That will be plain doggieing or ball-carrying or selfish especially if he happens to be a ruling party member or blue-eyed boy of the mightly authoritarian self-praising leader.

So isn't it quite obvious that this assessment of the duties of citizens will answer your question.

It is part of the past 40 plus years of propagandas of the ruling party that whoever queries the government or governing of the country and its wrongful selfish and protectionist policies as seen in NKF for years and lately Mas Selamat the ruling party will use its media to protray critics as liars or anti-government. It will also push back every problem by asking them to walk the talk or take them on in the next election. These are dirty tricks employed to protect their own selfish wrongdoings.

People have now matured with education and hardship. They are not likely to fall wholesale for such propaganda. The fact that you are asking this sort of question like whether supporters of oppositions or critics are or are not smarter than the ruling party ministers only show you have been consciously or subconsciously brainwashed by such repetitive propagandas employed.

See all the posts of protagonists of PAP in this forum and you will know what I mean. They are so condescending and always trying to make it look that their views or PAP's views or people are more superior and trying to cast doubt on others like critics or supporters of oppositions.

My advice to these people is : Be humble and look at the posts of people and see the strengths and logics of their arguments e.g. ERP not solving problems or Minister should be penalised for escape of Mas Selamat.

So stop saying things to justify PAP dominance and hope-for continuing dominance without answering to any real issues or problems at all now or for the future.

Opposition supporters are smartest? replied by eagle @ Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:28:07 +0800

eagle — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:28:07 +0800