'Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices' 回帖表 | sgForums.com

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 Poh Ah Pak 回复

Poh Ah Pak — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:55:40 +0800

When does a tax becomes a subsidy?

When gold falls from the sky, a tax will become a subsidy.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 Civilgoh 回复

Civilgoh — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:52:40 +0800

When does a tax becomes a subsidy?

Ans. When that tax had been around long enough to be depended as revenue to fund social programmes. If without these tax monies, some social programmes may be curtailed or underfunded.

So I suppose the same can apply to when has earth become square, ha ha ha. Ridiculous, absurd, where is the brain and intelligence?

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 jojobeach 回复

jojobeach — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:24:34 +0800

Originally posted by hisoka:

i stil don’t get why there’s not much money and time poured into alternative energy sources like solar. they’ve been around for ages and the technology should at least be at a useable level by now…..

Usable yes.. but too expensive still.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 hisoka 回复

hisoka — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:17:07 +0800

i stil don’t get why there’s not much money and time poured into alternative energy sources like solar. they’ve been around for ages and the technology should at least be at a useable level by now…..

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 jojobeach 回复

jojobeach — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:12:20 +0800

Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:

It seems that no one in the world can stop the oil hikes except the oil people themselves. So, no government appears to be doing wrong. This leads me to assume that they have nothing to do with price hikes. They appear innocent.

But why is it that oil companies are not taxed more given their revenue sky rocketed?

Is it not true that oil companies revenue sky rocketed? Not true that middleeast people are driving bigger oil guzzling cars now than before?

This world is so full of 'honest' elites.

Everybardie is blaming everyone else for the price hikes. But in fact.. nobardie is innocent.

It serves OPEC not much purpose to keep price at a high level. When oil consuming countries goes into alternative fuel mode.. oil demand will fall. So keeping it at a more affordable price will ensure their market continuity.

Oil companies will not lose out either way. Their business is not just about oil extraction, it's very much about selling to consumers.. through their fuel distribution channels and infrastructures. Price go up.. they earn.. price go down they sell more.. so they still win.

Market speculations..and the US dollar losing steam.. very complicated, me not financial expert.

As long as we continue our reliance on fossil oil.. our balls will be tied to the volatile oil producing regions.

Here is a link on the pros and cons of Oil Windfall Tax.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 Devil1976 回复

Devil1976 — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:37:27 +0800

Is this the 1ooth post?

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 Devil1976 回复

Devil1976 — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:36:47 +0800

Hmm...

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 balance_else_complacent 回复

balance_else_complacent — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:35:41 +0800

Originally posted by jojobeach:

I don't think reduction in petrol tax is a good idea.

Rather, they should tax the hell outa the petroleum companies and rechannel the money to develop betta fossil fuel alternatives and infrastructures.

Other countries are thinking of ways to wean themselves off their heavy reliance on fossil oil.

Becoming carbon negative should be their ultimate goal.

Check out this company and what they are doing.

http://www.ls9.com/

Gahmen wanna claim to be first world.. then start planning like one !!

It seems that no one in the world can stop the oil hikes except the oil people themselves. So, no government appears to be doing wrong. This leads me to assume that they have nothing to do with price hikes. They appear innocent.

But why is it that oil companies are not taxed more given their revenue sky rocketed?

Is it not true that oil companies revenue sky rocketed? Not true that middleeast people are driving bigger oil guzzling cars now than before?

This world is so full of 'honest' elites.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 DeerHunter 回复

DeerHunter — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:50:35 +0800

When does a tax becomes a subsidy?

Ans. When that tax had been around long enough to be depended as revenue to fund social programmes. If without these tax monies, some social programmes may be curtailed or underfunded.

For example:- there are est.500,000 cars in Spore. Straits Times, sat, oct 20, 2007

Avg km/car per year = 20,000km ( 15,000 to 25,000)

litres used = 1,666litres ( base of avg 12km/litre)

Fuel tax received = 1,666 X $0.40cts X 500,000 cars (40cts per litre)

= $333.2 million

These are only rough figures, would be lesser if based on previous years car population.

But still, it is an est $300million tax which is not going into some politician's pocket, but for social funding, such as maintenance of smooth roads, MRT works and projects, traffic lights, road signs, etc, etc, for the other 3million non-car owner citizens who use such roads to go to work, school and recreation.

If we cut away this tax, we will have lost one revenue for such works and will have to dig into our reserves. Thus it becomes our society must subsidize car owners, as they are the heaviest users of our roads ( being that a space 5m long sits only 1 person compared to public transport of 8-10 persons on the same space).

Similarly, GST can be called a subsidy instead of tax, because our cents paid to gst are used to subsidise other citizens for social programmes.

Do remember that we own no natural resources. We don't have any royalties significant enough to collect from. All we have to help our fellow citizens for this generation and the next are taxes, as the previous generation had done.

Such taxes are not crippling, as it is based on free will and not forced. But if all cry out for tax to be removed and give more handouts, then Either we crawl back to Msia for economic support and speak Bahasa Msia or we help one another to maintain our independence and multi-racism.

PS: However, the issue here is that cutting away the tax or subsidy will only help oil price to raise. Simple economics. Although the amount we use is small as compared to heavy users such as China or USA, but if every nation big or small thinks their amounts are insignificant and don't do anything, oil price will continue to climb where no oil price had gone before!

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 jojobeach 回复

jojobeach — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:32:47 +0800

Originally posted by maurizio13:

a reduction in petrol tax won't even touch the reserves, it just means that this year the government will be getting less surplus, it doesn't even mean a budget deficit for the government.

but the government is reluctant to have less profits, they always want more and more.

I don't think reduction in petrol tax is a good idea.

Rather, they should tax the hell outa the petroleum companies and rechannel the money to develop betta fossil fuel alternatives and infrastructures.

Other countries are thinking of ways to wean themselves off their heavy reliance on fossil oil.

Becoming carbon negative should be their ultimate goal.

Check out this company and what they are doing.

http://www.ls9.com/

Gahmen wanna claim to be first world.. then start planning like one !!

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 Civilgoh 回复

Civilgoh — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 00:18:15 +0800

Originally posted by eagle:

Nah... they prefer to increase ERP

ERP is their powerful money making "machine", sure earn one ah, no loss., more stable than buying shares,ha ha.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 eagle 回复

eagle — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 00:14:33 +0800

Originally posted by Civilgoh:

It was reported on the radio news that last month's rise in inflation has reached record high. The good gahmen can seriously consider to lower or remove the taxes on petrol during this bad time but what are the chance of they doing it?

Nah... they prefer to increase ERP

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 Civilgoh 回复

Civilgoh — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:54:10 +0800

Originally posted by Spartans:

Your argument is flawed. As mentioned, there is a vast difference between a subsidy and tax.

Secondly, the petrol tax is, as the government put it, meant to "curtail Singaporeans' excessive usage of petrol." However, times are different now. With sky-rocketing prices and coupled with the ERPs etc, Singaporeans are already readjusting their driving habits. Many are cutting down on their driving mileage.

So tell me, what are the uses for petrol tax now? Are the government inflexible by insisting on the petrol tax? Why can't the government lessen our citizens' financial burden when times are hard?

It was reported on the radio news that last month's rise in inflation has reached record high. The good gahmen can seriously consider to lower or remove the taxes on petrol during this bad time but what are the chance of they doing it?

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 Civilgoh 回复

Civilgoh — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:51:36 +0800

Originally posted by lotus999:

who dare ask for subsidise?

when the gahmen want to help the needy they raised the gst from 5% to 7%.

when they want to help us prepare for our old age they make it mandatory for us to buy annuity.

we are made to pay and pay when the gahmen "offer to help" us.

It is still unknown if the increase in 2% GST is channelled to help the poor. The ruling party is so fond of using money to solve almost every problem, easy job for them and they get paid million $ salary.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 maurizio13 回复

maurizio13 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:50:58 +0800

Originally posted by sbst275:

if it has not increased over e past few years... simply I can tell you, wake up to reality... the change to adapt in e high fuel prices era has to start from oneself

dun whole day kpkb abt asking govt to reduce tis and tat... when talk abt PAP not willing to change, you yourself isn't willing to change your lifestyle to brace for tis period either

Is your next contention with me going to be, I always argue specific words in the context.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 Spartans 回复

Spartans — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:50:41 +0800

Originally posted by maurizio13:

a reduction in petrol tax won't even touch the reserves, it just means that this year the government will be getting less surplus, it doesn't even mean a budget deficit for the government.

but the government is reluctant to have less profits, they always want more and more.

I will not go to the extent of calling them greedy. However, I feel that they are rather inflexible. And they have lost touch with the ordinary Singaporeans.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 maurizio13 回复

maurizio13 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:48:50 +0800

Originally posted by Spartans:

Your argument is flawed. As mentioned, there is a vast difference between a subsidy and tax.

Secondly, the petrol tax is, as the government put it, meant to "curtail Singaporeans' excessive usage of petrol." However, times are different now. With sky-rocketing prices and coupled with the ERPs etc, Singaporeans are already readjusting their driving habits. Many are cutting down on their driving mileage.

So tell me, what are the uses for petrol tax now? Are the government inflexible by insisting on the petrol tax? Why can't the government lessen our citizens' financial burden when times are hard?

a reduction in petrol tax won't even touch the reserves, it just means that this year the government will be getting less surplus, it doesn't even mean a budget deficit for the government.

but the government is reluctant to have less profits, they always want more and more.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 Spartans 回复

Spartans — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:44:35 +0800

Originally posted by sbst275:

if it has not increased over e past few years... simply I can tell you, wake up to reality... the change to adapt in e high fuel prices era has to start from oneself

dun whole day kpkb abt asking govt to reduce tis and tat... when talk abt PAP not willing to change, you yourself isn't willing to change your lifestyle to brace for tis period either

Your argument is flawed. As mentioned, there is a vast difference between a subsidy and tax.

Secondly, the petrol tax is, as the government put it, meant to "curtail Singaporeans' excessive usage of petrol." However, times are different now. With sky-rocketing prices and coupled with the ERPs etc, Singaporeans are already readjusting their driving habits. Many are cutting down on their driving mileage.

So tell me, what are the uses for petrol tax now? Are the government inflexible by insisting on the petrol tax? Why can't the government lessen our citizens' financial burden when times are hard?

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 maurizio13 回复

maurizio13 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:37:05 +0800

Originally posted by sbst275:

if it has not increased over e past few years... simply I can tell you, wake up to reality... the change to adapt in e high fuel prices era has to start from oneself

dun whole day kpkb abt asking govt to reduce tis and tat... when talk abt PAP not willing to change, you yourself isn't willing to change your lifestyle to brace for tis period either

you should learn to differentiate between a "tax" and a "subsidy" first before you talk about anything else.

a tax and a subsidy are worlds apart.

if you have problems understanding these 2 simple words, what else is there to talk about. how can you ever understand more complex issues?

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 maurizio13 回复

maurizio13 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:32:23 +0800

Originally posted by sbst275:

petrol tax?

has it increased over e years?

I thought you had a problem understanding the meaning of a "tax" and a "subsidy".

Did I mention anything about petrol tax increases? Do quote me.

Are you putting words in my mouth because you lost the argument for "tax" and "subsidy"?

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 sbst275 回复

sbst275 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:29:17 +0800

if it has not increased over e past few years... simply I can tell you, wake up to reality... the change to adapt in e high fuel prices era has to start from oneself

dun whole day kpkb abt asking govt to reduce tis and tat... when talk abt PAP not willing to change, you yourself isn't willing to change your lifestyle to brace for tis period either

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 maurizio13 回复

maurizio13 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:28:57 +0800

Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:

That's simple.

If you can't defeat a dumb govt, you must either be dumber or out of luck and ideas.

Don't think it's that simple, especially if you have the media, guns and laws at your beck and call.

Media to brainwash the intellectually feebled.

Laws to curtail the cowards.

Guns to control the brave.

It's a full proof plan, many of us would be caught up in these 3 circumstances.

Needless to say, the worse off are those that are restricted by the media, because they are foolish enough to believe the lies that they spread on the newspaper and TV.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 16/f/lonely 回复

16/f/lonely — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:24:39 +0800

Originally posted by maurizio13:

There is a difference between a business' desire to obtain "supernormal profits" and a government maintaining a balanced budget or a slight deficit or slight surplus.

The government's tax here is distributed from taxes to high public service charges.

Most of the surplus here is a result of overtaxing and over charging of public services.

Of course the over charging of public services doesn't show up on the government's budget, it shows up in Temasek and GIC balance sheet, which the government has kept secret.

You claim that the opposition party members are dumb. Maybe you can cite one to two dozen, since you said only afew are capable? Share with us the reason(s) why you consider them dumb.

That's simple.

If you can't defeat a dumb govt, you must either be dumber or out of luck and ideas.

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 sbst275 回复

sbst275 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:24:36 +0800

Originally posted by maurizio13:

do you understand the meaning of "subsidy" and a petrol "tax" sparring?

subsidy is when something cost $1 in the markets, but you subsidise $0.20 to make it cheaper.

whereas taxing is when the cost of petrol is $1.00, you tax it with $0.40 to make it more expensive.

right now the citizens are not asking for subsidy, they are asking for the government to estoppel the petrol tax.

can you differentiate it now?

petrol tax?

has it increased over e years?

此讨论主题刚由 Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices 于 maurizio13 回复

maurizio13 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:22:22 +0800

Originally posted by sbst275:

subsidise... from a privilege, it would slowly end up become a right

and those $$.... it could have been used for projects like road infrastructure, it's end up wasted on subsidising... It's no surprise why M'sia is still underdeveloped when they're subsidising more than spending money on public projects

Instead of able to talk abt super profits, we're going to end up become kampung kids

do you understand the meaning of "subsidy" and a petrol "tax" sparring?

subsidy is when something cost $1 in the markets, but you subsidise $0.20 to make it cheaper.

whereas taxing is when the cost of petrol is $1.00, you tax it with $0.40 to make it more expensive.

right now the citizens are not asking for subsidy, they are asking for the government to estoppel the petrol tax.

can you differentiate it now?

aren't we glad you are not the finance minister, you will probably tax anything and everything that is stationery or moves.