http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 en-US 60 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Going by TS logic, we should dump our current system of Government and go for the governmental systems of Andorra, Macau (PRC) and Japan.</p> <p>More surprisingly, Andorra and Macau achieved more then us, but yet are not considered to be nations who are run by super-effective governments.</p> <p>So going by TS logic, our life expectancy to goverment effectiveness ratio is actually LESS then Andorra and Macau which could get equal or better results then us with far less effective governments! This mean that we are getting less bang for our buck!</p> <p>Wow, how come TS threads always backfire?</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> Cos he is dumb. That's all.</p> Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:19:02 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8220656 Spartans http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <p>Going by TS logic, we should dump our current system of Government and go for the governmental systems of Andorra, Macau (PRC) and Japan.</p> <p>More surprisingly, Andorra and Macau achieved more then us, but yet are not considered to be nations who are run by super-effective governments.</p> <p>So going by TS logic, our life expectancy to goverment effectiveness ratio is actually LESS then Andorra and Macau which could get equal or better results then us with far less effective governments! This mean that we are getting less bang for our buck!</p> <p>Wow, how come TS threads always backfire?</p> Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:16:22 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8220649 SingaporeTyrannosaur http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by £ Ĭ €ڰ:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>According to <a href="http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/" rel= "nofollow">worldlifeexpectancy</a> website, Singapore is ranked no.2 in the world life expectancy survey.</p> <p>Do you think this is due to the effectiveness of Singapore healthcare system created by the ruling party PAP?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>are they a recognised association? who are they affiliated with? wats wif the "we created this beta site for investors..advertisers...blah blah...blah.."<br /> <br /> Is this where you are getting all your sources from? MY gawd and i thought only the innocent get conned by phony paypal sites..... oh wait.. you aren;t innocent..you;re just down right ignorant...xD</p> Sat, 05 Jul 2008 19:01:41 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8220352 4getmenot http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Is effectiveness of a health system solely based on the longetivity of the population? Or is it based on a statistic that as others have pointed out been deemed inaccurate? Or are you in the business of cherry picking statistics that support your position and ignore others? Either way, your so called "opinion" is as worthless as a piece of trash. So get the <strong><span style= "color: #ff0000;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">fuck lost</span></span></strong>.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>1) In your&nbsp;opinion&nbsp;what you will consider as a good healthcare system and what should be the KPI?</p> <p>2) What statistic are you talking about.?&nbsp;If you are referring to anything that come from&nbsp;Maurizio13, you can go fuck yourself. &nbsp;:)</p> <p>An accurate measurement is worth more than 1000 "experts" opinion.</p> Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:00:13 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8220146 £ Ỉ €ڰ http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by £ Ĭ €ڰ:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Is Singaporeans not living longer and getting healthier? These are number which you can actually verify, so would you be kind enough to bring some to the table for discussion instead of&nbsp;constantly&nbsp;telling us&nbsp;"expert" opinions which cant be supported by <strong><span style= "text-decoration: underline;">facts</span></strong>. &nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Is effectiveness of a health system solely based on the longetivity of the population? Or is it based on a statistic that as others have pointed out been deemed inaccurate? Or are you in the business of cherry picking statistics that support your position and ignore others? Either way, your so called "opinion" is as worthless as a piece of trash. So get the fuck lost.</p> Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:49:20 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8220079 Fingolfin_Noldor http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>The Thread starter has either</p> <p>1. Too much time on his hands</p> <p>2. Is nothing but a propaganda megaphone</p> <p>3. Is nothing but a spammer who spams one useless thread after another with bad statistics and despite the contrary continue to insist that he is right. I wonder what level of intellectual dishonesty does he wish to descend to.</p> <p>Mind you, no matter how much the government yells from the ivory tower that "WE ARE DA BESTEST", it doesn't change the fact that the best hospitals in the world happen to not reside in Singapore. We are merely the "best in the region".</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Is Singaporeans not living longer and getting healthier? These are number which you can actually verify, so would you be kind enough to bring some to the table for discussion instead of&nbsp;constantly&nbsp;telling us&nbsp;"expert" opinions which cant be supported by <strong><span style= "text-decoration: underline;">facts</span></strong>. &nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:16:58 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8219241 £ Ĭ €ڰ http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <p>The Thread starter has either</p> <p>1. Too much time on his hands</p> <p>2. Is nothing but a propaganda megaphone</p> <p>3. Is nothing but a spammer who spams one useless thread after another with bad statistics and despite the contrary continue to insist that he is right. I wonder what level of intellectual dishonesty does he wish to descend to.</p> <p>Mind you, no matter how much the government yells from the ivory tower that "WE ARE DA BESTEST", it doesn't change the fact that the best hospitals in the world happen to not reside in Singapore. We are merely the "best in the region".</p> Sat, 05 Jul 2008 03:30:50 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8219024 Fingolfin_Noldor http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Dogtor:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Life expectancy is high but that does not necessarily mean that we have the best healthcare system in the world.&nbsp; We have one of the better healthcare systems in the world.</p> <p>Most of the improvements in life expectancy can be from really basic stuff:</p> <p>Clean water, adequate nutrition, excellent hygiene (we are 100% urban society), vaccination. Contrast this to healthcare in developing countries</p> <p>In comparison to developed/industrialized countries, they have more people who have less access to some of these conditions.&nbsp; Also, they reap what they sow, many are fat, and have diseases of the very affluent. We probably have many people at the stage of not too rich but not poor.&nbsp; So good environmental conditions mean less death from infectious diseases and natural disasters but not rich enough to be able to kill ourselves with bad lifestyles, yet also not rich enough to have fantastic healthcare.&nbsp; So live long but not longer.&nbsp; We do not have abject poverty of super squalid conditions like when coolies and their hutches were around but we are headed that way again given the way we view immigration and treat guest workers.</p> <p>The other assumption in the statement is that all human beings should have equal attainment of life expectancy if conditions are equal.</p> <p>But maybe Asians are supposed to live to 100 if we spent more on healthcare - again asumption that healthcare improves life expectancy</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>I believe one of the main reason is because Singapore government ensure that all hospitals are well equipped, well staffed and close to the people.</p> Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:42:31 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8219005 £ Ĭ €ڰ http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <p>Life expectancy is high but that does not necessarily mean that we have the best healthcare system in the world.&nbsp; We have one of the better healthcare systems in the world.</p> <p>Most of the improvements in life expectancy can be from really basic stuff:</p> <p>Clean water, adequate nutrition, excellent hygiene (we are 100% urban society), vaccination. Contrast this to healthcare in developing countries</p> <p>In comparison to developed/industrialized countries, they have more people who have less access to some of these conditions.&nbsp; Also, they reap what they sow, many are fat, and have diseases of the very affluent. We probably have many people at the stage of not too rich but not poor.&nbsp; So good environmental conditions mean less death from infectious diseases and natural disasters but not rich enough to be able to kill ourselves with bad lifestyles, yet also not rich enough to have fantastic healthcare.&nbsp; So live long but not longer.&nbsp; We do not have abject poverty of super squalid conditions like when coolies and their hutches were around but we are headed that way again given the way we view immigration and treat guest workers.</p> <p>The other assumption in the statement is that all human beings should have equal attainment of life expectancy if conditions are equal.</p> <p>But maybe Asians are supposed to live to 100 if we spent more on healthcare - again asumption that healthcare improves life expectancy</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:50:49 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8218392 Dogtor http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by soulwinner:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>so what if we have the best healthcare system ? let be honest how many can afford to be critically ill ? It think the survery is based on the fact that majority can afford basic healthcare such as visitation to a GP for flu, cough and etc</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> That dog TS is just following his master order. Fabricated reality with twisted facts. I pity his parent to have such offspring.</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:22:48 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8218340 zenden9 http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by £ Ĭ €ڰ:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p><br /> <a href= "https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html" rel= "nofollow">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html</a></p> <p><a href= "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy" rel= "nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy</a>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>I won't trust the CIA report with my life - no reputable academic will even accept it as a fact from CIA reporting site . And your link to wikipedia - scroll to UN listing - it clearly states that Singapore is ranked 15 .</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:19:59 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8218335 fymk http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <p>so what if we have the best healthcare system ? let be honest how many can afford to be critically ill ? It think the survery is based on the fact that majority can afford basic healthcare such as visitation to a GP for flu, cough and etc</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:19:50 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8218334 soulwinner http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by £ Ĭ €ڰ:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p><br /> <a href= "https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html" rel= "nofollow">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html</a></p> <p><a href= "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy" rel= "nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy</a>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Sorry.. Nothing beats a UN report. U can post 1000 bogus link and claim this or that but u cannot hide from reality!</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:18:58 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8218333 zenden9 http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by £ Ĭ €ڰ:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>According to <a href="http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/" rel= "nofollow">worldlifeexpectancy</a> website, Singapore is ranked no.2 in the world life expectancy survey.</p> <p>Do you think this is due to the effectiveness of Singapore healthcare system created by the ruling party PAP?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Which country cannot run the best health care system if it taxes, hoard or underspend on taxes and set up all the basic government services as GLCs to profiteer citizens by the billions and at the same time charge the highest market fees for every service like medicare until most ordinary citizens are heavily indebted and enslaved by such a system.</p> <p>If any country taxes in such a manner it could even provide free medicare at the best quality without batting an eyelid.</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:08:22 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8218315 robertteh http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by drawer:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Whether Singapore has the world best healthcare system or not i dont know,although i seriously doubt that.But one thing i do know is that our healthcare cost are damn high,our healthcare system dont care about poor ppl.</p> <p>Like some forumers say here,you can die in Singapore,but cant fall sick in here.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> I remembered few years ago I accompanied my mom to the poly clinic in Y_____ and witnessed a man in his late forties (I think not good in gauging agelah) begging and apologizing to the social worker and the counter cashier for having no money to pay for the medical checkup and the medicine which he clutched in his hands and refuse to let go.</p> <p>This was roughly what the conversation went like :-</p> <p>Sick man : 'Sorry miss, I&nbsp;don't have money. Can help or not?</p> <p>Social worker : Mr. So-so&nbsp;we cannot allow you to go without paying for the service rendered. No matter how you need to pay something.</p> <p>Counter cashier mumbled under her breath but loud enough for everyone within their vicinity to hear : 'No money don't come see doctor loh'</p> <p>Sick man : But Miss, I really don't have money at all. And I really need the medicine. Can we arrange something like when I got money I come back to pay you?</p> <p>Social worker very loud : 'Aiyah Mr. So-so, how can we do that? If everyone is like you then we will get very 'ma fan'. Why don't you go talk to your GRC MPs. You get them to help you then you come back and we will release the medicine. For now we don't charge you even for the consultation fees since you said you really have no money.'</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>After that I don't know what happen liao since my mom's number were called and we went in to the consultation room. I was like thinking ' Aiyoh people no money so poor thing already why some more drop the rock into the well to seal his fate'. Talk so loud as if other patients cannot hear. I mean it was like trying to embarrass the poor man. Already people so cham liao. And moreover it was really uncalled for that the counter cashier made such a nasty remark. If the man got money wouldn't you think he would try to embarrass himself publicly by begging? And this is poly clinic! Poly clinic!<img src="/images/emoticons/classic/icon_evil.gif" alt= "icon_evil.gif" /></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>P/s Got advice cannot name places or else jialat jialat so need to edit here</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:13:52 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8217937 BeautifulBetty http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by fymk:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>What and whose report? I only trust World Health Organisation , United Nation or&nbsp;OECD sources in this order. The rest don't really count as a solid source.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> <a href= "https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html" rel= "nofollow">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html</a></p> <p><a href= "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy" rel= "nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy</a>&nbsp;</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:47:10 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8217862 £ Ĭ €ڰ http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <p>These kind of things nt really accurate... Due to singapore's climate and density, compare to australia/Hongkong, you can get more types of diseases... eg.TB</p> <p>This is not to say Singapore shld be more highly ranked than australia or Hongkong, but, such a measure is Inherently inaccurate and results debatable.</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:39:45 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8217839 whiskers http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Hong Kong SAR has very affordable healthcare system, Australia has free healthcare system, whereas Singapore has very expensive healthcare system.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I wonder if the Singapore system neglects it's elderlies because they have an inablity to pay for healthcare. In another thread, the mortality rate for above 45s to 75s are extremely high when compared to Australia. With&nbsp;higher mortality for the elderlies, there will be less patients for doctors, that could probably explain why the waiting time is shorter for Singapore than Australia, despite Australia having almost twice the doctor population per 100,000 compared to Singapore.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>In the snapshot below you will see the mortality for the age groups per country:</p> <p>(Mortality rate&nbsp;per 100,000 population)</p> <p><strong>Higher figures in bold.</strong></p> <p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">45-54 years of age</span></p> <p>Australia Male: 304.5</p> <p><strong>Singapore Male: 346.0</strong></p> <p>Australia Female: 192.4</p> <p><strong>Singapore Female: 200.5</strong></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">55-64 years of age</span></p> <p>Australia Male: 810.1</p> <p><strong>Singapore Male: 1,058.8</strong></p> <p>Australia Female: 466.2</p> <p><strong>Singapore Female: 588.1</strong></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">65-74 years of age</span></p> <p>Australia Male: 2,271.6</p> <p><strong>Singapore Male: 2,842.5</strong></p> <p>Australia Female: 1,307.4</p> <p><strong>Singapore Female: 1,707.2</strong></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">75+ years of age</span></p> <p>Australia Male: 7,917.2</p> <p><strong>Singapore Male: 7,960.2</strong></p> <p>Australia Female: 6,365.6</p> <p><strong>Singapore Female: 6,600.8</strong></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><a href= "http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb312/maurizio13/SingaporevAustralia.png" rel="nofollow"></a><a href= "http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb312/maurizio13/SingaporevAustralia.png" class="" rel="nofollow"><img src= "http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb312/maurizio13/SingaporevAustralia.png" height="222" alt="" width="288" /></a></p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:13:13 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8217736 maurizio13 http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <p>Whether Singapore has the world best healthcare system or not i dont know,although i seriously doubt that.But one thing i do know is that our healthcare cost are damn high,our healthcare system dont care about poor ppl.</p> <p>Like some forumers say here,you can die in Singapore,but cant fall sick in here.</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:56:28 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8217628 drawer http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by £ Ĭ €ڰ:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p><br /> Some report say Singapore is no.4, but definitely way above Australia.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>What and whose report? I only trust World Health Organisation , United Nation or&nbsp;OECD sources in this order. The rest don't really count as a solid source.</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:51:09 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8217600 fymk http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by fymk:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Nowhere do I see Singapore as no. 2</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> Some report say Singapore is no.4, but definitely way above Australia.</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:39:25 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8217547 £ Ĭ €ڰ http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by maurizio13:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p><img src= "http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb312/maurizio13/WPP2006_Highlights_rev97.png" height="1024" alt="" width="791" /></p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Nowhere do I see Singapore as no. 2</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>UN estimates - Singapore is no.15&nbsp; and below Hongkong SAR and Macau SAR. That is sad. .</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:38:28 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8217543 fymk http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <p>Fancy the TS quoting from a questionable source which has commercial/profit motives and seemingly questionable noble causes. this is no different than a guy pretending to be `mute' and ask around people to buy his keychain for a good cause.</p> <p><a href="http://www.leducmedia.com/project_presentation.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.leducmedia.com/project_presentation.php</a></p> <p>nice try.</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 07:24:26 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8216287 redDUST http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by £ Ĭ €ڰ:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>According to <a href="http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/" rel= "nofollow">worldlifeexpectancy</a> website, Singapore is ranked no.2 in the world life expectancy survey.</p> <p>Do you think this is due to the effectiveness of Singapore healthcare system created by the ruling party PAP?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Nah, as what ppl always said .. " U can die in SG but u cant fall sick in SG"</p> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 07:09:42 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8216271 Midlusionz http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024 <p><img src= "http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb312/maurizio13/WPP2006_Highlights_rev97.png" height="1024" alt="" width="791" /></p> Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:53:08 +0800 sgforums.com:10:323024:8215869 maurizio13 http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/323024