LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Fantagf @ Fri, 18 Jul 2008 02:03:42 +0800

Fantagf — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 02:03:42 +0800

Originally posted by drawer:

Another thing is that i find it quite curious that some "Patriotic forumers" like to criticize George Bush.I have watched a news recently(forget it was from Taiwan news or local news),it was a news about George Bush giving a welcome speech to the new immigrants.

And there were some protestors directly,and i mean directly,scold some very bad words to Bush.And Bush just being cool n told the new immigrants:"this is America,everyone got the right to express their opinion."

At that moment i am thinking,can our petty,narrow-minded,mean,selfish and arrogant PAP leaders withstand that kind of insult?I believe,not even Goh Chok Tong got such "Big heart" n guts to face such criticism.

If he is in Singapore doing the same to LKY or any of the pay and pay members, he is gone. NO human rights here. Ruling party is entitled to all rights.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by drawer @ Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:16:53 +0800

drawer — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:16:53 +0800

Another thing is that i find it quite curious that some "Patriotic forumers" like to criticize George Bush.I have watched a news recently(forget it was from Taiwan news or local news),it was a news about George Bush giving a welcome speech to the new immigrants.

And there were some protestors directly,and i mean directly,scold some very bad words to Bush.And Bush just being cool n told the new immigrants:"this is America,everyone got the right to express their opinion."

At that moment i am thinking,can our petty,narrow-minded,mean,selfish and arrogant PAP leaders withstand that kind of insult?I believe,not even Goh Chok Tong got such "Big heart" n guts to face such criticism.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by drawer @ Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:06:18 +0800

drawer — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:06:18 +0800

Originally posted by Fantagf:

I beg to differ. All these years of interacting and observing Singaporeans, in general they are still the same, still kiasi kiasu, inward looking, fearful of PAP, dare not speak up and when others speak up or take action they are the first ones to oppose and be obnoxious, unkind to utter words of destruction. I don't think singaporeans will ever change. Due to these the current ruling party becomes more and more daring and evil to serve themselves at the expense of the people and continue to ignore the people.

"Volcano will never erupt in Singapore", sad to say.

Dont be so sure that a revolution cant happen in Singapore.Anything can happen in this world.If we Singaporeans need to sleep,eat,sh1t,pee n fuk like the rest of the human being in the world,then there will be a possibility that an revolt might occur when the PAP are carrying things too far.

Of coz,like any revolution that happen around the world in the past,we need a sparks n some daring opposition leaders to take the lead.

And also,like i said before,if that happen,it will be too late for our PAP leaders to regret n sh1t their pants.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Fantagf @ Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:53:49 +0800

Fantagf — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:53:49 +0800

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

During election period, PAP will bombard public with their propaganda.

That is their right.

But opposition has no propaganda power to do the same thing.

So the fight is lopsided in PAP's favour.

For example, James Gomez incident and Lee Kuan Yew IBA letter bullshit.

Which one is propagated by state propaganda media?

It's all a farce here.

On TV, I remembering hearing LKY said there is no fair play to oppositions. So this can explain why he is not much for human rights. Sometimes, I wonder why this leader can be so evil, such an extremely hard man. Life is short why make life so difficult and miserable for others.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:36:43 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:36:43 +0800

The only thing they can do is exercise their right and wisdom to vote on election day.

During election period, PAP will bombard public with their propaganda.

That is their right.

But opposition has no propaganda power to do the same thing.

So the fight is lopsided in PAP's favour.

For example, James Gomez incident and Lee Kuan Yew IBA letter bullshit.

Which one is propagated by state propaganda media?

It's all a farce here.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Fantagf @ Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:24:00 +0800

Fantagf — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:24:00 +0800

So long as PAP is in power the media will continue to be under their control. There is nothing the public can do about it. The only thing they can do is exercise their right and wisdom to vote on election day.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:04:19 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:04:19 +0800

The level of awarness and maturity of political affairs can be raised by the mainstream media if they choose to do so.

They can provide diversity of views, discussion, debate, political talkshow etc.

But under the PAP regime, their goal is to brainwash the public into voting for them and keep them at a low level of political knowledge.

This is your so-called "benign authoritarianism".

How not to be brainwashed and narrow, under this type of worthless state propaganda media?

If public becomes politicised, which fucker would go and vote for PAP regime, you tell me?

So, authoritarianism = state propaganda media to serve its own interests = brainwashed public.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:42:21 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:42:21 +0800

What is truly worrying for me is that many Singaporeans have swallowed and gulped down this propaganda by the three evil forces, Reuters, AFP, AP, copied and pasted by the Singapore media and other regional media here.

You cannot blame Singaporeans. The media here is brain dead and depoliticised.

They watch this type of dead state media, they also become influenced by its propaganda.

This is due to your "benign authoritarianism".

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Fantagf @ Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:39:46 +0800

Fantagf — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:39:46 +0800

Originally posted by Meat Pao:

Just from that opening post itself, it is already full of bias and taking a prejudiced stance on many issues.

Who told you that NKorea leader is a retard? And who told you that Iran president is a terrorist?

I know who, Reuters, AFP, AP.

What is truly worrying for me is that many Singaporeans have swallowed and gulped down this propaganda by the three evil forces, Reuters, AFP, AP, copied and pasted by the Singapore media and other regional media here.

So what makes you believe that NKorea leader is a retard and Iranian leader is a terrorist?

Retard by what standard? Terrorist by what standard?

I am really worried when people in Singapore so readily accept certain viewpoints without critical judgement or objective evaluation. Ordinary people's global viewpoint is totally brainwashed already without them realizing it. Even believing some leaders are more enlightened and responsible than other leaders, by what standard are you measuring and comparing them?

If everyday we read articles written by certain news sources, of course our minds will be slowly forming a picture to believe who are the 'good guys' or the 'bad guys' , but do you think this is correct?

With regards to China learning from Singapore, sure why not? Why should that be neccessarily be a bad thing?

You alluded to them copying dynastic politics, I am not sure they will do that, one-party state maybe. But I think what they are really interested to see and learn is the whole Singapore experience, the whole package.

Actually Singapore started off somewhat socialistic, just look at the name, People's Action Party. There has been some discussion on how they managed to provide almost universal housing for the masses, a great socialist achievement.

But what is interesting is that Singapore managed to use capitalistic methods to achieve socialist aims, such as providing universal housing through revenues collected from mutinational corporations.

I just stop it here, and there is no need to go further, but I just want to say I am convinced a benign authoritarianism is a much superior form of governance than democracy, and combining capitalism and socialism is possible. Since China is opening up and trying to embrace capitalism, of course Singapore can serve as a useful reference point.

What I want to say is, dont take Singapore too lowly. Give it more credit. And dont take democracy too highly. It is overrated.

For more discussion please search a bit on YouTube, type these names:

Kishore Mahbubani

Fareed Zakaria

Lee Kuan Yew Democracy

Meat Pao.

Don't need to get so worked up, cool cool. PAP is the "best" in the world, no political parties beat them. Heaven and earth can't deny the facts about PAP. PAP is top notch in bloodsucking.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Meat Pao @ Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:20:55 +0800

Meat Pao — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:20:55 +0800

Originally posted by drawer:

I know LKY n his son LHL are trying to influence Mainland China by "teaching" him what to do to stay in power with absolute one-party ruling.I believe China didnt copy all of their methods,but they did copy some of their ideas n implement them in Hong Kong n their country.

LKY n LHL thought that by doing that,they can hold on to power with China ever increasing influence in the region.And they can use China to reduce threats from the U.S from interfering Singapore politics.

But what they didnt know is that it is very dangerous for them to do that.Coz unlike North Korea n Iran,China got nuclear power.If,China going to follow North Korea,Singapore or Iran style,pass the power n status from a certain politician to his son.And that son happen to be a fuking retard like LHL n North Korea current leader(sry,i forgot that b!tch name^^),it would be a major threats to the world stability.

In United States,a politician can pass their President seat to his son through fair election,and their parliament can keep in check of their president power.But,in China n Singapore,there is no such system to control dominating party leaders authorities.Sinapore still nevermind,coz she is small n our PAP leaders n ministers constantly being raped by other countries leaders.BUT,China will be a different story.If the leader happen to be as retard as LHL n North Korea leader,or a terrorist like Iran president,it would be a disaster for the entire human being.

If such a retard leader in China decide to press a nuclear button to attack other countries out of anger,especially if the target is U.S n Russia,Oh my god.......u guys can imagine what will happen......

Just from that opening post itself, it is already full of bias and taking a prejudiced stance on many issues.

Who told you that NKorea leader is a retard? And who told you that Iran president is a terrorist?

I know who, Reuters, AFP, AP.

What is truly worrying for me is that many Singaporeans have swallowed and gulped down this propaganda by the three evil forces, Reuters, AFP, AP, copied and pasted by the Singapore media and other regional media here.

So what makes you believe that NKorea leader is a retard and Iranian leader is a terrorist?

Retard by what standard? Terrorist by what standard?

I am really worried when people in Singapore so readily accept certain viewpoints without critical judgement or objective evaluation. Ordinary people's global viewpoint is totally brainwashed already without them realizing it. Even believing some leaders are more enlightened and responsible than other leaders, by what standard are you measuring and comparing them?

If everyday we read articles written by certain news sources, of course our minds will be slowly forming a picture to believe who are the 'good guys' or the 'bad guys' , but do you think this is correct?

With regards to China learning from Singapore, sure why not? Why should that be neccessarily be a bad thing?

You alluded to them copying dynastic politics, I am not sure they will do that, one-party state maybe. But I think what they are really interested to see and learn is the whole Singapore experience, the whole package.

Actually Singapore started off somewhat socialistic, just look at the name, People's Action Party. There has been some discussion on how they managed to provide almost universal housing for the masses, a great socialist achievement.

But what is interesting is that Singapore managed to use capitalistic methods to achieve socialist aims, such as providing universal housing through revenues collected from mutinational corporations.

I just stop it here, and there is no need to go further, but I just want to say I am convinced a benign authoritarianism is a much superior form of governance than democracy, and combining capitalism and socialism is possible. Since China is opening up and trying to embrace capitalism, of course Singapore can serve as a useful reference point.

What I want to say is, dont take Singapore too lowly. Give it more credit. And dont take democracy too highly. It is overrated.

For more discussion please search a bit on YouTube, type these names:

Kishore Mahbubani

Fareed Zakaria

Lee Kuan Yew Democracy

Meat Pao.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Fantagf @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:21:21 +0800

Fantagf — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:21:21 +0800

Originally posted by sgdiehard:

This fellow is PAP's supporter in disguise though he denies he supports PAP.
Nobody needs to disguise in this forum, especially if you support PAP.

his motive is to point fingers at forumers here to make forumers look bad for not agreeing with PAP.

How can any fingers pointing make anybody look bad, ....but nothing can make people like you worse than what you already are.

hey troll, you disagrees with everybody here so comes here to attack people. That is what has been observed so far. You are so fast to attack, find fault, something is very wrong with your personality and character. You stink.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by sgdiehard @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:14:40 +0800

sgdiehard — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:14:40 +0800

Originally posted by Fantagf:

That fellow rattles on and on and his motive is to point fingers at forumers here to make forumers look bad for not agreeing with PAP. This fellow is PAP's supporter in disguise though he denies he supports PAP. An opposition supporter will not behave such. He is saying the same things over and over again, what a bore.

This fellow is PAP's supporter in disguise though he denies he supports PAP.
Nobody needs to disguise in this forum, especially if you support PAP.

his motive is to point fingers at forumers here to make forumers look bad for not agreeing with PAP.

How can any fingers pointing make anybody look bad, ....but nothing can make people like you worse than what you already are.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Fantagf @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:41:22 +0800

Fantagf — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:41:22 +0800

Originally posted by rooki:

That fellow rattles on and on and his motive is to point fingers at forumers here to make forumers look bad for not agreeing with PAP. This fellow is PAP's supporter in disguise though he denies he supports PAP. An opposition supporter will not behave such. He is saying the same things over and over again, what a bore.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Beachboy136 @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:39:03 +0800

Beachboy136 — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:39:03 +0800

China is not as bad as u think dude. At least they allow modernization to take place and seeking for peace rather then hated, evil and war driven like the NK. At least Sg are not as worst off ad the NK which isself largest prison in the modern world. Do some research and u will appreaciates our life here... our garmen might be stiff in certain area but at least we have a choice and we try hard enough, thing would materialized. NK leader and its regime are good for nothing. Imagine those WW2 concertration camp in the nazi german are exist nowadays and making the ordinary people suffer. Read more or simple search the youtube and u will understand how lucky we are..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4NIB6xroc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW2sReWDyHI

http://libertyinnorthkorea.blogspot.com/2008/06/call-to-conscience-in-free-korea.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4NIB6xroc

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by rooki @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:01:24 +0800

rooki — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:01:24 +0800

Originally posted by ray245:

The thing is sir, the political system in a country will keep changing all the time.

No shit, sherlock.

Compare the US system before the civil war and the US political system today , the system IS different.

Ditto. So?

And democracy is 'near' perfect only in the right circumstances. Give it to the wrong people at the wrong time, it will become a mobocracy.

The same goes for authoritarianism, and very much more so.

And I don't get it...why the hell do you guys keep saying I'm a PAP supporter? I'm more of a pro-opposition guy than a PAP supporter. Although...not by much. The opposition party is not perfect, I am simply saying that.

Go reflect on what you've said that makes people think this way.

It seems to me that it is wrong to say anything bad about the opposition in this forum. The political climate here reminds me of what george bush said...you are either with us, or you are against us.

It seems you've been trying to discredit opposition supporters by comparing them to the assholes in the Bush administration. Now, what did you say about being pro-opposition just now?

Great job trying to gain any support from the centralist voters.

The term is centrist, and rest assured nobody else except you thinks that the opposition is beyond criticism.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Poh Ah Pak @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:47:03 +0800

Poh Ah Pak — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:47:03 +0800

...

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by ray245 @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:07:29 +0800

ray245 — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:07:29 +0800

The thing is sir, the political system in a country will keep changing all the time.

Compare the US system before the civil war and the US political system today , the system IS different.

And democracy is 'near' perfect only in the right circumstances. Give it to the wrong people at the wrong time, it will become a mobocracy.

And I don't get it...why the hell do you guys keep saying I'm a PAP supporter? I'm more of a pro-opposition guy than a PAP supporter. Although...not by much. The opposition party is not perfect, I am simply saying that.

It seems to me that it is wrong to say anything bad about the opposition in this forum. The political climate here reminds me of what george bush said...you are either with us, or you are against us.

Great job trying to gain any support from the centralist voters.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by rooki @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:56:35 +0800

rooki — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:56:35 +0800

Originally posted by ray245:

Although you HAVE to give credit to lee kuan yew as one of the top autorcratic leaders around in history. I mean compare LKY to other autocratic leaders like Mao or chiang ...personally I find that he is a much better leader.

So you acknowledge LKY to be an authoritarian? Fair enough.

I mean...having a more liberal democracy does not mean the leader will be better than lee kuan yew.

And continuing the current autocratic process most definitely precludes the leader from being better than LKY.

If that' the case...then George W. Bush can be known as one of the top leader because he was elected from a more liberal democratic process.

I've never thought it possible to construct a strawman out of red herrings. Your capability in fabrication astounds.

You guys HAVE to understand that the voters DON'T make the correct choice all the time.

But leaders do, right? Hence your blind support for autocracy.

Oh wait, when leaders screw up, it's always an honest mistake.

The more time I spend here...the more I see the LKY bashers becoming more and more like LKY...thinking that ANY opposition is better than the PAP.

Better than thinking that ONE person is the be-all and end-all of government.

It's like the opposition supporters are a little extreme...if this is what most of the opposition in singapore is like...I will feel so sad for singapore.

If your puerile ramblings represent the thoughts of most of the PAP, Singapore is dead.

Alot of opposition supporters is becoming like the PAP...they DON'T admit that they CAN be wrong.

So you're saying that the PAP don't admit their mistakes? We may yet have some common ground.

Guys...liberal democracy is not some wonder tool that will make life perfect. As long as there is imperfection in this world...NO political system can be perfect.

Democracy is nearer to the 'perfect' asymptote than whatever forms of autocracy you can devise.

Only when humans becomes perfect...maybe then...we can come up with a perfect political system.

Why don't you lead the way? I just bought some lobotomizing equipment and was wondering what to do with it.

Every political system has it's down sides you know...it's how we ensure that the down side do not go out of hand that makes a political system works.

Centrist waffle, but I've got no argument with that.

Please remember the fact that the grass ALWAYS seems greener on the other side. Blindly adopting the political system of another country will not work...if it can work...then there is no point in having a country called singapore.

So you're saying that Singapore is only worth its political system? Very interesting view you have there.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by jojobeach @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:09:44 +0800

jojobeach — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:09:44 +0800

Originally posted by Leeky:

JJ,

Dont worry, we will catch the big fishes only!!!

Like this Mr Nair who went wild in East Malaysia, then we backmail him and go and fly k in USA!!!!

I m in USA enjoying my guiness draught!!! how about u!!!

where r u now?

But Mr Leaky... how do you define "big fishy" ? Like do they have to be asset rich ... so you can sue them and take their fortunes ?

Why you come USA and drink Guiness ? You want oh bit.. you must go Ireland !!

I am enjoying my Coors light .. very refreshing in summer heat.

USA is so big, which state you running amok in leh ?

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by kengkia @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:25:26 +0800

kengkia — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:25:26 +0800

Originally posted by drawer:

I know LKY n his son LHL are trying to influence Mainland China by "teaching" him what to do to stay in power with absolute one-party ruling.I believe China didnt copy all of their methods,but they did copy some of their ideas n implement them in Hong Kong n their country.

LKY n LHL thought that by doing that,they can hold on to power with China ever increasing influence in the region.And they can use China to reduce threats from the U.S from interfering Singapore politics.

But what they didnt know is that it is very dangerous for them to do that.Coz unlike North Korea n Iran,China got nuclear power.If,China going to follow North Korea,Singapore or Iran style,pass the power n status from a certain politician to his son.And that son happen to be a fuking retard like LHL n North Korea current leader, Kim Jong Il it would be a major threats to the world stability.

In United States,a politician can pass their President seat to his son through fair election,and their parliament can keep in check of their president power.But,in China n Singapore,there is no such system to control dominating party leaders authorities.Sinapore still nevermind,coz she is small n our PAP leaders n ministers constantly being raped by other countries leaders.BUT,China will be a different story.If the leader happen to be as retard as LHL n North Korea leader, Kim Jong Il,or a terrorist like Iran president,it would be a disaster for the entire human being.

If such a retard leader in China decide to press a nuclear button to attack other countries out of anger,especially if the target is U.S n Russia,Oh my god.......u guys can imagine what will happen......

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Leeky @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:16:47 +0800

Leeky — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:16:47 +0800

JJ,

Dont worry, we will catch the big fishes only!!!

Like this Mr Nair who went wild in East Malaysia, then we backmail him and go and fly k in USA!!!!

I m in USA enjoying my guiness draught!!! how about u!!!

where r u now?

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by jojobeach @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:41:00 +0800

jojobeach — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:41:00 +0800

Originally posted by Leeky:

JJ,

hahaha.

now then u know us, u dont f ard , we kill them instead like this Dr Chee who is finished by our Dr V in NUS.

Wah.. I very scared leh Mr Leaky. Later you dig up those times I cheated the char kway teow uncle 20 cents, and all my scandalous affairs with my old lovers.... cannot leh.

I betta keep quite.. if not I kena blackmail by your familee....

Tolong ah Mr Leaky... spare me and my family ok ? Good.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Leeky @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:16:49 +0800

Leeky — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:16:49 +0800

Oil price drop 2 US$ 138 now, good news 4 Singapore!!!

But DW is up now ,play 2 asia market !!!!

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Leeky @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:08:46 +0800

Leeky — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:08:46 +0800

JJ,

hahaha.

now then u know us, u dont f ard , we kill them instead like this Dr Chee who is finished by our Dr V in NUS.

LKY is cultivating another North Korea by influencing China. replied by Fantagf @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:03:32 +0800

Fantagf — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:03:32 +0800

Originally posted by Leeky:

my son will not f first!! he is mr.wong fcuk first!!!!

my son leaves it 2 him WKS 2 sort out matter then my son takes the credit!!!

Confuse,now you talking about your son or grandson (kua kua loong)?

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