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LoginHow does the Russia/Georgia conflict affect Singapore.
89 posts
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I support the view of the majority international community in condemning Russia in the Georgia conflict as I believe this incident has major political significance for Singapore. However, I believe they should use extreme force to get Russia to move out of Georgia.
Georgia is also a small country by Western standards like Singapore. If Russia can occupy Georgia and the international community is just going to sit back and do "verbal" war, it just sends the message to dictatorial countries that if my military might is strong enough, I can do anything I want. At most I will only get verbal abuse and sanctions. End of the day, the conquered country is still mine!
The way I look at it, Russia is using Georgia's invasion of South Ossetia as an excuse to invade Georgia. From a logical standpoint, the argument I can make against Georgia is that since South Ossestia has been "freed" why are your troops still staying in Russia. But then again Russia is a communist country, so if you say that to them in their country, they are just probably going to lock you up for good. What do you think?
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If Russia can occupy Georgia and the international community is just going to sit back and do "verbal" war, it just sends the message to dictatorial countries that if my military might is strong enough, I can do anything I want.
So what about USA invade Iraq based on lies, do you support that Xenthar1 or don't support?
Edited by Poh Ah Pak 03 Sep `08, 3:09PM
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Extreme force as in military coercion? And whom might I ask is supposed to side Georgian interest against the might of the Russian army? The USA, whose troops are tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan and whose people are tired of the 'war-mongering' antics of Bush and co? Or god forbid, NATO?
And by doing so, nudge the whole of continental Europe and west into a second cold war with Moscow? What are the economical and social implications of that, given the world is already up to its neck with all these recession problems and the credit crisis?
No offense meant to you at all, but surely there are much better ways to tackle such thorny political issues instead of rushing of to the nearest armory no? If you ask me, I would prefer diplomacy and attempt to engage both Georgian and Russian sides to begin negotiation and reconciliation asap. The USA and the EU would do well to reprise the role as the mediator.
Edited by Paradise Lost 03 Sep `08, 3:16PM
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they dont toss dissidents into gulags anymore, do they?
No, I don't think they have gulags anymore.
Of course from time to time dissidents get "accidentally" shot.
Russian police disperse protest over journalist's death in custody
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080902/116471854.html
USA better, arrest them only:
Amy Goodman & Two Democracy Now! Producers Arrested at RNC Protest
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/2/amy_goodman
Singapore the best.
There are no journalists.
Only propagandists.
Edited by Poh Ah Pak 03 Sep `08, 4:26PM
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Hi Xenthar1,
I think you don't like Russia very much. Most of the news you see or view in the internet thru the western media were not 100% true. Could you please look thru the history and find out how Georgia was founded?
Another example of the western bad doings: why USA / EU attack Iraq when they claimed that Iraq has nuclear and can't find it? Oil is the main issue of this war!!!! USA depends alot on this...
Why USA dare not attack North Korea when eveyone knows that NK is using nulclear?
Why Kosvo can be divided out from Serbia? where the 2 small states have already separated in 1990s?
If Russia is so bad, then she will cut all supply to Europe. Whole Europe will feel the pitch of raising of fuel and gas cost.
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An American iron curtain around Russia
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?opt
Caucasus crisis
http://www.flonnet.com/stories/2
The Caucasus — Washington Risks Nuclear War by Miscalculation
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/Geopo
South Ossetia: The War We Don’t Know
Edited by Poh Ah Pak 03 Sep `08, 4:56PM
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If NATO goes to war with Russia, oil prices will climb again. Thanks to that, our inflation rate will climb again.
Even with this "verbal" war, Russia still holds the energy Ace over Europe. Europe is highly dependent on Russian oil and gas, and fears that Russia would pull cut supplies should situations worsen are justified indeed. Naturally, that would hurt both Russia and Europe.
Tension with Russia does not help Europe as it seemingly heads towards a recession. Singapore's exports to Europe and US could come to a standstill if situations worsen. Sad to say, ripple effects of any confrontation between Russia and NATO will be felt in our region.
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Originally posted by Xenthar1:
I support the view of the majority international community in condemning Russia in the Georgia conflict as I believe this incident has major political significance for Singapore. However, I believe they should use extreme force to get Russia to move out of Georgia.
Georgia is also a small country by Western standards like Singapore. If Russia can occupy Georgia and the international community is just going to sit back and do "verbal" war, it just sends the message to dictatorial countries that if my military might is strong enough, I can do anything I want. At most I will only get verbal abuse and sanctions. End of the day, the conquered country is still mine!
The way I look at it, Russia is using Georgia's invasion of South Ossetia as an excuse to invade Georgia. From a logical standpoint, the argument I can make against Georgia is that since South Ossestia has been "freed" why are your troops still staying in Russia. But then again Russia is a communist country, so if you say that to them in their country, they are just probably going to lock you up for good. What do you think?
can you pls make up your mind whether you want to find out how russia/georgia conflict affects sg or you're telling us that it has major political significance for sg?
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I agree to the calls for Xenthar 1 to have his facts straightened out, however he does have a valid point. That is that, how can any nation rebuke another nation's authority over his own territory.If we were to translate it into a singaporean context, *no offence to anybody here, please just take it as an example without prejudice.*It would be like if the Geylang district of Singapore were to declare self indepence, and took up arms as a means to defend their claim.Now let us say that the Malays of the area are responsible for this uprising, and that they turn towards Malaysia as a protector of their claim.Now Malaysia, seeing this opportunity too tempting to ignore or refuse, accepts this offer from Geylang. *Just an example*The Singapore government would obviously be enraged by the audacity and sheer ridiculousness of the situation. Afterall, it hurts their country's pride and stability. If every race were to do this in their own areas, what does this leave Singapore as? A fagmented country that would have no credibility no the global scale at all.So the singapore government would seek UN, ASEAN, as well as the support of the USA, to counter Malaysia's offer to protect Geylang's interests. After having done so, singapore would then most likely mobilise it's military, to quell this uprising, invading Geylang and reclaiming it.Malaysia then responds aggresively by going on an offensive, and invades singapore on the pretext of "Liberating" Geylang from it's oppressors.Ridiculous isn't it? *P.S ... this is my interpretation and example of the situation..please do not take offense, if you have any disagreements please correct me*To make matters worse, Singapore then begs for a ceasefire from a losing position, pointing an accusing finger at Malaysia, calling it all sorts of names. Reminds you of a person who is really a coward, picking a fight with a larger person, then screams for help when he realises that the person is not afraid to fight back, and that no one is willing to help him.The international community then sits around, barking and wagging fingers at Malaysia, threatening sanctions and severing ties with Malaysia. What good does it do Singapore? Nothing, we would have been humiliated, occupied and lost all international credibility. What does Malaysia gain? It's pride that it lost when singapore gained independence, the entire island of singapore, even if not in black and white and the everlasting support of Geylang, and whatever conditions it would like to impose on our country regarding the matter.So...In my opinion...I'd say that if Geogia had fought to the bitter end declaring open war upon Russia, thrashing all the way, making the Russians pay for every step into their homelands, no matter what the cost in blood. The international community would then have to respond...because it is no longer just an occupation...it is an act of violation...much like a rape. Afterall the Russians cannot back down from such a challenge or it's pride would be at stake, and would then be forced to fully subdue Georgia. If the Georgians had continue to struggle even after their capital had fallen, to salvage their pride as a nation. It would be a replay of a movie where the "Badguys" the Russians, attack a soveriegn state without a good cause, and the "Goodguys" the Georgians would be heroes in the international stage, instead of looking like fools who surrendered after a couple of days.Please be kind and not kill me over my opinion guys...it's just my take on it afterall...
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By the way, I do not believe that we should sit around talking about it. Worrying about oil prices is not morally right, when another nation has just been invaded (Or at least that's what I believe). The practice of non intervention and negotiating rather than conflict was practiced after world war one, it simply led to world war two, because everyone was afriad of the price that they would have to pay for conflict, and Nazi Germany then took advantage of their feeble foreign policies and bulit back it's military power. Much like what Russia is doing.
Apologies for any spelling mistakes. Again please forgive me if i've offended you.
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Originally posted by Tenebrae:
By the way, I do not believe that we should sit around talking about it. Worrying about oil prices is not morally right, when another nation has just been invaded (Or at least that's what I believe). The practice of non intervention and negotiating rather than conflict was practiced after world war one, it simply led to world war two, because everyone was afriad of the price that they would have to pay for conflict, and Nazi Germany then took advantage of their feeble foreign policies and bulit back it's military power. Much like what Russia is doing.
Apologies for any spelling mistakes. Again please forgive me if i've offended you.
Barroso, Sarkozy and Medvedev are holding a press conference right now, and it's not loking good.
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You are very observant, to say that there might be a geopolitical impact, or a message.
But what kind of message, this is the part I disagree with you a little.
In my opinion,
This does not threaten Singapore in any way.
If you say, what if Singapore is invaded, what will the world do?
Mmm....
To answer this question we have to go back to the UN concept.
First of all, the UN is supposed to be the sole international global institution, with paramount authority and a guarantor of world stability.
It's just that in the last few years, UN credibility and utility has been severely undermined.
If you remember, when USA defied the UN and invaded Iraq in broad daylight, there was actually many analysts and critics who have pointed out that the world has become a much more unstable place, and the UN role was being sabotaged.
After that, in another broad daylight violation of UN principles, NATO countries recently made a country, Kosovo.
This is in no way a minor matter.
UN is completely bypassed, spit, and trampled on.
Meanwhile, the rest of the world can only see.
Nothing to do.
When the world is being thought that it is acceptable to invade another sovereign country, and it is acceptable to carve out a country's part and made it as independent (Kosovo), the world become a more unstable place.
It is not surprising to see what happened after that. Russia is just playing a geopolitical game, just like what NATO countries did.
In my opinion, Russia made a mistake. Russia is wrong. However, I am less inclined to blame Russia because its only sin is to refuse to become "an honest loser" and stick to the rules, but replied in kind instead.
If you say whether this makes Singapore less safe or not, I dont know. I dont think there is an effect to Singapore. Probably it makes Singapore safer, because it teaches that unipolarity is unacceptable and rules-based international order must be reinstituted. The question is whether these supowerpowers can also see this lesson themselves and come back to the proper table, the UN.
If you notice, UN is very lame in this Russia-Georgia issue.
Impotent, nothing, quiet.
Ban Ki Moon is relegated to some bit-player status. Ban Ki Moon become like a stuntman, not shown in the cameras.
Meanwhile the others are becoming the main actors.
Why..???
You see what I mean.
Due to the sabotaging and undermining of the UN in recent years, UN become worthless, these conflicts got regelated to a regional contest between regional powers, outside the UN body.
If you say this is making Singapore less safe, ok probably so, but this did not start with this Russo-Georgian war, it started years ago with American-Iraq war and culminating with Kosovo. The international order was totally destroyed.
What I am most dissapointed with, is actually with Ban Ki Moon. He is being way too passive right now. He should assert himself, and represent the world. I am a little dissapointed, considering also he is a fellow Asian in a world body.
Meat Pao.
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if the topic is how it affects singapore, i'd say it wont really affect us much unless ur gonna think of chaos theory. The south ossetian war is too far geographically to affect us much but it does however prove to be a good opportunity for PAP to use this incident to send a message to singaporeans that it is important to serve ns and keep our country safe.
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As Poh Ah Pak stated, Russia is now sending a clear message to the world that they can do anything they wish because of their military, economical prowess. Every one watches on as a bully beats up another person, and all we do is shout insults at him...not very effective right? The world needs to take affirmative action against Russia, to set an example.
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Originally posted by Tenebrae:
... Geylang district of Singapore were to declare ... an example* The Singapore government would obviously ... all. So the singapore government would seek ... offensive, and invades singapore on the pretext...it lost when singapore gained independence, ...
Hi Tenebrae,
Thanks. I believe you have summed up nicely exactly what I was thinking about. Of course, there are people who feel that provoking a war will start another war and that it will be bad for the region.
That is true. But we can say this now only because is does not affect us. What if Singapore is the one now in trouble? Can the voices who call for negotiation stand by their own viewpoint if it is their own country that is occupied!?!? Call me selfish if you will but I am looking at this issue from a context of a Singaporean. Not as a foreigner or not a "as long as it does not impact me I don't care" mentality. The point I am trying to point out is like the example that you have given. What if Singapore (being a small country) is the victim. And will the current political events set a precedent for big countries to behave in this manner in the future. If so, all "small" countries will be impacted.
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