Israel hits Palestine again while West Cheers Them On
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what is reported in the papers is what they wan u to read...
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Originally posted by Atobe:
If HAMAS plays with fire, it has to be prepared to be burn.
One has to be prepared to reap what one sows.
Israel will ignore the blatant attempts by HAMAS to use their own Palestinian people as Human Shield, by firing at Israel within the midst of the Palestinian schools, residential areas, and public places such as mosques and markets.
HAMAS will have to learn that it will have to pay a high price for the foolish strategy that it purposefully perpetuate for a useless objective that reveal itself as being a pawn used at will by Iran.
The following articles since 2007 will show the despicably callous attitude of HAMAS towards their own Palestinian people.
‘YouTube: Motar Bombs shot from UN School in Gaza’
‘YouTube: Weapons in Gaza Mosque struck by Israel Air Force 1 Jan 2009’
‘YouTube: Rockets ready for launch in Gaza struck by Israel Air Force 1 Jan 2009’
‘YouTube: Israel Air Force Pinpoint Strike on Grad Missile Launchers in Gaza 30 Dec 2008’
Even the independent news agency has confirmed that the recent Israeli artillery retaliation that hit a UN school - was a result of some HAMAS militants purposefully firing from the vicinity of the UN school.
This part of the news was not highlighted by the reporters.
Israel will continue to ignore HAMAS use of the Palestinian people as Human Shields when firing the undirected rockets and motars into Israeli villages.
It is no use for HAMAS to cry foul or seek world sympathy.
Under similar circumstances, if ex-PM Mahathir had acted in his extreme stupidity to carry out his threat of bombing Singapore, while using his civilians as Human Shield - do you expect the SAF to allow Singaporeans to be exposed to Mahathir's explosive antics, while we retaliate with one arm tied behind our backs ?
After all, the Palestinians have already been dehumanised into the Other. Like how Hitler called Jews "sub-human parasites". So its not like any of you would see them as fellow human beings.
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Originally posted by GHoST_18:
what is reported in the papers is what they wan u to read...
True.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Here's a new look at the Israeli invasion of Gaza.
Guess What? Lots Of Oil,
Natural Gas In Gaza!
A Secret Behind Israel's Siege of Gaza: Palestinians
Have Oil and Natural Gas ResourcesMartha Rose Crow, M.S.
1-7-09http://www.rense.com/general84/guess.htm
- "there is an abundance of oil reserves both on the strip and offshore" http://blogs.state.gov/index.php/entries/q_israeli_palestinian_peace/
- "The Palestinians are, in aggregate, energy rich. For the past six years, the Palestinian Authority has been sitting on a major gas field that contains at least 1.4 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of gas."
- http://www.epalestine.com/PalestineEnergy.pdf
- "Palestine was rewarded with an oil reserve 22 miles off of the coast of the Gaza Strip. The entire country was excited by this natural mineral that would hopefully provide them with the economic freedom and financial stability they desired. Unfortunately, the financial success did not come directly on the heels of their discovery"
- http://www.oilandgasinvestingglossary.com/palestines_natural_gas_troubles.asp
- To find the real reasons behind conflicts and wars in this world, you need to follow some or all of four things: Money, blood, power or natural resources (usually oil or natural gas but it can be cobalt like in the Congo).
- Oil is behind the conflicts in Darfur, Somalia and other similar places.
- The war in Afghanistan was never about finding bin Laden. It was about uniting Afghanistan into a single government so a pipeline could be constructed to bring a million barrels a day from areas north of Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Russia to markets (http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/sardi7.html).
- We need to stop listening to what the "official" media tells us when it comes to conflicts and wars because the official media is corporate and government owned and/or controlled by government. Less than one percent of the "news" in the world today is reported and what is reported is usually heavily edited and slanted for propaganda purposes.
- Governments don't want the world to know that huge genocides are going on just because of oil, gas or other natural resources. The world might get angry as a body and might organize to reject the genocides. Big Oil and Energy doesn't want that to happen because it will interfere with their profits.
- Historically, it has been "efficient" for Big Energy's short-term profit line to steal resources or get them "lower than wholesale" than to pay the owners decently for them. This is how they've always done business (force by boot and gun).
- The World has been watching Israel's genocide of the Palestinians for a long time but incredibly, the media never mentions the Palestinians' natural resources or the fact that Israel has thwarted Palestine's efforts to develop them.
- The Palestinians are usually portrayed on television as victims of impossible, cyclical poverty. Ironic the Palestinians wouldn't have to live in poverty if Israel would let them develop their natural resources.
- But developing Palestine's energy resources wouldn't be in Israel's self-interest. The oil and gas revenues would empower the Palestinians. They wouldn't have to starve to death or struggle in poverty. Empowered Palestinians would be able to invest in infrastructure of their legal government, Hamas.
- Israel wants the Palestinians crushed and disappeared so Israel can expand its territories for its citizens, have better access to the sea for its navy and serve as watchdog for US and Israeli hegemony.
- Israel wants the Palestinians' oil and gas for its own because Israel needs it for its country's needs. Middle eastern countries are loathe to sell their supplies to Israel. The rulers and people of area countries know that Israel has been slaughtering their Muslim kin for over six decades and it is against their morals to help Israel with energy supplies, especially fuel for Israeli tanks, airplanes and military vehicles.
- To thwart Palestine from developing its energy supplies, Israel keeps the region in turmoil plus in 2005, "Israel delivered a major blow to the Palestinians' fledgling oil industry by choosing to import natural gas from Egypt. By doing this, Israel completely bypassed its neighbor in favor of making a political statement. The Israeli government feared that any money given to Palestine would be later used to fund acts of terrorism against Israel."http://www.oilandgasinvestingglossary.com/palestines_natural_gas_troubles.asp)
- Finding information about Palestine's oil and gas resources is difficult. Even wikipedia doesn't mention it nor do most encyclopedias and other academic resources.
- The major corporate media has completely ignored and/or has remained blissfully ignorant about Palestinian oil and gas because it goes against the script of how powerful hidden western corporate and government interests want to portray Palestine.
- Western media, Israel and the US would rather have the world see Palestinians groveling in extreme poverty and/or portrayed as "terrorists" who want to kill everyone.
- Palestinians, empowered from oil and gas revenues, could live decently. Shed of their impoverished image, the world would see them as the Bright, Shining Human Beings they are. But Bright, Shining Human Beings are harder to disappear than those depicted by governments and the media as untermenschen (nazi German term for "inferior people").
- If you want to know more about this important subject, the best places to look are oil and energy websites and publications.
- Palestinian oil and gas is no secret in the energy field. It's just a secret to everyone else.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
What about it?
Seems everyone's just ignoring information that they're uncomfortable with.
Jeff Rense is a conspiracy theorist and radio talk show host of Jeff Rense Program.
About Martha Rose Crow, M.s:
Martha Crow is a poet, mystic, feminist and cultural scientist living in Holland. She holds four university degrees and is one of the first persons in the world to score a perfect score on the Logic part of the Graduate Records (GRE) Examination. She can be reached at [email protected].
Her censored blog sites are: http://hiddenmurder.blogspot.com or http://hiddenmurder.blogspot.com
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Jeff Rense is a conspiracy theorist and radio talk show host of Jeff Rense Program.
About Martha Rose Crow, M.s:
Martha Crow is a poet, mystic, feminist and cultural scientist living in Holland. She holds four university degrees and is one of the first persons in the world to score a perfect score on the Logic part of the Graduate Records (GRE) Examination. She can be reached at [email protected].
Her censored blog sites are: http://hiddenmurder.blogspot.com or http://hiddenmurder.blogspot.com
You can attack the author all you want. Wait a minute, did you even do that? I don't think so. The only things you posted was to describe the author and to label Jeff Rense as a "conspiracy theorists". What about the information she presented? There were links.
So what about the information presented do you feel is a "conspiracy theory"?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
You can attack the author all you want. Wait a minute, did you even do that? I don't think so. The only things you posted was to describe the author and to label Jeff Rense as a "conspiracy theorists". What about the information she presented? There were links.
So what about the information presented do you feel is a "conspiracy theory"?
The onus is on you to present information from reliable sources.
I cross check information from Google with information from National Libraries and reputable bookstores for its credibility.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
After all, the Palestinians have already been dehumanised into the Other. Like how Hitler called Jews "sub-human parasites". So its not like any of you would see them as fellow human beings.
Unfortunately, I see Palestinians as humans who have dehumanised themselves to the point where they allow themselves to be used as political pawns.Unfortunately also, you have already shown yourself to be dehumanised by willingly using Hitler's murderous antics as a cover for the actions of HAMAS towards Israeli civilians.
The older Jews - whether Israeli citizens or not - have been through the Holocaust, and they will never allow themselves to be held hostage or victimised again by any group or country.
It was foolishness on HAMAS leadership to think that they can move World Opinion by incurring as much Palastinian casualties as they possibly can achieve.
Hundreds of wounded and dead PALESTINIANS children and babies purposefully sacrificed by HAMAS leadership CANNOT be compared to the experience of the millions of hapless Jews who were hunted down like rats by Hitler's storm troopers and pushed into gas chambers ?
Do you think that the hundreds of wounded and dead Palestinian children and babies can be compared to the the millions of Chinese in Nankin who were treated as sport by Japanese soldiers - with the Chinese men used in a competition amongst Japanese Officers as to who can chop off the most head with their samurai swords, or the women bound to chairs for the sexual satisfaction of batalions of war weary troops, while adults and babies were used for bayonet practises ?
The millions of Jews in Europe during WW2 were hapless victims as the millions of Chinese in Nankin, and the many other Asians slaugthered by the Japanese in WW2.
Why have you avoided giving a reply as how the SAF should respond if Mad Mahathir should carry out his explosive antics to actually bomb Singaporeans while using Malaysian civilians as human shields ?
Should the SAF retaliate with one arm tied behind the back ?
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
The onus is on you to present information from reliable sources.
I cross check information from Google with information from National Libraries and reputable bookstores for its credibility.
Are you implying that I presented inaccurate information? If so, please state your case.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Unfortunately, I see Palestinians as humans who have dehumanised themselves to the point where they allow themselves to be used as political pawns.Unfortunately also, you have already shown yourself to be dehumanised by willingly using Hitler's murderous antics as a cover for the actions of HAMAS towards Israeli civilians.
The older Jews - whether Israeli citizens or not - have been through the Holocaust, and they will never allow themselves to be held hostage or victimised again by any group or country.
It was foolishness on HAMAS leadership to think that they can move World Opinion by incurring as much Palastinian casualties as they possibly can achieve.
Hundreds of wounded and dead PALESTINIANS children and babies purposefully sacrificed by HAMAS leadership CANNOT be compared to the experience of the millions of hapless Jews who were hunted down like rats by Hitler's storm troopers and pushed into gas chambers ?
Do you think that the hundreds of wounded and dead Palestinian children and babies can be compared to the the millions of Chinese in Nankin who were treated as sport by Japanese soldiers - with the Chinese men used in a competition amongst Japanese Officers as to who can chop off the most head with their samurai swords, or the women bound to chairs for the sexual satisfaction of batalions of war weary troops, while adults and babies were used for bayonet practises ?
The millions of Jews in Europe during WW2 were hapless victims as the millions of Chinese in Nankin, and the many other Asians slaugthered by the Japanese in WW2.
Why have you avoided giving a reply as how the SAF should respond if Mad Mahathir should carry out his explosive antics to actually bomb Singaporeans while using Malaysian civilians as human shields ?
Should the SAF retaliate with one arm tied behind the back ?
I have not sided with Hamas, nor have tried to whitewash its actions. My WWII analogy was simply to demonstrate that Palestinian lives are worth much less than Israeli lives. Also, the analogy of the Warsaw Ghetto serves to show that Israel, which controls most of Gaza's borders have isolated the Gazan population and deprived it of basic necessities. Before striking Gaza, the IAF drops leaflets warning Gazans to leave the area. How can they do that when Israel prevents them from leaving? If you cannot fathom the actuality and magnitude of this, then it is you who has been dehumanised.
At the same time, I recognise that Hamas deserves retaliation for firing rockets into Israel. But with Israel's retaliation, the casualties are simply too unacceptable. It is here that you show yourself to be dehumanised again when you rationalise the loss of 550+ (and rising) Palestinian dead and 2800 wounded with a fraction of Israeli casualties. The article from the JP states 58 Palestinians (I'm sure there were more buried under rubble) while 40 rockets from Hamas didnt even kill even one Israeli. Sure, the Palestinians voted Hamas in. But what could you expect them to do when Israel is constantly making life hell for them? Do you expect them to continue to roll over and let Israel continue oppressing them?
At the end of the day, this'll probably go on until either the Palestinians or Israeli are exterminated. The conflict has gone on too long to be tractable.
Using Singapore and Malaysia as an example is a flawed analogy. Malaysia is not occupying Singapore, nor restricting border access, nor controlling the flow of food, fuel or medical coming into Singapore. If we two fight, it'll be a WAR between two modern armies. Not a modern army against ragtag group of guerilla fighters. I'm sure I said something to this effect earlier on.
And also, what about the dimension of Gaza's oil and natural gas reserves? With that new information, things change. It no longer belongs to the petty area of territorial concerns and religious pride, but geostrategy.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Are you implying that I presented inaccurate information? If so, please state your case.
The article is posted by a female blogger and appeared on the website of a conspiracy theorist.
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The operation Israel has begun, cannot be stopped until Hamas surrenders unconditionally, turning in all personnel to Israel for detention and investigation by an international tribunal.
Israel cannot respond to a truce unless Hamas is willing to turn itself in. Naturally, they won't give a flying rat's ass to the plight of the innoncent Palestinians caught in the collaterals, and we see the true face of Hamas.
Or, until the Palestinian people, are willing to start weeding out the Hamas influence among themselves and turn them in, Israel has little moral obligation to respond to a truce or ceasefire.
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Cheers! Kick their ass!
Drop a T-Virus on their ground.
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Hamas did not have the well-fare of their people, as they are a armed group of terrorist - if any peace they are out of job and lost power !!! They just want to start trouble at even at the expense of their own people life !!! Yes they go shooting mortars and rockets into isreal and hit into the middle of their own people - using them as live human shields !!! This are a armed crazy army, not pitiful people !!! If their own people support it , then when people go after them and kick their asses, then too bad for them , they ask for it. If you want to shoot mortars and rockets at others, if people come after you with everything, you get kill of destory, that is your own asking for it !!!
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Originally posted by storywolf:
Hamas did not have the well-fare of their people, as they are a armed group of terrorist – if any peace they are out of job and lost power !!!
They just want to start trouble at even at the expense of their own people life !!!
Yes they go shooting mortars and rockets into isreal and hit into the middle of their own people – using them as live human shields !!!
This are a armed crazy army, not pitiful people !!! If their own people support it , then when people go after them and kick their asses, then too bad for them , they ask for it. If you want to shoot mortars and rockets at others, if people come after you with everything, you get kill of destory, that is your own asking for it !!!
totally man....... damn ragheads.....
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Who are the ones who voted Hamas into power?
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Hamas wasn't voted into power....
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
The operation Israel has begun, cannot be stopped until Hamas surrenders unconditionally, turning in all personnel to Israel for detention and investigation by an international tribunal.
Israel cannot respond to a truce unless Hamas is willing to turn itself in. Naturally, they won't give a flying rat's ass to the plight of the innoncent Palestinians caught in the collaterals, and we see the true face of Hamas.
Or, until the Palestinian people, are willing to start weeding out the Hamas influence among themselves and turn them in, Israel has little moral obligation to respond to a truce or ceasefire.
i think the israeli are basically taking out the radical elements within the Hamas and the foreign volunteers, eradicate the missile and tunnels. Hamas is basically well establish with the people so i don;t think u can officially Weed out Hamas.
Dore Gold, a senior adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon who has written extensively on Islamic terrorism, said Hamas, aided by Saudi Arabia and Iran, had spent much of the last decade "creating a vast civilian infrastructure with schools, clinics, day care centers and a vast network of propaganda, and what you are seeing now is the fruits of that long effort."
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Hamas wasn't voted into power....
Well they did.
By John Ward Anderson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, January 29, 2005; Page A22GAZA CITY, Jan. 28 -- The radical Palestinian group Hamas, which has conducted numerous suicide bombings against Israelis and which the United States considers a terrorist organization, won an overwhelming victory in Thursday's local elections in the Gaza Strip, capturing almost two-thirds of all the seats being contested and seizing power in seven of the 10 towns where elections were held, according to independent analyses of results released on Friday.
Hamas, known officially as the Islamic Resistance Movement, won 76 of the 118 total seats, dealing a staggering blow to the Fatah movement, which was founded by Yasser Arafat and has been the most powerful Palestinian party for more than 30 years. Fatah, which is also the party of the Palestinian Authority's new president, Mahmoud Abbas, won 38 seats and took control of three councils. Three independent candidates and one from the radical Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine also won seats.
BUT They Did "this" in GAZA.
Latest Update: 02.03.07, 14:51 / Israel News Hamas operatives in Gaza completely destroyed Fatah’s security headquarters in the Gaza Strip, at the height of another day of inter-factional violence in the Palestinian Authority.
Hamas gunmen set fire to the Palestinian Preventative Security Forces building in northern Gaza, burning it to the ground. Immediately afterwards they continued on the Force 17 headquarters – Fatah’s general and military intelligence staff, and destroyed it as well.
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If its the case that the Palestinian people "voted" for Hamas, then Hamas' violent attacks on Israel can be considered to be the will of the Palestinian people. How can the Gazans not deserve their fate from retaliatory strikes?
Its a sad world.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
I have not sided with Hamas, nor have tried to whitewash its actions. My WWII analogy was simply to demonstrate that Palestinian lives are worth much less than Israeli lives. Also, the analogy of the Warsaw Ghetto serves to show that Israel, which controls most of Gaza's borders have isolated the Gazan population and deprived it of basic necessities. Before striking Gaza, the IAF drops leaflets warning Gazans to leave the area. How can they do that when Israel prevents them from leaving? If you cannot fathom the actuality and magnitude of this, then it is you who has been dehumanised.
At the same time, I recognise that Hamas deserves retaliation for firing rockets into Israel. But with Israel's retaliation, the casualties are simply too unacceptable. It is here that you show yourself to be dehumanised again when you rationalise the loss of 550+ (and rising) Palestinian dead and 2800 wounded with a fraction of Israeli casualties. The article from the JP states 58 Palestinians (I'm sure there were more buried under rubble) while 40 rockets from Hamas didnt even kill even one Israeli. Sure, the Palestinians voted Hamas in. But what could you expect them to do when Israel is constantly making life hell for them? Do you expect them to continue to roll over and let Israel continue oppressing them?
At the end of the day, this'll probably go on until either the Palestinians or Israeli are exterminated. The conflict has gone on too long to be tractable.
Using Singapore and Malaysia as an example is a flawed analogy. Malaysia is not occupying Singapore, nor restricting border access, nor controlling the flow of food, fuel or medical coming into Singapore. If we two fight, it'll be a WAR between two modern armies. Not a modern army against ragtag group of guerilla fighters. I'm sure I said something to this effect earlier on.
And also, what about the dimension of Gaza's oil and natural gas reserves? With that new information, things change. It no longer belongs to the petty area of territorial concerns and religious pride, but geostrategy.
Do you need to be seen to take the side of Hamas or white-wash their actions - after the many views you have offered that clamour for the understanding of Hamas acts of atrocities, while turning a total blind eye to the callous attitude of Hamas in placing Palestinian lives in danger ?As was mentioned before, it takes a great leap of imagination to understand the purpose of your efforts to compare the treatment of Jews in WW2 to be of any parallel to the sufferings of the Palestinians in Gaza.
Why do you not compare the living conditions of the Palestinians in the West Bank to the self-imposed pain and sufferings preferred by the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip - by supporting the Iranian financed Hamas ?
Why did the Israelis not walled up the Palestinians in the West Bank ?
Did Hamas make any announcement to Israelis when and where their rockets and mortar shells will land ?
At least the Israeli had announced their intention and had given the Hamas fighters time to move out of the intended target area.
Did the Israelis prevent the Palestinians from leaving the targetted area ?
Do you know that the Gaza Strip can be seen on the World Map, while this little red dot can hardly even be seen ?
Yet this little red dot can accomodate 4.5 million Singaporeans with enough space to move out of specific areas to allow a gathering of 300,000 persons at any one time - who are you trying to kid that the Palestinians are prevented from leaving a targetted area, and have no place to run to avoid Israeli counter attacks ?
Have I been dehumanised, or have you allowed yourself to be suckered by Hamas propaganda and allow yourself to think that everyone is numbed and dehumanised by the supposed atrocities - that are largely and purposefully self-inflicted ?
If you recogonised the legitimate claim of Israel to retaliate against Hamas unprovoked and provocative acts of attacking Israel - why did you not also extend that understanding by questioning Hamas agenda of launching such attacks from densely populated Palestinian areas ?
Why do you not question Hamas agenda in using their Palestinian civilians as Human Shield to cover their cowardly acts ?
Did the Palestinian population in Gaza voted Hamas into power, or did the Hamas politician decide to take matters into their own hands and evicted from the Gaza Strip the legitimately elected PLA Government of President Abbas - and unilaterraly declare the Gaza Strip to be led by a Hamas Government ?
Amazingly, no Middle-eastern country has recognised this Hamas Government except for Iran - who treat this Hamas Government as no more then a political pawn.
If this is not another one of your acts of succumbing to propaganda ?
You must be naive to expect Israel to give solace and comfort to Hamas and the Palestinians population that remained behind and give material and morale support to Hamas - when Hamas has declared their objective of destroying the State of Israel ?
Is there any use for your seemingly moralistic statement in red - when you have already succumbed to Hamas propaganda ?
It is plain stupidity to believe that Hamas or their Iranian backers will have any means to destroy Israel.
Is the Malaysia-Singapore analogy flawed, when the intertwined history of these two countries over the last 40 odd years have led to the edge of a local conflict ?
Prior to the recently concluded Pedra Branca issue, there were a few incidents which had resulted in Singapore Coast Guard and Navy vessels rubbing hulls with the Malaysian Navy and Police Patrol Boats.
The war of words in the 1963 and 1969 had resulted in racial riots that spread across our state borders, and more recent events had even the previous PM Mahathir on different occassions to have been reported to be threatening to shut off the water pipes, bomb Singapore, and even to unilaterally cut off the Causeway to build a new link bridge on their side of the territories.
All these acts would have constituted Acts of Wars - and the venom in the relationship had even permeated into the Malaysian Armed Forces, which even had a senior officer - in the rank of a Major - to contribute an article to one of their military journal that promoted the poisoning of our resevoirs as the opening gambit in any war.
If you believe that the MAF and the SAF are equally matched, those who are more knowledgeable than you will probably excuse your ignorance, but will not forgive you - if you are a politician - for making any wrong gamble in any miscalculation due to your ignorance.
It is just as well that you remain harmless in this Speaker's Corner and indulge in all your speculations based on propaganda and misinformation.
Such misinformation will be similar to the sudden publicity given to the sudden discovery of oil and gas in the Gaza Strip.
Do you seriously believe that the Israelis do not have any earlier knowledge of this event and willingly give up the Sinai Peninsular and the Gaza Strip after a hard fought 6-Day War in the mid-1960s - when oil supply was cut off that resulted in the first ever oil crisis in the World ?
If the Palestinians have no where to run in an Israeli attack, where do you expect the Palestinians in the tight Gaza space to move to when the oil and gas in the Gaza Strip will need to be exploited ?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
I have not sided with Hamas, nor have tried to whitewash its actions. My WWII analogy was simply to demonstrate that Palestinian lives are worth much less than Israeli lives. Also, the analogy of the Warsaw Ghetto serves to show that Israel, which controls most of Gaza's borders have isolated the Gazan population and deprived it of basic necessities. Before striking Gaza, the IAF drops leaflets warning Gazans to leave the area. How can they do that when Israel prevents them from leaving? If you cannot fathom the actuality and magnitude of this, then it is you who has been dehumanised.
At the same time, I recognise that Hamas deserves retaliation for firing rockets into Israel. But with Israel's retaliation, the casualties are simply too unacceptable. It is here that you show yourself to be dehumanised again when you rationalise the loss of 550+ (and rising) Palestinian dead and 2800 wounded with a fraction of Israeli casualties. The article from the JP states 58 Palestinians (I'm sure there were more buried under rubble) while 40 rockets from Hamas didnt even kill even one Israeli. Sure, the Palestinians voted Hamas in. But what could you expect them to do when Israel is constantly making life hell for them? Do you expect them to continue to roll over and let Israel continue oppressing them?
At the end of the day, this'll probably go on until either the Palestinians or Israeli are exterminated. The conflict has gone on too long to be tractable.
Using Singapore and Malaysia as an example is a flawed analogy. Malaysia is not occupying Singapore, nor restricting border access, nor controlling the flow of food, fuel or medical coming into Singapore. If we two fight, it'll be a WAR between two modern armies. Not a modern army against ragtag group of guerilla fighters. I'm sure I said something to this effect earlier on.
And also, what about the dimension of Gaza's oil and natural gas reserves? With that new information, things change. It no longer belongs to the petty area of territorial concerns and religious pride, but geostrategy.
Do you need to be seen to take the side of Hamas or white-wash their actions with the many views that clamour for the understanding of their acts of atrocities, while turning a total blind eye to their callous attitude in placing Palestinian lives in danger ?As was mentioned before, it takes a great leap of imagination to understand the purpose of your efforts to compare the treatment of Jews in WW2 to be of any parallel to the sufferings of the Palestinians in Gaza.
Why do you not compare the living conditions of the Palestinians in the West Bank to the self-imposed pain and sufferings preferred by the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip - by supporting the Iranian financed Hamas ?
Why did the Israelis not walled up the Palestinians in the West Bank ?
Did Hamas make any announcement to Israelis when and where their rockets and mortar shells will land ?
At least the Israeli had announced their intention and had given the Hamas fighters time to move out of the intended target area.
Did the Israelis prevent the Palestinians from leaving the targetted area ?
Do you know that the Gaza Strip can be seen on the World Map, while this little red dot can hardly even be seen ?
Yet this little red dot can accomodate 4.5 million Singaporeans with enough space to move out of specific areas to allow a gathering of 300,000 persons at any one time - who are you trying to kid that the Palestinians are prevented from leaving a targetted area, and have no place to run to avoid Israeli counter attacks ?
Have I been dehumanised, or have you allowed yourself to be suckered by Hamas propaganda and allow yourself to think that everyone is numbed and dehumanised by the supposed atrocities - that are largely and purposefully self-inflicted ?
If you recogonised the legitimate claim of Israel to retaliate against Hamas unprovoked and provocative acts of attacking Israel - why did you not also extend that understanding by questioning Hamas agenda of launching such attacks from densely populated Palestinian areas ?
Why do you not question Hamas agenda in using their Palestinian civilians as Human Shield to cover their cowardly acts ?
Did the Palestinian population in Gaza voted Hamas into power, or did the Hamas politician decide to take matters into their own hands and evicted from the Gaza Strip the legitimately elected PLA Government of President Abbas - and unilaterraly declare the Gaza Strip to be led by a Hamas Government ?
Amazingly, no Middle-eastern country has recognised this Hamas Government except for Iran - who treat this Hamas Government as no more then a political pawn.
If this is not another one of your acts of succumbing to propaganda ?
You must be naive to expect Israel to give solace and comfort to Hamas and the Palestinians population that remained behind and give material and morale support to Hamas - when Hamas has declared their objective of destroying the State of Israel ?
Is there any use for your seemingly moralistic statement in red - when you have already succumbed to Hamas propaganda ?
It is plain stupidity to believe that Hamas or their Iranian backers will have any means to destroy Israel.
Is the Malaysia-Singapore analogy flawed, when the intertwined history of these two countries over the last 40 odd years have led to the edge of a local conflict ?
Prior to the recently concluded Pedra Branca issue, there were a few incidents which had resulted in Singapore Coast Guard and Navy vessels rubbing hulls with the Malaysian Navy and Police Patrol Boats.
The war of words in the 1963 and 1969 had resulted in racial riots that spread across our state borders, and more recent events had even the previous PM Mahathir on different occassions to have been reported to be threatening to shut off the water pipes, bomb Singapore, and even to unilaterally cut off the Causeway to build a new link bridge on their side of the territories.
All these acts would have constituted Acts of Wars - and the venom in the relationship had even permeated into the Malaysian Armed Forces, which even had a senior officer - in the rank of a Major - to contribute an article to one of their military journal that promoted the poisoning of our resevoirs as the opening gambit in any war.
If you believe that the MAF and the SAF are equally matched, those who are more knowledgeable than you will probably excuse your ignorance, but will not forgive you - if you are a politician - for making any wrong gamble in any miscalculation due to your ignorance.
It is just as well that you remain harmless in this Speaker's Corner and indulge in all your speculations based on propaganda and misinformation.
Such misinformation will be similar to the sudden publicity given to the sudden discovery of oil and gas in the Gaza Strip.
Do you seriously believe that the Israelis do not have any earlier knowledge of this event and willingly give up the Sinai Peninsular and the Gaza Strip after a hard fought 6-Day War in the mid-1960s - when oil supply was cut off that resulted in the first ever oil crisis in the World ?
If the Palestinians have no where to run in an Israeli attack, where do you expect the Palestinians in the tight Gaza space to move to when the oil and gas in the Gaza Strip will need to be exploited ?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
I have not sided with Hamas, nor have tried to whitewash its actions. My WWII analogy was simply to demonstrate that Palestinian lives are worth much less than Israeli lives. Also, the analogy of the Warsaw Ghetto serves to show that Israel, which controls most of Gaza's borders have isolated the Gazan population and deprived it of basic necessities. Before striking Gaza, the IAF drops leaflets warning Gazans to leave the area. How can they do that when Israel prevents them from leaving? If you cannot fathom the actuality and magnitude of this, then it is you who has been dehumanised.
At the same time, I recognise that Hamas deserves retaliation for firing rockets into Israel. But with Israel's retaliation, the casualties are simply too unacceptable. It is here that you show yourself to be dehumanised again when you rationalise the loss of 550+ (and rising) Palestinian dead and 2800 wounded with a fraction of Israeli casualties. The article from the JP states 58 Palestinians (I'm sure there were more buried under rubble) while 40 rockets from Hamas didnt even kill even one Israeli. Sure, the Palestinians voted Hamas in. But what could you expect them to do when Israel is constantly making life hell for them? Do you expect them to continue to roll over and let Israel continue oppressing them?
At the end of the day, this'll probably go on until either the Palestinians or Israeli are exterminated. The conflict has gone on too long to be tractable.
Using Singapore and Malaysia as an example is a flawed analogy. Malaysia is not occupying Singapore, nor restricting border access, nor controlling the flow of food, fuel or medical coming into Singapore. If we two fight, it'll be a WAR between two modern armies. Not a modern army against ragtag group of guerilla fighters. I'm sure I said something to this effect earlier on.
And also, what about the dimension of Gaza's oil and natural gas reserves? With that new information, things change. It no longer belongs to the petty area of territorial concerns and religious pride, but geostrategy.
so let's assume you are Israel's leader, what would you do?
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Googoomuck, I take utmost offence at your pathetic accusation that I am twisting historical facts. The contribution of military aid and paramilitary support does not tantamount to a belligerent of a war. This is fact. You continue to publicise your blatant lack of knowledge and stupidity by continuing to reply to posts here. In what instances I changed any due course of history? There is no uniformed essence of history as I mentioned history is perceptive. Anyway, "Palestinian sources" mentioned the casualities were MOSTLY civilians? How do you define "Palestinian sources"? Do the U.N and humanitarian organizations operating in Gaza constitute Palestinian entities? Numerous independent sources pointed out Israel's blatant acts of targeting civilian infrastructure of the unsubstantiated claims of Hamas operating from civilian buildings. The Zionist terrorists bombed U.N school as well which the U.N demands an investigation. The argument that this conflict could only end with the extermination of the Palestinians is horrific and reeks of Jewish extremism. One could also argue the extermination of the Jews as well. However, the discussions put across here should only revolve around the preservation of the sancity of human lives. Hamas has as much legitimate right to defend Gaza as much as Israel to defend its state. So, in order to put this discussion in perspective, I advice you to refer your sources well. And extermination should specifically be reserved for extremists on both sides which includes elites from the Zionist movements. Read your history well. If you need any pointers and interpretatation, googoomuck, you can always ask someone who has the right knowledge of the field you failed miserably in.
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Originally posted by Jarhum:
Googoomuck,
I take utmost offence at your pathetic accusation that I am twisting historical facts. The contribution of military aid and paramilitary support does not tantamount to a belligerent of a war. This is fact. You continue to publicise your blatant lack of knowledge and stupidity by continuing to reply to posts here.In what instances I changed any due course of history? There is no uniformed essence of history as I mentioned history is perceptive.
Anyway, “Palestinian sources” mentioned the casualities were MOSTLY civilians? How do you define “Palestinian sources”? Do the U.N and humanitarian organizations operating in Gaza constitute Palestinian entities? Numerous independent sources pointed out Israel’s blatant acts of targeting civilian infrastructure of the unsubstantiated claims of Hamas operating from civilian buildings. The Zionist terrorists bombed U.N school as well which the U.N demands an investigation.
The argument that this conflict could only end with the extermination of the Palestinians is horrific and reeks of Jewish extremism. One could also argue the extermination of the Jews as well. However, the discussions put across here should only revolve around the preservation of the sancity of human lives.
Hamas has as much legitimate right to defend Gaza as much as Israel to defend its state.
So, in order to put this discussion in perspective, I advice you to refer your sources well. And extermination should specifically be reserved for extremists on both sides which includes elites from the Zionist movements.
Read your history well. If you need any pointers and interpretatation, googoomuck, you can always ask someone who has the right knowledge of the field you failed miserably in.
Jarhum,
I am glad that you admitted yourself that 'there is no uniformed essence of history and that history is perceptive', by your own words, in your reply to googomuck. Enough said. You admitted to twisting historical facts to suit your twisted arab propaganda. Thank you. At least others know where you stand.Please do not under-estimate others who disagree with your propaganda as you continually do here, arab propagandist. You have freedom of speech here, regardless of whether you are a singaporean or a foriegner claiming to be singaporean, BuT do not abuse it. Then, its still your perogative.
So, 'Israeli sources' is not to be believed? And 'Palestinian sources' MUST be believed? Are you implying that? EVEN UN dare not confirm 100% that there were no militants in the said school, you dare, arab propagandist?
Hamas has a 'right' to bomb innocent jews in Israel, as well as as to hide amongst civilian in civilian centres, putting innocent Gaza people in the line of fire as well? Is that what you are claiming?
If you truly want to preserve life, you would have condemned Hamas actions, for it is an abomination to the Koran revered by Muslims around the world, including Arabs. But you prefer to use politically correct soft words such as 'overblown',etc, to propound further the arab propaganda.
Only by condemning them will sympathizers, funds and recruits be halted. They are destroying the religion anyway, and had used religion twisted to serve their interests.
When Hamas realizes they have no support, no more recruits and money to buy arms which should had been used to buy food for Gaza folks in the first place, they will quit armed struggle, and meet on the negotiation table without killing anyone else.
There is no dearth of humanitarian aid in the meantime for Gaza when a truce rings out, or even when peace is achieved. They are humans still who would helped out, so long as their money is NOT use to kill others.
If that is truly what they seek instead of violence and wiping out the human race, beginning with the jews and drawing everyone else into the conflict.
Wars can only be financed. No money, no talk. Hot air from the mouth will kill no one.
Do remove your blinkers if you truly want to share a common ground, which is the preservation of lives right now in Gaza!
Using your sweet words here - I too, would unconditionally apologize in the event that my statements are wrongly interpreted by one of unintellectual capacity