http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 en-US 60 <p>Red Alert's Stalin<br /> <br /> "You kill one, its a tragedy. You kill a hundred, its just..hehe..a statistics".....<br /> <br /></p> Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:13:34 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1530565 laurence82 http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Yes life in Singapore can be expensive, but it does not need to be unnecessarly expensive. How many of our gar'men extorted expenses are truly and fairly priced? If anything, they have been making a quick buck off the peasants for quite some time.<br /> <br /> If Singapore really wanted to compete, the gar'men should seriously loosen up on driving the peasants (aka. us) as if we were nothing more then machines and allow them to think for their own. Because now the only way we can compete is not to outwork the competion, but to outsmart it. And they have been slowly opening up to this apparent truth. As long as they will keep meddling and doing what they think is right for us, and preventing us from steering our own ships, their dreams of a creative force are pretty beached.<br /> <br /> As of CEO's working their way up there, it's sometimes pretty laughable. Some of them may have worked their way up there, but the truth is, this Singaporean system is run on CONNECTIONS. Get into the "top" school and get the "top" grades and you'll be the "top", and have friends in high places. But as to weather they actually having anything inbetween their heads on how to run things, that's another story altogether. Are theiR excessively high pays and lifestyles deserved? While ordinary Singaporeans labour to support their opulent status quo? I doubt it. But I'm not here to argue about the injustice, it is almost self-apparent. The problem here is not that we have no concept of equality, apparently we have the notion that some people are apparenly born MORE EQUAL.<br /> <br /> The sad thing is that, while they want us to think out of the box, they want us to do so while being in the box. This means they want a comformist way of non comformist thinking. Yes by all means be as creative as you want, but don't do anything to upset or question the status quo. In the end, this is a system that has gone bad from it's orginal aspirations... it may still work, but in the end, you realize that it is tremedously unfair to the average peasant...</p> Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:38:32 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1530521 SingaporeTyrannosaur http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>To SingaporeTyranosaur<br /> <br /> I like your idea of wat a real good government should do for singapore, but I got some questions to ask...<br /> <br /> How can Singapore attract overseas or local companies to invest in here other than Malaysia and China ?<br /> <br /> Face it, Singapore is expensive. Singapore need to live off investments from other countries to survive. How r we going to attract overseas companies over now tat every counry is doing the same thing ?<br /> <br /> The best way, is to make sure they get the best value for money compared with other region. How r we going to achieve tat ?<br /> <br /> If for the sake of the local people we made policies tat drive away foreign investment, will tat be a good policy ? Which is better ? the rich get richer while the poor r grumbling or the rich dissapear and the poor r starving ?</p> Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:33:37 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1530121 stupidissmart http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Heh... I am back...<br /> <br /> About fat cats, there r many other fat cats as well. The CEO's, own company boss and very competent engineers or insurane agents r fat cats themselves too. They have 5-7 digit salary and enjoy perks tat were out of the whim and smell of local Proletariat. Can the local Proletariat have a chance to be fat cats ? They do, if they r good. They can try to set up their own business or climb up the corporate ladder or work hard. I believe tis is a fact of life tat 20% of the richest population in the world holds 80% of the total wealth. Few country has suceeded in closing the weath gaps between the rich and poor. (frankly the only countries tat suceeded is the old USSR, North Korea and China)<br /> <br /> Wat is the difference between being a MP and being a COE ? They all have stress, they all had to make good and critical decision and they r in a general sense capable. If some members of the Elite and Party Cadres of the Ruling Party do not enter the field of politics, do u think they will fall and become a local Proleteriat like most of population in Singapore ? Not likely, they will still excel in their own chosen field and became Fat Cats too. Remember most of the politician have a hard time climbing up to such a high position. Any Tom Dick and Harry won't make it.<br /> <br /> So the question is, if u r a COE caliber person, will u work as a politician with a very average pay or will u prefer to work as a COE of some companies getting 10-100 times more pay ? In Singapore, sad to say, people r just too "meritocracy" and look at the practical things in life. If u don't pay them well, they rather emigrate or venture into private firms.</p> Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:21:29 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1530094 stupidissmart http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <blockquote> <p>Originally posted by Atobe:<br /> <strong><br /> <br /> [b]'<span style="color: red;">IGNORANCE</span> <span style= "color: green;">IS</span> <span style= "color: indigo;">BLISS</span>' ?</strong><br /> <br /> It is a choice that one still will need to take even when one decide to go - <strong>'<span style="color: violet;">Beyond the</span> <span style= "color: green;">MATRIX</span>'</strong>.<br /> <br /> <a href= "http://www.aish.com/seminars/matrix/ignorance_is_bliss.asp" rel= "nofollow">http://www.aish.com/seminars/matrix/ignorance_is_bliss.asp</a><br /> <br /> [/b]</p> </blockquote> <p>From topic: Human Organs Transplant Act<br /> The Matrix - Morpheus mentioned "liquify the dead... to feed the living"<br /> Organ Transplants in the US...<br /> <img title="Exclamation" src= "/images/emoticons/classic/icon_exclaim.gif" alt="Exclamation" /> <a href="http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1364.cfm" rel= "nofollow">http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1364.cfm</a><br /> U may also do a search on the biotechnology companies mentioned<br /> <a href="http://www.cryolife.com/indexnew5.htm" rel= "nofollow">http://www.cryolife.com/indexnew5.htm</a><br /> <a href= "http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2003/11/03/daily11.html?jst=s_cn_hl" rel= "nofollow">http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2003/11/03/daily11.html?jst=s_cn_hl</a><br /> <img title="Exclamation" src= "/images/emoticons/classic/icon_exclaim.gif" alt="Exclamation" /> contents maybe offensive to some, visit at your own risks <img title="Exclamation" src= "/images/emoticons/classic/icon_exclaim.gif" alt= "Exclamation" /><br /> <br /> Other HOTA information or forum<br /> <a href="http://app.moh.gov.sg/our/our030201.asp" rel= "nofollow">http://app.moh.gov.sg/our/our030201.asp</a><br /> <a href="http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/home/0,1869,,00.html?" rel= "nofollow">http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/home/0,1869,,00.html?</a><br /> Channel Central at 10:00pm The Anatomists: Modern Frankenstein - This last espisode of the series looks at the Body Worlds exhibiton of Gunther Von Hagan.</p> Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:16:49 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1529513 Kohi http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Hi CX,<br /> <br /> Your question - "does it take all that much insights to realise that Power is inherently conservative by definition? "<br /> <br /> In this thread started by 'Relevation' - who shouted quite loud that 'Singaporeans are Fools' - he had meant that either many 'Singaporeans are Fools' in not having the insight to realise the present situation they are in, or they are in self-denial mode ignoring their own intuition and insights to the present situation that will dicatate the future for Singapore.<br /> <br /> On your other statement that -<br /> <br /> 'the only exception i'm aware of that has ever proved the alternative is that George Washington refused a third term because he did not want to set a bad precedent.<br /> <br /> does anyone know of any other examples?'<br /> <br /> Perhaps the most recent example will be the Malaysian Prime Minister Dr Mahatir's "voluntary retirement" from the leadership position in Government and Politics.<br /> <br /> Was it an act of 'altruism' in his decision to step down, or was he subjected to internal party politics that began to rebel against his style of politics in deriding his own community ?<br /> <br /> About your statement -<br /> <br /> 'that Orwell was writing in. communism did become the dictatorship of the fat cats in the end... and u really have to be careful who u called a "fat cat" because the label doesn't always fit the context. do we have fat cats here? does the characteristics fit? i'm not really sure of either... '<br /> <br /> The 'fat cats' in the Communist ruled Russia - in which Orwell had drawn 'inspiration from in his 'Animal Farm' - clearly referred to the the Top Troika ruling Communist Russia that comprises the Party Secretary General, the President, and the Prime Minister.<br /> <br /> These 'Fat Cats' of Communist Russia will include the higher echelon of Bureaucrats, Party Elites, and the 'Annointed' from Academia and other State runned Apparatus.<br /> <br /> These 'Fat Cats' will enjoy privileges such as access to movies and books from the west, consumer goods in well stocked supermarkets and stores - all of which is beyond the sight and smell of the Proletariat.<br /> <br /> Are there no similar 'Fat Cats' in Singapore ?<br /> <br /> Will you not consider the following to be 'Fat Cats' in Singapore -<br /> <br /> the 7-figure salaried Ministers and Political Appointees running Government Linked Commercial Enterprises - (Temasek Holdings, Comfort Taxi), which are beyond what is necessary to enjoy the Standard and Cost living in Singapore.<br /> <br /> Also included in the 'Fat Cat' Class - and with perks that are on a sliding scale from 6-figures to high-5 - will be those enjoyed by the Second Ministers, Minister of States, Permanent Secretaries, and CEOs of GLC's.<br /> <br /> The Elite and Party Cadres of the Ruling Party also enjoy privileges beyond the reach of Ordinary Members of the Party. and definitely such privileges will be beyond the sight and reach of apolitical Singaporean 'Proletariat' who are only concerned with their daily needs for survival - rent, bills, next meal, job.<br /> <br /></p> Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:54:32 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1525765 Atobe http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>does it take all that much insights to realise that Power is inherently conservative by definition?<br /> <br /> once u get it, u always wanna keep it. and because u have power, u can utilise all the means available at your disposal to keep it exclusive.<br /> <br /> the only exception i'm aware of that has ever proved the alternative is that George Washington refused a third term because he did not want to set a bad precedent.<br /> <br /> does anyone know of any other examples? and given the fact that such althruism has always proven to be the exception rather than the norm, why should we expect any different from a government that is just like any other: one perpetuated by a bureaucracy, sustained by taxation and kept in power through coercion, armed or otherwise?<br /> <br /> the point about animal farm is well noted... though we really should remember the context that Orwell was writing in. communism did become the dictatorship of the fat cats in the end... and u really have to be careful who u called a "fat cat" because the label doesn't always fit the context. do we have fat cats here? does the characteristics fit? i'm not really sure of either...<br /></p> Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:39:09 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1524625 CX http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:</div> <div class="quote_body">how come no one mentioned that animal farm is supposed to be talking about communism?</div> </blockquote> <p>The book 'Animal Farm' written by George Orwell is not about Communism <span style="font-style: italic;">per se</span>, but about the momentous period of his time when there was a revolution against the Rule of the Tsar by the Proletariat led by the Communist.<br /> <br /> The character of the 'Farmer' represent the tyranny of the Tsar, the Proletariat is the 'Animals', and the 'Pigs' are supposed to be the Communist Idealists leading the Proletariat into revolution.<br /> <br /> Having achieved 'Freedom' from the tyranny of the Tsar, the Communist Idealists then subjected the Proletariat to its own brand of Tyranny.<br /> <br /> Is there some semblance of situation in Singapore ?<br /> <br /> During the early period of Singapore's history, before Internal Self-Rule and Independence through merger with Malaysia, the REMAINING FOUNDING FATHER of Singapore, had protested againt the British Colonial Rulers in their liberal and arbitrary use of powers provided by the Internal Security Act.<br /> <br /> After more then 39 years of independence, the same situation continue to exist.<br /> <br /> The Government of Free Singapore is still availing themselves the same powers to incarcerate supposedly Free Citizens WITHOUT TRIAL; and prevent the same Citizens from availing themselves the Right to Gather, to Freely Participate in the Political Process; and creating multiple rules and regulations that inhibit the Citizens' liberties.<br /> <br /> Click at the site below, for a full understanding of George Orwell and his book 'Animal Farm' -<br /> <br /> <a href="http://dewey.chs.chico.k12.ca.us/orwell.html" rel= "nofollow">http://dewey.chs.chico.k12.ca.us/orwell.html</a><br /> <br /></p> Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:34:19 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1524603 Atobe http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>how come no one mentioned that animal farm is supposed to be talking about communism?</p> Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:52:16 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1524257 SingaporeMacross http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p><span style="font-style: italic;">"Most of these people are not ready to be unplugged."</span><br /> <br /> Very, very good line.</p> Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:58:56 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1524061 lowem http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>To those who believe that 'IGNORANCE IS BLISS' - it is symptomatic of a person in crisis, and in self-denial mode.<br /> <br /> Try these sites:<br /> <br /> Ignorance is NOT Bliss: Teens in Crisis want Answers<br /> <a href="http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/yfine.html" rel= "nofollow">http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/yfine.html</a><br /> <br /> Ignorance IS Bliss for the Truly Inept<br /> <a href="http://www.rense.com/politics6/ignorancebliss_p.htm" rel= "nofollow">http://www.rense.com/politics6/ignorancebliss_p.htm</a><br /> <br /></p> Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:15:07 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1522111 Atobe http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by lowem:</div> <div class="quote_body">Ah, I like your username.<br /> <br /> <span style="font-style: italic;">"WAR IS PEACE.<br /> FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.<br /> IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."</span><br /> <br /> Indeed! <img title="Smile" src= "/images/emoticons/classic/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" /></div> </blockquote> <p><strong>'<span style="color: red;">IGNORANCE</span> <span style= "color: green;">IS</span> <span style= "color: indigo;">BLISS</span>' ?</strong><br /> <br /> It is a choice that one still will need to take even when one decide to go - <strong>'<span style="color: violet;">Beyond the</span> <span style= "color: green;">MATRIX</span>'</strong>.<br /> <br /> <a href= "http://www.aish.com/seminars/matrix/ignorance_is_bliss.asp" rel= "nofollow">http://www.aish.com/seminars/matrix/ignorance_is_bliss.asp</a><br /> <br /></p> Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:03:15 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1522060 Atobe http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>God bless us all, for we are fools.We have sold ourselves away for a few bucks…</p> Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:44:33 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1517791 LazerLordz http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by stupidissmart:</div> <div class="quote_body">Ahhh.... Animal Farm reminds me of my secondary days where we r forced to take it as literature. Since animal farm is mentioned, lets talk about animal farm ...</div> </blockquote> <p>Ah, I like your username.<br /> <br /> <span style="font-style: italic;">"WAR IS PEACE.<br /> FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.<br /> IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."</span><br /> <br /> Indeed! <img title="Smile" src= "/images/emoticons/classic/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" /></p> Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:44:36 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1517313 lowem http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Animal Farm is a great book. I studied it for literature too.<br /> <br /> However, now it is becoming clearer to me that the book that George Orwell really wanted to write was 1984.<br /> <br /> In his own words, why he wanted to write a book like 1984 :<br /> <br /> <span style="font-style: italic;">"...I write because there is some lie that I want to expose, some fact to which I want to draw attention, and my initial concern is to get a hearing. ... Of late years I have tried to write less picturesquely and more exactly. ANIMAL FARM was the first book in which I tried, with full consciousness of what I was doing, to fuse political purpose and artistic purpose into one whole. I hope to write another fairly soon ..."</span><br /> <br /> We can therefore consider 1984 to be the proper sequel to Animal Farm.</p> Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:41:57 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1517309 lowem http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Absolute power corrupts... absolutely. Once you have dehumanized the individual for the "greater good", you ultimately have become a depraved gar'men that is a self serving organization, not a people serving one.<br /> <br /> Keeping Singaporeans happy and affulent is the bare minimum big brother needs to achieve in order to stay in power, beyond that, the individual is pretty much short-changed, harrased, and fleeced to an extent that stretches the imagination on how one can remain obvilious to such abuse. While Singaporeans can live in relative comfort, it's good to note that their general level of freedom to improve or determine the fate of the country is pretty much out of their hands.<br /> <br /> Who is the gar'men working for? Or are we working for them. Improvements that would help the people and country but upset the status quo (bleed the top brass) are rapidly squashed and done away with, which iniatives that helps the CEOs of Singapore inc. to prosper are rapidly pushed into action and forced fed to the populace, many times to their expense.<br /> <br /> If they live these comfortable lives, one needs to ask if they are living these lives because they really helped Singapore, or is it because Singaporeans are so tied up by them that have no choice but to submit themselves to being milked and fleeced, and hence supporting these lifestyles. If anything, ministers taking a 10 percent pay cut as a sign of sympathy is an amazing demostation of how in touch they are with the general Singaporean condition.<br /> <br /> One can argue that the relationship between Singaporeans and their gar'men is a symbiotic one, with both parties feeding off each other, however it this relationship is hardly equal, where both parties share in the gains. In this case, this relationship greatly favours the gar'men at the expense of the people, where the people are just kept barely alive on lifesupport in order to carry on the gar'men life cycle of elite ruling class people. Akin to the face hugger in Aliens, we are strangled but kept indefinetely and barely alive by the gar'men to serve their purposes, and once that purpose is served, like the alien that bursts forth fataly from the hosts' chest, you are discarded.</p> Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:29:26 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1517196 SingaporeTyrannosaur http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Ahhh.... Animal Farm reminds me of my secondary days where we r forced to take it as literature. Since animal farm is mentioned, lets talk about animal farm<br /> <br /> In the past, there were 2 pigs politician. One called Napoleon, who turns out to be the bad politician tat used dogs as tools to control and made the animals worked too much and starving. There were another pig called snowy. He is supposed to be the ideal politician tat propose to build a windmill for electricity, warming the barns at winter and lights at night. Under him , I suppose they will be well fed and though still work a lot for their survival in buliding up the windmill (it is suppose to be an ardous task for them, but their hard work is for the common good)<br /> <br /> Wat is the difference between them ? Napoleon takes all the rewards for themselves. Snowy shares the reward with the animals. If snowy ever get into power, he probably will live in the Man house too and enjoy a slightly better lifestyle then the animals. This is much like the CEO for a company take probably take in 20-200 times more pay than the average worker. They have their ills too. Living under a stressful life gives them white hairs at a younger age, they cannot go out to public as and when they like it, their lives is scrutinised in the public.<br /> <br /> So now, Is Singapore under Snowy kind of management of Napoleon kind of management in the past ? We probably r 'well fed' and enjoy 'lightings in the night and heater in winter' though "overwork" to build the windmill. But of course there is an element of Napoleon management in it in the using of "dogs" to chase away political opponents. I guess tis is the greatest ill I find in the politics arena we r in.<br /> <br /> The animals in the book never get to be under snowy management, much like china never get to be under Sun Yat Sen management for long. (At least it is true for Yuan Shi Kai) Because too soft a politician will always get pushed off by someone tougher.<br /> <br /></p> Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:53:29 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1515038 stupidissmart http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <blockquote> <p>Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:<br /> <strong><br /> <br /> Of course PAP had done some good, they can't be all that bad. However, it is an open fact that their general level of respect for the Singaporean as an individual is deplorable. [b]<span style= "color: red;">We are treated more like lifestock then human beings</span></strong> with a right to pursue their own path in life, and that's something that's pretty obvious. That's why we are called a Nanny state. How many times had the gar'men acted towards the people like a caretaker for life rather then an elected government?[/b]</p> </blockquote> <p>In the book 'Animal Farm' written by George Orwell, the very industrious and intelligent PIGS organised a revolt of farm animals against the ill treatment of the Farmer.<br /> <br /> They manoevered the animals with catchy slogans, and galvanised the wavering spirits of the animals in a determined effort to get rid of the Farmer - 'TWO Legs bad, FOUR legs good'.<br /> <br /> Then there are the two legged birds, chickens, ducks - and intelligent excuses were made not to antagonise these part of the animal kingdom.<br /> <br /> When finally FREEDOM was achieved, with the Farmer fleeing from the Farm, the PIGS continued to lead in the Farm.<br /> <br /> With the help of a pack of Four Legged Dogs to police all the animals in the Farm, to ensure law and order, and to ensure that there is no thought of ALTERNATIVE or DEVIATIONIST THINKING.<br /> <br /> Very soon the PIGS began to walk on TWO LEGS, and left the pig sty, and moved into the Farmer's House, they began to eat the food that the Farmer had left behind, and live the life style of the Farmer.<br /> <br /> While the animals continued to live, work towards the economic well being of the Farm, the PIGS lived their lives in a world different from the Other Animals.<br /> <br /> All Animals are EQUAL, but some are MORE EQUAL than others.<br /> <br /> Some of the new born were selected from certain animals, taken away from their parents, and their grooming and education were separately taken care of away from all the other animals - to be groomed for the various functions of managing the Farm, and to ensure loyalty to the PIGS.<br /> <br /> For further development of the book, read the complete chapters in the hard or soft copies available at most book stores.<br /> <br /> George Orwell's other book titled '1984' seems also to become real, as Police Cameras are slowly and quietly becoming more pervasive throughout Singapore.<br /> <br /> These are installed on most street corners and highways, looking innocently like street lamps but with a dark glass bowl below.<br /> <br /> There are also surface radars and infra-red cameras dotting, at regular intervals, around the coast of Mainland Singapore and all the other outlying islands.<br /> <br /></p> Fri, 09 Jan 2004 11:27:51 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1513164 Atobe http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by stupidissmart:</div> <div class="quote_body">Hehehe... I totally agree with u about your points. I believe in the past, PAP is literally bashing up oppositions badly for no good reason... Whenever I see Tang Liang Hong and JBJ, I am reminded of the autrocities PAP had commit. LKY never seems to lose any law suits he started when it comes to slander... <img title="Razz" src= "/images/emoticons/classic/icon_razz.gif" alt="Razz" /> And one of the worst career move in Singapore is to be in an opposition party.<br /> <br /> In tis area, they had gone too far.<br /> <br /> However the recent discussion in this thread to me has gone a bit too far... To some it seems tat PAP has done no credit and all he had done is cheating, abusing and terrorising their citizen, and the citizens as fools who didn't rebel against them.<br /></div> </blockquote> <p>Of course PAP had done some good, they can't be all that bad. However, it is an open fact that their general level of respect for the Singaporean as an individual is deplorable. We are treated more like lifestock then human beings with a right to pursue their own path in life, and that's something that's pretty obvious. That's why we are called a Nanny state. How many times had the gar'men acted towards the people like a caretaker for life rather then an elected government?</p> Thu, 08 Jan 2004 23:41:36 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1512347 SingaporeTyrannosaur http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Hehehe... I totally agree with u about your points. I believe in the past, PAP is literally bashing up oppositions badly for no good reason... Whenever I see Tang Liang Hong and JBJ, I am reminded of the autrocities PAP had commit. LKY never seems to lose any law suits he started when it comes to slander... <img title="Razz" src= "/images/emoticons/classic/icon_razz.gif" alt="Razz" /> And one of the worst career move in Singapore is to be in an opposition party.<br /> <br /> In tis area, they had gone too far.<br /> <br /> However the recent discussion in this thread to me has gone a bit too far... To some it seems tat PAP has done no credit and all he had done is cheating, abusing and terrorising their citizen, and the citizens as fools who didn't rebel against them.<br /></p> Thu, 08 Jan 2004 20:09:01 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1512100 stupidissmart http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Looking for freedom and justice is one thing brother... getting it is another thing entirely.<br /> <br /> I've no illusions about American-style democrazy being even ever planted here, but then again, the curret system is pretty much a cop out as it is. It takes no fool to note that in many supposed areas of overbearing gar'men control for our own "good", these controls are in place to maintain the status quo and milk the Singaporean cow. So there.<br /> <br /> Is there a need to come down on any kind of opposition to their rule, be it from political or civilian quarters, with overwhelming, ham-fisted, overkill firepower that is typically their style. Is there is need to dehumanize and discredit anybody opposed to their opinion? If anything, despite their calls for us to think for ourselves (more like for the good of their wallets actually), If that poor clown CSJ really as bad as he is cranked out to be or JBJ's destruction necessary? What's up with all that?<br /> <br /> The PAP in essence imposes their brand of political thinking on the populace, they define behaviour, culture and basically what it means to be human. Anything else would be abberant apparently, as we can see from their approach, you cease to be human when you upset the status quo.<br /> <br /> Checks and balances to prevent arnachy (something you are preoccupied about) is one thing, but reining everything and taking every measure reasonable or not to make sure there is not even a glimspe of arnachy is plain ridiculus, and a condition we have been living in for many years. What good is working for the common good (a common excuse) when the common commonly suffer from these works?<br /> <br /> Are they even working for the common good?</p> Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:52:30 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1512088 SingaporeTyrannosaur http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Well...<br /> <br /> British and Japan were mentioned briefly on their political situation, however r they really good political system we should look forward to ? British do have a more powerful opposition, however they r still weak compared to the main political party. And also how does British fare recently ? After the building of the crystal palace, they seems to be declining very gradually over these 300 years... They r also known as being too conservatives in certain areas.<br /> <br /> How about Japan ? Sometimes I pity Koizumi because there r too much rivalries inside his party and outside. Within the same political parties, there r already bickering and forming up of their own clip. When u talked about argument within different political parties, they can go as far as fighting and rioting. The decisions made by koizumi r at most moderate, since there r always pop out some oppositions to bold ideas. Nobody wanna sacrifies their interest for the common good. In short, painful decisions tat will aid their country in the long run r seldom carried out in Japan. Thus Japan isn't preforming well these few years too.<br /> <br /> If u want, u can talk about French. How does their Gov fare ? Not well too. In trying to gain polls, they made many decisions tat favours the people and punish the industries. In French, they only need to work very minimal hours a week and their welfare and medical welfare r enormous. However wat does it leads them to ? Industries leaving the countries for somewhere cheaper and better. Take note tat tis is now a globalised world, one have to make decisions in reference to wat other nations r doing.<br /> <br /> And one last thing about these few countries is tat... they were already rich and powerful before the political situation now. Is Singapore rich and powerful now ?<br /> <br /> In a certain sense, LKY is wrong about filling stomach amd dulling the brains. According Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, people r initially concern with "stomach" and "shelter" first. When tat is satisfied they will aim for "security". In the end if all these r satisfied, they will start to aim for higher attaiment such as personal fulfilment, justice, freedom etc. Thus in actual fact when people r "fed" and "clothed" and having a good life, then they will seek for things such as freedom and justice, thus the brain r "sharpened" instead. Guess it is a good sign tat people r looking into this last aspect now.</p> Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:31:12 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1512071 stupidissmart http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>Dear atobe, thinkaloud2004 and all reading this postings,<br /> <br /> <strong>"It is quite amazing ........you have seem it unfit for Relevation to change his position."</strong> (by Atobe)<br /> <br /> and<br /> <br /> <strong><br /> "Obviously you have changed your tune somewhat." (from Thinkaloud2004)</strong><br /> <br /> ----------<br /> <br /> I <strong>disagree</strong> that I have changed my position. I merely seek forgiveness from those who felt hurt from my initial posting.<br /> <br /> Asking for forgiveness if I have hurt someone is different from a change of my position.<br /> <br /> I mean if the majority of the people choose to continue to be happy being a f________, its their choice. We will just have to go down with them when the reality comes true.<br /> <br /></p> Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:25:37 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1511977 relevation http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by stupidissmart:</div> <div class="quote_body">Well...<br /> Now Gov seems to have go lenient on opposition party, tat is they r not out to weed them or eliminate them with unfair lawsuits. Steve Chia has escaped been weeded out by Gov isn't it ?</div> </blockquote> <p>think you missed the part where DPM Lee has said:<br /> <br /> ""The government will not view all critics as adversaries.....<br /> BUT criticism that scores political points and undermines the government 's standing is another matter altogether. Continue to expect a strong rebuttal and <strong>those entering the arena such as the opposition, should understand the rules of the game</strong>."<br /> <br /> where is the part that says they are going to be lenient?? In the contrary they are going to be tougher on the opposition as they now make use of the FREE information, feedback and consultancy from the public but denies the oppositional parties to win executive powers to make decision in the parliament.<br /> <br /> Steve Chia's saviour is because there was no evidence. You think they are that kind if there is evidence?<br /> <br /> Lets see what they say and do in the next election to Steve Chia. Steve- you will have to be brave and smart to counter the PAP's election muscles against you.<br /> <br /></p> Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:34:26 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1511884 relevation http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666 <p>[quote]Originally posted by dead_clone:<br /> [<strong>umm guys, i was just wondering...<br /> why is it that some of you can commit yourselves to statements where do you all get facts and figures to back that up?</strong><br /> <br /> &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <span style="font-style: italic;">I think fact and figures are hard to find and NOT necessary in this case. You need not be an expert, scientist, lecturer of academic to know the truth. The fact is the PAP has been in FULL control over the last 44 years with virtually no oppositional voice in Parliament. Over the last 20 years oppositional forces have been reduced to a sorry state. Their predicament is NOT because PAP does a great job but rather because of the unfair use of the PAP majority parliamentary power to legislate the use of the GRC system to make oppositional forces weak and uncompetitive. At the same time the PAP's use of legality to limit the liberty of oppositional political parties in contrast to our constitution as laid out by the British before we went independent. How democratic and fair can our leaders be, compared to the British who has more than 300 years of democratic parlimentary system? Also the recent year's use of accounting system as well as donation rules and laws to limit the opposition, are signs of a panicked PAP and their inability to feel the sentiments of the ground. I think the PAP knows that should the opposition be funded, they be be stronger and the PAP will lose the government to them. The truth is that PAP is no longer a strong party.<br /> <br /> In short, facts and figures are the language of the PAP to limit the ability of the opposition. How do you measure if people are foolish? No prideful human will admit that they are. But the truth is painful if you look at our history that we allowed the absolute power of the PAP to take place today. In the end they legislate unfovarable policies and make our lives difficult especially the high jobless rates and the high cost of living. We complain and cry over it- some say this is life, some relent and say no choice, some shout and ask for alternatives ( when they know they are the ones who gave them up during balloting) and some say live with it.<br /> <br /> So don't you think Singaporeans (we) are so...lost or in other words so...f_______lish??? Complain and still vote for PAP.<br /></span><br /> <br /> <strong><br /> what makes you think that you are the only one in this island who has "awaken" or "discovered the ultimate truth"?<br /> <br /> i'm sure there're many others who had seen it coming much earlier than you all have but most have come to realise that this is a "suck thumb" kinda thing so they don't bother to voice out like you all have and that doesn't mean they are all for the government.</strong><br /> <br /> <span style="font-style: italic;">Well, being quiet is one thing, being f'___'d is another. Let me tell you why PAP won 70+% in the last election. It is because of the ERS, fear of the ballot because the election tickets has numbers and serial numbers, upgrading of the flats. In Japan and in Malaysia, the press would have called this "vote buying".<br /> <br /> Well those people who gave PAP unchallenged majority in the 1960s, 70s and 80s may be forgiven because they were less educate then and were probably easier to Be f_______d. But even today we are so much more educated, surely we are not so f_____lish isn't it?<br /> <br /></span><br /> <strong><br /> as far as i can comprehend what thinkloud2004 was trying to say, he agrees with all the "bad stuff" you all have dug up about the government but is that all you can do? posting "noble thoughts" endlessly in hope that someone will take notice &amp; do something for you? where's all the action despite the violent reactions</strong><br /> <br /> <span style="font-style: italic;"><br /> Well I guess it is to educate, to be more informed, to be have all these thrown to the open so that we will not be so f_______lish and so blind to what we see, hear, listen and say. We would not be so easily indoctrinated and would not be so easily swayed by the PAP.</span></p> Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:15:07 +0800 politics.sgforums.com:10:65666:1511822 relevation http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/65666