July 17, 2006 22:30 PM

M'sia To Build Two Frigates, Buy Eight Aermacchi Aircraft

From Ahmad Fuad Yahya

LONDON, July 17 (Bernama) -- Malaysia plans to build two frigates and purchase eight Aermacchi fighter trainer aircraft to boost efforts to enhance the country's defence capabilities.

Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said these would be part of discussions with several companies in the defence industry for programmes to be realised under the Ninth Malaysia Plan (9MP).

He said Malaysia had issued a letter of intent to build the two frigates with BAE Systems and that negotiations were in progress.

When the two new frigates are built, the Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) will have four in its arsenal. The RMN now has two -- the KD Lekiu and KD Jebat.

"Though the specifications are almost the same in terms of their sizes, the defence systems will need to meet our latest requirements," he told Malaysian journalists when visiting the Farnborough International Air Show (FIAS) in Hampshire, outside London, Monday.

Earlier, he met British Minister for Defence Procurement Lord Paul Drayson and Britain's Head of Defence Export Services Organisation, Alan Garwood.

Najib, who is also Malaysian Defence Minister, said the government planned to use Sabah Shipyard in Labuan to build the frigates so that it would create job opportunities for Malaysians there.

The cost had yet to be determined because negotiations had not been completed but the government expected the programme to build the frigates to last about four to five years, he said.

"We are not looking at it solely in terms of the cost. We also want to see the impact the programme will have on the Malaysian economy as the vessels will be built in Malaysia," he said.

On the plan to purchase the fighter trainers, Najib said Malaysia planned to buy eight Aermacchi aircraft to add to 10 similar aircraft being used by the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) for training purposes.

The purchase was in line with the country's training requirements to produce highly capable RMAF pilots, especially in handling the sophisticated Russian-made Sukhoi fighters that the force was to receive soon, he said.

On the meeting with Drayson, Najib said the British minister explained to him about the Private Financing Initiatives (PFIs) implemented in the United Kingdom.

He said he was told that PFIs there were not limited to construction and maintenance of buildings but also involved training and certain services including search and rescue missions.

Najib, who arrived here yesterday for a week-long visit, is attending the FIAS to scout for the latest defence technologies that may be needed by the country in the future.

He is expected to meet British Defence Secretary Desmond Brown Monday night.

-- BERNAMA

In terms of airforce planes we have a distinct numerical and technological advantage. But as for naval surface fleet, we are losing on the numerical aspect. Of course we can compensate by having better technology such as more missile launchers on our surface ships.

Originally posted by tankee1981:

In terms of airforce planes we have a distinct numerical and technological advantage. But as for naval surface fleet, we are losing on the numerical aspect. Of course we can compensate by having better technology such as more missile launchers on our surface ships.

it will be years if not a decade from now... if their plan ever get funded.... until then... its nothing more then hot air...

but you can be damn sure the malaysians will whip up a storm of how powerful their new phantom ship is gonna be... and it will keep them talking for years...

9MP

sounds good

Originally posted by tripwire:

but you can be damn sure the malaysians will whip up a storm of how powerful their new phantom ship is gonna be... and it will keep them talking for years...

agree not only that. Malaysian forums will be infested with nationalistic people saying how great their navy is.

Originally posted by ah_kwang:

agree not only that. Malaysian forums will be infested with nationalistic people saying how great their navy is.

Let them brag. I personally will be laughing at the irony that more than half of those arm chair generals have not spent a single day as a real soldier & have never even fired a BB gun let alone an M16 or Steyr, but talk as if they're some military strategist.

How u know which country has good strategist?

The very low opinion of the MAF is very pervasive here in SG.

Whether true or not, this is unhealthy and leads to us underestimating the MAF to a ridiculous degree - eg "their generals never even fired a weapon".

MAF has yet to be shown to perform badly in combat. So don't write them off yet.

...overconfidence is a bad thing.

Originally posted by moca:

The very low opinion of the MAF is very pervasive here in SG.

Whether true or not, this is unhealthy and leads to us underestimating the MAF to a ridiculous degree - eg "their generals never even fired a weapon".

The thing we have to understand is that the Malaysians have a very vocal press. And this press LOVE to report bad things about the MAF - and surprisingly without any censorship. And these news are hungrily snapped up by Singaporeans to help reinforce our low opinion of them.

On the other hand, we have a tightly-controlled press, which report ONLY the good things about SAF. This leads to us having a very high image of the SAF - which is good.

But...

...don't let that get to your head. Those of us who remember our own service time will often find it hard to match our own experience of the SAF with the "super duper" one propagated by the press releases.

MAF has yet to be shown to perform badly in combat. So don't write them off yet.

On the other hand, SAF has yet to be in any combat.

I'm as patriotic as any of you here. If SG is threatened I will volunteer even though I have just finished my all my NS obligations. I just believe that overconfidence is a bad thing and leads to silly mistakes.

I agree. When we did an exchange program with the MAF, I can see how well trained their army is. Ours is nothing compare to them. But thats my view though.

Originally posted by ah_kwang:

agree not only that. Malaysian forums will be infested with nationalistic people saying how great their navy is.

Their navy great !!! Super great !!!

Only one around that can afford to pay in pounds !!!

If they can afford to pay to let people say they are great, they are indeed great spenders who waste money.

I have an entirely different view of the MAF. The ones I have met are disillusioned and disappointed with the current state of military capability. They are as equally worried about the Thais numerical advantage as they are of Singapore`s technological lead.

News about the new Lekiu frigates(so-called Block 2 Lekiu) have circulated years ago. Mentioned no less by thier chief of navy in the critically acclaimed Asian Defence Journal An artist impression showed a leaner and sleeker ship but not stealthy. They have`nt been made yet though. They are busy with the Mekos.

Im not sure what kind of weaponry they are going to fit onto the new frigates(which has the same kind of dimension as the current ones); which are more like large corvettes with a heli-pad to me. Aster 30s are impossible to fit in. Aster 15s are slightly shorter so it`s highly unlikely too. There does`nt seem to be enough space. Also, I doubt they will buy anything we buy in missiles as the current trend might suggest. ESSMs and standards are out of the question too. They are going to have problems getting them from the US and paying; not to mention integrating them too.

Im thinking it will be seawolfs again or Sea-Rams(if they ever go around negotiating and buying them from the US) plus Exocet Block 3s. That would give Singapore a valid excuse to get something better though.

If the purchase goes through(if ever!!!), it would not mean an increase in inventory. They`re are replacing old ones which they ought to have retired years ago. Our ships(minus subs..) are relatively very very young compared to thiers.

Why don`t they finish the Meko project first before going around to build new frigates and in East Malaysia to boot ? It`s just messy. Also, I understand they have financial constraints but if you`re getting just two more frigates, get something which outclasses the Formidables to even out the odds a bit. It`s baffling just digesting the kind of decisions that are made up north.

They certainly have a large number of trainers vis-a-vis fighter planes.

Anyone counting the days to the actual decision to buy the frigates and build them in reality?

Originally posted by mhcampboy:

I agree. When we did an exchange program with the MAF, I can see how well trained their army is. Ours is nothing compare to them. But thats my view though.

At the end of the day, the MAF is a professional force. The SAF (esp the Army) is a conscript army.

in the 1982 falklands, a smaller professional British Army defeated a larger conscript Argentine Army.

in the event of a confrontation, I think the SAF is at a disadvantage man for man. that is why we invest so much in hi-tech weaponary and C3I.

Originally posted by mhcampboy:

I agree. When we did an exchange program with the MAF, I can see how well trained their army is. Ours is nothing compare to them. But thats my view though.

what kinda exchange program?

i know that for bilateral exercise.. they got "designated" units that are specially trainned for "show off" one...

even the americans knew that... the malaysian units that trained with them are not representatives of MAF actual average combat capabilities across MAF.

Originally posted by mhcampboy
I agree. When we did an exchange program with the MAF, I can see how well trained their army is. Ours is nothing compare to them. But thats my view though.

Mind sharing with us your personal experience with the Malaysian troops?

Originally posted by spencer99:

At the end of the day, the MAF is a professional force. The SAF (esp the Army) is a conscript army.

in the 1982 falklands, a smaller professional British Army defeated a larger conscript Argentine Army.

in the event of a confrontation, I think the SAF is at a disadvantage man for man. that is why we invest so much in hi-tech weaponary and C3I.

war isnt just a simple comparison between conscripts and regulars... there are huge amount of other factors that influence the outcome of any battle...

i doubt the argentinian even have a shred chance of winning even if they place regulars on the island... when the brits control the air and the sea surrounding the falklands islands.

if anything can be surmised from the falkland war.. its that size dont matter..distance is not an impassable obstacle.

technology, national economic strength and leadership is what won the day...

Originally posted by tankee1981:

Mind sharing with us your personal experience with the Malaysian troops?

Hmmm .. when they chiong sua up the hill, they reached the top first. not bad for some 30 year olds eh...

Originally posted by mhcampboy:

Hmmm .. when they chiong sua up the hill, they reached the top first. not bad for some 30 year olds eh...

its that all?

i hope you got more then that to offer us.... chiong sua....

can they chion sua faster then our bullet or not?

what is the purpose of chiong sua? olympic event?

put tripwire (not me ok) across the sua... you see what happen...

Originally posted by tripwire:

what kinda exchange program?

i know that for bilateral exercise.. they got "designated" units that are specially trainned for "show off" one...

even the americans knew that... the malaysian units that trained with them are not representatives of MAF actual average combat capabilities across MAF.

Well, half of my units guys went over to malaysia and half of their certain regiment came over to singapore. dun ask me to name their unit cos i forgot.

Just wondering... u guys talk about nationalist idealists talking about how great thier navy is.. isnt SG the same ? lol! Isnt every country the same ? I am sure plp in Indonesia Navy Forum things thier Navy is the best!

If i recal , i dun think u guys ever talked about the war games last year between Malaysia n Singapore ? And if i am not wrong.. the international countries involved in the excersice and a magazine source quoted how the war games ended. and how it went between the respected countries.

Originally posted by mhcampboy:

Well, half of my units guys went over to malaysia and half of their certain regiment came over to singapore. dun ask me to name their unit cos i forgot.

if i am not wrong.. its their usual unit under the MAF 4th brigade...

when my unit send one company north to exercise.. they came back with reports i cannot believe...

Originally posted by mhcampboy:

Hmmm .. when they chiong sua up the hill, they reached the top first. not bad for some 30 year olds eh...

Of course they are better cos they got more suas to chiong in Malaysia, Singapore got not much suas, only a few...

Originally posted by tripwire:

its that all?

i hope you got more then that to offer us.... chiong sua....

can they chion sua faster then our bullet or not?

what is the purpose of chiong sua? olympic event?

put tripwire (not me ok) across the sua... you see what happen...

Oh. you want me to list out their capabilities izzit? lets just say, even my general when he debrief us told us how malu he felt when he saw the MAF flanked the enemy. think it shld suffice bah.

anyway, your statement ching sua faster than a bullet and olympic event is not justifiable.

anyway, im not debating which country forces is the best. im just higlighting my views.

Originally posted by BadzMaro:

Just wondering... u guys talk about nationalist idealists talking about how great thier navy is.. isnt SG the same ? lol! Isnt every country the same ? I am sure plp in Indonesia Navy Forum things thier Navy is the best!

If i recal , i dun think u guys ever talked about the war games last year between Malaysia n Singapore ? And if i am not wrong.. the international countries involved in the excersice and a magazine source quoted how the war games ended. and how it went between the respected countries.

indonesia navy forum... thinks our formidables are too powerful for our country and most indonesians are busy scratching their hairs off on how to take out the formidables....

so... there are honest people... in other forums...

as for singapore... lets be frank... our navy got the least of the budget.. least attentions among the 3 services...

before the arrival of the formidables and submarines... lets face it... our navy are little better then coast guards.

Originally posted by mhcampboy:

Oh. you want me to list out their capabilities izzit? lets just say, even my general when he debrief us told us how malu he felt when he saw the MAF flanked the enemy. think it shld suffice bah.

anyway, your statement ching sua faster than a bullet and olympic event is not justifiable.

anyway, im not debating which country forces is the best. im just higlighting my views.

during my time... my general laugh all the way back to singapore... maybe your general needs to go back to BMT....

Originally posted by dork3d:

Of course they are better cos they got more suas to chiong in Malaysia, Singapore got not much suas, only a few...

lol.. maybe in SG they chiong highways and stairways up 20 storey buildings ... he he