Death of innocent ppl just increasing , all in the name of so called” save private X or corporal Y” etc, etc.

Israeli strike 'kills four UN observers' as Rice leaves

Four UN observers were killed Tuesday when an Israeli aerial bomb struck their base in southern Lebanon. There are unconfirmed reports a Canadian is among the dead.
A bomb directly hit the building of the observer force in the town of Khiyam near the eastern end of the border with Israel, said Milos Struger, spokesman for the UN peacekeeping force in Lebanon known as UNIFIL.
Struger said UNIFIL had dispatched a rescue team which was trying to clear the rubble when it came under more fire from Israeli forces.
A senior Lebanese military official said the dead included observers from Canada, Austria, China and Finland.
However, the Department of National Defence has not confirmed the report. The federal government would only say there's been a significant incident involving a Canadian UN observer.
One Canadian soldier, with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, is currently serving with the UN at the base in Khiyam as part of a mission called Operation Jade.
Annan reacts strongly
"I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces of a UN Observer post in southern Lebanon that has killed two UN military observers, with two more feared dead," said UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, after rushing out of a meeting with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora.

"This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long established and clearly marked UN post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that UN positions would be spared Israeli fire."
But, Israel's ambassador to the UN denied his country would deliberately target a UN post.
"I am shocked and deeply distressed by the hasty statement of the secretary-general, insinuating that Israel has deliberately targeted the U.N. post," said Dan Gillerman.
Gillerman said Israel would investigate: "We do not have yet information what caused this death: it could be the IDF (Israel's military), it could be Hezbollah."
Charles Kupchan, a senior fellow with the Council on Foreign Relations, said he was surprised by Annan's comments.
"Israelis have generally gone out of their way to avoid civilian targets," he told CTV Newsnet. "So why Annan would come out with a statement like that is, I think, quite surprising."
Kupchan said it was too early to speculate on how or why the post was bombed, but said that in some cases UN and Hezbollah camps are right next door to each other.
But, Sunil Ram, a defence and security analyst, told CTV Newsnet that the Israelis had shelled the base at least 14 times before bombing it with what was clearly a guided bomb.
Iran warns of broader battles
DUSHANBE, Tajikistan -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad warned Tuesday that the conflict between Lebanon and Israel could trigger "a hurricane" of broader fighting in the Middle East.

Ahmadinejad's country is a major backer of the Hezbollah militant group and a sworn enemy of Israel. In his comments, he referred to a proverb that says: "He who raises the wind will get a hurricane."

"That proverb fully relates to the Middle East, which is a very volatile region," he said. "And it will be a strong hurricane which will strike really hard."
--Associated Press
"UN posts like this are very well marked. The Israelis knew it was there; it's been there for years.
"But then when the Indians tried to send a rescue mission in there, they then shelled the troops who were trying to get to the post. So how much more deliberate do you want it to be?"
On Monday, vans marked with Red Crosses had come under fire.
Beirut struck again
Tuesday's bombing came as Israeli forces pushed deeper into southern Lebanon, part of a campaign to stop Hezbollah missiles.
Israel also pounded Beirut with new air strikes, marking the first attacks in Lebanon's capital in almost two days.
At least four large blasts were heard as a heavy gray cloud was seen billowing from the southern district -- a Hezbollah stronghold that has been heavily bombarded.
Al-Jazeera TV reported 20 Israeli rockets hit the Dahiyah neighborhood as a succession of blasts set off car alarms in central Beirut and sirens were heard.
In return, Hezbollah rained rockets down on the northern Israeli city of Haifa, injuring at least five people.
Hezbollah's leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, issued a taped television message saying guerrillas would now start firing rockets deeper into Israel, beyond the northern port city of Haifa

so, what are you trying to say?

any military knows, the moment you leave your own behind, is the moment you lose the rest of your troops...

Originally posted by the Bear:

so, what are you trying to say?

any military knows, the moment you leave your own behind, is the moment you lose the rest of your troops...

Then tell us what’s ur points precisely? U try to enlighten us in order to do what you have said in ur post then everything is expendable including innocent lives, so many in hundreds to 1 or 2?

Or should ur doctrin applicable to every military in the world, if you try to be “ neutral” in a sense?

Actually I find it's strange the guys who started it all think that Israel would react in any other way, and stranger still that they could have done a lot to stop it all from happening, but did nothing to do so.

Apparently they think nothing of trading their own people's blood to make their point. And I believe given the chance they would do the very same thing to Israel without a pause. Now it's just a question of who has the bigger guns.

The issue is not as simple as you think, it's the innocents that are suffering to make a point on both sides. One side to show that they will not be bowed by such attacks across their border, and the other side who don't care a whilt about friendly noncombatants by hiding their munitions (to kill other noncombatants with) within their very houses.

Nobody is clear of blood in this bloody game of tit-for-tat.

Yes yes, forget nowadays mention of moral ground sounds really stupid. It’s all depend on who got bigger mouth( Media) and who got the bigger gun( military). That’s why we can see shooting an empty rocket into sea could be more evil than the on-slaughter of hundreds of lives. That’s why we can some are more easily outraged by the empty rocket than hundreds of lives. The believers of the “big gun” theory apparently gaining ground not only in the forums but also by politicians, Using the “big gun “ theory, we could see why ppl develop long range missile and why ppl develop nukes, they know not only themselves but their opponents all the same believers. Nobody is clear of blood in this bloody game of tit-for-tat but nobody is clean of it as well. U can slaughter them more this day Or the other day when the history wheel turns without mercy, the same spell cursed back on you?

Originally posted by coolant:

Yes yes, forget nowadays mention of moral ground sounds really stupid. It’s all depend on who got bigger mouth( Media) and who got the bigger gun( military). That’s why we can see shooting an empty rocket into sea could be more evil than the on-slaughter of hundreds of lives. That’s why we can some are more easily outraged by the empty rocket than hundreds of lives. The believers of the “big gun” theory apparently gaining ground not only in the forums but also by politicians, Using the “big gun “ theory, we could see why ppl develop long range missile and why ppl develop nukes, they know not only themselves but their opponents all the same believers. Nobody is clear of blood in this bloody game of tit-for-tat but nobody is clean of it as well. U can slaughter them more this day Or the other day when the history wheel turns without mercy, the same spell cursed back on you?

its a harsh world... just dont be naive...

being soft.. is to invite death.

however... isreal should apologies and make reparation to the UN soldiers...

But isreal should NOT stop until its soldiers are returned...

I have a feeling those two soldiers might be dead by now, and right now I also feel things have gone beyond just being about them. Even if they are returned things will not go back to the way it was. Which is not surprising given that this incident was only the trigger, and not really the cause of this current conflict.

Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:

I have a feeling those two soldiers might be dead by now, and right now I also feel things have gone beyond just being about them. Even if they are returned things will not go back to the way it was. Which is not surprising given that this incident was only the trigger, and not really the cause of this current conflict.

I don't scratch people's balls a lot in the forums, but that last sentence is one of the more insightful ones I've seen ....

yes, you're absolutely right there ...

Originally posted by tripwire:
[b]

its a harsh world... just dont be naive...

being soft.. is to invite death.

1st, some clarifications, by intentionally bombing and killing the UN peacekeepers, they already committed murder in light of they want to pursue their role as marshal to bring kidnappers to “justice”. At least to me , murderers carries more sin than kidnappers.

Then welcome back to the harsh world, it’s ice age, when justice only lies in more deadly jaws and more powerful muscles.

however... isreal should apologies and make reparation to the UN soldiers...

Apologies should be made by Israel as the capacity of the nation while the worth of lives certainly are not an apologies away though these days we are used to the abuses as we can see from Guantanamo to Iraq and now Lebanon. Anyway, who got big jaw got the talk and like father , like son.

But isreal should NOT stop until its soldiers are returned...

But certainly without moral ground, they are no different from the Militia they are fighting for. the plot of "Save the life of Corporal X or Private Y" is over, and animal show is now on...

God blessing, if u believe God previals....

Originally posted by coolant:

But certainly without moral ground, they are no different from the Militia they are fighting for. the plot of "Save the life of Corporal X or Private Y" is over, and animal show is now on...

God blessing, if u believe God previals....

So what's exactly is it immoral about this incident? Don't the isreal have the rights to protect themselves?

How come no body says anything when the russian mafia leader Putins order his elite to deal with those who kill his russian in iraq?

How come no one dare to says anything when USA destroy an entire regime in afaganistan after 911?

Isreal just do exactly what anyone else would do to protect himself and destroy his thread. Do you know how many people are killed by terrorist each year? Innocent civilians in Isreal targeted by suicide bombers. I agree with most people here. The terriorist should just stop being an arse stop showering fire on Isreal civilians and release of the soldier. Or they simply deserve this! If I am the government I do exactly the same time. That's why military is for. the interest of the people.

But on second tot if Singapore were to face the same thing. Showered with fire from neighbours and capturing our people. Do you not think we will not react too?

Finally if you still don't know how this world work out I tell you. Morality is spoken only in times of peace and bordom. In every nation's top number priorities is SURVIVAL. Do you think Singapore is peaceful and wasn't being bullied because our neighbour is moral!? NO, we are the way we are because we have bigger guns!

Originally posted by coolant:

1st, some clarifications, by intentionally bombing and killing the UN peacekeepers, they already committed murder in light of they want to pursue their role as marshal to bring kidnappers to “justice”. At least to me , murderers carries more sin than kidnappers.

I think you have mistaken, it wasn't intentional to bomb and kill the UN peacekeepers, it was an accident and their PM have already apologize for it. Do keep your post on facts.

Mistaken? Then the UN chief must mistaken as well, look up his no uncertain words in my 1st post where he list his proofs as well. And as our common knowledge, no accused going to admit what is accused.

oh yes. Of course. I see the logic of the people here. Yes. What better way to turn the death or capture of one soldier from a tragedy to a much more acceptable and less emotional statistic by increasing the number of the dead on both sides? Yes of course. How clear it is. I love the way people here think. Once enough people die, one soldier becomes a statistic and it wun matter as much anymore.

Funny I used to remember people saying 2 wrongs don't make 1 right. Now it seems the world subscribes to a thousand wrongs make 1 right. I'm so happy that our future looks soooo bright.

Like i said … this is hell.. we aint on earth anymore ~

Things are getting hot now.

China demands apology from Israel over attack that killed Chinese U.N. observer

By ALEXA OLESEN
Associated Press Writer

BEIJING (AP) -- China has demanded that Israel apologize for an attack in Lebanon that killed a Chinese U.N. observer as President Hu Jintao offered his condolences to the victim's family.

Hu "relayed his deep condolences and expressed his sympathy and solicitude for the victim's family," the Chinese Foreign Ministry said in a brief statement posted on its Web site on Wednesday.

He also expressed concern about the safety of other Chinese nationals in Lebanon, the statement said.

An Israeli bomb destroyed a U.N. observer post with four staff inside on Lebanon's southern border on Tuesday. China's official Xinhua News Agency identified the Chinese fatality as Du Zhaoyu, a member of a U.N. peacekeeping mission.

"We are deeply shocked by this incident and strongly condemn it," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said in a statement on the ministry Web site.

The three other observers in the post were from Austria, Canada and Finland. Two of them had been confirmed dead and another was feared dead, U.N. military officials said, without giving specifics.

Du was part of a group of 182 Chinese military peacekeepers sent to Lebanon in February and April, Xinhua said. The deployment marked the first time China had sent peacekeepers to the Middle East, state media reported earlier this year.

"I'm very sad," said Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing, in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where he was attending a regional conference.

"We should try harder to call on the parties to be restrained and to be calm and restore the peace process of the Middle East immediately," Li said.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry statement said Israel's ambassador to Beijing was summoned Wednesday morning and asked to convey Beijing's request that Israel fully investigate the incident and issue an apology to China and the victims' families.

The statement also called on Israel to ensure the safety of U.N. peacekeepers in Lebanon.

Nadav Eshcar, the political and press officer with the Israeli Embassy in Beijing, said that during the meeting, Ambassador Yehoyada Haim "expressed profound regret" for the deaths and assured Chinese officials that the incident was being investigated.

"Israel does not target U.N. personnel," Eshcar said. "In this kind of situation many things can happen, some very unfortunate."

Du's mission was tasked with land mine clearing, the construction of roads, buildings, parking lots and defense facilities and providing humanitarian assistance, the official People's Liberation Army Daily newspaper said in April.

It was not the first time a Chinese military peacekeeper had died while on duty.

Zhang Li, deputy director of the Peacekeeping Affairs Office of the Defense Ministry, was quoted by the PLA Daily last year as saying that six Chinese servicemen had lost their lives in U.N. peacekeeping operations since 1990.

More than 4,000 peacekeeping troops, military observers and engineering personnel have taken part in 14 U.N. peacekeeping activities between 1990 and 2005, Zhang was quoted as saying.

The UN deaths have provoked an international outcry

Israel troops 'ignored' UN plea

UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.
The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling, diplomats familiar with the probe say.

UN-led crisis talks in Rome ended with no agreement to urge an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah.

Eight Israeli soldiers have died in ongoing clashes - the biggest loss in one incident since the conflict began.

Twenty-two soldiers were injured as Israeli troops tried to gain control of the town of Bint Jbeil, a strategically located Hezbollah stronghold.

An Israeli officer died in a separate clash later.

And a massive explosion destroyed a several-storey building in the centre of Tyre housing the offices of a top Hezbollah commander.

He was not there at the time.

A senior Israel army general said he expected the fighting would continue for "several more weeks".

More than 400 Lebanese and 42 Israelis have died in two weeks of conflict, which began after Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid on 12 July.

In other developments:

Hezbollah fired more than 100 rockets into Israel, injuring 31 people, security and medical sources say

A Jordanian military plane arrived in Beirut to evacuate some of the most seriously wounded Lebanese civilians

Ten lorries loaded with food and medical supplies arrived in the southern town of Tyre from the capital, Beirut

Hezbollah's leader Hassan Nasrallah warned on TV that his organisation would begin firing rockets further south into Israel than Haifa

More than 300 people - mainly US and Australian citizens - who had been caught in the fighting in southern Lebanon are due to leave from Tyre on a Canadian ferry on Wednesday evening
Israeli regrets

The four unarmed UN observers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland, died after their UN post in the town of Khiam was hit by an Israeli air strike on Tuesday.

A senior Irish soldier working for the UN forces had warned the Israelis six times that their bombardment was endangering the lives of UN staff, Ireland's foreign ministry said.

Had Israel responded to the requests, "rather than deliberately ignoring them", the observers would still be alive, a diplomat familiar with the report said.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has expressed "deep regrets" over the deaths.

Israel is conducting an investigation into the incident.

It has rejected accusations made by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan that the targeting of the UN position was "apparently deliberate".

White House spokesman Tony Snow said "something went really wrong" to cause the deaths, but also said there was no reason to suggest the bombing was deliberate.

The UN Security Council is meeting to discuss the incident.

'Utmost urgency'

The Rome summit, called by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, brought together EU and Arab nations plus the US and Russia, but not Israel, Iran or Syria.

The conference released a declaration expressing "determination to work immediately to reach with utmost urgency a ceasefire to put an end to the current hostilities".

It also said a ceasefire "must be lasting, permanent and sustainable".

The statement called for an international force with a UN mandate for south Lebanon, and the full implementation of existing UN Security Council resolutions calling for the disarming of militias and deployment of Lebanese troops in the border region.

Mr Annan said it was important to work with the countries of the region, including Syria and Iran, to find a solution to the crisis.

But Condoleezza Rice was critical of the role of both countries.

"It's not a question of talking to Syria, it's whether Syria's prepared to act," she said.

In an impassioned speech, Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora warned that more people would die if the ceasefire was delayed, and called for a Lebanese-Israeli prisoner exchange as part of plan to end the fighting

Israel US ambassador Ayalon: Annan has to apologize

Israel's Ambassador to Washington Danny Ayalon said Wednesday that UN Secretary General Kofi Annan should apologize to Israel for saying that dropping a bomb on a UN post in south Lebanon was a deliberate act.

Speaking to CNN Ayalon said Annan's comments are "scandalous," and demanded he apologize. (Yitzhak Benhorin, Washington)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3281463,00.html

What nerve...

BTW, I just saw the news, Anan has retracted his comments and now saying "It was an accident".. makes one wonder. Glad he's about to end his term.

For goodness sake.. that UN post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling.. The post has been there since 1970s.

U.N.: Observers made many calls before strike

BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- The U.N. observers killed when an Israeli bomb hit their bunker in Lebanon Tuesday called an Israeli military liaison about 10 times in the six hours before they died to warn that aerial attacks were getting close to their position, a U.N. officer said.

After each call, the Israeli officer promised to have the bombing stopped, an officer at the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) base in Noqoura said.

Finally, an Israeli bomb exploded directly on the U.N. post near Khiyam, killing four U.N. observers from Austria, Finland, Canada and China, the U.N. officer said.

As of Wednesday morning, three of the four bodies had been recovered from the rubble, an officer at the UNIFIL base in Noqoura said.

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said the incident would be "thoroughly investigated" and that the Israeli military had taken measures since the start of its bombardment of southern Lebanon to protect the U.N. observers there.

"Israel would never deliberately target U.N. personnel," Mark Regev said.

According to Regev, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called U.N.Secretary-General Kofi Annan and "expressed his regret at this tragedy in Lebanon."

Annan issued a sharply worded statement Tuesday evening which said he was "shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting ... of a U.N. observer post in southern Lebanon." He called on Israel to conduct "a full investigation into this very disturbing incident."

"This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long established and clearly marked U.N. post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that U.N. positions would be spared Israeli fire," Annan said.

"Furthermore, General Alain Pelligrini, the U.N. force commander in south Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular U.N. position from attack."

The timeline provided CNN by a U.N. officer in Lebanon showed the first bomb exploded about 200 yards from the U.N. outpost at 1:20 p.m. Tuesday, prompting the first call by the UNIFIL observers to their designated contact with the Israeli military. The officer said they were assured by the Israeli liaison that he would stop the attacks.

A series of about nine more bombs hit within 100 to 400 yards from the observers over the next several hours, with a call to the Israeli military following each explosion.

The U.N. base at Noqoura lost contact with the outpost at 7:40 p.m., apparently the time of the direct hit, the officer said.

China issued a strong condemnation of the Israeli airstrike, according to a statement posted on the Chinese Foreign Ministry Web site Wednesday.

"China urges the concerned sides, especially Israel, to take tangible measures to ensure the security of UN peacekeepers," said Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao.

China's state-run news agency -- Xinhau -- said Chinese Assistant Foreign Minister Zhai Jun called in Israeli Ambassador Yehoyada Haim Wednesday morning to discuss the attack.

"China strongly condemns the activity to raid the UN peacekeeping post and urge Israel to carry out thorough investigation and apologize to China and the victim's families and coordinate with China to deal with the aftermath," Xinhau quoted Zhao as telling the Israeli ambassador.

Xinhua said the Chinese observer killed was Du Zhaoyu.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/26/mideast.observers/

Anan is turning into an puppet... to think that he would say that it was an accident today ..

The post was hit by an air dropped PGM !!! After Cried 10 time in six hours to the Israel to stop the shelling.. Doesn't need a high IQ score to conclude whether it was delibrate or ont.. really.

Originally posted by MobyDog:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3281463,00.html

What nerve...

BTW, I just saw the news, Anan has retracted his comments and now saying "It was an accident".. makes one wonder. Glad he's about to end his term.

For goodness sake.. that UN post was hit by [b]a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling.. The post has been there since 1970s.

[/b]

i am sure when americans ends up killing their own guys in the confusion of war... it was "intentional"?

what does isreal have to gain by killing UN observers?

saving the lives of your fellow man is important to the civilised man... unlike the other side...

yes.. the two isreali soldiers are the trigger... the real intention is to stop the hizbollah.

Originally posted by tripwire:

i am sure when americans ends up killing their own guys in the confusion of war... it was "intentional"?

what does isreal have to gain by killing UN observers?

how the hell i know.. just like why the IDF are bombing airports, bridges, factories, farms, ambulances, whole apartment blocks etc etc.. it goes on.

saving the lives of your fellow man is important to the civilised man... unlike the other side...

just like Hez are using these two to free their countrymen in Israel prison(without trial)... geee

yes.. the two isreali soldiers are the trigger... the real intention is to stop the hizbollah.

Originally posted by tripwire:

i am sure when americans ends up killing their own guys in the confusion of war... it was "intentional"?

Negative, obviously, no US “ blue on blue” fire has lasted 6 hrs long and 10 times of calls in between.

what does isreal have to gain by killing UN observers?

The reason is as simple as the jewish want to boot out the UN force in their eyesight so they can have a free hand, again,obviously.

yes.. the two isreali soldiers are the trigger... the real intention is to stop the hizbollah.

Agreed....

Originally posted by 38Ž:

Negative, obviously, no US “ blue on blue” fire has lasted 6 hrs long and 10 times of calls in between.

and who exactly did they call? pizza hut?

and who can verify it is the UN on the other side of the line?

if forces with direct access to their chain of command can ends up fried by friendly fire... i sincerely doubt a phone from a UN outpost would do any better.

i am more interested to know....

why the UN forces did not evacuate their outpost, after being bombarded for 6 hour? (pride of service? dont make me laugh... )

and what was the UN high command doing during that 6hour? (waiting for pizza delivery?)

wont any donkey brain starts ordering an evac when they realise that their plea is not getting through... and there is a high chance of UN casualty at their outpost?

Originally posted by 38Ž:

The reason is as simple as the jewish want to boot out the UN force in their eyesight so they can have a free hand, again,obviously.

right... is that the same UN forces who cant do anything about hizbollah shooting rockets into isreal everyday?

if so.... i sincerely doubt their presence would hinder isreali military action, unless the UN decided to grant refuge to hisbollah troops inside their compound.

Originally posted by MobyDog:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3281463,00.html

What nerve...

BTW, I just saw the news, Anan has retracted his comments and now saying "It was an accident".. makes one wonder. Glad he's about to end his term.

For goodness sake.. that UN post was hit by [b]a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling.. The post has been there since 1970s.

[/b]

so what if that outpost has been there since 1970? so what if the weapon use was a LGB or watever precision weapon....??

its called a MISTAKE....

if you cant understand what mistake means... flip out your dictionary....

isrealis aint GOD for god sake...

a man can drive for 50 years and still ends up with an stupid accident....

Originally posted by tripwire:

so what if that outpost has been there since 1970? so what if the weapon use was a LGB or watever precision weapon....??

its called a MISTAKE....

if you cant understand what mistake means... flip out your dictionary....

isrealis aint GOD for god sake...

a man can drive for 50 years and still ends up with an stupid accident....

That UN post sits just opposite Israel's border. Any IDF soldier would have it clear view of it and the UN flag is flying high on the mast. It is sitting on a flat land with no buildings or houses at it's side. For goodness sake it was bombed for six hours... calling ten times for Israel to stop.

Since the post was there for over 28 yrs.. any dumb commanders would know that by feel.

As for mistake.. the IDF seems to be making plenty of it.

isrealis aint GOD for god sake...

But they seemed to have the power to take lives wantonly.