Wonder why SAF seems to like to tempt military buffs with half classified hardware. As it its not 100% classified 'cos pictures of them have appeared but there's no official notice from MINDEF neither does the info appear on MINDEF website.

Classic e.g. would be MLRS. ST's David Boey already wrote about it but nothing on MINDEF website. This new toy that Combat Engineers use appeared in one of the army recruitment posters but once again nothing on MINDEF website. The new sniper rifle also appeared on army recruitment posters but nothing was mentioned till recently.

Very odd. If you want to keep it under wraps, then do so. If you're gonna release pics of it, then openly say you have it.

Thats true...wonder why they did this...

Since it have been released in ST newspapers i don't see why they still want to 'hide' this info on the official Mindef website. I mean it won't be too much to ask for some little pictures and some general specs. Will help in recruitment of new soldiers too.

Originally posted by sgf:

Wonder why SAF seems to like to tempt military buffs with half classified hardware. As it its not 100% classified 'cos pictures of them have appeared but there's no official notice from MINDEF neither does the info appear on MINDEF website.

Classic e.g. would be MLRS. ST's David Boey already wrote about it but nothing on MINDEF website. This new toy that Combat Engineers use appeared in one of the army recruitment posters but once again nothing on MINDEF website. The new sniper rifle also appeared on army recruitment posters but nothing was mentioned till recently.

Very odd. If you want to keep it under wraps, then do so. If you're gonna release pics of it, then openly say you have it.

What new toy does the Combat Engineers have?The M3G?

Let's be more mature and think.

You think the SAF is interested in tempting or even entertaining "military buffs"? You think SAF is a club or what?

We're a real fighting force, capable of real operations.

SAF prefers to be more low-key on certain things, to avoid the perception of an arms race and also avoid the perception that we're aggreesive or offensive?

We would like to exist as a peace-loving, defensive, deterrent force.

So they selectively reveal certain things, for the deterrence effect, yet not wanting to appear aggressive or offensive. Its a fine line to balance.

As for the sniper rifles...an article was written on the Straits' Times sometime back on the PGM mini-Hecate 8.6mm....and others too...ST usually covers them.

If its really classified, they wouldn't even talk about it...just that SAF is not so keen on boasting about equipment, so they don't see a need to keep maintaining a super-up-to-date equipment list on the website, nor do they find need to keep publicising things...they just need periodical updates for
citizens to be assured, and to project a sufficient deterrence.

But to tempt military buffs..I don't think we're interested.

Defence issues are always sensitive, especially in this region. The SAF exists to protect Singapore, and if this is done best by being low key, that is what the SAF will do.

There are many 100% classified hardware where you dun even know what it is for or how to operate them. Think------->signal related stuff.

Originally posted by edwin3060:

Defence issues are always sensitive, especially in this region. The SAF exists to protect Singapore, and if this is done best by being low key, that is what the SAF will do.

But sometimes the SAF will have this big military parades (together with the members of the Home Team eg. SCDF and SPF) such as during NDP 2000, that is quite clearly a show of force....deterent force i mean....

Originally posted by tankee1981:

But sometimes the SAF will have this big military parades (together with the members of the Home Team eg. SCDF and SPF) such as during NDP 2000, that is quite clearly a show of force....deterent force i mean....

Exactly my point. The right combination of being secretive and showing off our military might works to confuse and scare potential aggressors
Afterall, if we didn't hide our SM1 until the 1967 NDP, some people's jaws might not drop right?

Originally posted by Manager433:

There are many 100% classified hardware where you dun even know what it is for or how to operate them. Think------->signal related stuff.

SHHH! Don't tell everyone that we have integrated signal sets on our classified gundams!!

Originally posted by specialOps:

Let's be more mature and think.

You think the SAF is interested in tempting or even entertaining "military buffs"? You think SAF is a club or what?

We're a real fighting force, capable of real operations.

SAF prefers to be more low-key on certain things, to avoid the perception of an arms race and also avoid the perception that we're aggreesive or offensive?

We would like to exist as a peace-loving, defensive, deterrent force.

So they selectively reveal certain things, for the deterrence effect, yet not wanting to appear aggressive or offensive. Its a fine line to balance.

As for the sniper rifles...an article was written on the Straits' Times sometime back on the PGM mini-Hecate 8.6mm....and others too...ST usually covers them.

If its really classified, they wouldn't even talk about it...just that SAF is not so keen on boasting about equipment, so they don't see a need to keep maintaining a super-up-to-date equipment list on the website, nor do they find need to keep publicising things...they just need periodical updates for
citizens to be assured, and to project a sufficient deterrence.

But to tempt military buffs..I don't think we're interested.

And real military enthusiasts know where to draw the line as well, given that we've all served in various places.

Originally posted by |-|05|:

What new toy does the Combat Engineers have?The M3G?

Nope. M3G was mentioned. This is land based, probably used by armoured engineers. Can't say much except originally, the vehicle was named after an animal but I'm sure SAF renamed it.

Originally posted by specialOps:

Let's be more mature and think.

You think the SAF is interested in tempting or even entertaining "military buffs"? You think SAF is a club or what?

We're a real fighting force, capable of real operations.

SAF prefers to be more low-key on certain things, to avoid the perception of an arms race and also avoid the perception that we're aggreesive or offensive?

We would like to exist as a peace-loving, defensive, deterrent force.

So they selectively reveal certain things, for the deterrence effect, yet not wanting to appear aggressive or offensive. Its a fine line to balance.

As for the sniper rifles...an article was written on the Straits' Times sometime back on the PGM mini-Hecate 8.6mm....and others too...ST usually covers them.

If its really classified, they wouldn't even talk about it...just that SAF is not so keen on boasting about equipment, so they don't see a need to keep maintaining a super-up-to-date equipment list on the website, nor do they find need to keep publicising things...they just need periodical updates for
citizens to be assured, and to project a sufficient deterrence.

But to tempt military buffs..I don't think we're interested.

Like I said, if we are gonna be hush hush, then let's be hush hush all the way. Why bother with the half show?

You think spies from unfriendly countries would not have noticed a new sniper rifle or new SCE vehicle from the army recruitment posters?

Slightly off-topic...

During the mid-80s, SOF was already "rumoured" to be in existence.

But until today, do we "officially" have a SOF unit?

...

When the Pakistani hijack SIA plane, the official name for the people who did the storming was "commandos". But initially their faces were always not revealed in the news.

It was only some time later when they received some President's award or something that we saw their names and faces.

Are they commandos in the ordinary sense? Or are they SOF?

Originally posted by chino65:

Slightly off-topic...

During the mid-80s, SOF was already "rumoured" to be in existence.

But until today, do we "officially" have a SOF unit?

...

When the Pakistani hijack SIA plane, the official name for the people who did the storming was "commandos". But initially their faces were always not revealed in the news.

It was only some time later when they received some President's award or something that we saw their names and faces.

Are they commandos in the ordinary sense? Or are they SOF?

During the SQ hi-jack case, in the late 80s, the SOF didn't officially exist....

The "unit" that was "decorated" for the successful hostage rescue is technically "HQ Commandoes"...... this is all in the official press at that time...

I think the SOF is "official" now... there is even recruitment posters in the SAF barracks showing "SOF" etc....

Originally posted by spencer99:

During the SQ hi-jack case, in the late 80s, the SOF didn't officially exist....

The "unit" that was "decorated" for the successful hostage rescue is technically "HQ Commandoes"...... this is all in the official press at that time...

I think the SOF is "official" now... there is even recruitment posters in the SAF barracks showing "SOF" etc....

You mean they actually used the word " SOF " ? Or they just look lke SOF?

You see a commando wearing the “We Dare” badge, you know he’s SOF or former SOF.

Originally posted by chino65:

You mean they actually used the word " SOF " ? Or they just look lke SOF?

They use the acctual word.They have been declassified.
Even in intranet can find SOF liao.But there are still classified units.Those guys in OA is just a bunch of numbers so u dunno wad they do or even wad they are LOL.

Ohh so AE has some new toys er? hah are u sure it's not just some random stuff they added in to look more garang?
Anyway i'm frm an SCE where almost everything is classified so heh.
I think only infantry has barely any classified stuff.

Originally posted by |-|05|:

I think only infantry has barely any classified stuff.

OI !!

Dun "qua suay" infantry OK ?

Originally posted by Shotgun:

You see a commando wearing the "We Dare" badge, you know he's SOF or former SOF.

Shoulder tabs?

that's only cos a lot of soffers cannot keep their mouth shut and like to show off ... even on a short overseas training exercise their wifeys and gfs will write to them with name, rank and unit printed on the envelops ...

Originally posted by chino65:

Slightly off-topic...

During the mid-80s, SOF was already "rumoured" to be in existence.

But until today, do we "officially" have a SOF unit?

...

When the Pakistani hijack SIA plane, the official name for the people who did the storming was "commandos". But initially their faces were always not revealed in the news.

It was only some time later when they received some President's award or something that we saw their names and faces.

Are they commandos in the ordinary sense? Or are they SOF?

They were official unveiled donkey years ago when Tony Tan was still defence minister. In fact their logo with the motto We Dare have been seen in public many times during army open houses.

Originally posted by sgf:

Like I said, if we are gonna be hush hush, then let's be hush hush all the way. Why bother with the half show?

You think spies from unfriendly countries would not have noticed a new sniper rifle or new SCE vehicle from the army recruitment posters?

You still don't understand. It is a matter of allowing people to know we have certain equipment, but it is another matter not to boast about it.

Boasting and keep talking about it, publicising, will give people the impression that we're trying to be offensive, especially for offensive equipment/weapons.

For example, we have the new PGM mini-Hecate. We publicised it as news, just for knowledge sake, to update our people, but if we keep talking and talking and talking about it...the image we project out will become offensive, like trying to provoke.

The point is, we publicise, update on news, both for our own people to know and be confident and also as deterrent, but we DO NOT want to appear like provoking reaction.

REAL classified things...u will not even hear it mention. It is as though they never existed. Those are secret edge, which if revealed instead of being deterrent, it will immediately become provocative.

anyway, SOF is unclassified.

They have official posters, and in exhibitions, they are officially introduced as SOF members, and they do demos to foreign and local VIPs also.

But SOF members, although allowed to reveal their identity, they try to keep to a low-profile as much as possible, because they do not like to be identified in public as much as possible. If they go into real ops one day, it may blow their cover or draw revenge.

they are quite easily identifiable, the only Army people who wear all the funny wings + diving and sometimes Navy SEAL badge, or blue USA "SPECIAL FORCE" tab on their shoulder....its quite obvious one....

Originally posted by chino65:

Slightly off-topic...

During the mid-80s, SOF was already "rumoured" to be in existence.

But until today, do we "officially" have a SOF unit?

...

When the Pakistani hijack SIA plane, the official name for the people who did the storming was "commandos". But initially their faces were always not revealed in the news.

It was only some time later when they received some President's award or something that we saw their names and faces.

Are they commandos in the ordinary sense? Or are they SOF?

SOF booth was at Army Open House 2005. Emblem, name and all. Public tryout of their equipment too.

Originally posted by specialOps:

You still don't understand. It is a matter of allowing people to know we have certain equipment, but it is another matter not to boast about it.

Boasting and keep talking about it, publicising, will give people the impression that we're trying to be offensive, especially for offensive equipment/weapons.

For example, we have the new PGM mini-Hecate. We publicised it as news, just for knowledge sake, to update our people, but if we keep talking and talking and talking about it...the image we project out will become offensive, like trying to provoke.

The point is, we publicise, update on news, both for our own people to know and be confident and also as deterrent, but we DO NOT want to appear like provoking reaction.

REAL classified things...u will not even hear it mention. It is as though they never existed. Those are secret edge, which if revealed instead of being deterrent, it will immediately become provocative.

Well, let's just say that idea of offensive posture has probably gained a bit of ground within certain circles.

That's as far as I will go. The "poison shrimp" doctrine has been superseded somewhat, if you have observed through our publicly acknowledged roles, procurement and even press releases.. though short of a name change.

One beneficial outcome of "provocation" is to see how much impact you have on pond life, when the pebbles are pelted into the water. Ripples are just that.



What's truly important and classified will always remain so. Anything else, is perhaps valid fuel for the campfire.