Formidable class frigates replied by lionnoisy @ Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:33:38 +0800

lionnoisy — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:33:38 +0800

Frigate RSS STEADFAST

visited Shanghai,PRC 25.08.2008 for 5 days,after visiting Japan..

''The Singapore navy’s stealth frigate ended a five-day port call at Yokosuka Naval Base on Wednesday(20.08.2008), which marked the first visit to Japan by a Singaporean frigate, the Defense Ministry said.''

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/singapore-navy-stealth-vessel-ends-call-at-japans-yokosuka-port

Wow!!Japan and PRC in one sailing!!

note the radar is rotating

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/p/2008-08-25/1454518173.html

Formidable class frigates replied by lionnoisy @ Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:48:45 +0800

lionnoisy — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:48:45 +0800

http://bbs.news.sina.com.cn/tableforum/App/view.php?bbsid=4&subid=2&fid=90103&tbid=5946

EX PASSEX with USN.few photos.

Formidable class frigates replied by YI @ Thu, 29 May 2008 18:22:57 +0800

YI — Thu, 29 May 2008 18:22:57 +0800

so many smoke sia..

Formidable class frigates replied by foxtrout8 @ Wed, 28 May 2008 23:32:21 +0800

foxtrout8 — Wed, 28 May 2008 23:32:21 +0800

Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:

I have no idea about Herackles and Scanter.

no doubt that the herakles (hercules) is the MFR. the Terma Scanter2001 is the surface search/nav radar according to multiple sources. pls correct me if im wrong thanks.

didnt know that they are using furuno...ha

shouldnt they design a mast (similar to the thales integrated modular mast system) with the MFR possibly spinning inside the mast rather than having the whole radar mast itself spinning?

Formidable class frigates replied by LazerLordz @ Wed, 28 May 2008 21:55:43 +0800

LazerLordz — Wed, 28 May 2008 21:55:43 +0800

Originally posted by AnaLoG:

I am suppose some of you here are either from the marine industry or you read up a lot regarding weapons. I will be amazed if anyone out here have gone into the RSS Formidable and even if you have done so you would not have say the specliaites of this stealth unit.

Just explaining in layman terms

Though i am not in the crew but regarding the consturcting of this ship I still have some knowledge. This ship is designed in a funny shape that under the radar, it will be seen as a small fishing boat. Its material to construct the ship can actually absorb radar wave and reflect at the same time. Thats why at the side the ship is flat.

During naval warfare, when you see Singapore's Formaidable Class in your radar. It either you get your men to abandon ship or just fire everything you have but you will end up in the water also. Before the RSS formaidable goes near you, the submarine is already within effective firing range.

Just side tracking, what you seen on the news and internet is what the RSN can show you. But there are more towards its capabilities. More of this class of stealth figates are on the way. It will soon replace the current figates that singapore has. Together with the new seahawk attack helicopter, you can enjoy the firepower the first line of naval defense the navy of singapore has. There are other weapons in this figates too.

That is how much I can tell you. If I tell you more I have to kill you. :)

There might be some people here whoever may know a fair bit more, but whatever is not in the public domain, will always remain classified.

However, what you have described is just a portion of what is available on public domain..

Formidable class frigates replied by 16/f/lonely @ Wed, 28 May 2008 21:31:31 +0800

16/f/lonely — Wed, 28 May 2008 21:31:31 +0800

The MFR is not used as the primary nav radar.....that one is covered by the NF1, NR2 (furuno) and HAR as I know that.

I have no idea about Herackles and Scanter.

And yes.....you need radar to mantain formation. Keeping a constant course should do the trick. But you must also track the other ships' heading and speed.

Edit: Add on, when the MFR spins, sometimes you can feel it. And it makes a whirring sound that is fairly audible.

Formidable class frigates replied by foxtrout8 @ Wed, 28 May 2008 16:18:58 +0800

foxtrout8 — Wed, 28 May 2008 16:18:58 +0800

hey guys, both the herakles MFR and the scanter 2001 radars should be spinning... any one have the video again? thanks.

Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formidable_class_frigate can be quite confusing. the herakles is a 3D Multi function radar which is list as a search radar. while the scanter 2001 is by right the surface search/navigation radar but it is list as just a navigation radar on the web.

if you are talking about surface search, my first impression will be the scanter2001 and not the herakles which has the 3D function.

and yah, when playing formation, they will switch on the navigation radar cos they will most likely play with functions such as guard circle etc...surely significance as safety measure and a guide on each vessel's placing in the formation.

Formidable class frigates replied by Joe Black @ Wed, 28 May 2008 12:54:09 +0800

Joe Black — Wed, 28 May 2008 12:54:09 +0800

Formidable class frigates replied by Joe Black @ Wed, 28 May 2008 12:50:32 +0800

Joe Black — Wed, 28 May 2008 12:50:32 +0800

Yea, unlike most Active Array radars like the Aegis, Herakles only have a single planar, which means it has to rotate to get a 360 degree coverage. In the footage of the exercise, it seems to be doing nearly close to 60 rpm, or 1 rev per sec.

see

http://aurore.gilles.free.fr/dotclear/index.php?post/2008/03/09/%5BInfos-blog%5D-Avancement-du-referencement

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-6990872965485964069

Video of the exercise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66CpVxV2JFg

Formidable class frigates replied by Shotgun @ Wed, 28 May 2008 00:44:44 +0800

Shotgun — Wed, 28 May 2008 00:44:44 +0800

Originally posted by Joe Black:

I think Shotgun was just being cheeky.

If you have seen a video footage of the exercise, it was the Herakle radar that spinned like crazy.

Herakles spin...? Eh??

I feel like I'm being spun around here right now. Anyways, I was referencinging to this image when I made the comments.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/formidable/formidable4.html

I'm quite sure that spinning one was the Surf-search / navigation.

As in any tight formation manuevers ( speaking from a 4-ship jet formation perspective), its all about the "heading". If all ships have the same heading, they should in theory remain in parallel course. Eg, when I want to close into wingtip formation with my lead, I make +- 1 to 5 degrees adjustments towards my lead's heading then correct back to match his heading to maintain lateral seperation.

Any sudden seperations are required to be pre-briefed / planned in order to deconflict flight paths. I imagine its the same for ships in close formation.

Hence, the radar is really not of much significance in maintaining formation.

Formidable class frigates replied by |-|05| @ Tue, 27 May 2008 21:06:37 +0800

|-|05| — Tue, 27 May 2008 21:06:37 +0800

Yea the SAF is strapped for manpower.
Considering they are staffing the current operational Frigates with NSFs….heh i’m not surprised if they can barely get the last ship staffed

Formidable class frigates replied by 16/f/lonely @ Tue, 27 May 2008 20:31:41 +0800

16/f/lonely — Tue, 27 May 2008 20:31:41 +0800

So much for having this type but not having the luxury of manpower.

Shan't reveal much, but......likely. The 6th frigate.......*lip seals shut.

Formidable class frigates replied by edwin3060 @ Tue, 27 May 2008 16:48:53 +0800

edwin3060 — Tue, 27 May 2008 16:48:53 +0800

Uhh.. there is no need for melodramatics, Analog. The DCNS La-Fayette class frigates have been around for quite a long time, much of the data about it is known, and there is nothing special about it. What you are describing is already known by most, if not all, of the other posters in this thread.

Your statement about the replacement frigates may well come true-- in another 20-30 years. We have just received the present frigates, why would we replace them so soon?

Formidable class frigates replied by AnaLoG @ Tue, 27 May 2008 16:35:33 +0800

AnaLoG — Tue, 27 May 2008 16:35:33 +0800

I am suppose some of you here are either from the marine industry or you read up a lot regarding weapons. I will be amazed if anyone out here have gone into the RSS Formidable and even if you have done so you would not have say the specliaites of this stealth unit.

Just explaining in layman terms

Though i am not in the crew but regarding the consturcting of this ship I still have some knowledge. This ship is designed in a funny shape that under the radar, it will be seen as a small fishing boat. Its material to construct the ship can actually absorb radar wave and reflect at the same time. Thats why at the side the ship is flat.

During naval warfare, when you see Singapore's Formaidable Class in your radar. It either you get your men to abandon ship or just fire everything you have but you will end up in the water also. Before the RSS formaidable goes near you, the submarine is already within effective firing range.

Just side tracking, what you seen on the news and internet is what the RSN can show you. But there are more towards its capabilities. More of this class of stealth figates are on the way. It will soon replace the current figates that singapore has. Together with the new seahawk attack helicopter, you can enjoy the firepower the first line of naval defense the navy of singapore has. There are other weapons in this figates too.

That is how much I can tell you. If I tell you more I have to kill you. :)

Formidable class frigates replied by Joe Black @ Tue, 27 May 2008 16:08:09 +0800

Joe Black — Tue, 27 May 2008 16:08:09 +0800

I think Shotgun was just being cheeky.

If you have seen a video footage of the exercise, it was the Herakle radar that spinned like crazy.

Formidable class frigates replied by YI @ Tue, 27 May 2008 07:00:37 +0800

YI — Tue, 27 May 2008 07:00:37 +0800

Originally posted by Shotgun:

By search radar you mean the surf-search?

yes. i am referring to the surface search and navigation radar. i am of the opinion that safety is paramount when manoeuvring in such a tight formation.

Formidable class frigates replied by Shotgun @ Tue, 27 May 2008 00:01:41 +0800

Shotgun — Tue, 27 May 2008 00:01:41 +0800

Originally posted by YI:

from a still photo, it would be rather hard to judge if a radar is rotating or not. for what you know, both of you could be correct. the navigation and search radar are rotating... heheh

By search radar you mean the surf-search?

Formidable class frigates replied by lionnoisy @ Mon, 26 May 2008 22:13:53 +0800

lionnoisy — Mon, 26 May 2008 22:13:53 +0800

usually u can see the radar in this position.

u hardly see in this position

Formidable class frigates replied by YI @ Mon, 26 May 2008 21:12:08 +0800

YI — Mon, 26 May 2008 21:12:08 +0800

Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:

It's not.

That's the Multi-Function Radar used to compile pictures for the CIC.

The nav radars are located on top of the hangar (for helicopter), on the mast (main), and on the bridge-top below the rotating MFR.

from a still photo, it would be rather hard to judge if a radar is rotating or not. for what you know, both of you could be correct. the navigation and search radar are rotating... heheh

Formidable class frigates replied by 16/f/lonely @ Mon, 26 May 2008 19:20:43 +0800

16/f/lonely — Mon, 26 May 2008 19:20:43 +0800

Originally posted by Shotgun:

The rotating radar is the navigation radar.

It's not.

That's the Multi-Function Radar used to compile pictures for the CIC.

The nav radars are located on top of the hangar (for helicopter), on the mast (main), and on the bridge-top below the rotating MFR.

Formidable class frigates replied by Shotgun @ Mon, 26 May 2008 01:23:30 +0800

Shotgun — Mon, 26 May 2008 01:23:30 +0800

The rotating radar is the navigation radar.

Formidable class frigates replied by edwin3060 @ Sun, 25 May 2008 22:24:54 +0800

edwin3060 — Sun, 25 May 2008 22:24:54 +0800

As to the comment about why we call them "Stealth" frigates rather than "Low Observable" or "Signature reduced", I guess that stealth sounds alot sexier and may help in recruiting enough people to actually crew the frigates-- sometimes being media savvy is more important than being accurate.

Formidable class frigates replied by lionnoisy @ Sun, 25 May 2008 21:28:31 +0800

lionnoisy — Sun, 25 May 2008 21:28:31 +0800

above:radar is rotating!

It looks like EX with US.

http://bbs.news.sina.com.cn/tableforum/App/view.php?bbsid=4&subid=3&fid=82710&tbid=2097

Formidable class frigates replied by spartan_6 @ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:34:24 +0800

spartan_6 — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:34:24 +0800

I think if our MPA need 2 get within 30KM 2 detect e light reflection from our frigate rotating radar it is steath enough

Formidable class frigates replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:10:54 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:10:54 +0800

Originally posted by Shotgun:

Well the common misunderstanding is that "stealth" is just the technology itself. Although that seems to be the direction developments are heading.

However, a stealthy profile often involves more than that. Just like a camouflaged soldier is easily seen standing in the middle of the road, a stealth profile will also affect perimeters such as ingress and egress for fighters. Eg, when the F-117 had to fly outside its stealth profile, it was picked up and consequently shot down in Serbia.

Everything we can discuss about stealth and its associated technologies such as signature reduction is mostly theory. Its pretty hard to throw up numbers since there are simply too many factors that most of us really have know knowledge of. Hence, its pretty much concept talk.

More or less, mission profile matters as well. If a B-2 pilot banked his plane so that it presented a huge surface area for enemy radars to track and flew very near a radar emmiter he'll be pretty much toast.

But of course if you ask me what our Formidable stealth is more for, it's my opinion it's to decieve and not hide.

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