STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by wonderamazement @ Fri, 09 May 2008 21:09:01 +0800

wonderamazement — Fri, 09 May 2008 21:09:01 +0800

it's like so fugging bulky.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by justcooler @ Fri, 09 May 2008 11:06:43 +0800

justcooler — Fri, 09 May 2008 11:06:43 +0800

I believe that metal storm will be a great support weapon for infantry battalion. Form the prototype, it seem too big for personal version, unless they miniturised it into firing 5.56 or 7.62 rounds

Shot on the test trail of the weapon indicate that it will be great for saturate bombarment of a fortified location. Just imagine over a 1000 rounds of 40mm falling on you in short burst how will you feel?

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by Sepecat @ Thu, 08 May 2008 23:17:12 +0800

Sepecat — Thu, 08 May 2008 23:17:12 +0800

I thought that STK is working with Metal Storm to produce this weapon ?

Expert opinion please !

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:25:29 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:25:29 +0800

Note the XM25 is significatly deadiler then our SSW

Caliber: 25mm
Type: semiautomatic, magazine fed
Weight: less than 5.45 kg
Effective range: up to 500 m against point targets, up to 700 m against area targets (this is much further then our 40mm)
Magazine capacity: 6 rounds (twice the ammo capacity)

The XM25 Advanced Airburst Weapon System is an entirely new class of weapon that takes the concept of a grenade launcher and adds some smarts, thereby increasing the probability of hit-to-kill performance by up to 500 percent over existing weapons. The advanced design allows the soldier to program the air bursting 25mm round so that it flies to the target and detonates at a precise point in the air. It does not require impact to detonate and is hence capable of defeating an enemy behind a wall, inside a building or in a foxhole.

Alliant Techsystems has delivered the first six prototype XM25 advanced airbursting weapon systems to the U.S. Army for field-testing. The XM25 fires a High Explosive (HE), air bursting 25mm round capable of defeating an enemy behind a wall, inside a building or in a foxhole. The advanced design allows the operator to program the round so that it flies to the target and detonates at a precise point in the air. It does not require impact to detonate.

The XM25 is ideal for urban combat. It puts precision firepower in the hands of the soldier, allowing them to eliminate threats without causing significant collateral damage. “The initial field tests are very promising,” said LTC Matthew Clarke, U.S. Army project manager, individual weapons. “A weapon system like the XM25 will prove invaluable to our warfighters. It will be a clear differentiator on the battlefield.”

The revolutionary fire control system for the XM25 employs an advanced laser rangefinder that transmits information to the chambered 25mm round. As the round flies downrange to the target, it precisely measures the distance travelled and detonates at exactly the right moment to deliver maximum effectiveness.

The XM25 increases the warfighter’s probability of hit-to-kill performance by up to 500 percent over existing weapons. It also extends the effective range of the soldier’s individual weapon to more than 500 meters.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:04:20 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:04:20 +0800

Plus you haven't answered, after all I've shown you on the decades and even centuries of understanding of directed fragmentation effects.

What's so world first about our "cone shaped effects"?

And what happened to the other threads you posted in, why so quiet?

No guts to reply?

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:57:22 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:57:22 +0800

U have to make the weapons u want with current technology and materials,not wait and wait till the sun disappear.

Is SG SSW heavier than XM 29?read again lah,expert!!

WRONG again.

If the Yanks rushed and made the MBT 70 without waiting for technology to mature we would not have gotten the M-1 Abrams, which is a far superior tank.

Simple, you wait when you know that a new generation of technologies are coming to take the best use of it. 40mm grenades are reaching the limit of their performance envelope, the Yanks were right to develop and explore other alternatives that are up to 500 percent more effective.

We on the other hand, are running into a performance dead end with the 40mm.

Heavier?

Use your common sense, this is like the case of you mixing up us having a large number of 500 ton lightweight ships for having a larger navy then the RAN.

You go by bang-for-pound, not just pound.

In terms of bang-for-pound the OICW is FAR superior to the SSW. And note it never achieved it's original design specs which would have made it LIGHTER and even MORE EFFECTIVE.

There is a thing called prudence, you do not rush into things when they can be done better in time.

Of course given how you rush into things like making your posts I am not surprised you screw up yet again.

If you look at the original design specs of the OICW:

It must be 6.8 kg loaded

Have FIVE HE module rounds

Plus a 30-round 5.56mm KE module.

And these were the specs laid abourt a decade ago

In the SSW, despite having 10 years to work things out we cheated, we cut corners on the KE module by using a puny, 20 round 5.7mm PDW module instead of the full fledged 5.56mm KE module on the OICW. Plus the HE module of the SSW only sports THREE shots of HE.

Hence actually in terms of combat-effectiveness, we are carrying a HEAVIER weapon in terms of its effectiveness. The OICW KE and HE module can hit further and harder with far more precision (rifle vs PDW fire), plus they have additional staying power with 10 extra KE rounds and 2 HE rounds and each of the HE rounds are more combat-effective then our own 40mm rounds.

That is a BIG difference in killing power, for just 800 grams.

US cant solve some problems lah.eg FCS,i think.

can they squeeeeeeeze FCS like this

WRONG.

If you look at the real reasons behind why they decided to call off the project is because they had MORE AMBITIOUS ideas for it and didn't want to commit to a system when they felt they could put a better system into the hand of the grunts.

We on the other hand, are rushing into things with a previous generation concept.

In terms of FCS, advanced HE rounds (thermobaric) and concepts, the yanks are far, far ahead of us.

u feed info and FCS control grenade when and where to explode!!

Tungsten balls ,besides targeting at human hide behind walls,

in trench,on roof,around the corner etc,also

act as vision killer to blind sights of tanks,ACP etc

So what?

Can this match up to a thermobaric warhead that has the potential to totally destroy a room? Plus 25mm projects much further then 40mm, is easier to aim, and you can carry more of these as well.

The 20mm shell of the OICW has been replaced by a 25mm shell. The 20mm was originally adopted because the weapon and the ammo would be lighter, and the weapon was too heavy as it was. The XM29's weight was a major factor in its cancellation. Splitting the grenade launcher off into its own weapon allowed the step up to the 25mm shell, which increases performance by about 50%.

The 25mm shell in the XM-25 provided some more options, and, it is hoped, more lethality. The US has fired over 30 million 25mm shells from the cannon on its M-2 Bradley armored vehicles and was satisfied with the lethality of that shell against infantry. One of the new options with a larger shell is a fuel-air explosive (or "thermobaric") shell for the XM-25. Such a shell would cause greater blast effect in an enclosed space, and actually suck most of the oxygen out of a cave or closed room long enough to make surviving troops at least a bit groggy. In combat, every bit helps.

The 20mm and 25mm "smart shells" use a computer controlled fuze in each shell. The M-25 or M-307 operator can select four different firing modes via a selector switch on the weapon. The four modes include "Bursting" (airburst). For this to work, the soldier first finds the target via the weapons sighting system. This includes a laser range finder and the ability to select and adjust the range shown in the sight picture. For an air burst the soldier aims at an enemy position and fires a round. The shell is optimized to spray incapacitating (wounding or killing) fragments in a roughly six meter radius from the exploding round. Thus if enemy troops are seen moving near trees or buildings at a long distance (over 500 meters), the weapon has a good chance of getting them with one shot. M-16s are not very accurate at that range, and the enemy troops will dive for cover as soon as M-16 bullets hit around them. With smart shells, you get one (or a few) accurate shots and the element of surprise.

The other modes are "PD" (point detonation, where the round explodes on contact), PDD (point detonation delay, where the round detonates immediately after it has gone through a door, window or thin wall) and "Window", which is used for firing at enemy troops in a trench, behind a stone wall or inside a room. The round detonates just beyond the aiming point. For buildings, this would be a window or door frame, cave entrance or the corner of a building (to get enemy troops thought to be around the corner.)
While the XM8 is basically nothing more than an incremental improvement to existing assault rifle technology, the XM25 is a great leap forward for individual fire support.

The 25mm shell for the XM25 was originally developed for the XM307 grenade launcher, which is to replace the current 40mm M19 grenade launcher found on many vehicles, especially Humvees and Strykers. The XM307 has a much longer range than the M19, and it's more accurate and lethal. Good stuff.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by lionnoisy @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:42:26 +0800

lionnoisy — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:42:26 +0800

''The OICW concept was put on hold for the simple reason the yanks wanted technology to mature even further to achieve their project goals. You do not seriously think with a technology base far in advance of ours in weapons technology, plus a defence budget many times in excess of ours they do not have the means or power to implement what they set out to do?

Note that the SSW is not only heavier, but far less effective then the original OICW specs that was set 10 YEARS before.''

Wait for technology to mature?How many years or decades to wait?

U have to make the weapons u want with current technology and materials,not wait and wait till the sun disappear.

Is SG SSW heavier than XM 29?read again lah,expert!!

SG SSW is only 6 kg lah!!

US cant solve some problems lah.eg FCS,i think.

can they squeeeeeeeze FCS like this

into

ST Kinetics' SSW is the only infantry weapon developed in Asia with a Fire Control System (FCS) that fires next generation programmable ammunition like the 40mm Air Bursting Munition (ABM) directly from a handheld system.

Weighing only 6kg with a full load 4 x 40mm rounds and 20 x 5.7mm rounds, the SSW is hassle-free, intuitive to use, and short and light enough to be carried and efficiently deployed by individual soldiers even in confined spaces.

u feed info and FCS control grenade when and where to explode!!

Tungsten balls ,besides targeting at human hide behind walls,

in trench,on roof,around the corner etc,also

act as vision killer to blind sights of tanks,ACP etc

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:35:03 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:35:03 +0800

Not to mention, ST is not the only firm in the world who does the airbursting grenade concept. The yanks certainly have it with their current work into 20mm, 25mm grenades that can travel further and are far more lethal then our "cone-shaped fragmentation" stuff with their thermobaric warhead and the Israelis also got their own:

Israeli Firms Develop Smart Munitions For M203 Grenade Launchers.

Israel's Aryt Industries, Israel Military Industries (IMI) and ITL Optronics have developed a smart 40mm munition with a new electronic fuse system designed for urban warfare that is accurate to within 50 centimeters.

So what's new and world first? ST painted the 40mm grenades with HDB baby pink?

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:27:25 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:27:25 +0800

WRONG, yet another case of you pwning yourself.

In fact you made such an obvious mistake that had you bother to follow up on the ACR project with even a basic read you would have understood why the OICW did not come through for now.

The OICW concept was put on hold for the simple reason the yanks wanted technology to mature even further to achieve their project goals. You do not seriously think with a technology base far in advance of ours in weapons technology, plus a defence budget many times in excess of ours they do not have the means or power to implement what they set out to do?

Note that the SSW is not only heavier, but far less effective then the original OICW specs that was set 10 YEARS before.

It's another case of you trying to claim 250ton mandai is equal to 30 MEGATON Cheyenne Mountain.

Also, you are forgetting the other examples of OICW-styled weapons like the FN 2000 that have found customers.

So what's new?

Nothing, certianly not in your ability to get your facts correct, which unfortunately is still very low.

Not to mention the project is still ongoing in the XM25 Individual Airburst Weapon System capable of firing thermobaric smart rounds that will be far, far more lethal then our 40mm ammo.

Alliant Techsystems(ATK) ,maker of XM 29 has been dropped

Which Product did ATK put for this project?XM 29?

If so,it seems Swedish armed force prefer STK

and Nammo Raufoss of Norway.

What XM29? Do your homework, the XM25 is what is currently being developed.

Did it occur to you that Alliant was not selected by the Swedes (which is what they probably tried to sell to the swedes) because of the fact that they don't have a stock of 25mm grenades handy?

Hence STK was selected not because it was better, but because it was cheaper even though it was lousy and not presenting any original concepts. It's like buying a China brand car when you can afford a Volvo.

Or are you going to try some lame tack that STK can know their stuff better then Bofors?

Please don't be naive.

Prehaps you can try to get your english and comprehension into action:

no body claim SSW nor tungsten balls is a new concept.

It is the cone shape effects by tungsten balls by ST automatic GL

is the new concept.

WRONG again. Directed fragmentation effects are nothing new... once again you show absolutely NO knowledge of military affairs beyond the ST website.

The cone shape fragmentation effect is nothing new, directed fragmentation is a concept you can observe in the humble claymore mine, arty shells and in fact even the HARM missile.

Here's your world-first cone shaped fragmentation effect" that can be found in a weapon that was in use in Vietnam.

LOL, in fact even old cannons firing grapeshot shells already demostrated that hundreds of years ago the concept was already well known when the cannon was invented.

None of the concepts are new at all.

LOL, your post is wrong from the beginning to end.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by lionnoisy @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:08:14 +0800

lionnoisy — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:08:14 +0800

no body claim SSW nor tungsten balls is a new concept.

It is the cone shape effects by tungsten balls by ST automatic GL

is the new concept.

Maker of XM 29,ATK,has been dropped from this project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM29

This may be the best of the best.

but it has been stopped.So did the very good,as many think, XM 8.

sorry,Game over for above two weapons,at least for

the time being.

out of action!!

Dunt tell me which is which very good.

Only it find its way into soldiers hands,then

it may be good.

Like Chinese says,''It dunt matter who learn first.

Who succed first counts!''

I love Sweden.They sold us good subs,value for $$.

Now they work together with STK to develop SSW.

This is real fren.

Alliant Techsystems(ATK) ,maker of XM 29 has been dropped

Which Product did ATK put for this project?XM 29?

If so,it seems Swedish armed force prefer STK

and Nammo Raufoss of Norway.

Industry Feasibility Study 2002-2003
Four manufactures:
Saab BoforsDynamics, Sweden
Nammo Raufoss, Norway
AlliantTech Systems, USA
STK, Singapore

Orders were placed with Nammo and STK.
Deliveries by June 2003.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by Eddie Lee @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:36:41 +0800

Eddie Lee — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:36:41 +0800

That's a beautiful weapon!

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:08:31 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:08:31 +0800

Nope, the idea behind the OICW system is to take the concept of the UGL to the next level, ie. the focus is now on the grenades and not the KE module (the rifle)

There are plenty of reasons why one might want to go for smaller then 40mm grenades for next generation concepts. In the end the number of 40mm grenades carried by the grunt is limited and this amount can be doubled or more for the 20mm version.

This means in terms of staying power and contact rates the 20mm grunt can be in the fight almost twice as long as his 40mm counterpart. Besides that, the 20mm also travels further (longer range) and it's flatter trajectory simplifies aiming issues as opposed to the indirect 40mm round.

But of course, it seems technology still needs to play catch up.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by Croningfool @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:05:14 +0800

Croningfool — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:05:14 +0800

For what its worth, I think the swedes made the right choice in deciding to stick with 40mm. 20mm will probably not give you enough bang. You can say that with technology, we can make the 20mm deadlier. The same can be said for 40mm rounds so that is a moot point. The fact remains you can put more nasty things into a 40mm round that a 20mm round.

I note however, that the rifle uses some weird calibre rounds. Does anyone know if that is the standard rifle round used in the swedish army.

This is an odd concept. Instead of adding a grenade launcher to a standard rifle, like the 40mm UGL or the m203, the swedes have decided to add a rifle to a grenade launcher. I think that is not the right way to move ahead. The thing is bulky and seems to me to have very limited utility. If you want something that will give the infantry squad a little more bang, then the UGL and M203 fills the role. Maybe they could have made those two things 'smarter' and not faff about with a completley new system.

I guess what happened is that the swedes saw the OICW (not sure if that is still live), and decided to go that way because it looks cool.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:09:23 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:09:23 +0800

It's akin to climbing a tree with your underwear over your head. You may be the first to do so but you're not doing anything new in terms of the real idea behind climbing trees.

A lot of our "world's firsts" on closer examination are not really first, or important at all. Plenty of the ideas had already been in existence for a long time in various forms or the "world's first" wasn't even that useful to begin with.

A prime example would be the "world's first" assualt rifle to feature an intergal LAD, our SAR-21, but ultimately it proved to be nothing really special and the prevalance of P-rail systems and modular mountings for sights soon made the whole idea of an intergal LAD somewhat of a gimmick. The soldier does not fight any better for it, or prehaps even worse then another who could modify his rifle with a P-rail system.

And indeed, the "world's first" intergal LAD was dropped in the more advanced features of the SAR-21.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by edwin3060 @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:36:01 +0800

edwin3060 — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:36:01 +0800

Well, if (BIG if) they actually do deploy it operationally, it would be the first operational use then, right? But somehow I highly doubt that it will be effective.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:20:02 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:20:02 +0800

Even Korea has their own version of this concept:

And the Belgians as well

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:16:21 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:16:21 +0800

Note the tungsten balls explodes in cone shape.Keep the shooter safe.
Very first in the world!! read notes below.

This is not the very first in the world, in fact we are nearly 10 YEARS late in coming up with this idea, the Americans were already into it.

And also not the very first in here you make yet another mistake.

The concept of smart, air bursting rounds had already been established long ago in the OIWCS, we just ported this idea into our 40mm ammunition.

Note the advanced 20mm smart rounds were designed to be up to 5 TIMES more lethal then our 40mm grenades, this was because it could travel futher and engage a much larger range of targets then possible then the 40mm round, as well have the soldier being able to carry more rounds then possible with the 40mm (up to over twice the number of 40mm that can be carried)

But seriously, this concept is not new at all, and it has been employed plenty of times in other anti-personnel applications like arty shells for a very long time.

STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009 replied by lionnoisy @ Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:35:51 +0800

lionnoisy — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:35:51 +0800

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004arms/session3/arvidsson.pdf

new findings for old topics.

http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/214535

Info based on

''The Swedish Squad Support Weapon Program
Presentation to
”NDIA 50thJoint Services Small Arms Symposium”
Las Vegas,May 11, 2004

Per G. Arvidsson
Product Manager Small Arms Systems
Swedish Armed Forces Materiel Command''

STK SSW has been ordered and will be delivered 2009-2010.

JV with Orelikon Contraves.read pp 26 34 39 etc

Confirmed by Swedish Armed Forces Material Command

Note the tungsten balls explodes in cone shape.Keep the shooter safe.
Very first in the world!! read notes below.

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/cyberpioneer/backissues_jan05_01.htm

http://www.stengg.com/CoyCapPro/detail.aspx?pdid=150

Watch the video.note the Cone effect.

Industry Feasibility Study 2002-2003
Four manufactures:
Saab BoforsDynamics, Sweden
Nammo Raufoss, Norway
AlliantTech Systems, USA
STK, Singapore

Orders were placed with Nammo and STK.
Deliveries by June 2003.

AlliantTech Systems, USA,also known as ATK in stock market.
''STK is the system integrator for the Tiger AGL and for this study.
Sub contractors are:

Oerlikon Contraves, Switzerland''

''SSW project schedule
Development 2006-2008
Deliveries 2009-2010
Because we use standard 40mm components, the MV ammo and FCS will be COTS!''

STK=http://www.stengg.com/aboutus/company_detail.aspx?cylid=0&cyid=5

Questions:

Did Swedish Armed Forces order STK SSW and quantity?

It dunt make sense thay STK make SSW for foreign armed force

before STK make for SAF.

What is MV ammo and COTS?FCS is fire control sys lah.

above -As appeared in Strait Times

as shown in AA 2004.

it seem no body read all the slides.