Company dun want to pay me, can?
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My company is withholding my pay because they claim i owe them 4k+.
Last year june i signed up for a degree course because they offered to sponsor and we had a vebal agreement that a contract has to be signed, 2 years, that's what they said.
They paid for my first sem which amounts to 4k+. After half a year, they finally showed me the contract to be signed which added quite a lot of terms which I didn't hear before, so I decided not to sign it. After this decision, I decided to resign and they want the money they paid for the first sem back.
I showed signs that I may not have the ability the pay back thus they are withholding my pay.
Do I have the right to claim my paycheck and am I legally bound to return the 4k?
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well, they did pay for your first sem didn't they ? ......
even if you don't agree to the contract terms. ..... don't you feel ethically bound to return them the course fees ? .....
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verbal agreement counts towards nothing and with that i think you are on the losing end.
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dat's y i oways tell ppl to pay for their own.
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how come wait half year then sign contract?
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sponsor studies = contract 2 years working for them
studies sponsored for 1/2 year = what do u think?
u decided to resign? then they balonglong give u 1/2 year of free education meh? like that, give me the company name..i can sign up for 1 sem of free education..now, you and the company have a mutual agreement pacta sunt servanda whereby both parties have to keep their side of their bargain wat.. They offered..u ate the bait..(offer and acceptance)
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What I really don't understand is why you went for the course without signing the contract first. If they delay the contract signing, then you should put off going for the course until the contract has been signed.
That said, while you are under no contractual obligation to return the money, the right thing for you to do is to refund the money that they spent on you.
Besides, the company can take you to court if you refuse to pay, and they can win.... just that they'll have a harder time convincing the judge since there was nothing in black and white.
About the withholding of pay, if there's a clause in your employment contract that allows your employer to subtract your pay for situations like this.... then don't count on the MOM to help you.
Otherwise, as Master pointed out, they would have given you free education for nothing. Give me the name of your company, man..... I want free education!
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can!
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Wrong topic:
It should be "I dun want to pay back the company, can?"
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Originally posted by newcomer:
My company is withholding my pay because they claim i owe them 4k+.
Last year june i signed up for a degree course because they offered to sponsor and we had a vebal agreement that a contract has to be signed, 2 years, that's what they said.
They paid for my first sem which amounts to 4k+. After half a year, they finally showed me the contract to be signed which added quite a lot of terms which I didn't hear before, so I decided not to sign it. After this decision, I decided to resign and they want the money they paid for the first sem back.
I showed signs that I may not have the ability the pay back thus they are withholding my pay.
Do I have the right to claim my paycheck and am I legally bound to return the 4k?
Who ask you to be soo greeedy and guiliable to trust a verbal agreement?Don't you know that nothing is free in this world?
So what are the terms on the contract that is unacceptable for you?
The terms on the contract has to be fair to the company, cos it has to protect the interest of the company. But it doesn't necessary has to be fair to you cos you are working for the company and you have the luxury of upgrading your knowledge at the company's expense.
So if you think it's not fair to you, that is because deep inside you think you can take the company for a free ride.
Tell us then....if not it would not be acceptable for me to listen to your one-sided tale.
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Originally posted by fudgester:
What I really don't understand is why you went for the course without signing the contract first. If they delay the contract signing, then you should put off going for the course until the contract has been signed.
That said, while you are under no contractual obligation to return the money, the right thing for you to do is to refund the money that they spent on you.
Besides, the company can take you to court if you refuse to pay, and they can win.... just that they'll have a harder time convincing the judge since there was nothing in black and white.
About the withholding of pay, if there's a clause in your employment contract that allows your employer to subtract your pay for situations like this.... then don't count on the MOM to help you.
Otherwise, as Master pointed out, they would have given you free education for nothing. Give me the name of your company, man..... I want free education!
Assuming said clause is non existant then the only situation that will play out is my employer taking me to court? They'll still have to pay me my salary under the law, regardless in this case, no?
What are the fees incurred I have to pay if such situation arises? And what are the legal options for me; retain a lawyer, report to MOM, or represent myself(bad idea?)?
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u ok anot.
4 k juz gib dem lah.
stil wan embroil urself in legal tussel.
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Originally posted by newcomer:
Assuming said clause is non existant then the only situation that will play out is my employer taking me to court? They'll still have to pay me my salary under the law, regardless in this case, no?
What are the fees incurred I have to pay if such situation arises? And what are the legal options for me; retain a lawyer, report to MOM, or represent myself(bad idea?)?
Can you help me pay for 2 years of P Membership here? In return, i work for you for a month..or of equal value to the P membership..
then suddenly, u tell me i have to work for you 24 hours a day..serve u coffee..scratch your back...make you dinner..walk your dogs...wake you up...scratch your nose...
Wah..then i am sibei shocked because u never tell me all these before leh..then i tell you..wah lau eh..dun wan la..sian la..crazy ah work for you...
then in the end, i happy happy log on with my free p membership..with my blue font nickname and "large" avatar and title..
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borrow money, pay money, u lucky they not Along
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come on, this is a case clearly you are trying to take your company for a ride, i think they paid your fees in good faith thinking you'll be grateful, turns out you are the typical singaporean we very much despise....
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me tink u shld tell us wat r the terms dat they hv drawn up.
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Originally posted by fudgester:
What I really don't understand is why you went for the course without signing the contract first. If they delay the contract signing, then you should put off going for the course until the contract has been signed.
That said, while you are under no contractual obligation to return the money, the right thing for you to do is to refund the money that they spent on you.
Besides, the company can take you to court if you refuse to pay, and they can win.... just that they'll have a harder time convincing the judge since there was nothing in black and white.
About the withholding of pay, if there's a clause in your employment contract that allows your employer to subtract your pay for situations like this.... then don't count on the MOM to help you.
I need to correct some mistakes
1) u don't always need black and white to convince judge, oral contracts are just as binding as written contracts.
2) Section 26 of Employment Act states that "No unauthorised deductions to be made" except for the few situation (like accomodation) stated in the Act, all other clauses will be VOID. It is very unlikely tat the company can deduct from yr salary.
3) TS does hav a contractual obligation to return the $$. The contract was already concluded when u agreed to the course in exchange for the 2 yrs thingy, although the subsequent contract was not binding
TS, yr greatest mistake is to drop out of the course, because that makes u the breaching party, hence u are LEGALLY BOUND to return the $4k
as for yr salary, don't worry about it, your employer has no rights to withdraw salary -
TS will lose more leh then. That is not what TS hopes for.
TS hope to get back the salary and no need to pay back the $4 k lah.
That is TS's fat hope lah.
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Originally posted by Lee012lee:
TS will lose more leh then. That is not what TS hopes for.
TS hope to get back the salary and no need to pay back the $4 k lah.
That is TS's fat hope lah.
that's the fun thing about law, it cuts both ways
courts tend to protect the employee rather than the employer, not all hope is lost for TS
the critical pt in this case is the period when TS refused to sign the 'new contract'. if the employer had 'threatened' to stop the course fees unless TS signs the contract, then perhaps the tables can be turned in TS's favour
then again, the employer can always argue they were 're-negotiating', not 'threatening'.
lol, at the end of the day, it will depend who has the better lawyer
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Originally posted by newcomer:
Assuming said clause is non existant then the only situation that will play out is my employer taking me to court? They'll still have to pay me my salary under the law, regardless in this case, no?
What are the fees incurred I have to pay if such situation arises? And what are the legal options for me; retain a lawyer, report to MOM, or represent myself(bad idea?)?
Friend, u are in wrong in first place and still want to paint others as wrong? Still want to engage laywer fight with them? I hope u lose yr case jialat jialat , end up yr lawyer fee $10k and yr company lawyer fee $10K and u end up with $20k debt. *clap clap clap* What's wrong people nowadays? Can't even diff right and wrong? -
Originally posted by 00king00:
I need to correct some mistakes
1) u don't always need black and white to convince judge, oral contracts are just as binding as written contracts.
2) Section 26 of Employment Act states that "No unauthorised deductions to be made" except for the few situation (like accomodation) stated in the Act, all other clauses will be VOID. It is very unlikely tat the company can deduct from yr salary.
3) TS does hav a contractual obligation to return the $$. The contract was already concluded when u agreed to the course in exchange for the 2 yrs thingy, although the subsequent contract was not binding
TS, yr greatest mistake is to drop out of the course, because that makes u the breaching party, hence u are LEGALLY BOUND to return the $4k
as for yr salary, don't worry about it, your employer has no rights to withdraw salaryHmm? Okay... I always thought that if it ain't in black and white, then it's harder to play out in court. After all, with no hard proof that an agreement even took place, one side can always claim that there was no agreement at all of any kind, oral or otherwise.
Of course, like I said, a judge can be convinced of the presence of an oral contract, just that it may be harder to do so.
Anyway, bottom line is, TS, you don't expect your company to pay for your school fees and expect them to happily write it all off if you choose to resign. If that truly were the case, I'd happily work for your company, knowing that they would subsidize at least part of my fees even if I choose to resign.
Your company was happy to pay for you because they know that you would use the qualifications you gain to help them later on after you graduate.
Think about it, man..... is what you're asking for fair to your company?
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Funny, the company will pay without getting you to sign the contract first. Which company har? I ask my son apply.
If there's no contractual agreement, what is there to pay? Besides its only 4k plus. One week workshop can cost 4k plus already.
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Originally posted by CannyOng:
Friend, u are in wrong in first place and still want to paint others as wrong? Still want to engage laywer fight with them? I hope u lose yr case jialat jialat , end up yr lawyer fee $10k and yr company lawyer fee $10K and u end up with $20k debt. *clap clap clap* What's wrong people nowadays? Can't even diff right and wrong?lol, don't be so harsh on TS la, maybe he was really wronged?? but if TS is really wrong, then of course he don't deserve any sympathy
but in an employer - employee situation, i normally sympathise the employee more
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Originally posted by fudgester:
Hmm? Okay... I always thought that if it ain't in black and white, then it's harder to play out in court. After all, with no hard proof that an agreement even took place, one side can always claim that there was no agreement at all of any kind, oral or otherwise.
Of course, like I said, a judge can be convinced of the presence of an oral contract, just that it may be harder to do so.
Anyway, bottom line is, TS, you don't expect your company to pay for your school fees and expect them to happily write it all off if you choose to drop out. If that truly were the case, I'd happily work for your company, knowing that they would subsidize at least part of my fees even if I choose to drop out.
Your company was happy to pay for you because they know that you would use the qualifications you gain to help them later on after you graduate.
Think about it, man..... is what you're asking for fair to your company?
yup, that's definitely a valid point fudgester
but the reality is that u can hardly find a contract where 'everything' is in black n white, that's why we have so many lawsuits
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Originally posted by 00king00:
I need to correct some mistakes
1) u don't always need black and white to convince judge, oral contracts are just as binding as written contracts.
2) Section 26 of Employment Act states that "No unauthorised deductions to be made" except for the few situation (like accomodation) stated in the Act, all other clauses will be VOID. It is very unlikely tat the company can deduct from yr salary.
3) TS does hav a contractual obligation to return the $$. The contract was already concluded when u agreed to the course in exchange for the 2 yrs thingy, although the subsequent contract was not binding
TS, yr greatest mistake is to drop out of the course, because that makes u the breaching party, hence u are LEGALLY BOUND to return the $4k
as for yr salary, don't worry about it, your employer has no rights to withdraw salaryits TS words against the coy's words. think about it, as a judge, its difficult to side unless the evidence are consistent with one side's words, such as the use of recording equipment. to prevent making any wrong decisions, i think judges will omit these out of the equation.