After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Mrlimkopi @ Fri, 30 May 2008 09:25:09 +0800

Mrlimkopi — Fri, 30 May 2008 09:25:09 +0800

Originally posted by Sumone3:

To reply to you, I choose not to go into detail what Christianity is about. For one thing, even among Christians the Christian experience is different. Not just with Christians, but with people in general. You can have different experiences and even different levels depending on who you meet, where you meet and even when you meet.

I believe God has more than one side to him as well, as like how our own fathers on earth have more than just one side to them. God is not a tool that you summon or some hack you turn on in a game just so that everything goes the way exactly how you want it.

God didn't promise that there won't be rainy days or hard times. God didn't promise everything will be smooth sailing. In fact, sometimes for his sake it gets harder. God didn't promise he'll do exactly what you want, but if you let him he will want the best and allow the best for you.

Believing in Christ doesn't have to be just about going to hell, but also knowing and accepting someone was willing to sacrifice himself for you and you are acknowledging his love and care for you. I'm not asking you to become a believer, but personally, it doesn't have to be all about fear of hell.

Also, the thing about doing good while on earth, I believe we will get rewards based on our deeds. But our deeds can also be about what we want for the other person, or that we know we do will bring a smile to God's face. Like a child who sometimes does something just so that the mother will smile, not in return for something like a cookie or a sweet, but just a simple smile knowing someone you love is pleased with you.

On the other hand, sometimes not doing wrong is because you don't want to see the other person hurt, and not so much about worry how the person will take action against you.

One thing I can tell you is that Christianity is more than just about heaven and hell. And miracles don't always have to be physical in nature.

I agree with you................and hope more will realised this.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Hello Kitty @ Thu, 29 May 2008 23:03:03 +0800

Hello Kitty — Thu, 29 May 2008 23:03:03 +0800

if u duno, u can ask me.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by noahnoah @ Thu, 29 May 2008 22:54:51 +0800

noahnoah — Thu, 29 May 2008 22:54:51 +0800

actually till now i also dun know much about God

sometimes i wonder waht is he doing also lol

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Sumone3 @ Wed, 28 May 2008 03:11:52 +0800

Sumone3 — Wed, 28 May 2008 03:11:52 +0800

Originally posted by Mrlimkopi:

I think, that's the biggest problem. When someone goes there because they want to know God, the end up knowing a different "God". One that is great and loving because he will give you abundance of blessing when you tithe. Testimonies are mostly based on money.....

Tithe becomes an investment and the more your invest, the higher is the rate of return.

By the way, is tithe really enforceable on christians?

What about the other aspect of being a christian? It has taken a back seat as all I know tell me to beilive in God so that I will be saved, believe that "Daddy" wants me to reward his childeren with a rich (in terms of money) life, trust "Daddy" and never worry again, relax and ejoy..... The problems of other people is not our concern, "Daddy" will take care of that - why worry or bother? We can't do anything.....leave that to God.

Everyday, they try to evangelise by saying that God is so loving that we will be saved if we believe in Him - if not will go hell. When you believe and tithe, "Daddy" will reward you...... if you don't get rewarded - your faith is not strong enough.

People with such mentality tends to leave the church when chips are down thinking God is not with them. Most end up with a with negative feeling about christianity because of the wrong "impression".

Is that what christianity is about?

To reply to you, I choose not to go into detail what Christianity is about. For one thing, even among Christians the Christian experience is different. Not just with Christians, but with people in general. You can have different experiences and even different levels depending on who you meet, where you meet and even when you meet.

I believe God has more than one side to him as well, as like how our own fathers on earth have more than just one side to them. God is not a tool that you summon or some hack you turn on in a game just so that everything goes the way exactly how you want it.

God didn't promise that there won't be rainy days or hard times. God didn't promise everything will be smooth sailing. In fact, sometimes for his sake it gets harder. God didn't promise he'll do exactly what you want, but if you let him he will want the best and allow the best for you.

Believing in Christ doesn't have to be just about going to hell, but also knowing and accepting someone was willing to sacrifice himself for you and you are acknowledging his love and care for you. I'm not asking you to become a believer, but personally, it doesn't have to be all about fear of hell.

Also, the thing about doing good while on earth, I believe we will get rewards based on our deeds. But our deeds can also be about what we want for the other person, or that we know we do will bring a smile to God's face. Like a child who sometimes does something just so that the mother will smile, not in return for something like a cookie or a sweet, but just a simple smile knowing someone you love is pleased with you.

On the other hand, sometimes not doing wrong is because you don't want to see the other person hurt, and not so much about worry how the person will take action against you.

One thing I can tell you is that Christianity is more than just about heaven and hell. And miracles don't always have to be physical in nature.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by nehpyh @ Tue, 27 May 2008 10:18:56 +0800

nehpyh — Tue, 27 May 2008 10:18:56 +0800

Why build when you can buy?!!! Just buy over Ion by 2011 loh....the the whole Singapore can flock there shop shop pray pray and use the car park and free toilets...kekekek

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Mrlimkopi @ Tue, 27 May 2008 10:15:43 +0800

Mrlimkopi — Tue, 27 May 2008 10:15:43 +0800

Originally posted by Sumone3:

Actually, just to add, a lot of followers mentality when they go a particular megachurch is how much more God will reward them when they put in financially into the church or the organisation.

Doing your part for God and for church shouldn't just be about money but also time and effort. Something I need to admit I got to work on.

And a lot of these followers think God will reward them financially many times over what they put in. This is also because of what the church leaders preach and the kind of stories they keep sharing over and over again. A case of misrepresentation perhaps?

Another problem is how some people in megachurches get so caught up in the action, the worship that it becomes their priority and they forget their aims, their roots.

I attended one of the mega churches I think 3 or 4 times over a period of 3 or 4 years, each time the service was always about prosperity gospel and about building great fanciful buildings.

I think, that's the biggest problem. When someone goes there because they want to know God, the end up knowing a different "God". One that is great and loving because he will give you abundance of blessing when you tithe. Testimonies are mostly based on money.....

Tithe becomes an investment and the more your invest, the higher is the rate of return.

By the way, is tithe really enforceable on christians?

What about the other aspect of being a christian? It has taken a back seat as all I know tell me to beilive in God so that I will be saved, believe that "Daddy" wants me to reward his childeren with a rich (in terms of money) life, trust "Daddy" and never worry again, relax and ejoy..... The problems of other people is not our concern, "Daddy" will take care of that - why worry or bother? We can't do anything.....leave that to God.

Everyday, they try to evangelise by saying that God is so loving that we will be saved if we believe in Him - if not will go hell. When you believe and tithe, "Daddy" will reward you...... if you don't get rewarded - your faith is not strong enough.

People with such mentality tends to leave the church when chips are down thinking God is not with them. Most end up with a with negative feeling about christianity because of the wrong "impression".

Is that what christianity is about?

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Sumone3 @ Tue, 27 May 2008 00:42:24 +0800

Sumone3 — Tue, 27 May 2008 00:42:24 +0800

Another thing I can't agree with is the overly zealous sense of recruitment. Sometimes it's so intense to the point of trying to get other already settled Christians to join their church.

Seriously, what is the deal? Shouldn't one be happy your friend is in a church and growing spiritually? Why disrupt him/her and have been start all over again?

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Sumone3 @ Tue, 27 May 2008 00:40:42 +0800

Sumone3 — Tue, 27 May 2008 00:40:42 +0800

Actually, just to add, a lot of followers mentality when they go a particular megachurch is how much more God will reward them when they put in financially into the church or the organisation.

Doing your part for God and for church shouldn't just be about money but also time and effort. Something I need to admit I got to work on.

And a lot of these followers think God will reward them financially many times over what they put in. This is also because of what the church leaders preach and the kind of stories they keep sharing over and over again. A case of misrepresentation perhaps?

Another problem is how some people in megachurches get so caught up in the action, the worship that it becomes their priority and they forget their aims, their roots.

I attended one of the mega churches I think 3 or 4 times over a period of 3 or 4 years, each time the service was always about prosperity gospel and about building great fanciful buildings.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by domonkassyu @ Mon, 26 May 2008 11:46:58 +0800

domonkassyu — Mon, 26 May 2008 11:46:58 +0800

a CHC member once asked me, " so how do you think of our church?"

i answered that it was as magnificent as the temples in Christ's day. except i didnt continue to say that Christ went on to drive the merchants,temple prostitudes and such out of his daddy's place.

so go on ahead all megachurches and pastor superstars to go ahead and build their temples. the ultimate temple has already being built 2000+ years ago in 3 days. what mordern churches need now is a simple and formal place for true worship. not some kinda super mall

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Hello Kitty @ Sun, 04 May 2008 15:45:25 +0800

Hello Kitty — Sun, 04 May 2008 15:45:25 +0800

yesh.

me is oways rite.

they too extreme in preachin & praisin the lord liao.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Mimmy @ Sun, 04 May 2008 11:53:16 +0800

Mimmy — Sun, 04 May 2008 11:53:16 +0800

I agree with both of you.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Mrlimkopi @ Sun, 04 May 2008 11:34:59 +0800

Mrlimkopi — Sun, 04 May 2008 11:34:59 +0800

I agree with you because I have friends there - can see before and after....

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Hello Kitty @ Sat, 03 May 2008 22:41:10 +0800

Hello Kitty — Sat, 03 May 2008 22:41:10 +0800

new creation members beri scary eben outside the church.

they lealli are way over the top le.

we tink they r blainwashed liao.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Icemoon @ Sat, 03 May 2008 22:39:39 +0800

Icemoon — Sat, 03 May 2008 22:39:39 +0800

Originally posted by Durotar:

Oh I see. So you've been to those churches before?

If you mean attending their services, yes.

But never joined them as a member.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Durotar @ Sat, 03 May 2008 22:25:00 +0800

Durotar — Sat, 03 May 2008 22:25:00 +0800

Originally posted by Icemoon:

The aim is to stumble people. Tongue in cheek.

Like many other things, the focus on money may detract people away from God. Look how it has steered public discussion on those churches. Discussion is almost always on their "opulent" lifestyle. Non believers see liao also shake their head. How to spread gospel like that?

If you look at Christian overseas missions, some of it look like the big churches are playing Risk. That's right, world dominion. I heard of South Korea churches throwing $$ to entice the locals to pledge allegiance to Christianity.

Oh I see. So you've been to those churches before?

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Icemoon @ Sat, 03 May 2008 22:21:40 +0800

Icemoon — Sat, 03 May 2008 22:21:40 +0800

Originally posted by Durotar:

I'm not saying the megachurches are right or wrong, I'm just wondering about the aim. Say, if someone is getting all the money for themselves, that is quite obviously wrong. But if someone is getting all that money and THEN spending it on missions, giving to the poor, helping the needy...then I don't see a problem with that.

I think it all depends on the goal of doing everything.

The aim is to stumble people. Tongue in cheek.

Like many other things, the focus on money may detract people away from God. Look how it has steered public discussion on those churches. Discussion is almost always on their "opulent" lifestyle. Non believers see liao also shake their head. How to spread gospel like that?

If you look at Christian overseas missions, some of it look like the big churches are playing Risk. That's right, world dominion. I heard of South Korea churches throwing $$ to entice the locals to pledge allegiance to Christianity.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Durotar @ Sat, 03 May 2008 21:50:31 +0800

Durotar — Sat, 03 May 2008 21:50:31 +0800

Originally posted by Mrlimkopi:

Yes, I agree with you. Even if you spend money building churches building, it's ok. But if the only consideration is commercial I.E. to look at returns, then, we need to re-look.

Church is the house of God and the only function should be to serve the community that they are involved in and to spread the Gospel. It should not be run like a private commercial enterprise.

I never see and hear them saying that they are going to build homes or hospice etc...to cater to the poor and needy etc.... I heard of them giving 10% of their collecction to charities but is that all? What happen to the other 90%?

I know that there will be people using the building as justification for making best use of church's money. But really, the collection and such return are going to fund a home, hospice or someone else's lifestyle?

I also wonder why people start churches is this manner too.....if they are really true to wanting to serve, they could have easily serve the church they come from.....or did they disagree so much with their church? Based on what ground?

In any case, if they start their own standalone church, on what do they base their teachings on? Weak to say Bibile unless they can proved that they have credible training. That is why so many people are against such churches because of the teaching - some which are contradicting even their own teachings.

I do suspect the original intention of starting such a church. And I wonder why the pastor do not encourage their congreagation to start on their own church.......just like what they did - in the name of God.

This is not meant to offend anyone but just set my mind thinking....hmmmm

Haha...for your info, I do hear of them building homes overseas, having community services...but once again, not being fully in the know, personally I would refrain from determining their goal.

Me 2 cents'.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Mrlimkopi @ Sat, 03 May 2008 21:01:32 +0800

Mrlimkopi — Sat, 03 May 2008 21:01:32 +0800

Yes, I agree with you. Even if you spend money building churches building, it's ok. But if the only consideration is commercial I.E. to look at returns, then, we need to re-look.

Church is the house of God and the only function should be to serve the community that they are involved in and to spread the Gospel. It should not be run like a private commercial enterprise.

I never see and hear them saying that they are going to build homes or hospice etc...to cater to the poor and needy etc.... I heard of them giving 10% of their collecction to charities but is that all? What happen to the other 90%?

I know that there will be people using the building as justification for making best use of church's money. But really, the collection and such return are going to fund a home, hospice or someone else's lifestyle?

I also wonder why people start churches is this manner too.....if they are really true to wanting to serve, they could have easily serve the church they come from.....or did they disagree so much with their church? Based on what ground?

In any case, if they start their own standalone church, on what do they base their teachings on? Weak to say Bibile unless they can proved that they have credible training. That is why so many people are against such churches because of the teaching - some which are contradicting even their own teachings.

I do suspect the original intention of starting such a church. And I wonder why the pastor do not encourage their congreagation to start on their own church.......just like what they did - in the name of God.

This is not meant to offend anyone but just set my mind thinking....hmmmm

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Durotar @ Sat, 03 May 2008 16:35:19 +0800

Durotar — Sat, 03 May 2008 16:35:19 +0800

I wonder, since everyone is against mega-churches, does anyone actually know the aim of doing all that has been mentioned (building large buildings etc.)? Coz for those of us who don't attend megachurches, I'm pretty sure who can't see the big picture. Kind of like how the Israelites wanted to go back into bondage of Egypt because they couldn't see what God was doing using Moses. And even for those who are in megachurches but not in the loop of things, I think thye won't be clear also.

I'm not saying the megachurches are right or wrong, I'm just wondering about the aim. Say, if someone is getting all the money for themselves, that is quite obviously wrong. But if someone is getting all that money and THEN spending it on missions, giving to the poor, helping the needy...then I don't see a problem with that.

I think it all depends on the goal of doing everything.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by airgrinder @ Fri, 02 May 2008 19:06:26 +0800

airgrinder — Fri, 02 May 2008 19:06:26 +0800

and, pastor no need serve reservist liability. hehe

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by blue_blue @ Fri, 02 May 2008 19:02:23 +0800

blue_blue — Fri, 02 May 2008 19:02:23 +0800

do not take anyone's words' for granted. instead test it against the bible yourself like what the berans(wrong spelling) in acts did

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by escadaraindrops @ Thu, 01 May 2008 19:29:22 +0800

escadaraindrops — Thu, 01 May 2008 19:29:22 +0800

SInce there are so many people already in the church, building a new church area sounds like a good idea. Don't need to spend money on renting (etcetc)

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Mrlimkopi @ Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:15:14 +0800

Mrlimkopi — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:15:14 +0800

Hi Sumone3

The direction of a Church should be in line with God's will - not the congregation. A Church is God's house and the only business to do is God's business.

The best way to honour God is to do God's will and follow his teachings to your best ability. A shining example is Mother Teresa.

Enriching oneself using God's name is not so convincing...... Just my 2 cents worth.

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Sumone3 @ Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:57:19 +0800

Sumone3 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:57:19 +0800

I guess the direction of a church is also rather representative of the mindset of the congregation and what they expect for a church.

There are people who think building grand buildings or grand structures are the way, that it is their testament to God's glory and an outward sign that God is working wonders.

Different manner of honouring God perhaps?

After City Harvest now New creation! replied by Mrlimkopi @ Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:33:27 +0800

Mrlimkopi — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:33:27 +0800

Are these mega churches really brining thousands of people to Christ ? What do they really teach ? They ask people to give them money and the more you give, the more blesshings you get..... What kind of teaching is that ? Money goes to who's pocket ? and God does the work? And how much more can you belittle God by saying he gives you blesshings based on how much you give the church?

If they are serious in wanting to preach the gospel, go join the Church that Christ has build - not start a new one. Join any of the Churches - perhaps, the one he grew up with.

People going to such churches should think again .... and also visit many other Churches (Prostestants or Catholics) and seek the truth. Going to church is to seek a relationship with God and join in a community who believed and pray together.

Not going for a rock concert plus motivational talks (and links back to 1 Bible verse to justify regardless if they are correctly taught) ending with - if you want to know more, you can get the CDs, books etc....

Collecting money to build this and that, starting this production and that business in the name of God is quite misleading.....

It will be nice to see them spending millions building nursing home to care for the sick and needy or schools for the challanged ..... feeding and helping the poor ....

It is not enough just to give 10% of your collection to Charities and getting an award.

It's sad that thousands of people do not see because they are brain-washed right from day 1.

God bless all.

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