Jesus is a Jew replied by domonkassyu @ Mon, 26 May 2008 11:16:43 +0800

domonkassyu — Mon, 26 May 2008 11:16:43 +0800

First I want to start off by saying that I am not trying to cause any trouble by asking the following question.

It is to my understanding that Jesus is a Jew.

Since Christians believe in Jesus, should they not believe in what he believe in? i.e. Jewish faith

How does a person sign up to join the Jewish faith?

yes christ is a jew. By right, judaism must believe in what Christ said and judaism IF they follwed what christ said,they are the ultimate christians.

however....those rabbi in power do not allow some "punk" to unseat their power with some "I'm-the-son-of-God" talk..hence they rejected them as foretold and still waited for the messiah who came and gone.

the whole christianity/judaism seems like a software update.

judaism as version 1.(God of Adam,abraham,david, etc...)

pre roman cath...Ver 1.1

roman cath...ver 1.1.1

protestants...ver1.1.2

any other...Ver so on and so forth kinda thing.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Icemoon @ Sun, 18 May 2008 23:39:17 +0800

Icemoon — Sun, 18 May 2008 23:39:17 +0800

Originally posted by Princess Rose:

For following the 10 commandments,

Heb.8.10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

never say the 10 commandments leh.

Jesus is a Jew replied by 小白脸 @ Sun, 18 May 2008 21:14:24 +0800

小白脸 — Sun, 18 May 2008 21:14:24 +0800

Dear Jesus, forgive them for they know not what they write

Jesus is a Jew replied by Princess Rose @ Sun, 18 May 2008 21:08:20 +0800

Princess Rose — Sun, 18 May 2008 21:08:20 +0800

For following the 10 commandments,

Heb.8.10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Icemoon @ Sun, 18 May 2008 17:51:47 +0800

Icemoon — Sun, 18 May 2008 17:51:47 +0800

Originally posted by malcom:

For your remark that it is better for Christians to follow Rabbinic Judaism, I am not sure about others, I embrace Catholic faith not because it is better for me, but because I believe that it is the truth, and from the truth that I know and believe, I found that it is not what I think better for me that is important, but what God wants is more important.

Mai lai lah .. we all know the real reason. What God wants can be found in the Old Testament. But then nobody wants to burden himself with all the commandments. 10 already buay tahan liao, not to mention 613.

At least Catholics not too bad lah. Rather than forsaking bak kua like the Jews, they go for lesser sacrifice, like forsaking meat or even food every now and then.

Jesus is a Jew replied by malcom @ Sun, 18 May 2008 15:54:58 +0800

malcom — Sun, 18 May 2008 15:54:58 +0800

Originally posted by Creation1656:

How about this commandment: " Remenber the sabbath day and keep it holy." Exodus 20:8 Tanakh JPS. Just ask around, how many christians really observe the sabbath and keep it holy. If what you said is true, don't you think that it is better for Christians to follow the teachings of Rabbinic Judaism? Rabbinic Judaism only obligated gentiles to observe the 7 universal laws of Noah.

Catholic makes worship on Lord's day compulsory, means it is a mortal sin not to go to Church on Sunday (or Saturday evening).
Regarding why we use Sunday instead of Saturday, I also have no answer. It has been discussed and argued by many people, so I don't intend to join the discussion.
Interestingly 7 day week system is used by Jewish and non-Jewish people, and somehow everyone agrees that Jewish's 7th days is Sabbath, and non-Jewish's 7th day is Saturday, and Sunday is agreed also to be the first day of the week.

For your remark that it is better for Christians to follow Rabbinic Judaism, I am not sure about others, I embrace Catholic faith not because it is better for me, but because I believe that it is the truth, and from the truth that I know and believe, I found that it is not what I think better for me that is important, but what God wants is more important.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Icemoon @ Sun, 18 May 2008 10:05:24 +0800

Icemoon — Sun, 18 May 2008 10:05:24 +0800

Originally posted by Creation1656:

How about this commandment: " Remenber the sabbath day and keep it holy." Exodus 20:8 Tanakh JPS. Just ask around, how many christians really observe the sabbath and keep it holy

Actually it doesn't really matter, isn't it?

No matter how they argue about being Abraham's spiritual descendant, as long they have not converted to become a Jew, they are not obligated to follow the Jewish commandments.

Christians are truly Abraham's spiritual descendants. If you read the Jewish tradition, Abraham was the first evangelist for monotheism. So whoever knows God from him or his descendants can be considered his spiritual descendants.

Look at the issue from the Jewish perspective. It doesn't really matter.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Icemoon @ Sun, 18 May 2008 09:57:18 +0800

Icemoon — Sun, 18 May 2008 09:57:18 +0800

Originally posted by malcom:

For example of the dispute, read Mat 19:3-12

Interesting. I could write about this some other time. Thanks.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Icemoon @ Sun, 18 May 2008 09:48:52 +0800

Icemoon — Sun, 18 May 2008 09:48:52 +0800

Originally posted by malcom:

Yes I agree that they should sing the same tune as all the message is from God the Trinity. As you read through the bible, you will find that it is not always the case. The prophets are humans like us, as compare to Jesus who is the Word of God, sometime also influence by human judgment, or pressure. In case there is any dispute, as Christians we should know which one to follow first.

Unorthodox doctrine.

Since when prophets speak prophetically not the Word of God?

Jesus is a Jew replied by Icemoon @ Sun, 18 May 2008 09:47:46 +0800

Icemoon — Sun, 18 May 2008 09:47:46 +0800

Originally posted by malcom:

Who do you mean by Hebrews? Jewish people never acknowledge Jesus as God, or prophet, certainly not messiah, until today.

I mean the Book of Hebrews. That Jesus is the final prophet/revelation should be clear to those who have read it. First chapter somemore leh.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Creation1656 @ Sun, 18 May 2008 07:51:34 +0800

Creation1656 — Sun, 18 May 2008 07:51:34 +0800

Originally posted by malcom:

Christians need to follow 10 commandments, I think it is in catecheism of Catholic church. We are in mortal sin when we violate 10 commandments. Souls of those who die in mortal sin will descend to hell.

How about this commandment: " Remenber the sabbath day and keep it holy." Exodus 20:8 Tanakh JPS. Just ask around, how many christians really observe the sabbath and keep it holy. If what you said is true, don't you think that it is better for Christians to follow the teachings of Rabbinic Judaism? Rabbinic Judaism only obligated gentiles to observe the 7 universal laws of Noah.

Jesus is a Jew replied by malcom @ Sun, 18 May 2008 01:56:27 +0800

malcom — Sun, 18 May 2008 01:56:27 +0800

Originally posted by Icemoon:

Your statements are misleading as well.

Where did you gather that Christians have the duty to follow the 10 commandments?

And the rationale of observing the hundreds of laws are not as what you wrote, about hygience, health and such, though they may be peripheral reasons. The Old Testament DOES record down some of the rationale.

Cheers.

Christians need to follow 10 commandments, I think it is in catecheism of Catholic church. We are in mortal sin when we violate 10 commandments. Souls of those who die in mortal sin will descend to hell.

Jesus is a Jew replied by malcom @ Sun, 18 May 2008 01:45:52 +0800

malcom — Sun, 18 May 2008 01:45:52 +0800

Originally posted by Icemoon:

Your statement is misleading.

Shouldn't Jesus sing the same tune as the prophets in the Old Testament? And Hebrews does present Him as the final revelation/last prophet. So there shouldn't be a case where there is some kind of dispute and His decision prevails and overrides the prophets of old.

Yes I agree that they should sing the same tune as all the message is from God the Trinity. As you read through the bible, you will find that it is not always the case. The prophets are humans like us, as compare to Jesus who is the Word of God, sometime also influence by human judgment, or pressure. In case there is any dispute, as Christians we should know which one to follow first.

For example of the dispute, read Mat 19:3-12

Who do you mean by Hebrews? Jewish people never acknowledge Jesus as God, or prophet, certainly not messiah, until today.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Icemoon @ Fri, 16 May 2008 23:46:58 +0800

Icemoon — Fri, 16 May 2008 23:46:58 +0800

Originally posted by malcom:

Yes, the covenant (contract) God made with the Israelite found in Torah (Judaism Bible).

The present day Judaism, is actually not only have Torah as their bible, but also Talmud.

I heard Talmud is... hmm... I think you better find out yourself especially if you are considering joining Judaism.

Heh, you obviously dunno the layers of wisdom lying in the Talmud and the works of the sages and commentators.

It is easy to brush away the Talmud because you are not a Jew. Similarly those who are not Muslim will scratch their head why is there a Hadith. And Catholics are accused of adding on to the bible with their Sacred Tradition.

Familiar trend isn't it? :P

Jesus is a Jew replied by Icemoon @ Fri, 16 May 2008 23:31:06 +0800

Icemoon — Fri, 16 May 2008 23:31:06 +0800

Originally posted by Princess Rose:

What I know is that the Jews are our spiritual ancestors. The only part of Judaism that Christians have the duty to follow are the ten commandments. While we do not observe the hundreds of laws pertaining to food , clothing etc, I think it's interesting to know the rationale of doing it, like circumcision? It helps to minimize the bacteria living in the fold. Or the dietry laws...the "unclean" meats are really not healthy for the human body although they taste nice.

Your statements are misleading as well.

Where did you gather that Christians have the duty to follow the 10 commandments?

And the rationale of observing the hundreds of laws are not as what you wrote, about hygience, health and such, though they may be peripheral reasons. The Old Testament DOES record down some of the rationale.

Cheers.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Icemoon @ Fri, 16 May 2008 23:21:43 +0800

Icemoon — Fri, 16 May 2008 23:21:43 +0800

Originally posted by malcom:

We Christians belive that Jesus Christ is God of the Trinity, that is why we should follow what He says first, then the old covenant (Judaism). He definitely has more authority than those prophets in the old covenant (Judaism).

Your statement is misleading.

Shouldn't Jesus sing the same tune as the prophets in the Old Testament? And Hebrews does present Him as the final revelation/last prophet. So there shouldn't be a case where there is some kind of dispute and His decision prevails and overrides the prophets of old.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Creation1656 @ Fri, 16 May 2008 10:14:43 +0800

Creation1656 — Fri, 16 May 2008 10:14:43 +0800

Originally posted by ChiBet:

First I want to start off by saying that I am not trying to cause any trouble by asking the following question.

It is to my understanding that Jesus is a Jew.

Since Christians believe in Jesus, should they not believe in what he believe in? i.e. Jewish faith

How does a person sign up to join the Jewish faith?

You can believe in the Jewish faith without becoming a "Jew" or converting to Judaism. Append below is the statement of faith by gentile believers:

B’nei Noah Statement of Faith

The beliefs of B’nei Noah align with the Thirteen Principles laid out by Maimonides as the fundamentals of Jewish faith.

We believe with perfect faith the G-d is the Creator and Ruler of all things. He alone has made, does make, and will make all things.
We believe with perfect faith that G-d is ONE. There is no unity that is in any way like His. He alone is our G-d — He was, He is, and He will be.
We believe with perfect faith that G-d does not have a body. Physical concepts do no apply to Him. There is nothing whatsoever that resembles Him at all.
We believe with perfect faith that G-d is first and last.
We believe with perfect faith that it is only proper to pray to G-d. One may not pray to anyone or anything else.
We believe with perfect faith that all the words of the prophets are true.
We believe with perfect faith that the prophecy of Moses is absolutely true. He was the chief of all prophets, both before and after him.
We believe with perfect faith that the entire Torah that we now have is that which was given to Moses

We believe that Israel was given the Torah at Sinai and chosen by G-d to be a “light unto the nations.” As such, they have the authority to teach the Seven Laws of Noah from the Torah to the Gentiles.
We believe with perfect faith that this Torah will not be changed, and that there will never be another Torah given by G-d.
We believe with perfect faith that G-d knows all of Man’s deed and thoughts. It is thus written (Psalm 33:15), “He has molded every heart together, He understands what each one does.”
We believe with perfect faith that G-d rewards those who keep His commandments, and punishes those who transgress His commandments.

These commandments are applicable to those to whom they were given. For the Jews, this means the 613 commandments of the Torah, as applicable to each person -- man or woman, Kohen or Israelite, king or citizen. The commandments to which B'nei Noah are obligated are the Universal Seven Laws of Noah:

1. Birkat Hashem - Do not utter G-d's name in vain, curse G-d or pursue the occult. Genesis 3:1
2. Avodah zarah - Do not worship false gods/idols. Genesis 3:5
3. Gezel - Do not steal or kidnap. Genesis 3:6
4. Shefichat damim - Do not murder. Genesis 4:8
5. Gilui arayot - Do not be sexually immoral (engage in incest, sodomy, bestiality, homosexuality, castration, and adultery) Genesis 6:1-4
6. Dinim - Set up righteous and honest courts and apply fair justice in judging offenders and uphold the principles of the last five. Genesis 6:5-7
7. Ever Min HaChai - Do not eat a part of a live animal. Genesis 9:3-4
We believe with perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah. No matter how long it takes, we will await his coming every day.
We believe with perfect faith that the dead will be brought back to life when G-d wills it to happen.

Vendyl Jones Research Institutes
PO Box 489
Grandview, TX 76050-0489
___________________
vjri@bnainoah.net

May "Hashem" bless you in your quest for truth. Shalom.

Jesus is a Jew replied by dumbdumb! @ Thu, 15 May 2008 22:15:04 +0800

dumbdumb! — Thu, 15 May 2008 22:15:04 +0800

Originally posted by googoomuck:

Chibet is trying to frustrate the Christians.

i think it's alright la. he's a new believer. my dad when he first became a christian nearly joined the mormons. even worse right lol.

hmm. if you believe in Jesus, then you should believe what He said is the truth, and that no one can go to the Father except through Him, and He is the way, the truth and the life. that's one of the things that the jews cannot accept about Jesus. that he is the son of God, and thus they reject him as messiah. in fact, if you believe in Jesus, and His words as truth, you'll know that He gave a parable that the jews will be cast out and the gentiles will be accepted instead.

Jesus is a Jew replied by googoomuck @ Thu, 15 May 2008 21:54:48 +0800

googoomuck — Thu, 15 May 2008 21:54:48 +0800

Chibet is trying to frustrate the Christians.

Jesus is a Jew replied by ChiBet @ Thu, 15 May 2008 11:46:05 +0800

ChiBet — Thu, 15 May 2008 11:46:05 +0800

Originally posted by malcom:

Yes, the covenant (contract) God made with the Israelite found in Torah (Judaism Bible).

The present day Judaism, is actually not only have Torah as their bible, but also Talmud.

I heard Talmud is... hmm... I think you better find out yourself especially if you are considering joining Judaism.

I am not actually considering joining Judaism. I am just curious. Understanding beliefs and reading religious text is kind a of a hobby for me.

Jesus is a Jew replied by malcom @ Wed, 14 May 2008 15:00:31 +0800

malcom — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:00:31 +0800

Originally posted by ChiBet:

Is the old covenant the old testament?

Yes, the covenant (contract) God made with the Israelite found in Torah (Judaism Bible).

The present day Judaism, is actually not only have Torah as their bible, but also Talmud.

I heard Talmud is... hmm... I think you better find out yourself especially if you are considering joining Judaism.

Jesus is a Jew replied by ChiBet @ Wed, 14 May 2008 14:43:49 +0800

ChiBet — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:43:49 +0800

Thanks for you replies. This makes things much more clearer now.

I had no idea that the old testament is Judaism

thanks

Jesus is a Jew replied by Princess Rose @ Wed, 14 May 2008 14:34:51 +0800

Princess Rose — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:34:51 +0800

What I know is that the Jews are our spiritual ancestors. The only part of Judaism that Christians have the duty to follow are the ten commandments. While we do not observe the hundreds of laws pertaining to food , clothing etc, I think it's interesting to know the rationale of doing it, like circumcision? It helps to minimize the bacteria living in the fold. Or the dietry laws...the "unclean" meats are really not healthy for the human body although they taste nice.

Jesus is a Jew replied by Chin Eng @ Wed, 14 May 2008 14:32:21 +0800

Chin Eng — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:32:21 +0800

Originally posted by ChiBet:

Hi Chin Eng

Your answers seems to be a bit angry, as I had said before, I am not trying to stir up any trouble. I just would like to understand more, thats all.

Are you saying that

1 - even though Jesus is born a Jew, he did not believe in/practice the Jewish faith?

2 - the New Testament has alot of examples that Jewish laws should not apply to non-Jewish people?

sorry if i had sounded that way.

the more regular folks here are use to my answers.

1. insomuch as Jesus was a Jew, he lived as a Jew. But he also considered the norms and cultures of the non-Jews and had on various occasions gone beyond the accepted way of life of a Jew. For example, His interaction with the Samaritan woman, and his parable of the good Samaritan is a good example. Jews and the Samaritans do not mix. The Samaritans are considered to be pariahs to a good Jew.

2. if you read Paul's writings, you will find that he even admonished (or tell off) the other church leaders then, that they should not enslave the Gentiles with Jewish laws (which he noted that even the Jews had problem keeping).

Jesus is a Jew replied by Princess Rose @ Wed, 14 May 2008 14:24:55 +0800

Princess Rose — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:24:55 +0800

yes testament=convenant with God

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