http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 en-US 60 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by dragg:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>i doubt it has anything to do with the programs.</p> <p>military training were much more tougher in the past but we dont see as many casualties, at least not of such nature.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Like my oversea friend say - Singapore crazy over aircond !</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>At home - air cond</p> <p>at school - air cond</p> <p>at office - air cond</p> <p>at shopping mall - air cond</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>From young already we created&nbsp;polar bears !!! You ask polar bears to go walk in forest - they all of course die of heat !!!</p> Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:04:46 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8173283 storywolf http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p><strong><span>"Could recent SAF deaths been avoided with portable shock pads?"</span></strong></p> <p><a href= "http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/singaporeseen/viewContent.jsp?id=25511" rel= "nofollow">http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/singaporeseen/viewContent.jsp?id=25511</a></p> Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:21:14 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8173168 QX179R http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>The cause of death of the Recruit is probably different from the OCT.&nbsp; OCT probably&nbsp;will be challenging each other not to refill their water from the streams and finish all checkpoints within a single day. Thus the dangers of dehydration are not fully recognised by these actions and challenges.</p> Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:56:27 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8172730 livspore2006 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>i doubt it has anything to do with the programs.</p> <p>military training were much more tougher in the past but we dont see as many casualties, at least not of such nature.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:44:50 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8172490 dragg http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p><cite class="">Channel NewsAsia - <span>Tuesday, June 17</span></cite></p> <h1 class="">Good for SAF to have regular medical reviews, says MP</h1> <p>SINGAPORE: With regular reviews of its medical protocol, the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) can assure national servicemen and their parents that the teenagers are given a thorough medical check—up before they are enlisted.</p> <p>This is according to MP Michael Palmer, who sits in the Government Parliamentary Committee on Defence and Foreign Affairs.</p> <p>Mr Palmer added that it is also important that the SAF is not complacent when it comes to safety procedures during training.</p> <p>When two SAF servicemen died within two days during training last week, the SAF took an unprecedented move of suspending physical and endurance training activities for three days to review the procedures.</p> <p>Observers say the two deaths are a wake—up call on the importance of adhering to laid—down principles and procedures in national service training.</p> <p>At the same time, Singaporeans have shown that they remain confident in the ability of the SAF to safeguard the country’s security.</p> <p>This is important, said Mr Palmer. "If you lose confidence in the SAF, the regular forces, their morale would be dampened, the national servicemen, their morale would be dampened and people would not want to go for their NS reservist training. So you are going to have a force that is depleted. From the SAF point of view, no commander wants to lose a man. In wartime, yes, but in peacetime no commander wants to lose a man.</p> <p>"So from the SAF’s point of view, every commander would want to make sure that procedures are properly followed and that we have confidence in our commanders and military."</p> <p>He added: "Most of the feedback I get is in terms of timing, in terms of studies and whether they would be able to catch up with their studies after they go and do their national service. So far, parents have not expressed that concern about safety. Overall, my view is people have that confidence and we need to maintain that confidence."</p> <p>The Defence Ministry says the SAF has also received a number of suggestions from the public on safe training procedures. These will be evaluated as part of its on—going process to ensure that training is carried out safely. — CNA/ir</p> Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:35:37 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8171579 QX179R http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by will4:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>There seemed to b more cases of death by cardiac arrest in SAF compared to Police or CD. Manyb parents should consider appealing to the govt to let their</p> <p>son served full time NS in Police or CD as a it is safer.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> you don't chiong sua in PF or CD.</p> <p>and ippt is an important part in saf, less so in PF and CD, where they are more focused on techniques.</p> Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:24:42 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8171527 deathmaster http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>There seemed to b more cases of death by cardiac arrest in SAF compared to Police or CD. Manyb parents should consider appealing to the govt to let their</p> <p>son served full time NS in Police or CD as a it is safer.</p> Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:17:47 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8171357 will4 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong><span class= "">Teo Chee Hean on the deaths of the 2 SAF personnel</span></strong></span></p> <p>Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean says the Singapore Armed Forces is satisfied that all its training procedures are in place and closely adhered to.</p> <p>This comes after its three-day timeout on all physical and endurance training activities ended at 7pm yesterday.</p> <p>Such activities were temporarily suspended following the recent sudden deaths of Officer Cadet Clifton Lam and Recruit Andrew Cheah.</p> <p>Mr Teo says SAF reviewed its training, medical and safety procedures during the time out.</p> <p>"They've completed that, looked at all the procedures and SAF is satisfied the procedures are in place and they are being followed. This three-day timeout has been very useful because it has allowed review of the procedures to make sure they are all there. And it also heightened awareness among the commanders and the individual soldiers themselves on the issues involved in physical endurance training."</p> <p>Meanwhile, SAF has formed two inquiry panels to investigate the two deaths.</p> <p>MINDEF will be working with an independent committee of inquiries chaired by a senior civil servant from another organisation to look into the death of Recruit Cheah - a full time National Serviceman.</p> <p>Meanwhile, a separate committee from MINDEF will investigate the death of Officer Cadet Lam, a regular serviceman.</p> <p>Mr Teo says a coroner's inquiry will also be held to investigate the deaths.</p> <p>"Separately and independently, of course, the coroner's inquiry will proceed and it's held in open court and the coroner will determine the cause of death."</p> <p>Recruit Cheah died after fainting during a two kilometer walk at Pulau Tekong on Tuesday.</p> <p>Officer Cadet Lam, on the other hand, died during jungle training in Brunei the following day. -- 938Live</p> Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:58:57 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8171303 QX179R http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>Just a side note for those who need to undergo the Jungle training in Brunei:</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>The Temburong bunks are notorious for being extremely hot like a sauna during the day time.&nbsp; It would be wise not to stay inside the bunk to rest or wait for exercise but hang around outside especially if u hv free time during late mornings or afternoons.</p> Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:21:33 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8170961 livspore2006 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p><a href= "http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/354283/1/.html" rel= "nofollow">http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/354283/1/.html</a><br /> <br /> Military funeral for pilot cadet Clifton Lam, hundreds bid farewell<br /> By Imelda Saad, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 15 June 2008 1924 hrs</p> <p>&nbsp;<br /> &nbsp;</p> <p>SINGAPORE : Hundreds of friends and family members bade farewell to Second Lieutenant Clifton Lam Jia Hao as he was given a military funeral on Sunday.</p> <p>Lam died on Wednesday while undergoing jungle training in Brunei.</p> <p>It was a send-off befitting the dreams and aspiration of Lam, whose life was cut short so unexpectedly.</p> <p>Friends said Lam had dreamt of being a pilot since he was 13.</p> <p>As a symbolic gesture, the Republic of Singapore Air Force awarded Lam his pilot wings - posthumously.</p> <p>In the send-off at the Mandai Crematorium, his coffin, draped in the national flag, was carried by his brothers-in-arms. And a final volley shattered the peaceful Sunday afternoon in honour of a comrade lost.</p> <p>Family and friends remember Lam for his caring ways.</p> <p>Lin Zhi Sheng, a full-time NSman, said, "Every time I got bullied, he would stand up for me. He was a very good friend..." - CNA/ms</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:53:16 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8168297 eac http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Rockhound:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>y is the media advertising PES status as a fitness status?</p> <p>PES status is a medical status based on the PULHEEMS system</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> yup, even the recruit handbook somewhere IIRC got put that there is a different between physically and medically fit...</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:47:04 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8168282 eac http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>y is the media advertising PES status as a fitness status?</p> <p>PES status is a medical status based on the PULHEEMS system</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:35:18 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8168257 Rockhound http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p><cite class="">Channel NewsAsia - <span>2 hours 23 minutes ago</span></cite></p> <h1 class="">SAF resumes all physical and endurance training activities</h1> <p>SINGAPORE : The Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) has resumed all physical and endurance training activities as of 7pm on Saturday.</p> <p>This follows the completion of a three—day time out on such activities after the deaths of Officer Cadet Clifton Lam and Recruit Andrew Cheah Wei Siong.</p> <p>Cheah died after fainting during a two—kilometre walk at Pulau Tekong on Tuesday, while Lam died on Wednesday while undergoing jungle training in Brunei as a pilot trainee.</p> <p>MINDEF said the SAF has determined that proper procedures are in place, and these are being followed.</p> <p>It added that the SAF has received a number of suggestions from the public, and these will be evaluated as part of its regular process of ensuring that such activities are carried out safely.</p> <p>The SAF medical screening protocol is also subjected to regular professional reviews by a panel of top specialists, including cardiologists. And the most recent review conducted last September found the protocol stringent, and in line with good clinical practice.</p> <p>A coroner’s inquiry will be held into the cause of both deaths.</p> <p>Separately, the SAF will also convene two panel inquiries into the deaths. — CNA/ms</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:01:29 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8168142 QX179R http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>more deaths and a mutiny is imminent</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:29:38 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8168103 ceecookie http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by deathmaster:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>you can schedule it to 2 days. waiting a few more hours extra is safer than risking cardiac for 20 years. (from entering ns to end of OR)</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>problem is that will the pre - ens wanna come back again?</p> <p>some of them don't even turn up for the check ups. not to say 2 day check up.</p> <p>the mentality of the people nowadays are different.</p> <p>no respect to the medics and MOs.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:16:48 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8168088 MidnightK http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by tarutaru:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>In the OCT case I believe he push himself beyond his limit as it's the very end of the course, thus tragedy happened. I think everyone out there should know that different people have different limit level, when you really need a rest do rest.especially when u are in the deep forest of Brunei.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Pushing beyond the limits during training will make one stronger.</p> <p>However, do you think if the OCT will push on if he knew that he would died if he tried too hard? The thing is that, no one knows that, but everyone tries their best during training. And to consider the kind of background he's from before enlistment, it could be easily given the impression that he is a very strong willed fellow.</p> <p>Anyway the sad fact is that he has no way to realise his dream as a pilot now. However, do hope the authorities will genuinely learn some lessons and improve our training safety.</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:50:36 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8168024 yamizi http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by MidnightK:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>the medical checkup + computer test probably takes abt 3 to 4 hours.</p> <p><strong>If the medics do the full body checkup, x-rays and everything, it might take the whole day.</strong></p> <p>Can the pre-enlistees wait? Some complained that it is taking too long.</p> <p>If can't wait, don't complain and ask for more checkups.</p> <p>DECLARE ALL ILLNESSES. The medics will do the special cases if need be.</p> <p>ECG procedures, people might move or jerk during the test. This will affect the readings, if you think it's fun to redo, think again. They have to make sure the pre - en is okay before they proceed to do the test again.</p> <p>Please see beyond the surface, things ain't as easy the way you think it is.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>you can schedule it to 2 days. waiting a few more hours extra is safer than risking cardiac for 20 years. (from entering ns to end of OR)</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:22:03 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8167942 deathmaster http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>In the OCT case I believe he push himself beyond his limit as it's the very end of the course, thus tragedy happened. I think everyone out there should know that different people have different limit level, when you really need a rest do rest.especially when u are in the deep forest of Brunei.</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:07:20 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8167786 tarutaru http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by sinicker:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>my story :<br /> <br /> i was an active athlete in JC, part of the hockey team then.. running 2.4km runs thrice a week &amp; all.<br /> <br /> then i went to CMPB for the medical check-up. on the spot, they gave me PES B. not A coz' underweight a bit.<br /> <br /> a few weeks l8r, they called me to come down again so i did. something was wrong with my ECG &amp; they wanted me to head down to the national heart centre. gave me a Letter Of Instruction so i need not pay for the checks to be done.<br /> <br /> i had an ECG, a 24-hr holter ECG monitor on me &amp; a stress ECG on a treadmill.<br /> <br /> then, i was diagnosed with Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome. PES C9L2. the doctor said i was born w/ it &amp; i shud not even run lest i encounter sudden cardiac arrest &amp; death. i was shocked. i loved running, playing sports &amp; suddenly, no more of all this??<br /> <br /> the cardiologist in the CNA article, Dr Hsu Li Fern, is my cardiologist.<br /> <br /> i went for my catheter ablation in Jan this year. FOC. only paid $10.70 for the entire hospital bill. a clean bill of health i guess!<br /> <br /> so.... are the medical tests adequate enough?? i guess it was for me if i could say that it saved my own life from a disease i could just suddenly die from unknowingly?</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>you're lucky... some ppl only get this kind of thing during exercise</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:34:40 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8167671 sbst275 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>outsource our army la. save the men!</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:13:26 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8167612 alwaysdisturbed http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>To ensure life is more important or to ensure the efficient for a medic to clear an pre-en is more important?</p> <p>Commercialised-concept overrule the basic tenant of treasure one's life?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>sinicker,</p> <p>Good for you to have found out earlier. 5 years ago, my company mate wasn't that lucky.</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 08:15:19 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8167055 yamizi http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>the medical checkup + computer test probably takes abt 3 to 4 hours.</p> <p>If the medics do the full body checkup, x-rays and everything, it might take the whole day.</p> <p>Can the pre-enlistees wait? Some complained that it is taking too long.</p> <p>If can't wait, don't complain and ask for more checkups.</p> <p>DECLARE ALL ILLNESSES. The medics will do the special cases if need be.</p> <p>ECG procedures, people might move or jerk during the test. This will affect the readings, if you think it's fun to redo, think again. They have to make sure the pre - en is okay before they proceed to do the test again.</p> <p>Please see beyond the surface, things ain't as easy the way you think it is.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:55:49 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8166767 MidnightK http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>after we were told of their deaths,all the medics were instructed to practise our 4 man drill</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:30:30 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8166750 Lord_Nazrul http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>after we were told of their deaths,all the medics were instructed to practise our 4 man drill</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:11:31 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8166738 Lord_Nazrul http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726 <p>my story :<br /> <br /> i was an active athlete in JC, part of the hockey team then.. running 2.4km runs thrice a week &amp; all.<br /> <br /> then i went to CMPB for the medical check-up. on the spot, they gave me PES B. not A coz' underweight a bit.<br /> <br /> a few weeks l8r, they called me to come down again so i did. something was wrong with my ECG &amp; they wanted me to head down to the national heart centre. gave me a Letter Of Instruction so i need not pay for the checks to be done.<br /> <br /> i had an ECG, a 24-hr holter ECG monitor on me &amp; a stress ECG on a treadmill.<br /> <br /> then, i was diagnosed with Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome. PES C9L2. the doctor said i was born w/ it &amp; i shud not even run lest i encounter sudden cardiac arrest &amp; death. i was shocked. i loved running, playing sports &amp; suddenly, no more of all this??<br /> <br /> the cardiologist in the CNA article, Dr Hsu Li Fern, is my cardiologist.<br /> <br /> i went for my catheter ablation in Jan this year. FOC. only paid $10.70 for the entire hospital bill. a clean bill of health i guess!<br /> <br /> so.... are the medical tests adequate enough?? i guess it was for me if i could say that it saved my own life from a disease i could just suddenly die from unknowingly?</p> Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:51:13 +0800 www.sgforums.com:1390:320726:8166717 sinicker http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/320726