Originally posted by laurence82:Many of my points? You quoted only two here. Can you be more specific? Perhaps a list will be helpful?
you were requested to prove many of your points, including what are the procedures for such police reports, which part of my posts are theoretical and classroom based and so on
if you cant, you cant, and i really hate it when people divert from issues and go into who and who are clones, they angry or not, personal attacks[/b]
This is obviously a scam, or should I call it a money-game..something like a hyip. The early birds get the $$ but late-comers suffer. Very high risk yet very profitable. Now it's not the time to put in money anymore. Too late. It will be officially reported to be a scam only when the latecomers don't get their returns or capital back and report their case to the authorities.Originally posted by jonzibonzi:AIyo!,
Just show proof that its a scam, otherwise continue quoting people here and there,
NPNT
Where's your proof its a scam? just because they wanna pay more money back to the partners?
Where's your logic...
If two points you cannot handle, what can three or four or a list do?Originally posted by kokov:Many of my points? You quoted only two here. Can you be more specific? Perhaps a list will be helpful?
Originally posted by kokov:In what way we throw flaks?
laurence82 and the_fallen...Anyway, what have you done [b]constructively to expose the scam of sunshine empire besides just throwing your flaks on forums?[/b]
Originally posted by laurence82:Really?
Yeah sure, now we offended you, things get more personal right? [/b]
Perhaps it's a error on my part, but with regards to the other half which I posted, actually be any mlm company, it's mostly of the same tactic used in every company (I mean only those black sheep networkers and each various companies)Originally posted by kokov:Now, I'm really baffled..My company? Did i say i'm from sunshine empire?![]()
Originally posted by kokov:for you a junior member who has yet to proof your words that holds creditability with backup from either Law/Newspapers Articles, don't even question us.
laurence82 and the_fallen...Anyway, what have you done [b]constructively to expose the scam of sunshine empire besides just throwing your flaks on forums?[/b]
Originally posted by the_fallen:
for you a junior member who has yet to proof your words that holds creditability with backup from either Law/Newspapers Articles, don't even question us.
If you can't support your claims.
Making such a comment with nothing to based your opinion on. Than it just brings down your reputation in this forum especially this mlm thread.
[b]Disclaimer:
I have no hard feelings nor look down on junior members posting in thread replies, but for you to make such a claim, you must have some creditability to even pose.
Learn to respect yourself and respect others.
It's only when you learn to respect others, than will others in-turn show their respect to you.
Didn't your upline teach you the basic?
Learn to listen (read in the case of being in a forum) before you comment.[/b]
From the post that you said, ".Anyway, what have you done constructively to expose the scam of sunshine empire besides just throwing your flaks on forums?" if you request to see our constructive sharing of facts, than you must first ask yourself if you did anything constructive first.Originally posted by kokov:well, i guess i'm a junior member because i didn't have the luxury of time to keep posting on forums like you. Did I even insinuate that you have to respect me? my upline? I'm not even in mlm!
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erm, how true is your word ^^"?how can we prove that what you said is true? btw, when i promote this product to you, and i will get some commission if u bought it, how interesting is it ??Originally posted by mrleech:I have something interesting to share. Went down to Sunshine Empire on my own to explore the place. The entire 7th floor of HDB Hub is occupied by the whole group of companies. Decor is fine, kinda interesting if you ask me.
Spoke to some Business Development Manager and got him to present the marketing plan to me. He did not go much into the commission and overridding scheme to me. He was sharing the membership and partnership thingy to me.
He shared with me how the company operates, how they use $$$ "pumped" in to pay the partners back; that the $$$ is used to invest into Emcom and then generate some returns in a monthly fashion. By being a partner, you are somewhat like a 'sleeping partner' in their business. Then depending on the company's total turnover, you get a certain payout.
I then enquired on the Bizfile for EGA. Nothing interesting to highlight. Just that I do not see any names common to SE and Emcom. Strange for a company that claims that the list of companies are their subsidiaries. Another point highlighted was NOP International. The Manager claims that EGA bought over NOP. I mentioned that I thought they were 'finished'. He then said that it is the Malaysia one.
I then asked how can NTI be presented in the same light as SE and EGA together with HBCI. NTI has renamed themselves to SE and likewise for HBCI to EGA. His reply to me was that he is not interested with such details.
In the company profile, Bluengine was said to have been involved with the wireless project at Raffles City. However, I did a check on the net and found the following. Please refer to http://www.starhub.com/portal/site/HubVillage/menuitem.22faa9fe3b3b77b7eaaf3b608324a5a0/?vgnextoid=b56eb57c8fbef010VgnVCM100000464114acRCRD#bluengine. It shows the list of locations where they cooperated with Starhub on the wireless implementation. Likewise for http://www.wireless-world.com.sg/wireless/download/special_download/Global%20Hotspot%20Listing_3.pdf, a list of the locations of wireless hotspots. Then again, the list may be outdated.
Thereafter, I enquired on the membership and commission issue. I was told that each member that I bring in, I would be able to get some commission for it. Interesting concept it is.
Due to privacy issues, I will not devulge the name of the Manager that I spoke to.
Well, no matter how busy i am, when i encounter people like you, spending 1-2mins checking out this forum is perfectly fine with me.Originally posted by the_fallen:If you said you didn't have the luxury of time, than you will not be here replying to our comments daily already. Isn't it ironic that you said you have no time yet can follow up on the posting and replies in this thread?
Lol.
Originally posted by the_fallen:You talking about yourself?
From the post that you said, ".Anyway, what have you done constructively to expose the scam of sunshine empire besides just throwing your flaks on forums?" if you request to see our constructive sharing of facts, than [b]you must first ask yourself if you did anything constructive first.[/b]
Haha, its up to you to believe it. I cant force you to believe every word I say anyway. However, there are facts that to be believed as they can be proven. For example, the directors of EGA. None of them owns SE or Emcom. How can that be if SE and Emcom are subsidiaries of EGA?Originally posted by mihiro:erm, how true is your word ^^"?how can we prove that what you said is true? btw, when i promote this product to you, and i will get some commission if u bought it, how interesting is it ??
Originally posted by the_fallen:
I know this reply is a bit late, but anyway, i just take a 3rd look and found this comment with some important points which maybe you can pick up something here. Here goes.
Now he only have 2 left from the previous large group of followers.
And you said, none are being respected back in the past, so they of course didn't know the REAL TOP SECRETS, if they found out the real reasons, then they would already have left already. (Listening to a 1-sided story is just bias, u need to listen to 2 sides; but I doubt u have the chance)
Back in his prime, he's followers goes as high as more than 2 handful of people in case you don't know. But when now he only is left with 2? Take note that all those who left; they were all at least a meddium 5-digit income earners years back when they are still selling Products!!
Sigh.. Fallen, please grab hold of yourself. I said 2 OF MY FRIENDS, when did I ever say he LEFT WITH 2 followers. Anybody here knows that he still has more than 2 handful of people whom has been with him a few yrs or more. Futhermore, at least I hear from someone who were from his pasts, whom personally exeprience his goodwill and kindness, is that better than ASSUMING that there is "REAL TOP SECRETS" from someone who maybe also is having a 1 sided assumption. I don't mean to be sacarstic or what but if you do know something from THE OTHER SIDE, or THE REAL TOP SECRET, why not you share with us here? How long have you known him personally? Spoke to him? Worked with him on top? And base on what do you want us to believe you that there is the exsistance of "OTHER TOP SECRET"?
Why can't he change back to the practical way of selling products?
Coz all businesses will conduct a background profile check on the partner first before co-operating with the partner. Thus he can only take the low-end products. (Businesses by which I mean those large enterprises with millions nearing billlions' revenue generated from the sales.
Just look at the products, not keeping up to trend, in business wise, it's lacks an appeal to attract customers.
Which product are you talking about that is not up to trend? what do you know about his current business plans and model? Or even products? If you know that means you are saying ONLINE SHOPPING is not up to trend?? Please explain cos I don't understand what you refering to. Do you know that he has combined his EMALL with www.umbuy.com and is currently in the process of building a EMALL with the liikes of AMAZON.COM? So if doing business online, doing wireless telcom is outdated and lacks appeal, I really dunno is it you who are behind the trend or SC? I apologies again for sounding sacras but you need to be clearer with your points.
Even he's right hand man, the person (course instructor) who taught PSC is with another company. He already left in 2005, and took a long break to recover from his health conditions.
If you know James.P background, then you would already have noticed, all his top leaders, those right & left hand man before 2005 in NTI have already left him. I'm talking about those people who really know their stuffs.
I'm not taking Jackie into consideration since he only start to gain his recognition in 05 when he became RSD, I'm talking about all his Uplines above.
You know why I'm able to know so much, and you guys can't even win me in terms of knowledge? Because I know the weakness in the education being taught inside. -Brush up on the foundation; if you know what i mean.
Ok, I glad I'm talking to someone who knows alot and probably alot more than me. So you were with him before and you knew all the managers and you personally suffer from the company and him before that's why you know so much? Or is it because "you know the weakness in the education being taught inside" that's where you are putting up your points from?
BTW: I highlighted the key point I hope u still is around to read this comment.[/b]
Yeah. The eventual decision still lies in your hands. Do anything, but dun get caught.Originally posted by Blue_jamzz:Seems like there are some good points raised with regards to the income tax portion. I don't know about how the other groups work, but in our grouping session of a mixture of young and old ppl, my up line did advise us to declare income tax once you are starting to get annually over 30k from this avenue. Anyway, he advise that its not worth not declaring as the amount we left after paying the tax is still a considerably good amt. But then again, its still up to the individual decision to declare.
don't try to divert the attention or throw the ball back to me, u asked me first, and i ask you back if you did done anything constructive in the first place.Originally posted by kokov:You talking about yourself?![]()
For your information:Originally posted by Blue_jamzz:Sigh.. Fallen, please grab hold of yourself. I said 2 OF MY FRIENDS, when did I ever say he LEFT WITH 2 followers. Anybody here knows that he still has more than 2 handful of people whom has been with him a few yrs or more. Futhermore, at least I hear from someone who were from his pasts, whom personally exeprience his goodwill and kindness, is that better than ASSUMING that there is "REAL TOP SECRETS" from someone who maybe also is having a 1 sided assumption. I don't mean to be sacarstic or what but if you do know something from THE OTHER SIDE, or THE REAL TOP SECRET, why not you share with us here? How long have you known him personally? Spoke to him? Worked with him on top? And base on what do you want us to believe you that there is the exsistance of "OTHER TOP SECRET"?
For your information:Originally posted by Blue_jamzz:Which product are you talking about that is not up to trend? what do you know about his current business plans and model? Or even products? If you know that means you are saying ONLINE SHOPPING is not up to trend?? Please explain cos I don't understand what you refering to. Do you know that he has combined his EMALL with www.umbuy.com and is currently in the process of building a EMALL with the liikes of AMAZON.COM? So if doing business online, doing wireless telcom is outdated and lacks appeal, I really dunno is it you who are behind the trend or SC? I apologies again for sounding sacras but you need to be clearer with your points.
YES; I know a Handful of managers. (I didn't say all, so don't put words into my words okay?)Originally posted by Blue_jamzz:Ok, I glad I'm talking to someone who knows alot and probably alot more than me. So you were with him before and you knew all the managers and you personally suffer from the company and him before that's why you know so much?
YES, I am also being trained by him too, but back than I was trained to do sales which is still considered legal and proper business, rather than the current corrupted training.Originally posted by Blue_jamzz:Or is it because "you know the weakness in the education being taught inside" that's where you are putting up your points from?
Originally posted by Blue_jamzz:Forum discussions are only for those basic rookies who knows nothing and also for general discussions, for details, we'll meet and discuss, as it's considered advance theory and knowledge which when I share with rookies, they will not catch the essence of my message.
P.S I'm still around and I have recieved your e-mail to meet. You seems abit agitated when replying me and now in this reply you try to put words in my reply? Hey take care and don't get too engross in this, chill out and hope we can more forum discussion here![]()
Well said. That's what I call a great posting.Originally posted by MamaRos:I feel that those of you who have insider information on the 'crook MLM companies' should write in to DSAS and request for a meeting with the committee members to address this issue of bad hats spoiling the erthswhile good name of genuine, legitimate MLm companies in the market.
I believe with all the evidences you hold, DSAS will appreciate your assistance in clamping down the rascals with help from CASE and MTI.
With these organizations working hand-in-hand with you, the media will definitely do a coverage and the public will then be alerted and forewarned.
While the forum is great for debate, the main concern is the innocent and ignorant people of scam companies camouflaging as MLM companies.
Who says DSAS/CASE/MTI will not act against errant scam companies disguised as MLM companies?Originally posted by laurence82:Theoretically, advice is go to DSAS, CAD, MTI etc
Real experience says, hard
I know of many who go to CAD or CASE, not just for NTI issue, but for other MLM companies
their cases possess different level of strength, some rely merely on their signed contracts for evidences
the response from police seems to be lukewarm, we will will investigate on these, thank you for your time blah blah
the cases will either be classified as breach of contract, victim to file civil suit instead, not enough evidence, or referral to Small Claims Tribunal, and the grandaddy of response from various people i know is that the MLM Act is inadequate to classify even a disguised pyramid scheme as a scam
the obvious part is the list of conditions which exempt a business from being classified as a pyramid scheme, hence the name of the Act being Exclusion Order
eg, if a company has a product, does it mean its not a pyramid scam? the term i always used to describe company who simply use ambigious, shady, cheap product or investment scheme is 'disguised pyramid scheme', obviously the law cannot handle such companies
the law is not on our side, CASE also cannot mediate if the company chose not to go through them..btw, CASE and DSAS are NOT authorities, hence you can point the middle finger at them and they can do nuts about anything
this is the reality for many MLM victims, potential victims or in fact for the society at large
not i am suggesting that you dont complain to DSAS to CASE, or not report to police
the major issue is that people do not know the dilemma faced by the police, or the weaknesses of CASE and DSAS, or the fact these two organisations are societies or associations, not authorities
hence, no single MLM company has been charged for breaching this Act
are there really no pyramid scam, or the pyramid scams are that good in disguising, or just simply the law and enforcement not on our side? you guys decide
its particularly annoying, from the perspective of the last pt, coz these scammers can now say 'police no catch, so we are clean'
yeah i know, someone will say these are theoretical again![]()
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