http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=283156&page=3
Sub-topic continue from the above thread.

What constitute a lustful thought? I believe that it is the chemical and electrical reactions from the human brain that creates the effect of lusting. Remove the portions of the brain that creates the chemical and electrical effect and lust will be permenantly removed. That is the only fool-proof way never to again lust due to concious or unconcious action.

Lust is empty and is not stored or hiding anywhere. It arises due to the aggregation of causes and conditions. If there is still defilements, one will not overcome it even in death.

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Lust is empty and is not stored or hiding anywhere. It arises due to the aggregation of causes and conditions. If there is still defilements, one will not overcome it even in death.

Lust arises due to electro-chemical responses in the brain, so enough said as there's no proof from you.

Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

Lust arises due to electro-chemical responses in the brain, so enough said as there's no proof from you.

There is no way to proof that lust is NOT conditioned arising and empty.

And also erroneous to reduce mind to brain waves, as I have posted many articles on that before.

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

There is no way to proof that lust is NOT conditioned arising and empty.

And also erroneous to reduce mind to brain waves, as I have posted many articles on that before.

It is also erroneous that you think without your brain.

I think one cannot get rid of lust completely but perhaps the key is to control it. A major question would be what does lust do to you.

Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

[url]What constitute a lustful thought? I believe that it is the chemical and electrical reactions from the human brain that creates the effect of lusting. Remove the portions of the brain that creates the chemical and electrical effect and lust will be permenantly removed. That is the only fool-proof way never to again lust due to concious or unconcious action.

In my opinion, the arising of lust consist of both physical aspect and spiritual aspect, they are inter-influencing.
The physical aspect which include the neuro, hormone, electric pulse and organ only acts as a stimulator that trigger the arising of lust on us.
So does a baby has lust? yes, of course, but because his physical condition is not complete yet so there is no arising of lust in him.

There is this spiritual lust (mind) that a baby as well as all other unenlightened beings has.
When the lust-causing object get in contact with our physical part for example seeing pretty girl sitting opposite you, this signal will then send to our mind and trigger the arise of lust.
It can also come from different direction, meaning there is no pretty girl there, but somehow our mind initiate the thinking of a pretty girl. This will then cause our body to react accordingly.

So the question is what if we get rid of this physical layer of lust mainly the chemical and electrical pulse, we are still a lustful and unenlightened person.
Due to the loss of the physical aspect of the lust, it will be very difficult if not impossible to get rid of our spiritual/mental lust.
In fact, the changes to our body in a unnatural way will cause even more harm.

if it come from the mind of habit, it need to be severed with the mind of discipline.
from Buddhism's pov, Buddha had giving the best and powerful treatment, and it's PRECEPT.

if, one cannot quit any habit all at once. can u refrain on certain special occassion/dates, like 1st and 15th of the lunar dates?
Precept is indeed powerful. even if reborn in lower realms, precept can help one liberate from lower realms. maybe u'll suffering during normal dates, but when it comes to 1st and 15th, u'll feel liberated per se!

---

or maybe you can try the "de-automatization" meditation.
http://www.oshoworld.com/onlinemag/may2002/htm/meditation.asp
(note: it might not be ur regular Buddhist website, but i think the meditation method is true)

/\

Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

It is also erroneous that you think without your brain.

Brain is a vital organ so we need it to function. Just that we cannot reduce consciousness to brain.

Do you blame the knife you use to create karma?

Do you blame the buhdda when the day you bought it, something bad happen?

Do you do something because something wants you to do so or you want to do it.

You have a choice, i have been struggling with lust since like....

I have not overcome it BUT i realised something, its just a matter of you want or dont want.

A brain is something you need always in cultivation.

WIthout the brain, it is true you neglect the lust and emotions and even so i can give you a brain that is void of those emotions , so pure and clean. You did not attain emotion, but why?

You didnt overcome or been through those, you just chose to escape this reality. Its worlds apart when people tell you that he is been to peak of mount everest and conquering mount everest.

I obtain this thinking from my struggling of the lust, everything is a process. Its really pretty personal thinking of mine, i got no article to support my thinking but i think it pretty make sense. Correct me if i am wrong.

Does it ever amuse you what a chunk of meat can make you do??

I do.

**Sometimes i just laugh myself for being so shallow, a chunk of meat can make me........."

lust is like an addiction, one cannot get over certain thing and not easily contented thus attaching to greed, people continuously mindlessly commit the lustful thoughts and acts. it becomes a character merely self-created and also a habit that's like hypnosis. besides, competition and vanity has a link to lust as well. if you observe around there are various kinds of desires which is the same term for lust. i feel to get rid of lust or desire is a rather pessimistic solution to think of. to avoid is never the best practice or solution. neither am i encouraging it to flourish. rather to face it accept whatever comes forth and practice non-attachment as one observes the nature of conditions and situations that arouse the thoughts, therefore one learns impermanence, impartiality, see things as they are, practice samadhi and acts accordingly in mindfulness. it is not enough to see the surface of things, it is to look within deeper to the core of problems.
i don't rely on the thought of getting rid of lust because the idea is unreliable especially if there's no clarity in one's foundation of practice and is not stable and firm. it is like bouncing ball or one with a leg still trapped in the pit hole.

to add on... i believe it is more beneficial to be non-violence even in our practice and cultivation. getting rid is like a destruction which is not beneficial to anyone's well-being.
if anyone still recalls the illusory flower that vanishes into the sky as mentioned in the sutras, it was not merely destroyed or getting rid by someone. the illusion vanishes, so does lust vanishes.

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Brain is a vital organ so we need it to function. Just that we cannot reduce consciousness to brain.

So you don't think with your brain.....

Lust is a deeply ingrained habit in our 8th house consciousness?

Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

So you don't think with your brain.....

Originally posted by Isis:

Lust is a deeply ingrained habit in our 8th house consciousness?

Yes but like Thusness said, we must not see karmic propensities as an entity hiding/stored somewhere.

When there is the aggregation of causes and conditions, lust arises. Lust is itself empty, bcos it is conditioned arising.

Perhaps Thusness can elaborate for us...

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Yes but like Thusness said, we must not see karmic propensities as an entity hiding/stored somewhere.

When there is the aggregation of causes and conditions, lust arises. Lust is itself empty, bcos it is conditioned arising.

Perhaps Thusness can elaborate for us...

As lust is empty so humans are empty of all inherent thought.

Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

As lust is empty so humans are empty of all inherent thought.

Wrong. Humans are not 'empty of all inherent thoughts', all thoughts are empty of inherent existence.

cut off your dick lor

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Wrong. Humans are not 'empty of all inherent thoughts', all thoughts are empty of inherent existence.

isn't lust a thought?

Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

isn't lust a thought?

Yes.

Originally posted by Meow_Meow_Meow:

cut off your dick lor

Thai Buddhist monk cuts off penis

Now at that time a certain monk, tormented by dissatisfaction, cut off his own male organ. They told this matter to the Lord. He said: "This foolish man, monks, cut off one thing when another should have been cut off. Monks, one should not cut off one's own male organ. Whoever should cut it off, there is a grave offence."
(Vinaya Piṭaka, Mahāvagga 110. Horner trans.)

"This foolish man, monks, cut off one thing when another should have been cut off." - 'another' refers to the attachment, defilements and fetters

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Yes.

Then removing it is also removing a person's original character.

Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

Then removing it is also removing a person's original character.

Why?

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Why?

Because lust is part and parcel of human nature and thus cannot be truly removed without damaging the human brain. It is like drawing a blade and trying to cut a stream of water. Yes, discipline aids oneself in controlling the lustful thoughts but sooner or later people will fall prey to it.