Remember the time i questioned buhddism as a religion.

I finally got my answer on why some followers will never be enlighten under the light of dharma.

In the age of lord buhdda, people at that time were able to gain enlightenment to a each new level after every dharma talk is because people at that time have no other goal other than the intent on the truth. The kilesas in our heart now also differ in strenght from the time of lord buhdda.

Without wisdom and the will , people is people and dharma is dharma as time goes by, when some pple fail to get release the hold the real of samsara, they blame the religion, so people is no longer people and dharma is no longer dharma.

But the fact is people is still people and dharma is still dharma, people will always be people and dharma will always be dharma if one do not have the will and concentration on the teachings of dharma, he or she will never absorb the light of dharma. It is just like pouring a water over the dog's back,the dog will just shake the water off till it is dry. It takes 2 hand to clap, a coffee power is still a coffee power and a water is still a water if both dont infuse with one another

So do we blame teachings of dharma for not being right or should we blame ourself for not being dilligent and focus enough

Originally posted by cheskiz:

Remember the time i questioned buhddism as a religion.

I finally got my answer on why some followers will never be enlighten under the light of dharma.

In the age of lord buhdda, people at that time were able to gain enlightenment to a each new level after every dharma talk is because people at that time have no other goal other than the intent on the truth. The kilesas in our heart now also differ in strenght from the time of lord buhdda.

Without wisdom and the will , people is people and dharma is dharma as time goes by, when some pple fail to get release the hold the real of samsara, they blame the religion, so people is no longer people and dharma is no longer dharma.

But the fact is people is still people and dharma is still dharma, people will always be people and dharma will always be dharma if one do not have the will and concentration on the teachings of dharma, he or she will never absorb the light of dharma. It is just like pouring a water over the dog's back,the dog will just shake the water off till it is dry. It takes 2 hand to clap, a coffee power is still a coffee power and a water is still a water if both dont infuse with one another

So do we blame teachings of dharma for not being right or should we blame ourself for not being dilligent and focus enough

So true! Now you understand

if you hold on to a concept, truth cannot be found

Originally posted by cheskiz:

Remember the time i questioned buhddism as a religion.

I finally got my answer on why some followers will never be enlighten under the light of dharma.

In the age of lord buhdda, people at that time were able to gain enlightenment to a each new level after every dharma talk is because people at that time have no other goal other than the intent on the truth. The kilesas in our heart now also differ in strenght from the time of lord buhdda.

Without wisdom and the will , people is people and dharma is dharma as time goes by, when some pple fail to get release the hold the real of samsara, they blame the religion, so people is no longer people and dharma is no longer dharma.

But the fact is people is still people and dharma is still dharma, people will always be people and dharma will always be dharma if one do not have the will and concentration on the teachings of dharma, he or she will never absorb the light of dharma. It is just like pouring a water over the dog's back,the dog will just shake the water off till it is dry. It takes 2 hand to clap, a coffee power is still a coffee power and a water is still a water if both dont infuse with one another

So do we blame teachings of dharma for not being right or should we blame ourself for not being dilligent and focus enough

The same could also be said for each and every other religion. Only they might say, 'If we fail to find God in our heart, do we blame the teachings of the religion for not being right or should we blame ourself for not being dilligent and focus enough?'

Yes, it does takes two hand to clap. But as with any religion, if the teachings is unable to convince a person first, you can't blame anyone for not being dilligent and focus in the practice, since that person will see no point in it.

yep, i still break one of the precept in my everyday's life if i can, which is drinking intoxicants. I dont see how did i harm anyone if i drink in moderate amount.

Originally posted by cheskiz:

yep, i still break one of the precept in my everyday's life if i can, which is drinking intoxicants. I dont see how did i harm anyone if i drink in moderate amount.

With regards to that, I personally believe that the five precept are just general guidelines for us to follow, and that we should still follow it with some intelligence.

In today's coporate world, it's impossible to avoid drinking, especially since if you're entertaining your client.

In war, it's impossible to avoid killing and lying. If an enemy troop catches you, are you going to tell them the truth on where your bases are?

u can sort of opt out one or two precepts that crashes with ur career. u take those that u can observe. master advice is u try out first, then when u really can observe all already then u go and take them all properly. step by step.

/\

Originally posted by annoy-you-must:

With regards to that, I personally believe that the five precept are just general guidelines for us to follow, and that we should still follow it with some intelligence.

In today's coporate world, it's impossible to avoid drinking, especially since if you're entertaining your client.

In war, it's impossible to avoid killing and lying. If an enemy troop catches you, are you going to tell them the truth on where your bases are?

If it is for business entertainment purposes, and there is no way to get around it, then sometimes it is necessary to drink a little. That is only if there is no way around it, and therefore you take an 'incomplete precepts' which means 4 precepts, the 5th one you have not accomplished. Then gradually when you can, to abide by the 5th precepts as well.

However, we must be mindful of our actions. Even if you have to drink with them, you can drink slowly. But if you are drinking very fast, and finish up the alcoholic drink even faster than your client, and even ordering MORE, then that is not the right actions of a Buddhist. So we should be mindful of our actions, even if we have to drink, we have to try our best NOT to get drunk, to drink as little as possible.

Also, after getting to know our clients well enough, if they ask you out you can tell them you prefer to drink something non alcoholic instead.

Originally posted by cheskiz:

yep, i still break one of the precept in my everyday's life if i can, which is drinking intoxicants. I dont see how did i harm anyone if i drink in moderate amount.

See The Harm of Alcohol & Intoxication

And also.. when you start practising seriously, the harmful effects in your state of consciousness will become more and more apparent.

Try not to drink and break the habit.

To be frank I do not see drinking as being harmful in any way 'if' you only choose to drink a lil as a cup a day. Infact it is healthy. And It warms the body, especially during the winter season, and most people I knew who dinrk a cup per day are prone to less ach to their body.

I perceive It boils down to 'responsibility'. If you drink too much knowing you can't handle your liquor well then you're not being responsible to yourself and others. A drunk man is no much different from a dumb man. =)

Originally posted by kitkat_:

To be frank I do not see drinking as being harmful in any way 'if' you only choose to drink a lil as a cup a day. Infact it is healthy. And It warms the body, especially during the winter season, and most people I knew who dinrk a cup per day are prone to less ach to their body.

I perceive It boils down to 'responsibility'. If you drink too much knowing you can't handle your liquor well then you're not being responsible to yourself and others. A drunk man is no much different from a dumb man. =)

Drinking for medicinal purpose is ok (like those medicinal wine), but not for the purpose of intoxication or getting drunk.

thats y I will still hold on to it as not being harmful in anyway if people knows their responsible towards themselves and others.
if you get what I mean.

Sometimes a leisure drinking session is good. Scenario is Not those kind that
are at ktvs/pubs but imagine on a mountainside where the weather is chilling and ur up there
wif a few of ur very good buddies. Roasted pork, barbecue chicken, some snacks to go with the liquor.

Joy of Life?

Nonsensical trolling removed. - AEN

If you drink over your threshold, you get drunk which can lead to some dire consequence. For example, reckless driving, uncontrollable emotional outburst which i often seen, bad public behaviour, rape etc.

For me, i drink but i honestly finding having a calm and clear mind more conducive to happiness.

If you drink below your threshold, you might not be drunk and you might have retained a certain degree of clarity but do note that this clarity drops once you start drinking.. no matter what amount you are drinking. Your level of concentration decreases. Your awareness of what is happening to you decrease. Your perception of what is around you can be warped.

Just to quote what AEN has mentioned and can found in his previous link: his dharma teacher accidentally drink some wine and it affected her meditation into samadhi tremendously.

In a way, it affects the mind when you start drinking.

In my personal opinion, once you start drinking, you will find all sorts of excuses on why you should drink. But of course, as a lay-person, we can't avoid situation that required us to drink for socialisation but we all have a choice to drink more or less. If possible, we try to avoid it. If possible, we try to reduce the amount.

Originally posted by annoy-you-must:

With regards to that, I personally believe that the five precept are just general guidelines for us to follow, and that we should still follow it with some intelligence.

In today's coporate world, it's impossible to avoid drinking, especially since if you're entertaining your client.

In war, it's impossible to avoid killing and lying. If an enemy troop catches you, are you going to tell them the truth on where your bases are?

In buddhism, we are encourage by the Buddha to question the teachings and not to take in teachings blindly.

For a serious practitioners, one might have to die protecting the precepts. In buddhism, these precepts serve to protect us from reborning into the lower realm.

For some, we might take the easy way out and break the precepts.
However, remember karma. Remember there is a law of cause and effect in the universa, in whatever we do. If you are a buddhist and understand what is karma and what is the signficiant of taking refuge of 5 precepts, you come to understand why we shouldn't lie, kill or drink etc. In the long run, it is actually an intelligence protection if u come to understand buddhism.

I think Sinweiy once mentioned that there are exception cases: one breaks the precepts when one should break it at the right time. If not, it is considered breaking the precepts. But i'm not exactly sure what it means and when?

One of the four gratitude that buddhists have to repay is to protect our nation, and not supportive of war for conquering purposes.

Originally posted by Isis:


For a [b]serious practitioners, one might have to die protecting the precepts. I see this as the same, as one willing to died for his or her belief. In buddhism, these precepts serve to protect us from reborning into the lower realm. For some, we might just take the easy way out and break the precepts.
However, remember karma. Remember there is a law of cause and effect in whatever we do. If you are a buddhist and understand what is karma and what is the signficiant of 5 precepts, you come to understand why we shouldn't lie, kill or drink.

Of course, in buddhism, we are encourage by the Buddha to question the teachings and not to take teachings blindly.

I think Sinweiy once mention that there are exception cases: one break the precepts when one should break it at the right time. If not, it is considered breaking the precepts. But i'm not exactly sure what it means ?

One of the four gratitudes that buddhist have to repay is to protect our nation, and not supportive of war that cause terror and destruction for other nations.

[/b]

correct 5 Precepts is a guide to abstain from Wanton misconduct in this four area.

the basis of next human life depends on this life in observing the 5 Precepts

Btw what are the other four gratitude that we have to repay.

Nation, parents and what else?

Originally posted by Isis:

Btw what are the other four gratitude that we have to repay.

Nation, parents and what else?

Sentient beings , Nation ,Parents and Teachers

in fact it is the Buddha who said this which by mahayana tradition we should also repay Buddha gratitude by practise his teaching and help others

Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

We can only blame that faith is for the foolish.

I do not understand your definition of that because in my definition I don't blame that at all, I accept that. Infact you can say faith is for the foolish.

And I if not most of the people wouldn't mind to be called a fool for having that faith.

Originally posted by bohiruci:

Sentient beings , Nation ,Parents and Teachers

in fact it is the Buddha who said this which by mahayana tradition we should also repay Buddha gratitude by practise his teaching and help others

I feel that

One of the most sincere ways to comprehend Buddha's teaching is to appreciate and understand the kindness, sacrifices, benevolence our parents has given to us; showing our gratitude towards the 'people' who created us. Wthout them, without for we are 'nothing' if they are not 'something'.

I hold it as the most important belief in my life. It is pointless if one should understand all of 'His' teaching but he does not comprehend even the smallest yet biggest of all.

Originally posted by Isis:

In my personal opinion, once you start drinking, you will find all sorts of excuses on why you should drink. But of course, as a lay-person, we can't avoid situation that required us to drink for socialisation but we all have a choice to drink more or less. If possible, we try to avoid it. If possible, we try to reduce the amount.

I absolutely agree with that

Originally posted by kitkat_:

I do not understand your definition of that because in my definition I don't blame that at all, I accept that. Infact you can say faith is for the foolish.

And I if not most of the people wouldn't mind to be called a fool for having that faith.

Next time, don't bother replying his trolling. I'll just delete it straight away

BTW, faith does not have to go with ignorance. In Buddhism, faith is not blind. Just like faith in science is not blind. There must be a balance of Faith and Wisdom.

See: Are they still Buddhists without Karma and other fantastics? (Page 5), read the post on 12 October 2007 · 11:56 AM,

http://www.buddhanet.net/cbp2_f5.htm

The Unification of Faith (s. sraddha) and Wisdom (s. prajna)

(...)

Please read new topic: Regarding Trolling

refraining from intoxicants, is a "preventive" precept. abiding the 5th help prevent one from breaking the first four precepts per se.

in the mahayana school Lu Zhong that Specialize in the training of Precepts,
the only way the 5th precept can be "open" is when it's mildly added to one's medication. other than that buddhists still need to "protect" the precept.

there's also rules that states that if it's a RIGHT Time to 'open' the precept and one do not make it an exception to 'open' the precept, one is also breaking the precept. it's mostly to help others.

before Lord Buddha's parinirvana, He did instructed Ananda to use the Precepts as their Teacher."

The true purpose of precept is to cease all acts of unwholesomeness. hence also known as, 'jing jie' (discipline of Purity).
For example if a country ordered that Buddhism be elininated. What should you do? Such incident took place in China thrice. Look at the history, did any Buddhists be it Ordain and Lay, rebelled. Nope! Why? Buddhists abide by the Vinaya. Forever no hatred to the country. This is truly protecting the Dharma. Why/how? Let the World's people see that Buddhist is good residents. Will the next governor want Buddhism to recover. YES! But if the Buddhists rebel and take revenge in the first place. And other countries see this. It will leave a bad impression. And criticize Buddhism and forever reject Buddhism. For that you truely eliminate Buddhism. So how Buddhism flourish depend on how Buddhists uphold the Vinaya. If Vinaya ends, Buddhism ends. This idea is very profound according to cause and effect.

/\

Originally posted by sinweiy:

in the mahayana school Lu Zhong that Specialize in the training of Precepts,
the only way the 5th precept can be "open" is when it's mildly added to one's medication. other than that buddhists still need to "protect" the precept.

there's also rules that states that if it's a RIGHT Time to 'open' the precept and one do not make it an exception to 'open' the precept, one is also breaking the precept. it's mostly to help others.

Yes.. like I posted before, intention is important:

A wealthy merchant, who was a disciple of the Buddha, went with a very large caravan of other merchants and his servants to a certain island, to bring back for trade some of the gem stones for which this island was famous. On board ship, on the way back, the marchant learned that another passenger on the boat intended to kill all the hundreds of people on board, in order to be able to steal the cargo of jewels.

The merchant knew the man, and knew that he was indeed capable of killing all those people, and he wondered what to do about it. In the end, despite the fact that he had taken a vow with the Buddha never to take the life of another being, he had no alternative but to kill the would-be robber.

He was very ashamed of what he had done, and as soon as he returned home he went to the Buddha to confess his bad action. But the Buddha told him he had not done wrong, because his intention had not been to take life, but to save life. Furthermore, since he had in fact saved the lives of hundreds of people, and had saved the robber from the very negative karma of killing hundreds of people and the inevitable consequneces of such a bad action, the Buddha explained that the merchant had in fact done a good action.

~ Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche