What if i'm not reborn as a Buddhist in my next life?
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Originally posted by likeyou:
I always think when I died, my dad will be waiting for me, hold my hand, hug me and bring me to another world.
I know pple over here will say me is stupid to have this idea.
But, I sincerely wish that will happen when I died.
When you die, please let go of all attachments and beware of spirits and ghosts pretending to be your relatives... this is dangerous.
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Hi AEN, what would happen if we follow those ghosts who pretend to be our relatives?
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Originally posted by Stephology:
Hi AEN, what would happen if we follow those ghosts who pretend to be our relatives?
I think Master Chin Kung explained very clearly in the youtube video, do take a few minutes to watch.
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Originally posted by likeyou:
I always think when I died, my dad will be waiting for me, hold my hand, hug me and bring me to another world.
I know pple over here will say me is stupid to have this idea.
But, I sincerely wish that will happen when I died.
when it's time to go, our Guide(s) will be the ones helping us to move into the Light, where we'll meet up with our soul group, either before or after our 'debrief' by the Council. Our parents may or may not be of the same soul group as ourselves. -
Originally posted by likeyou:
I always think when I died, my dad will be waiting for me, hold my hand, hug me and bring me to another world.
I know pple over here will say me is stupid to have this idea.
But, I sincerely wish that will happen when I died.
Just to clarify that Jigsaw Rainbow is a free thinker, his views do not represent Buddhism.
Sorry Jigsaw Rainbow, I need to clarify so that others will not be confused.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
Just to clarify that Jigsaw Rainbow is a free thinker, his views do not represent Buddhism.
Sorry Jigsaw Rainbow, I need to clarify so that others will not be confused.
no prob, Dawnfirstlight. I'm just glad my threads are not deleted. :)yes, I'm speaking as a spiritual free-thinker. Likeyou's question about what happens upon death is quite a popular question people ask... it'll be interesting to hear everyone's views on it.
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Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
when it's time to go, our Guide(s) will be the ones helping us to move into the Light, where we'll meet up with our soul group, either before or after our 'debrief' by the Council. Our parents may or may not be of the same soul group as ourselves.Just a sharing of my opinion.
I think, it is better to gain realisation in this lifetime if possible than to think about what happens after death.
In gaining realisation, one will in fact have a better understanding of the afterlife. This is because real realisation is applicable regardless of which realm we end up in.
In all the realms, the basis and nature of reality is the same, including this physical one here. Every realm exhibits the same nature of non-duality/no-self and emptiness.
My understanding is that there is more than one possible afterlife scenario. It greatly depends on the Beings karmic condition at the time.
Generally, not definitive here, there is roughly eight levels of dimension/density. This dimensions corresponds to the jhanic level during jhana meditation. The lower realms are with form and gets progressively formless up the dimensions.
However, realisation is NOT about climbing the dimensions per se. Instead, it is about realising and understanding the basic properties of nature that is in all the dimensions. This is a very significant difference.
About the Light that Rainbow Jigsaw mentioned, my understanding is that it is not outside. So there is really not going towards the light. The 'light' is the nature of our being. However, without understanding/realising non-duality, it will be perceived as being outside... because the conceptual mind thinks linearly.
My understanding is that during the death process, the senses will shut down including the mental process. This will momentarily lead to the experience of presence and bright light/luminosity. This is somewhat similar to meditation experience whereby the senses and mental process momentarily shuts down.
Again, like to stress that nothing definitive here. Please use your own discernment.
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Yes... whatever visions one sees on death, it is important to see them as all projections of one's mind.
Otherwise we enter into dualistic vision, with a 'me' and 'other'... and this is the basis for samsaric suffering and rebirth.
But if we recognise the Clear Light of Mind, the clear vivid yet empty Presence at death, and recognise that not as an external 'other' but as the very essence of one's nature, one immediately liberates. In fact we don't have to wait till then, we can recognise it now, since it has always been our ever-present nature.Related article: The intermediate state after death
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Many people are afraid of death, and what happens thereafter. Only when one has reached a certain stage of learning (I prefer to use this word, but forumers here may prefer to use "cultivation"), will one no longer fear death completely.
Personally, I feel that obtaining a pure intellectual understanding will not be able to help one to totally understand death, as doubts and fear will creep in sometime. And fear makes one act unwisely. After fully understanding death, and overcoming any fear of it, one will be able to live current life more meaningfully and purposefully. There are far too many people in this world who live their lives on the premise that "life is short, enjoy while you can" or that one is completely gone from this Universe after death.
Learning is a very long journey, and takes many lifetimes. But it's better to be on the learning journey, than not at all, no matter which stage one's in. :)
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Originally posted by longchen:
Just a sharing of my opinion.
I think, it is better to gain realisation in this lifetime if possible than to think about what happens after death.
In gaining realisation, one will in fact have a better understanding of the afterlife. This is because real realisation is applicable regardless of which realm we end up in.
In all the realms, the basis and nature of reality is the same, including this physical one here. Every realm exhibits the same nature of non-duality/no-self and emptiness.
My understanding is that there is more than one possible afterlife scenario. It greatly depends on the Beings karmic condition at the time.
Generally, not definitive here, there is roughly eight levels of dimension/density. This dimensions corresponds to the jhanic level during jhana meditation. The lower realms are with form and gets progressively formless up the dimensions.
However, realisation is NOT about climbing the dimensions per se. Instead, it is about realising and understanding the basic properties of nature that is in all the dimensions. This is a very significant difference.
About the Light that Rainbow Jigsaw mentioned, my understanding is that it is not outside. So there is really not going towards the light. The 'light' is the nature of our being. However, without understanding/realising non-duality, it will be perceived as being outside... because the conceptual mind thinks linearly.
My understanding is that during the death process, the senses will shut down including the mental process. This will momentarily lead to the experience of presence and bright light/luminosity. This is somewhat similar to meditation experience whereby the senses and mental process momentarily shuts down.
Again, like to stress that nothing definitive here. Please use your own discernment.
Longchen is absolutely right that the Light I'm talking about is not on the outside. "Going towards the Light" is a very simplified description, though there are reasons for seeing certain colours of light, and tunnels, etc. Deeper understanding is needed. Eg. certain people (like myself) always see an electric blue light (of different nature) during meditation or times of quietness, and there's a reason for it. Light and sound (effect of chanting) are really one and the same.
More importantly, one should not fear death, but instead live one's current life fruitfully. What happens after death will be appropriate of our stage of 'learning'.
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Originally posted by likeyou:
I always think when I died, my dad will be waiting for me, hold my hand, hug me and bring me to another world.
I know pple over here will say me is stupid to have this idea.
But, I sincerely wish that will happen when I died.
You love your dad and have very strong attachment with your dad, it is only natural that you want to see him again. Please transfer this strong sense of love to the rest of the other beings!
You may want to see him in a Heaven Realm. Do you know which one? However, anything in Deva and Asura realms is not permanent therefore illusory, when the Deva or Asura falls or dies, all that is contained within the realm, with their karma exhausted, will eventually fall in to a lower realm. In order to grow and sustain , they need believers!
We are born and reborned in this existence countless times, many of the beings you now share this existence with are also your fathers and mothers in previous lives. They also gave birth and love you too!
Please wish them well and transfer merits to them so that are born to a higher realm.
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Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
when it's time to go, our Guide(s) will be the ones helping us to move into the Light, where we'll meet up with our soul group, either before or after our 'debrief' by the Council. Our parents may or may not be of the same soul group as ourselves.Hello Rainbow Jigsaw,
I am weychin, all you have said is interesting, but is has nothing to do with Buddhism.
You are speaking of a Deva or Asura Realm, which nothing to do with Tusita, presided by Buddha Amithaba, Buddha of Boundless Light! It is a Bodhisattva Realm!
You will be straying people from the original goal of Buddhism !
There are lot of articles pertaining to Buddhism, and I believe you are more than welcome to peruse them.
By the way, Maitreya Buddha is not yet born, and will not reach enligtenenment, until the extinction of this current Buddha Shakyamuni age! All reports of Maitreya, I am afriad is premature!
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Clear Light does not refer to a vision of light, it refers to the Presence, Clarity, Aliveness, Awareness which is innate as our own nature. It's not a visual thing, it is the colourless light of clarity.
Those who see lights of other colours in death and chase after them will enter into samsaric rebirth again. Those who get attracted to white light take birth as devas, those who get attracted by blue light take birth as humans, those who get attracted to the grey light gets reborn in lower realms, etc. Chasing after these visions is the state of delusion and is the sure way to fall back into the cycle of rebirth and sufferings.
I should also mention that a certain person in this forum received a vision recently of an external 'guide' on his third eye, and when he focused on the vision, he immediately lost sight of his true nature. Beware of this danger. Fortunately because that person in this forum is already a long time practitioner, when he noticed this he knows too well to immediately ignore what is perceived and continue abiding in non-dual awareness, rather than to continue being attracted and deluded by this vision. True guides will not want to be the focus of your attention, he will only point back to your true nature, and reflect your true nature. One must treat all forms as illusory. That is why in Zen, it is said, if you see the Buddha, kill the Buddha. If the Buddha become the object of focus or attachment, it is in fact the manifestation of ghosts or demons and maras (and the Shurangama Sutra has detailed description of numerous examples of how ghosts and demons appear in the forms of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas to misguide people) to distract you from achieving liberation. That's why true practitioners pay no attention or concern about these things (i'll post another post below on that).
One should only be concerned about resolving the true nature of mind, and nothing else. All else is a detour, a distraction away from the true path of liberation.
This article contains very clear teachings of what exactly happens at death: http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/A%20-%20Tibetan%20Buddhism/Authors/Thrangu%20Rinpoche/Bardo%20Teachings.pdf/Bardo%20Teachings-%20Thrangu%20Rinpoche.pdf
And as Dalai Lama said:
"I don't think that in the term clear light, light should be taken literally. It is sort of metaphoric. This could have its roots in our terminology of mental will. According to Buddhism, all consciousness or all cognitive mental events are said to be in the nature of clarity and luminosity. So it is from that point of view that the choice of the term light is used. Clear light is the most subtle level of mind, which can be seen as the basis or the source from which eventual experience or realisation of Buddhahood, Buddha's wisdom might come about, therefore it is called clear light. Clear light is a state of mind which becomes fully manifest only as a consequence of certain sequences or stages of dissolution, where the mind becomes devoid of certain types of obscurations, which are again metaphorically described in terms of sun-like, moonlike and darkness. These refer to the earlier three stages of dissolution which are technically called, including the clear light stage, the four empties. At the final stage of dissolution the mind is totally free of all these factors of obscuration. Therefore it is called clear light. Sort of a light. It is also possible to understand the usage of the term clear light in terms of the nature of mind itself. Mind or consciousness is a phenomena which lacks any obstructive quality. It is non-obstructed."
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Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
Many people are afraid of death, and what happens thereafter. Only when one has reached a certain stage of learning (I prefer to use this word, but forumers here may prefer to use "cultivation"), will one no longer fear death completely.
Personally, I feel that obtaining a pure intellectual understanding will not be able to help one to totally understand death, as doubts and fear will creep in sometime. And fear makes one act unwisely. After fully understanding death, and overcoming any fear of it, one will be able to live current life more meaningfully and purposefully. There are far too many people in this world who live their lives on the premise that "life is short, enjoy while you can" or that one is completely gone from this Universe after death.
Learning is a very long journey, and takes many lifetimes. But it's better to be on the learning journey, than not at all, no matter which stage one's in. :)
The only way you can ever go beyond doubts and fear is to realise your true nature right now. Once you recognise it, you will feel a sense of greatness, transcendence, fearlessness. You will see without doubt that your true nature is not something that has entered the stream of time, is not something that is born and dies.
If you come to depend on anything else, like external guides, or chase after an external light or vision, you will lose sight of your primordial essence.
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http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no4c.htm 
Volume 7 no 4
Voice of Bliss
All forms are illusions
Buddhism is truly detached from idols
People who think that Buddhism is the worshipping of an image of the Buddha, or that the Buddha is somebody whom we can appeal to for favours, should know of two very profound verses from the Diamond Sutra that contradict these popular beliefs. To the intellectual, they can lay to rest the suspicion that Buddhism is superstition. To those who are used to praying for divine intervention, they can become self reliant through their own virtuous karma.
It is stated in the Diamond Sutra, “He who sees me (Buddha) in forms or seeks me in sounds is on a heterodox path and cannot see the Tathagata (Buddha).” It further states that, “All forms are but illusions, in seeing that all forms are illusory, one sees the Tathagata”. It is only when we have attained a certain advanced level in the learning and practising of Buddhism that we will be able to understand the profound meaning of these verses. If you were to tell a person who has just started to learn Buddhism that learning Buddhism is like these verses, then he would find them too profound. He would not be able to make out what Buddha is like. Of course, he knows what human beings are like and quite naturally he will assume that only those who are similar in form to human beings are Buddhas. We can say that this is correct, but we can also say that this is wrong. For example, kindergarten teachers may use drawings of an old man and old woman when teaching the young children about grandfathers and grandmothers. Thereafter, when the children see other old folks in such resemblance they know that they are someone else’s grandparents. But, to university students it would be inappropriate for professors to use the same approach when talking about such blood relationships.
It is the same in learning Buddhism. When we encourage a new student of Buddhism to pay respect to the Buddha in the temple or monastery, he will not be frightened when he sees that the Buddha is the same as a human being. At the same time, when he sees that the Buddha and Bodhisattva images are so dignified and compassionate, it will give rise to a feeling of joy and reverence and lead him to learn Buddhism.Often we come across people who have been learning Buddhism for a long time saying that they saw this Buddha or that Bodhisattva in their dreams. Initially, when we do not know about their level of understanding of Buddhism, we may praise them by saying, “Oh! You have such good affinity with Buddha and Bodhisattva that you can even see their images!” But it is wrong if we always praise them like this. If they report dreams like this for more then 3 times, you have to tell them, “The Mara is here, you have seen the Mara! All the Zen masters advise to obliterate the Buddha when the Buddha appears, and obliterate the Mara when the Mara appears [1].” We cannot praise them any more because they have already developed an attachment to forms.
In the same way, when we are dealing with people who are already advanced in Buddhism, we should use the method of the Diamond Sutra rather than the kindergarten method:
“He who sees me (Buddha) in forms or seeks me in sounds is on a heterodox path and cannot see the Tathagata (Buddha).”
“All forms are but illusions, in seeing that all forms are illusory, one sees the Tathagata.”At this level, people will realize that Buddhism is the only religion that eradicates superstition and attachment to all forms.
Critics often say that the Buddha image is an idol. They criticize that Buddhism worships idols. In reality, the cross, the Jesus Christ image and Mother Mary, they are also idols. In this sense, is there a religion that does not worship idols? Therefore, we cannot say that Buddhism is the only religion that worships idols. The fact is that only Buddhism does not worship idols. The Diamond Sutra states, “All forms are but illusions, in seeing that all forms are illusory, one sees the Tathagata.”!
The essence of the Buddha, the Buddha Nature is omnipresent in the space of the Dharma realm, and the Dharma Nature is omnipresent in the space.
Notes:
1. To ignore and not to be attached to such forms;. Mara is the Evil One, described as a murderer, hinderer, disturber, destroyer, etc.
� Copyright 2002.Jen Chen Buddhism Centre
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Clear Light does not refer to a vision of light, it refers to the Presence, Clarity, Aliveness, Awareness which is innate as our own nature. It's not a visual thing, it is the colourless light of clarity.
Those who see lights of other colours in death and chase after them will enter into samsaric rebirth again. Those who get attracted to white light take birth as devas, those who get attracted by blue light take birth as humans, those who get attracted to the grey light gets reborn in lower realms, etc. Chasing after these visions is the state of delusion and is the sure way to fall back into the cycle of rebirth and sufferings.
I should also mention that a certain person in this forum received a vision recently of an external 'guide' on his third eye, and when he focused on the vision, he immediately lost sight of his true nature. Beware of this danger. Fortunately because that person in this forum is already a long time practitioner, when he noticed this he knows too well to immediately ignore what is perceived and continue abiding in non-dual awareness, rather than to continue being attracted and deluded by this vision. True guides will not want to be the focus of your attention, he will only point back to your true nature, and reflect your true nature. One must treat all forms as illusory. That is why in Zen, it is said, if you see the Buddha, kill the Buddha. If the Buddha become the object of focus or attachment, it is in fact the manifestation of ghosts or demons and maras (and the Shurangama Sutra has detailed description of numerous examples of how ghosts and demons appear in the forms of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas to misguide people) to distract you from achieving liberation. That's why true practitioners pay no attention or concern about these things (i'll post another post below on that).
One should only be concerned about resolving the true nature of mind, and nothing else. All else is a detour, a distraction away from the true path of liberation.
This article contains very clear teachings of what exactly happens at death: http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/A%20-%20Tibetan%20Buddhism/Authors/Thrangu%20Rinpoche/Bardo%20Teachings.pdf/Bardo%20Teachings-%20Thrangu%20Rinpoche.pdf
And as Dalai Lama said:
"I don't think that in the term clear light, light should be taken literally. It is sort of metaphoric. This could have its roots in our terminology of mental will. According to Buddhism, all consciousness or all cognitive mental events are said to be in the nature of clarity and luminosity. So it is from that point of view that the choice of the term light is used. Clear light is the most subtle level of mind, which can be seen as the basis or the source from which eventual experience or realisation of Buddhahood, Buddha's wisdom might come about, therefore it is called clear light. Clear light is a state of mind which becomes fully manifest only as a consequence of certain sequences or stages of dissolution, where the mind becomes devoid of certain types of obscurations, which are again metaphorically described in terms of sun-like, moonlike and darkness. These refer to the earlier three stages of dissolution which are technically called, including the clear light stage, the four empties. At the final stage of dissolution the mind is totally free of all these factors of obscuration. Therefore it is called clear light. Sort of a light. It is also possible to understand the usage of the term clear light in terms of the nature of mind itself. Mind or consciousness is a phenomena which lacks any obstructive quality. It is non-obstructed."
our understanding and experience of Light are very different, but it's ok to me. I'm just sharing my views and experience; it's not my intention to disrupt your teachings to forumers here. :)
I just feel that young souls need more than just intellectual texts and standard procedures. It's like in schools, we don't just teach students to memorise texts and remember standard procedures, and then sit for exams. They may excel in the exams, but out in the real world, it's a totally different ball game.
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then what about let's say in the case of a dying person who sees the vision of Amitabha Buddha coming to 'receive' him/her, what about that? how would the dying person know if it's Mara or the real buddha cos you said 'all forms are illusory'. so if the dying person doesn't wanna 'go' with the supposed real buddha, then he/she is still caught in samsara but on the other hand(correct me if i'm wrong), isn't that how Amitabha Buddha comes to bring them to his Pure Land? then how?
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What about the next of kin after death comes back as a flash of white light?
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Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
our understanding and experience of Light are very different, but it's ok to me. I'm just sharing my views and experience; it's not my intention to disrupt your teachings to forumers here. :)
I just feel that young souls need more than just intellectual texts and standard procedures. It's like in schools, we don't just teach students to memorise texts and remember standard procedures, and then sit for exams. They may excel in the exams, but out in the real world, it's a totally different ball game.
And what do you mean by 'more than just intellectual texts'. What do you mean by experienced? Gaining powers?
The only 'experience' that truly matters in Buddhism, is to realise one's true nature. That is the only experience worth having, and it is not an experience, but an experiential Recognition of what is already always the case. This recognition is nothing close to intellectual, it cannot be accessed by thinking about it.
Anything else is a detour, a distraction, and leads away from enlightenment. Anything else is just more mundane, transient experiences that comes and goes, that becomes the cause of rebirth and sufferings if we are attracted to or attached to or identified with. That is why Buddhists must 'kill the Buddha when they see the Buddha'. All such visions and states are delusional and comes from maras and demons.
Anyway do read this and contemplate on this to realise this in your experience: Some Writings on Non-duality by Ken Wilber
And honestly speaking, I find that most channeled information has very confused understanding about our true nature and does not even lead people in that direction (the only exception we've found so far being Aaron, who is deceased and his last life was a 15th century Thai meditation master, and clearly knows and experiences what he's talking about. most other channelers/channeled beings have very dualistic knowledge and clearly doesnt know their true nature). It goes right off course the path of enlightenment. These channeled information comes from spirits, but are these spirits enlightened? Definitely no (for most I've seen).
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Originally posted by Aloozer:
then what about let’s say in the case of a dying person who sees the vision of Amitabha Buddha coming to ‘receive’ him/her, what about that? how would the dying person know if it’s Mara or the real buddha cos you said ‘all forms are illusory’. so if the dying person doesn’t wanna ‘go’ with the supposed real buddha, then he/she is still caught in samsara but on the other hand(correct me if i’m wrong), isn’t that how Amitabha Buddha comes to bring them to his Pure Land? then how?
hi, i've been asked by AEN to answer your query. i know a bit on Pureland school.How to know if it's Mara or Amitabha?
One thing for certain is that Mara can never display himself as the Main/original(本尊) Buddha or Bodhisattva(Guan Yin) that the person had been practicing or emphasized through out his life of practice and conviction.
For example, if a person has been reciting Guan Yin and seldom heard of Amitabha, then, if he/she see Amitabha or other Buddha or Bodhisattva, then something is wrong.
and if a person recite Amitabha most of the time and sometime Guan yin, then the 本尊 should be Amitabha. He/she should see Amitabha coming and/or Guanyin and Dashizhi by the side. if he/she see Shakyamuni or other Buddha, then somthing is wrong. It's good to see all three coming.
So...that's why we called it "本尊". something like your most recited/mindfull Buddha/bodhisattva. because it's been "seeded" into your mind. Mara even with great power also cannot transform into YOUR mindfulness 本尊.
It's advice not to recite too many Buddha, the mind get confused. if one is confused or not singleminded, than Mara can come and disturb.
Hope it help.
Amituofo!
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
When you die, please let go of all attachments and beware of spirits and ghosts pretending to be your relatives... this is dangerous.
This is really rather scary. But what do we do if we have to beware of them?May I also ask, what harm can they do to us?
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
hi, i've been asked by AEN to answer your query. i know a bit on Pureland school.How to know if it's Mara or Amitabha?
One thing for certain is that Mara can never display himself as the Main/original(本尊) Buddha or Bodhisattva(Guan Yin) that the person had been practicing or emphasized through out his life of practice and conviction.
For example, if a person has been reciting Guan Yin and seldom heard of Amitabha, then, if he/she see Amitabha or other Buddha or Bodhisattva, then something is wrong.
and if a person recite Amitabha most of the time and sometime Guan yin, then the 本尊 should be Amitabha. He/she should see Amitabha coming and/or Guanyin and Dashizhi by the side. if he/she see Shakyamuni or other Buddha, then somthing is wrong. It's good to see all three coming.
So...that's why we called it "本尊". something like your most recited/mindfull Buddha/bodhisattva. because it's been "seeded" into your mind. Mara even with great power also cannot transform into YOUR mindfulness 本尊.
It's advice not to recite too many Buddha, the mind get confused. if one is confused or not singleminded, than Mara can come and disturb.
Hope it help.
Amituofo!
/\
Yes, I agree with you. What you said was exactly what the monks told us. If one recites Amitabha, at one's deathbed, one sees Amitabha, Guanyin or Dashizhi or three coming, one can follow them. However, if one sees other Buddhas, we also have to respect them (regardless real or not) and tell them we cannot follow them because we only want to follow Amitabha, Guanyin or Dashizhi.
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Originally posted by Beautiful951:
This is really rather scary. But what do we do if we have to beware of them?May I also ask, what harm can they do to us?
my personal view, which may not be shared by others in this forum:if one is on the right path, there's absolutely nothing to fear, at any time, whether alive or dying. all that should happen to us for our highest good should happen at the right time, as we'll naturally know what to do.
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Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
my personal view, which may not be shared by others in this forum:if one is on the right path, there's absolutely nothing to fear, at any time, whether alive or dying. all that should happen to us for our highest good should happen at the right time, as we'll naturally know what to do.
You gotta understand, nothing is perfect, be it when you are alive or dead. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
When you die, please let go of all attachments and beware of spirits and ghosts pretending to be your relatives... this is dangerous.
even if they had been our real relatives, we are also not to follow them what? cos they themselves are ghosts/spirits?