Mx5 testdrive accident
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Currently, there is no other sources more reliable than SpoonX's. Moreover, he already stated that he gathered a subtantial amount of information from the eye-witnesses and the driver himself. So what we can only do right now is to side with his story but not necessarily believing his account and details.Originally posted by so_nice:like i mentioned earlier..2 sides of a coin. how can one be convinenced just by listening to what the chap choosed to tell SpoonX?
remember this, what we got to know is what the chap choosed to tell & not necessary the truth.
I am just bringing up some of the points that are supposed to be taken into consideration as well. -
Honda NSX is MR (mid-engine, rear-wheel drive).Originally posted by markzz:Integra is FF, not FR! Infact, the only FR Honda cars are NSX and S2000!
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from someone else who attended the wake, he also mentioned that the merc owner had nothing to do with the accident.Originally posted by iveco:After reading the latest update from SpoonX, I am quite convinced that the merc owner is in the clear. What about you? -
I do believe what spoonX knows is not just from the driver alone. As i mentioned in the other thread dealing with this incident,Originally posted by so_nice:like i mentioned earlier..2 sides of a coin. how can one be convinenced just by listening to what the chap choosed to tell SpoonX?
remember this, what we got to know is what the chap choosed to tell & not necessary the truth.
"In a fatal accident like this, all evidence are essential. The investigators would have gotten to the scene fairly quickly because of the perishable nature of the evidence, and because they have to gather all their evidence quickly in order for traffic flow to resume. I would believe that he stood by and listened in while the investigators interviewed the eye witnesses, and very possibly spoke to the investigators a bit, and asked them about their prelimanary opinions of the accident. He would thus have some information which, regardless of whether he was 'somebody' or not, would have." -
most of the time, professional IOs won't reveal much of the info to members of public & being a fren of the driver is no expection. i'm not doubting SpoonX's creditability but the point is driver is his close fren. u can't deny the fact that he could be alittle biased in defending him. furthermore, what SpoonX knows is what the driver choosed to tell him. i have come across countless of traffic offenders who protest their innocent even when caught red-handed. so i won't be suprise if the chap choosed not to reveal the whole account of what has happened.
yes, at this point benefits of doubt belong to the driver as he is the only one who survived from the crash. but not to the extend of "siding" his story as mentioned by another bro here. that's simply ridicules! -
How can his sources be reliable? Can he take the witness stand? If not, then please don't make his words testament. Let the courts judge then we'll see.Originally posted by philia:Currently, there is no other sources more reliable than SpoonX's. Moreover, he already stated that he gathered a subtantial amount of information from the eye-witnesses and the driver himself. So what we can only do right now is to side with his story but not necessarily believing his account and details.
I am just bringing up some of the points that are supposed to be taken into consideration as well.
Do you know SpoonX personally? How do you know that hes for real? And just because he is the "only" source doesn't make his words count. If you want to be neutral, then please wait till the case is heard. Until then, please don't tell others to keep straight when you're obviously swaying. -
I think what philia is saying is just to analyse the incident from another point of view, such asOriginally posted by obzerver:How can his sources be reliable? Can he take the witness stand? If not, then please don't make his words testament. Let the courts judge then we'll see.
Do you know SpoonX personally? How do you know that hes for real? And just because he is the "only" source doesn't make his words count. If you want to be neutral, then please wait till the case is heard. Until then, please don't tell others to keep straight when you're obviously swaying.
"What if the driver is not at fault?" "What if the accident was caused my circumstancial conditions" etc etc.
If you notice most of the time the forumnites are just blantantly scolding the driver, hang him, what tie him to follow thru wall and let Stig drive past him etc etc, I think he is just merely trying to even out the incident by giving an alternative course of happenings.. Why not just respect him by reading his posts, and if you find anything to attack, attack the post, attack the points, but don't attack the poster.. No offense k.. -
Exactly. My concerns were aroused when SpoonX said:Originally posted by so_nice:most of the time, professional IOs won't reveal much of the info to members of public & being a fren of the driver is no expection. i'm not doubting SpoonX's creditability but the point is driver is his close fren. u can't deny the fact that he could be alittle biased in defending him. furthermore, what SpoonX knows is what the driver choosed to tell him. i have come across countless of traffic offenders who protest their innocent even when caught red-handed. so i won't be suprise if the chap choosed not to reveal the whole account of what has happened.
yes, at this point benefits of doubt belong to the driver as he is the only one who survived from the crash. but not to the extend of "siding" his story as mentioned by another bro here. that's simply ridicules!
1- He had alot of confidential info which cannot be revealed.
2 - His account was from interviewing passer-bys, the other drivers involved in the accident and the "accused" himself.
So is SpoonX some official investigator? If so, I withdraw my concerns on his validity. Otherwise, all his postings are baseless just like each and everyone here, yes, including myself. All we're doing is assuming. Don't make your words the Bible while shooting down everyone else's as rubbish. -
I'm afriad you have to then...... I know him personally and being involved with the deseased and "accused", he is taken off the investigation. But that doesn't mean he will not know the full details, surveys, charges agains't the 'accused' and so on.Originally posted by obzerver:So is SpoonX some official investigator? If so, I withdraw my concerns on his validity.
But of course then again, you have also the right to doubt my validity. -
the reason why they have to sound their horn or flash their lights is because there are plenty of road hoggers in singapore who have the habit of not using rear view mirror and not giving way to faster cars. I think this has got something to do with EGO.Originally posted by sbst275:If you were to see on SG roads, the worst type of drivers are those in 20's or 30's that drives European cars. Horning at other cars, flash headlights, speed on highway, (long list) -
The driver is definitely not speeding, but I believe he did push too hard on the accelerator, causing the car to get out of control.
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Yes. I know him personally. He is not the only source of course. Just that others are still too sore to even come in and bother about forums.Originally posted by obzerver:How can his sources be reliable? Can he take the witness stand? If not, then please don't make his words testament. Let the courts judge then we'll see.
Do you know SpoonX personally? How do you know that hes for real? And just because he is the "only" source doesn't make his words count. If you want to be neutral, then please wait till the case is heard. Until then, please don't tell others to keep straight when you're obviously swaying.
At least his 'story' if u so call it as is the only one from a person who was at the accident scence and spoke to not only bystanders, but the 'accused'. I trust his story due to the nature of his proffession.
But then again... you could without doubt question my validity too.......
So let us all stop making wild guesses and let the courts make their decision. -
yes..he might be an IO but being an ex-po myself, some of the bros here too suggest i wasnt being netural enough. we don't doubt or question the creditability of SpoonX. but rather, things that came from the driver himself. okay, maybe he wasn't speeding. but isn't "pushing" a vehicle which he wasn't familiar with too hard a kind of action or mistake? that constitute to "rash act causing death" under the criminal proceeding code of our singapore law fyi.
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This might be likely, if there was a moment of panic on his part. Like hitting the accel when he actually wanted the brakes.Originally posted by Gazelle:The driver is definitely not speeding, but I believe he did push too hard on the accelerator, causing the car to get out of control. -
ok fine. lets consider for a moment that we do not believe anyone here who claims to know the driver. Lets just say we do not know if he was speeding or not.
Judging by the laws of physics, is it possible for the MX5 to have clipped a curb and flown at 40? yes. Is it even possible for this to happen at 30? Yes. Was anyone speeding? we don't know. Did anyone have to be speeding for that sort of impact force to have occured? No they didn't have to, although they might have been. So can we conclude that, from an unbiased point of view, it was entirely possible for the MX5 driver to have been not speeding? Yes it is entirely possible. If I choose to ignore everything SpoonX has said about the incident, altho I will not say for sure the MX5 wasn't speeding, I'd at least admit it was possible for this to happen at 40. The force needed to launch such a light car up into the air is not a big one to begin with. Once it has left the road, its speed up to that point is no longer that relevant as everything else, the flip etc, were due to its velocity after launching, and the velocity of the BMW. resultant speed of impact between the 2 cars accounts for more of the damage than anything else. Do I think the driver is at fault? Certainly to an extent. Do I think he definately was speeding? No I cannot say that from what I know of physics, and what I know from spending 3 years racing on circuits and having racing accidents. -
Who's the person who intro him down to her?Originally posted by SpoonX:Okok... I happen to know the SE personally... And my heart goes out for her....
And if strike TOTO was me it would be great but i strike it in another way which is the I also know the driver of the MX 5.
Firstly, Rest In peace Angelia....
2ndly the story goes like this:
The driver was driving and he wasn't speeding, cos any kid will know the road is so congested at that time along upper paya lebar road and no way for u to speed under such congestion and a car swerve into his lane. he wanted to avoid the car by swerving left, but the road is made of metal plates and mind u the plates are slippery even if it's not wet, thus the MX 5 being a FR car the car oversteered instead. the driver isn't familair with a FR car tried to counter steer but the rear right of the car hit the divider and the car was tossed to the next lane. Mind u when a car oversteers with a driver not knowing how to control the oversteer( many of singapore drivers do not anyway) can go above the speed he was actually travelling thus going over the divider is not surprising at all.
Anyway with the rear right side hitting the divider, the force will make the frontal of the car slid to the left in a 180 angle, thus causing the car to flip (not somersault that type of flip) to the oppersite lanes. before the car actually landed again on the ground (it went over the divider of course not all 4 wheels are on contact with the ground), it so happen the angle the car is facing is the front of the car facing the right side meaning oncoming vehicles is going head on to the pessenger side, the BMW came smashing onto the car. and the MX 5 is still not really on 4 wheels yet thus the impact of a 1700kg car would easily flip a 1100kg car a few rounds into mid air as the mx 5 is in midair before the impact. (Kids also will know this). Doesn't nees the MX5 or the BMW to be speeding to cause the flip... 50-60km is all it takes. the the car landed on a van...... the rest is already publish on papers.
I wouldn't say it is not his fault BUT i would say judging from the situation it is not entirely his fault too... Call him names and assume watever theory all U want. But one thing I know is that the driver is going to live with guilt for the rest of his life. He hasn't been himself and is not in a right state of mind saying weird things like " I think i should go down and say sorry to her" such stuffs.
The gal is my Fren. And my heart hurts more than any one of u here. And I so happen to also know the driver which I was damn angry with him at first but after hearing how the accident occured and seeing him ao remourseful and sucidal makes me lost and pity him too...... Anyway he will sure face his punishment from the law but his worse is to live with a guilt the rest of his life.
And if u guys wanna ask me how come i know so much details of the whole accident.........................
I rushed down to the accident scene shortly after the accident. in fact the driver was in a daze and dun really know wat happen and i got the whole story fom the workers that witness the accident and from the van driver that the MX5 landed on. Later on then i get to hear the drivers side of the story which very similialy tally with the rest of the eye witnesses.
watever it is:
To Angelia: May your soul Rest in Peace and see u in heaven when it's my turn.
To her family and Boyfrend: My heart goes out to you. Sincere consoledense.
To the Driver: You will face punishment from the law and guilt ridden for the rest of your life. But you are alive and life still goes on. I know u feel like dieing. But u have your parents to think for. We already have one tragedy where a mother lost her daughter. we dun need another one where a mother and father will lose their son.
Do u mind telling us?
The person who intro him down, knows the driver well enough, he knew the way he drive even on his own car (Reckless) but still than intro him down and he knew he got a car. Why not tell us the whole story why his down there testing the car, when he himself got a car at home. Is he too free to do other things or he is so sick of his brand new car!!!! Please tell us the story, from the start....... -
To my point the girl should not have die.
If the driver himself was not kaypo to test the car, when he's accompanying his friend to look for brand new car and where he himself got a nice car waiting for him at home, the girl will not DIE!
I feel so sorry for the girl and the family because SOMEONE who has nothing to do and feel is fun to keep testing drive alot of different cars, SHE WILL NOT DIE SO EARLY!
We may think is not really his fault for the road condition is bad. But why not knowing the starting story and say who is wrong in the first place!
SpoonX i may not know you but u seems to know lots of things. Than I believe u should know the starting story too. Why not tell us about it and start letting us know the really things. Than we will judge who is wrong? don't you think so too SpoonX. -
Originally posted by Peppersalt:
Bottom line is
To my point the girl should not have die.
If the driver himself was not kaypo to test the car, when he's accompanying his friend to look for brand new car and where he himself got a nice car waiting for him at home, the girl will not [b]DIE!
I feel so sorry for the girl and the family because SOMEONE who has nothing to do and feel is fun to keep testing drive alot of different cars, SHE WILL NOT DIE SO EARLY!
We may think is not really his fault for the road condition is bad. But why not knowing the starting story and say who is wrong in the first place!
SpoonX i may not know you but u seems to know lots of things. Than I believe u should know the starting story too. Why not tell us about it and start letting us know the really things. Than we will judge who is wrong? don't you think so too SpoonX.[/b]
Fast Car + Babes + Young Punk = Trouble -
hmmm talk about road hogging.. reminds me of that tomas rosick-ko guy that posted before in this forum that he like to road hog. that guy"s an real ass and loser..Originally posted by Gazelle:the reason why they have to sound their horn or flash their lights is because there are plenty of road hoggers in singapore who have the habit of not using rear view mirror and not giving way to faster cars. I think this has got something to do with EGO. -
Originally posted by Peppersalt:
Oh please, your thesis about the driver being "kaypo" is irrelevant. Might as well argue with his parents for giving birth to a son who will kill an innocent person. That way, his parents will have to shoulder the blame. Do not correlate his nature of being "kaypo" with the accident because when you do that, you have to take into considerations everything that precedes.
To my point the girl should not have die.
If the driver himself was not kaypo to test the car, when he's accompanying his friend to look for brand new car and where he himself got a nice car waiting for him at home, the girl will not [b]DIE!
I feel so sorry for the girl and the family because SOMEONE who has nothing to do and feel is fun to keep testing drive alot of different cars, SHE WILL NOT DIE SO EARLY!
We may think is not really his fault for the road condition is bad. But why not knowing the starting story and say who is wrong in the first place!
SpoonX i may not know you but u seems to know lots of things. Than I believe u should know the starting story too. Why not tell us about it and start letting us know the really things. Than we will judge who is wrong? don't you think so too SpoonX.[/b] -
Your bottomline is not only a generalization but also, irrelevant to this thread.Originally posted by Gazelle:Bottom line is
Fast Car + Babes + Young Punk = Trouble
No.1 being, MX-5 is not a fast car. A person who drives a Ferrari within the speed limit will be so much less of a threat than a speeding Corolla. So, you should take back your statement.
No. 2 "punk", meaning worthless or snotty, often applied to a street hustler or a young person who is disrespectful of authority, or disaffected youth; also meaning a beginner or novice.
How on earth you could even begin to label him as a punk, I have no idea. The driver is in his mid twenties with a job mind you. Moreover, he is feeling remose over what he did. A punk would not even bother to feel remorse in the first place. -
it could have been a case of coincidence. Maybe not. But we don't know enuf to say for sure that someone introduce him to her.Originally posted by Peppersalt:Who's the person who intro him down to her?
Do u mind telling us?
The person who intro him down, knows the driver well enough, he knew the way he drive even on his own car (Reckless) but still than intro him down and he knew he got a car. Why not tell us the whole story why his down there testing the car, when he himself got a car at home. Is he too free to do other things or he is so sick of his brand new car!!!! Please tell us the story, from the start....... -
Quite true.Originally posted by philia:Oh please, your thesis about the driver being "kaypo" is irrelevant. Might as well argue with his parents for giving birth to a son who will kill an innocent person. That way, his parents will have to shoulder the blame. Do not correlate his nature of being "kaypo" with the accident because when you do that, you have to take into considerations everything that precedes.
Perhaps ultimately we should not be judging the driver as of now, but rather, thinking about the physics involved in freak coincidence which caused the accident. -
Exactly. My point being that this is an accident and therefore the nature of accident should be thoroughly contemplated and revised before hand. If this is a murder case, then you are free to do your finger-pointing at the murderer. But sadly, people are responding to this incident like that of a murder case.Originally posted by HENG@:Quite true.
Perhaps ultimately we should not be judging the driver as of now, but rather, thinking about the physics involved in freak coincidence which caused the accident. -
I agree.Originally posted by philia:Exactly. My point being that this is an accident and therefore the nature of accident should be thoroughly contemplated and revised before hand. If this is a murder case, then you are free to do your finger-pointing at the murderer. But sadly, people are responding to this incident like that of a murder case.
Honestly tho, b4 this case I've never really considered the implications a car's weight will have on losing control, nor the implications of a car's weight on curb impact.