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    <title>Recent Posts in 'How do you deal with tailgaters' | sgForums.com</title>
    <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
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    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Watch It! @ Thu, 05 Jun 2008 00:23:42 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;big flashing lights and piercing sounds should do it ...&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 00:23:42 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8141496</guid>
      <author>Watch It!</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by mancha @ Sat, 31 May 2008 01:26:42 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by pprince.quan:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;as i'm riding so if i see cars on the outer right lane moving
very slowly i will change to lane 2 and check for safety before
over-taking..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I sometimes do this. At exits of expressways.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Exits to expressways usually have a dedicated turn-left lane
marked by dotted lines. The lane to the right of this, is the split
lane, ie. straight-and-left arrow lane.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sometimes when I am in a&amp;nbsp;convoy at the
dedicated&amp;nbsp;turning lane, a hotshot would zoom in and squeeze
into the stopping distance space infront of me. This would cause
him to tailgate the vehicle infront and I tailgatting him. If the
right lane is clear&amp;nbsp;I would then change lane and drive/ride
along side the hotshot, and exit the expressway. That driver
usually a late 20-30 male&amp;nbsp;would look straight,
not&amp;nbsp;wanting to look&amp;nbsp;in my direction. I think he realise
that he need not cut into my path, and that he could&amp;nbsp;easily
make the exit from the split lane. Ha! some expert.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 01:26:42 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8127295</guid>
      <author>mancha</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Froz3nFir3 @ Thu, 29 May 2008 17:47:50 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by pprince.quan:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;as i'm riding so if i see cars on the outer right lane moving
very slowly i will change to lane 2 and check for safety before
over-taking..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
You are being nice...&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 17:47:50 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8123795</guid>
      <author>Froz3nFir3</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by pprince.quan @ Wed, 28 May 2008 02:41:20 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;as i'm riding so if i see cars on the outer right lane moving
very slowly i will change to lane 2 and check for safety before
over-taking..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:41:20 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8119603</guid>
      <author>pprince.quan</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Froz3nFir3 @ Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:13:58 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mount a remote operated .5MG at the rear and shoot them.&lt;img src=
"http://sgforums.com/images/emoticons/classic/icon_lol.gif" alt=
"icon_lol.gif" /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lol.. For me.. I need one in front.. Hehe..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:13:58 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8044465</guid>
      <author>Froz3nFir3</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by sinicker @ Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:55:16 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;on PIE that bloody straight toh guan stretch.. i always travel
120 on lane 1. but at times still encounter road hoggers doing 80
on that lane when lane 2 is clear.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
other stretches i follow speed limit or just make it a point to
keep overtaking cars on lane 2 lor... if really got faster car
behind, give way lor. i had my experiences where i had to drive
damn fast to make it to places..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:55:16 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8044440</guid>
      <author>sinicker</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Froz3nFir3 @ Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:34:56 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by Naughtius
Maximus:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Agreed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Agreed. 2.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:34:56 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8044398</guid>
      <author>Froz3nFir3</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by 16/f/lonely @ Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:21:16 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by :: sun chaser
:::&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ooooh .. just a question for singapore drivers , how do you deal
with tailgaters? They are really pissing me off .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mount a remote operated .5MG at the rear and shoot them.&lt;img src=
"http://sgforums.com/images/emoticons/classic/icon_lol.gif" alt=
"icon_lol.gif" /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:21:16 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8040943</guid>
      <author>16/f/lonely</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Naughtius Maximus @ Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:08:23 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by KLZW:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;"please keep left unless overtaking"&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;on roads with such signs, i'll let whoever is faster pass when
i'm in the rightmost lane. Its irritating to see road hoggers in tt
lane when u're in a hurry, wadever the speed limit.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Agreed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:08:23 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8040916</guid>
      <author>Naughtius Maximus</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by KLZW @ Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:14:28 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;"please keep left unless overtaking"&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;on roads with such signs, i'll let whoever is faster pass when
i'm in the rightmost lane. Its irritating to see road hoggers in tt
lane when u're in a hurry, wadever the speed limit.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:14:28 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8039503</guid>
      <author>KLZW</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Froz3nFir3 @ Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:17:23 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by tofushop193:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i give way to the guy and tail gate him back&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Swee le.. But his car more powerful how?? Smell the exhaust?? I
wished i could do that sometimes.. But i'm usually the one
tailgating.. Hha&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:17:23 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8035791</guid>
      <author>Froz3nFir3</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by mancha @ Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:55:45 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;The "passenger" of SJ 1 would not make a report, as he is
"travelling at 100 on a 90..." he should be covering his face
instead, and deny its "him"&amp;nbsp; in the vehicle. Maybe the
"passenger" censured the driver for tailgating&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:55:45 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8021004</guid>
      <author>mancha</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Naughtius Maximus @ Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:30:08 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by kopiosatu:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i usually open throttle and they can't catch up.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;img src="/images/emoticons/kde-3.5.8/redones/biggrin.png" alt=
"biggrin.png" /&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;img src=
"/images/emoticons/kde-3.5.8/KMess-Cartoon/wink.png" alt=
"wink.png" /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:30:08 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8020998</guid>
      <author>Naughtius Maximus</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by sinicker @ Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:57:51 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;why SJ? why not SCJ 1 ?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;like this people can recognise better.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
SCJ normal car plate. even tho with the number 1. people may think
it's a bidded number?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
SJ, SP.. what else are there..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:57:51 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8020877</guid>
      <author>sinicker</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by so_nice @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:10:16 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;if pple tailgate me just gif way lor. if not KUI and let him
cannot catch up. NA vs NA i think my car should be able to pull
away bah.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if kanna road hogger, just over take even if he is on lane 1. if
i'm free, i will overtake him and go infront to slow down. force
him to change lanes then i resume course. haha.&lt;img src=
"/images/emoticons/classic/icon_lol.gif" alt="icon_lol.gif" /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:10:16 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8020452</guid>
      <author>so_nice</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by BangHong @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:02:03 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by tofushop193:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i give way to the guy and tail gate him back&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i would rather do this too&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:02:03 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8020425</guid>
      <author>BangHong</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by tofushop193 @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:29:46 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;i give way to the guy and tail gate him back&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:29:46 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8020054</guid>
      <author>tofushop193</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Altis84 @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:54:27 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;Please ask yourself why people tailgate you in the first
place?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Are you hogging the righte lane of the expressway @ 60-80km/h?
If you are... you should keep to your left and let them pass.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you are travelling fast enuff to be on the right lane.
Just&amp;nbsp; carry on the ignore the tailgater.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:54:27 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8019745</guid>
      <author>Altis84</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Caligynephobia @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:36:58 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;what i'd do if someone tailgates me?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i'll turn on the rear windscreen wipers and play with my
indicator lights. so he knows that i'm aware he's trying to get
past me but yet i will not budge.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:36:58 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8019272</guid>
      <author>Caligynephobia</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by alwaysdisturbed @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:17:57 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by sinicker:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
i think it's ferrying the chief justice?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
correct me if i'm wrong, anyone.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;why SJ? why not SCJ 1 ?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;like this people can recognise better.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:17:57 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8018856</guid>
      <author>alwaysdisturbed</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by sinicker @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:07:38 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by Froz3nFir3:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I still dunno wat 'SJ 1' means...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
i think it's ferrying the chief justice?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
correct me if i'm wrong, anyone.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:07:38 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8018717</guid>
      <author>sinicker</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by Froz3nFir3 @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:25:26 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by Master -_-:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;one time i was travelling on lane 1..then got this black merc
behind me..travelling at 100 on a 90...high beam me...tailgate
me..at ecp from Benjamin Sheares there..played around with him by
intermittenly braking ,reducing and speeding...until bayshore there
where he finally overtook me...the driver glared at me...and kinda
gesticulate me to "look at his passenger" that kind of signal...it
was at night then and the windows were completely tinted..but i
thanked my lucky stars nothing happened to me after that when i
found out what "SJ 1" means &lt;img src=
"/images/emoticons/classic/icon_lol.gif" alt="icon_lol.gif" /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I still dunno wat 'SJ 1' means...&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:25:26 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8018620</guid>
      <author>Froz3nFir3</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by kopiosatu @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 04:02:45 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;i usually open throttle and they can't catch up.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 04:02:45 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8018282</guid>
      <author>kopiosatu</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by mancha @ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:13:23 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by casshern:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i really wonder what's wrong with just giving way....&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The are places in our expressway system where you just can't
give way, like at the exits and at some connectors which are just
two lanes. You can't give way, and that tailgater can't overtake,
due to traffic alongside.&amp;nbsp;And that guy two feet behind
you&amp;nbsp;believe that you will not&amp;nbsp;brake suddenly.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And where it is possible to give way, it is also possible to
overtake, even if&amp;nbsp;from the left.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:13:23 +0800</pubDate>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">sgforums.com:2:314385:8018250</guid>
      <author>mancha</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How do you deal with tailgaters replied by haruhatsu @ Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:11:16 +0800</title>
      <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_from"&gt;Originally posted by caleb_chiang:&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="quote_body"&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Common sense... you have to give way to ambulances man! Everytime
an ambulance is behind me, I'll try to squeeze my way out of the
lane no matter how jammed the situation is... Cos it would means
that there usually is an accident ahead when the road is
jammed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And of course... at SG, max speed is at 90 for most
expressway... people do have the right to drive 80~90 on the 1st
lane but it would be polite to give way. As for the tailgaters, if
obviously the 2nd land is clear to allow you to overtake, you
should do so if the person in front is not giving way.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It will do you more good to overtake than to tailgate...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Tats y... this rule somehow apply to pple who run faster than u
on 1st lane, u should try give way instead of road hog the rd n
trying to tap on the brake to aggitate the other party.&amp;nbsp;Btw,
1st lane is for overtaking, not for pple to think they have the
right to maintain at 1st lane eventhough they travel at 90. And to
emphasis again, by overtaking fr the left will not only endanger ur
own life, also to others as well. Dun believe, check with TP, its
not recommended. But of coz, if u confidence to overtake fr the
left w/o endanger anyone, go ahead. Wat i trying to imply here is,
if&amp;nbsp;anyone r slower, go aside, dun block the whole Singaporean
on the rd.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:11:16 +0800</pubDate>
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      <author>haruhatsu</author>
      <link>http://sgforums.com/forums/2/topics/314385</link>
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