Asannasatta replied by An Eternal Now @ Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:23:00 +0800

An Eternal Now — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:23:00 +0800

Originally posted by Tenzin:

I can't really give a very good answer, but this is what I told him earlier: It's not really a 'body' they are talking about there. They have a 'form' rather. Why no mind? It's because they lack certain constituents to allow us to refer it as mind. Remember what I said about the functions of the mind? If you take out 1 leg of a stool, could you still refer it as a stool by itself? It'll collapse with just 2 legs, how could that function as a stool anymore? As to what exactly is lacking, I'm clueless still.

Don't take my words for it. Please take heed the Kalama Sutta and find out for yourself what it really is. The theoretical answer lies in the Tipitaka if you explore it well enough. On an experiencial level, you'll have to practise well enough.

Oic...

Asannasatta replied by Iker-X-of-Bodh @ Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:18:38 +0800

Iker-X-of-Bodh — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:18:38 +0800

whoa.. Tenzin....
I find that u have become more philosophical after the Zen Conference.
Well u've always been very philosophical though,,, haha
HAT!

Asannasatta replied by Tenzin @ Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:05:38 +0800

Tenzin — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:05:38 +0800

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Hmm, why dont Tenzin tell us the answer? We're interested to know

I can't really give a very good answer, but this is what I told him earlier: It's not really a 'body' they are talking about there. They have a 'form' rather. Why no mind? It's because they lack certain constituents to allow us to refer it as mind. Remember what I said about the functions of the mind? If you take out 1 leg of a stool, could you still refer it as a stool by itself? It'll collapse with just 2 legs, how could that function as a stool anymore? As to what exactly is lacking, I'm clueless still.

Don't take my words for it. Please take heed the Kalama Sutta and find out for yourself what it really is. The theoretical answer lies in the Tipitaka if you explore it well enough. On an experiencial level, you'll have to practise well enough.

Asannasatta replied by An Eternal Now @ Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:26:42 +0800

An Eternal Now — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:26:42 +0800

Hmm, why dont Tenzin tell us the answer? We're interested to know

Asannasatta replied by Tenzin @ Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:26:10 +0800

Tenzin — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:26:10 +0800

Even right now there is no 'I', so just let it go

Hehe. That's right. By right, there is no 'I'. But now we all still believe (deep inside) it's by left. So shall we stay here for good as long as we believe that way.

Asannasatta replied by An Eternal Now @ Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:15:59 +0800

An Eternal Now — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:15:59 +0800

Originally posted by Iker-X-of-Bodh:

Yes indeed i made a mistake.
I meant a body without the mind.
I have to admit I must have clinb onto the 'I' a lot.
A realm where beings possess body but no mind frightened me when i first saw it!

Even right now there is no 'I', so just let it go

Asannasatta replied by Iker-X-of-Bodh @ Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:05:04 +0800

Iker-X-of-Bodh — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:05:04 +0800

Yes indeed i made a mistake.
I meant a body without the mind.
I have to admit I must have clinb onto the 'I' a lot.
A realm where beings possess body but no mind frightened me when i first saw it!

Asannasatta replied by An Eternal Now @ Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:00:20 +0800

An Eternal Now — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:00:20 +0800

Originally posted by LinYu:

This stage is known as the astro-body stage. This is very similar to the out-of-body experience(OBE). You may have heard whereby someone in the operating theatre being operated but have experience whereby they were floating on top of the ceiling watching their body being operated on.

They were able to tell what happen in the operating theatre although there were suppose to be unconscious in the theatre after the operation.

One of the stages in the 4th jhana speaks of thus.

I have heard of my dad who told me that during one of his meditation session, he had experience whereby he saw himself sitting in a corner meditating. then he began to ask himself. if this is me sitting meditating, then who is that who sees him sitting meditating. Because of the attachment of body being "I", he actually came out of his mediation frighten.

Having spoken to his teacher after the experience, he was told that the untrained one would cling to the body as "I" therefore he did not understood the meaning of noself.

I think Iker-X-of-Bodh made a mistake, asannasatta beings have body but no consciousness (6 sense consciousness), not the other way round.

But I agree with you about our attachment to body.. ya, out-of-body experiences do happen, I have heard about it from my friends too.

Asannasatta replied by LinYu @ Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:44:32 +0800

LinYu — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:44:32 +0800

This stage is known as the astro-body stage. This is very similar to the out-of-body experience(OBE). You may have heard whereby someone in the operating theatre being operated but have experience whereby they were floating on top of the ceiling watching their body being operated on.

They were able to tell what happen in the operating theatre although there were suppose to be unconscious in the theatre after the operation.

One of the stages in the 4th jhana speaks of thus.

I have heard of my dad who told me that during one of his meditation session, he had experience whereby he saw himself sitting in a corner meditating. then he began to ask himself. if this is me sitting meditating, then who is that who sees him sitting meditating. Because of the attachment of body being "I", he actually came out of his mediation frighten.

Having spoken to his teacher after the experience, he was told that the untrained one would cling to the body as "I" therefore he did not understood the meaning of noself.

Asannasatta replied by An Eternal Now @ Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:21:13 +0800

An Eternal Now — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:21:13 +0800

Originally posted by Iker-X-of-Bodh:

In the second highest heavenly stage of the Fine-Material World (rupa-loka), there is the stage of Unconscious beings (asaññasatta) where inhabitants possess mind but no body.

I think you made a mistake.

It should be 'inhabitants possess a body, but no mind'

IMHO, not sure if this is correct, I think mindless/consciousness-less means the 6 sense consciousness is temporarily suspended, yet the fundamental ignorance of a 'self' continues to function, and therefore the karmic seeds are still defiled.

From the mind-only school point of view, such a being although the 6 sense consciousness is suspended, his 7th consciousness (consciousness of an egoic self) still exists, and the 8th consciousness (the storehouse consciousness)

http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/Yogacara/8cons%20004.jpg

- Yogacara sch on Jhana and Consciousness

* The eighth consciousness contains seeds, karmic potentials created by previous karmic activities. The seeds ripen and become actual dharmas as they are "perfumed" by the karmic activity of the first seven consciousnesses. The image here is built on an analogy with of sesame seeds, which take on the fragrance of the sesame plant's flowers or of any fragrance with which they come into contact.

Asannasatta replied by An Eternal Now @ Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:19:13 +0800

An Eternal Now — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:19:13 +0800

Originally posted by bohiruci:

erm thats is too deep ask eternal now to give the resource bah

No la, Tenzin should know better

Asannasatta replied by bohiruci @ Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:07:37 +0800

bohiruci — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:07:37 +0800

Originally posted by Iker-X-of-Bodh:

In the second highest heavenly stage of the Fine-Material World (rupa-loka), there is the stage of Unconscious beings (asaññasatta) where inhabitants possess mind but no body.

To reach the above mention states, one must at least reach Fourth Jhana in previous life.

Why could a body exits without the mind? Though Tenzin did explained before but would like to hear everyone's views.

erm thats is too deep ask eternal now to give the resource bah

well , u can go check out venerable sayadaw website for more information

sadhu sadhu sadhu

Asannasatta replied by Iker-X-of-Bodh @ Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:58:38 +0800

Iker-X-of-Bodh — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:58:38 +0800

In the second highest heavenly stage of the Fine-Material World (rupa-loka), there is the stage of Unconscious beings (asaññasatta) where inhabitants possess mind but no body.

To reach the above mention states, one must at least reach Fourth Jhana in previous life.

Why could a body exits without the mind? Though Tenzin did explained before but would like to hear everyone's views.

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