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Originally posted by breytonhartge:wait you are talking about the roman catholics right? I think the christians do not worship the holy man's mother...
what? you should read the protestant fathers' stand on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
it is a sticky in the RC forum - http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=154829
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Originally posted by Icemoon:what? you should read the protestant fathers' stand on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
it is a sticky in the RC forum - http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=154829What we know for certain is that Joseph "had no union with her until she gave birth to a son" (Matthew 1:25). The "until" seems to imply that he did enjoy sexual union with Mary after Christ's birth. There is no indication that their abstinence was permanent.
so how?
are both the RC church and the protestant church
deluded? or do they only see what they want to see.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:What we know for certain is that Joseph "had no union with her until she gave birth to a son" (Matthew 1:25). The "until" seems to imply that he did enjoy sexual union with Mary after Christ's birth. There is no indication that their abstinence was permanent.
so how?
are both the RC church and the protestant church
deluded? or do they only see what they want to see.Actually the fact that Mary was mentioned with other four women in the genealogy - Rehab, Tamar, Bathsheba and Ruth - tells us something.
Edited by Icemoon 10 Jan `08, 1:40PM
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:What we know for certain is that Joseph "had no union with her until she gave birth to a son" (Matthew 1:25). The "until" seems to imply that he did enjoy sexual union with Mary after Christ's birth. There is no indication that their abstinence was permanent.
so how?
are both the RC church and the protestant church
deluded? or do they only see what they want to see.ok... this part is debatable.... though you were right on this in that there is no conclusive indication that their abstinence was permanent, there is on the flip side neither conclusive indication that their abstinence was not permanent.
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Originally posted by Icemoon:what? you should read the protestant fathers' stand on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
it is a sticky in the RC forum - http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=154829on the topic Perpetual Virginity of Mary, it only show 2 things
1) Mary remains a Virgin till death.
2) Mary was highly honored.
ask any Catholics... most if not all will dispute worshiping her.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:doesn't the doctrine of the trinity have pagan roots?
Might not be.
The doctrine might be similar to certain pagan ideas, but it might not originate from those pagan ideas.
Edit: As an example, look at animal sacrifice in the OT. You wouldn't say it has pagan roots also right?Edited by Icemoon 22 Jan `08, 8:59PM
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Originally posted by Icemoon:Might not be.
The doctrine might be similar to certain pagan ideas, but it might not originate from those pagan ideas.
Edit: As an example, look at animal sacrifice in the OT. You wouldn't say it has pagan roots also right?what about Constantine the great? was he not instrumental in this doctrine being put forward.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:what about Constantine the great? was he not instrumental in this doctrine being put forward.
You watched too much DVC liao issit?
I'd say Constantine was only instrumental in convening the council, not the doctrine.
If you have no issue with the Brit Chadasha, then you should know the seeds of the Trinity are sowed in the gospel, particularly Yohann.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:It's with reference to the doctrine of Trinitarianism, but it was my way of saying that we do not worship the Blessed Virgin Mary or the saints.
according to the Brit Chadashah, Mary was not a virgin... Mattityahu 21:25
... but he did not have sexual relations with her until she had given birth to a son, and he named him Yeshua.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:according to the Brit Chadashah, Mary was not a virgin... Mattityahu 21:25
... but he did not have sexual relations with her until she had given birth to a son, and he named him Yeshua.
strange.... Mattiyahu 21:25 The immersion of Yochanan, where was it from? From heaven or from men?"
They reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask us, 'Why then did you not believe him?'
where got say Mary was not a virgin????
somemore.....
Mattiyahu 1:22 Now all this has happened, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying,
1:23"Behold, the virgin shall be with child,
And shall bring forth a son.
They shall call his name Immanu'el;"
Which is, being interpreted, "God with us."
1:24Yosef arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took his wife to himself; 1:25and didn't know her sexually until she had brought forth her firstborn son. He named him Yeshua.
... so Mary was virgin or not hah?
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
strange.... Mattiyahu 21:25 The immersion of Yochanan, where was it from? From heaven or from men?"
They reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask us, 'Why then did you not believe him?'
where got say Mary was not a virgin????
somemore.....
Mattiyahu 1:22 Now all this has happened, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying,
1:23"Behold, the [b]virgin shall be with child,
And shall bring forth a son.
They shall call his name Immanu'el;"
Which is, being interpreted, "God with us."
1:24Yosef arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took his wife to himself; 1:25and didn't know her sexually until she had brought forth her firstborn son. He named him Yeshua.
... so Mary was virgin or not hah?
[/b]then follow on to verse 25... Yosef did not have sexual relations with her UNTIL she had given birth to Yeshua. So to still call her a virgin is denying reality. She is not. After the birth of Yeshua she was not. So why still call her a virgin?
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