I think that the goverment shall abolish NS 4 the seek of Male.Cos i think that it is an extra 4 male to go ns.Come on! Man !Singapore is so small.Any countries who want to invade us so easy man donn need fight 1.Jus ask them to split saliver and we will be over-flooded in no time.Or perhaps they jus walk or swim in openly.Singapore prison will soon be full man.
What's there to fight for.Any bomb drop from the sky there goes our famous Changi Airport.
Another Bomb drop there goes our famous Orchard Rd.There is nothing we can do.
If not singapore goverment can hired oversea talents ----other country army and paid them high salary.Singapore ns man are too cheap man one day only $8.I rather pay goverment $10 per day to exchange my freedom.
The males are disadvantage cos they got to serve ns.2-2half years.What they study has a already forgotten.They are already behind the ladies and the world.
Singapore is too small.We got to keep moving at all times in order to keep up with the time.But the ns take most of our precious time especially the "Golden Time" where we are so energetic at age 18-23.This is the time where our talent and rooms of capablity can be seen.
I really hope that the grieve can be ......
cure in no time.
I hope that somebody will see from my point of view.

------------------

You sound more like a 'I-don't-want-to-go-NS' kind of person than defending political issues.

------------------
Are Japanese school uniforms the best looking ones?

yawn...
who cares
hahaha

ya loh, the government can also save the funding that goes to SAF

RESERVIST LOH!!!!!!!!!!! then again... i ord-ed so long ago.. it's numb....

just a loser from VJC 93S23

Originally posted by MIKEN80:

I think that the goverment shall abolish NS 4 the seek of Male.Cos i think that it is an extra 4 male to go ns.Come on! Man !Singapore is so small.Any countries who want to invade us so easy man donn need fight 1.Jus ask them to split saliver and we will be over-flooded in no time.Or perhaps they jus walk or swim in openly.Singapore prison will soon be full man.
What's there to fight for.Any bomb drop from the sky there goes our famous Changi Airport.
Another Bomb drop there goes our famous Orchard Rd.There is nothing we can do.
If not singapore goverment can hired oversea talents ----other country army and paid them high salary.Singapore ns man are too cheap man one day only $8.I rather pay goverment $10 per day to exchange my freedom.
The males are disadvantage cos they got to serve ns.2-2half years.What they study has a already forgotten.They are already behind the ladies and the world.
Singapore is too small.We got to keep moving at all times in order to keep up with the time.But the ns take most of our precious time especially the "Golden Time" where we are so energetic at age 18-23.This is the time where our talent and rooms of capablity can be seen.
I really hope that the grieve can be ......
cure in no time.
I hope that somebody will see from my point of view.

Then who is going to defend our nation should the need arise? Maybe we should just give up and surrender? Maybe you'll be happy then.

Miken80: Its not that i like ns or anyuthing. I think like everyone else. thinking its a chore. But if no one goes to server the national, our neighbours will come get us just like that. And when other investor sees us as a weak country, do you think they will still invest in us? Do you think you'll be using your computer your parents bought you now? And for your info, Singapore's orchard road will never be bombed, unless the enenmy is you or only wants to invade for fun (crazy?). Why will anyone want to take over singapore? Why? Ask your self. do we have natural resources? No. We only have a built up infrastructure, and human resources. So should anyone want singapore, it'll be for our high rise buildings. If bomb come... high rise down. then what the fark for?

Come on Miken.... wake up

Originally posted by MIKEN80:

I think that the goverment shall abolish NS 4 the seek of Male.Cos i think that it is an extra 4 male to go ns.Come on! Man !Singapore is so small.Any countries who want to invade us so easy man donn need fight 1.Jus ask them to split saliver and we will be over-flooded in no time.Or perhaps they jus walk or swim in openly.Singapore prison will soon be full man.
What's there to fight for.Any bomb drop from the sky there goes our famous Changi Airport.
Another Bomb drop there goes our famous Orchard Rd.There is nothing we can do.
If not singapore goverment can hired oversea talents ----other country army and paid them high salary.Singapore ns man are too cheap man one day only $8.I rather pay goverment $10 per day to exchange my freedom.
The males are disadvantage cos they got to serve ns.2-2half years.What they study has a already forgotten.They are already behind the ladies and the world.
Singapore is too small.We got to keep moving at all times in order to keep up with the time.But the ns take most of our precious time especially the "Golden Time" where we are so energetic at age 18-23.This is the time where our talent and rooms of capablity can be seen.
I really hope that the grieve can be ......
cure in no time.
I hope that somebody will see from my point of view.

First post was on Dec 12 2000.

I guess this fella enlisted on the Dec 13 2000.

I should know. I did
Oh well... just f-it and do it... and if you like it, sign on. If not, ORD and go study... come back with a degree.

Don't whine like a pussy.

My birthday is on 13 december!

y0u can ch0p off y0ur D**k & be a transvestite!

Great soluti0n! isn't it?!

come on....
people says that JC males are sissies who are scare of things... and dun wanna go NS...
Do u wanna be of them?
DO you know the true meaning of NS?
If not, you should go back to pri and sec to study again, duh....
We say many times NS and Strong SAF is important.. Maybe you should talk to your MP or Mr Lee Kaun Yew on abolishing NS....
Stop this nonsense SISSY and be a MAN~!~!

Originally posted by MIKEN80:

I think that the goverment shall abolish NS 4 the seek of Male.Cos i think that it is an extra 4 male to go ns.Come on! Man !Singapore is so small.Any countries who want to invade us so easy man donn need fight 1.Jus ask them to split saliver and we will be over-flooded in no time.Or perhaps they jus walk or swim in openly.Singapore prison will soon be full man.
What's there to fight for.Any bomb drop from the sky there goes our famous Changi Airport.
Another Bomb drop there goes our famous Orchard Rd.There is nothing we can do.
If not singapore goverment can hired oversea talents ----other country army and paid them high salary.Singapore ns man are too cheap man one day only $8.I rather pay goverment $10 per day to exchange my freedom.
The males are disadvantage cos they got to serve ns.2-2half years.What they study has a already forgotten.They are already behind the ladies and the world.
Singapore is too small.We got to keep moving at all times in order to keep up with the time.But the ns take most of our precious time especially the "Golden Time" where we are so energetic at age 18-23.This is the time where our talent and rooms of capablity can be seen.
I really hope that the grieve can be ......
cure in no time.
I hope that somebody will see from my point of view.

i don;t see ur point of view.
been through history lesson?
i think u need to go to pri sch right up to sec sch or wateva to get some knowledge of history into ur head.
sure sure...and we rely on foreign countries to fence us off against agressor countries....

I am going to ORD this June and my 2 years plus have been spent cheongsuahing up and down Lim chu kang and all I can say is (quoting my S2)

SAF = serve and fuckoff

Frankly speaking, my personal view is that NS is def. a MUST for S'pore who is in a unique dilemma.

But i def. disagree with the duration of NS that we guys must serve. eg 2 or 2.5 yrs depending on your qualifications.
I'm 20+ going to ORD in 2 mths time. From my experience in the army, one's can easily finish his vocation training and go for his unit overseas trg (ie. usually twice to diff. countries )

All these things can be wrapped up in 1.5 yrs time or 2 yrs. Officers aside, whose trg in OCS is longer, the rest of the guys can learn all they are required to be combat operationally ready in 1.5 yrs.
For officers, i tink it's more realistically to say that they require 2 yrs to serve their NS.

This view of mine was formed when i realised most of the time we spent in camp is on stuff, such as area cleaning, do manual work i.e carrying things to n for , etc.
It makes one wonders if the S'pore Govt. is doing the right thing to S'pore since we r a civilian army. It takes away much needed manpower from our economy!!!

Hmm....tat all i 've to conclude haha....
feel free to respond

actually i feel ns is good for us… teaches us lots of impt things… but come on lah… defend singapore from foriegn countries?? no chance… even though s’pore got superior technology… its just too small… and its the land size that is singapores trouble… not the number of fighting people.. Face the facts… singapore cannot defend itself from bombs… only can fight ppl… so they must do the next best thing… ally themselves with powewrful countries such as china or india so they dont kena bombed by a certain neighbour… and 2.5-3 yrs is too bloody long… we can learn the same thing within 1-1.5 yrs… really… but this is my opinion… anyone care to rebut?

I personally think all Singapore citizens should serve NS, and not just us guys. I'll post something i wrote on another topic.
http://www.sgforums.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/009951.html

Some parts may be irrelevent but the idea is there. Let me know your thoughts.

"they cant solve..unless they make a law...state that if a person dun get married at a certain age or dun be parent at a certain age, they will go jail.. " - Inzaghi
To a certain extent, I can't agree more to that, except that law should only apply to women. I'm not trying to be a chauvinist here...just hear out my explanation.

Childbirth has always been regarded as a woman's form of National Service, and is also the reason as to why they're exempted from serving NS like all the other physically fit males in Singapore.

However, what has been happening, is that the birth rate has been falling, and as a result, we are quickly losing our only valuable resource (people). Also, because of the falling number of people, and thus males in Singapore, the pool of active NS-men at any given time is getting smaller and smaller. What the government has been doing is increasing the time males have to serve in NS and requiring reservist to be active until the age of 50(? i'm not too sure about the exact age, sorry), to make up for it.

Think about it this way. When NS was made compulsary in Singapore, failure to enlist for NS should you meet the requirements, was and still is a crime punishable by law. How is it that women's NS (childbirth) in Singapore is a moral obligation, but men's NS in Singapore, is a legally compulsary obligation?

As a result of women's failure to do their "NS" (childbirth), men in Singapore have to serve longer NS. Can't it be said that men are in fact doing NS for those women that don't do theirs?

Screw all the bullshit about women not being as physically fit as men to do NS.

Firstly, doing NS doesn't mean having to serve in the military, where physical fitness is for the most part, a must. Women can do other less physically intensive tasks, that men who are not physically fit do in NS.

Secondly, aren't the female track & field runners, softballers, netballers, etc, physically fit? Sure, they -may- not be as fit as the male track & field runners, softballers, etc, but they're definitely fitter than the average Joe Singaporeon who has to serve NS, just because he is supposed to be fitter. If indeed women were so physically unfit, then they should be banned from participating in all sports events. Since that isn't and shouldn't be the case, then I don't see why they aren't required to serve NS, like the other half of Singapore's populace. In the NCC, there are girls who can run faster, shoot more accurately, and march straighter than some of the boys. If said boys have to serve NS when they reach 18, why shouldn't those girls have to as well? Woudln't not requiring those girls to serve NS, be a waste of our human resources, which the government is always talking about maximizing?

Thirdly, having to serve NS is actually a violation of human rights. Go look up Article 20 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Now although that is the case, I also see the need for NS because without it, we would be rendered defenceless. However, this lack of a human right is only reserved as a "privilege" for male citizens in Singapore. Such a practice is more commonly know as sexual discrimination or profiling, which is on par and no better than racial or religious discrimination. If the government wants to revoke that human right, at least extent the lack of it to everyone, instead of just the men. SM Lee is always wondering how the Israelis manage to defend themselves so effectively when they are surrounded by so many hostile nations. Well, I don't know how much it would actually help but for starters, they require all citizens to serve NS, and that includes both men and women. If Singapore did the same, we would effectivly double the number of people serving NS. I seriously wonder why our government hasn't thought of this or at least if they have, why they haven't implemented it.

All I've said so far probably begs the question, of how this would help with the falling birth rate.

Well, I propose compulsary NS for all men and women in Singapore. Childbirth for women, like the lack of physical fitness for men, would be a reason for exemption from NS. There would be a standard physical fitness requirement that would apply to both males and females, which would decide what jobs they would have to do in NS. That way, all physically fit males and females would have to do stuff like combat roles, etc, and those less fit would do less intensive stuff like admin jobs, etc.

Anyway, I think I could go on forever about the unfairness about NS and other sexual discrimination against men issues but I think what I've said should be enough for now...I'll post this article I read on some website a while back. Its written by an American, about how he was forced to fight in Vietnam a long time ago when the U.S. also had conscription. Its rather relevant to the situation in Singapore I think...Any thoughts on my post and the article?

p.s. I could post more articles related to this if requested

How Come Men Have to Register
for The Military Draft and Women Don't?
A look at gender roles, citizenship, and the distorted
equality paradigm propagated by ideological feminism.
As reported by
RICH ZUBATY
from a small island in the
SOUTH PACIFIC

I'm sorry I can't be with you at the 1998 American Men's Studies Association conference to lead a discussion about what I consider to be the most egregious omission of modern feminism -- registering women for the military draft. Debates about "glass ceilings" and "sexual harassment" are trivial in comparison with getting shot at in foreign lands defending the interests of U.S. corporations. If feminists were truly interested in Equality, rather than gaining ever more special privileges for women, they would be proactively lobbying the Congress and the courts to register women for Selective Service.

Is it not the very meaning of citizenship that the citizen of a state is obligated to protect and defend that form of government which affords her the privileges and protections of citizenship? How come, when women got the right to vote, they were not instantly saddled with the responsibility to fight in war to defend their right to vote? What mysterious, archaic gender paradigms populate our psyches, blinding us to the actual spectrum of issues which constitute "equality" and "citizenship"? Who has managed to control the gender equality debate to the extent that Selective Service registration has remained absent from it for 70 years? Why do they do it? What deeper paradigms are they skirting, glossing over, concealing? And...given that men are expected to fight in war and women are not, is it not possible to conclude that men are NOT the oppressors of women, but that men are, in fact, the PROTECTORS of women?

Right now I am somewhat willingly stranded on a small island in the South Pacific. There are no roads, no cars, no electricity, no phones. My hosts are in great part a hunter/gatherer culture. I spend my days with the men, fishing and collecting fruits: papaya, breadfruit, coconuts, bananas. The women stick close to home, sweeping the packed earth around their coconut leaf huts, shooing pigs out of the garden, collecting shellfish off the reef at low tide. Both men and women cook and tend the infants, depending upon who is not engaged in some other activity at the time. As other researchers have pointed out, there is less division of labor in both hunter/gatherer and "information age" societies than in the agricultural and industrial societies of recent epochs.

But the dangerous work is still done by the men. Women don't climb coconut trees (fat as I am, neither do I). Women don't ride small boats out into huge waves to catch fish. Women are not drafted in time of war. As in Europe and America, most families here are de facto matriarchies, governed by the iron will of the eldest surviving family member -- almost always a female. Men appear to have a great deal of autonomy while they're alive, but they simply do not last as long as women. While young women complain about social restrictions and lack of freedom, old women govern the wealth of the family -- in Europe, America, and the South Pacific. Thus, the very things that feminists complain about, are the things that ensure women's eventual dominion over the accumulated resources of the family. The men lead tough, dangerous lives, die sooner, and the family wealth devolves into the hands of the elder women.

"Equality" is not age specific. It's meaningless to ask whether men and women are treated equally at the age of 18, 35, 72. Equality embraces a lifetime of events. And it's clear -- in Europe, America, and the South Pacific -- that over a lifetime women possess more security and authority than men. Why? Because men willingly sacrifice their well being for women. Because men are the protectors and defenders of women. Because men die for women.

Why do they do it?

Because women are widely regarded to be more valuable than men. Women make babies. A deep biological imperative within men supports the notion that women and babies must be protected and defended. That's why there are male feminists. Male feminists are men expressing their innate urge to protect and defend women. Challenging and critiquing women runs against our character. We hate fighting with women.

So what about military service? Is draft registration a moot point since we're not at war? A young man I know of was recently booted out of an Ivy League school -- lost his admission and scholarship -- when it was discovered he had neglected to register for the draft. The school received federal funds, one requirement of which is that all males over the age of 18 must be registered for the Selective Service. The school could lose it's federal money if it doesn't comply, so the young man gets the "heave ho" -- instantly -- no appeal. Female co-eds need not worry about this sort of career disruption.

Bills have been sponsored in the U.S. Congress to register women for Selective Service. They did not pass. They got no feminist support. Moreover, since it is the policy of the Pentagon that women cannot be forced to perform combat duties, the issue of drafting them was deemed irrelevant. Tell that to the guys getting shot at.

I talked to some marines from Somalia. Their beef about women soldiers is that, while the guys are sent into the desert or on combat missions, the female marines guard the embassies and toady about with the diplomats and generals -- ensuring their own promotions.

It is a well-known fact that, during the build-up to the Iraq War, droves of female soldiers became suddenly ill or, more remarkably, temporarily pregnant -- many with pregnancies which seemed, miraculously, to vanish when the hostilities ended. Is military service just another career track for women? Another way to get a paycheck and a pension without having to risk too much?

And...while the engines of feminist propaganda inflamed the nation over the issue of admitting young women to military academies, the real issue -- registering ALL women for Selective Service in combat roles -- was cleanly swept under the rug.

Why do feminists, male and female, dodge this issue?

Because it is the death knell to their movement.

On every radio show I've ever done with ideological feminists -- where I was able to raise the Selective Service issue -- I was met with a prolonged pause, then a gush of unanimous and unequivocal agreement that women should be compelled to register, then the topic was swiftly changed to something else -- a peculiarly feminine technique for avoiding unpleasantness. They'll talk about it. But they won't do anything about it. Why won't feminists proactively advocate this issue?

Because they know their constituents. They know that the feminist movement would endure an 80% desertion rate led by those gender opportunists who go by the name of Equity Feminists if the ideologues began openly advocating draft registration. Far and away most women do NOT want to register for the draft. They do not want equality -- not if it means they REALLY have to fight for it.

And how about the people who don't believe in war?

Welcome to a bigger problem.

I didn't believe in the Vietnam War. I was drafted anyway. The women with whom I had pursued undergraduate studies at the University of Chicago sailed blithely off to graduate school, while I went underground dodging the F.B.I. It was no fun. And it certainly wasn't Equality.

200 years ago a flurry of democratic revolutions established that a person willing to fight and risk his life could be liberated from monarchy and gain the right to vote for his governors. 140 years later women obtained the right to vote, without being obligated to fight for, or risk anything. Is this not simply another instance of men affording special protections for women? It was men, after all -- the guys who fight and die -- who granted women the right to vote.

Have we not lost sight of what citizenship in a democracy is all about? How can our media focus on the "glass ceiling" and ignore this obvious inequity? I have no problem with women becoming senators, CEOs, or Supreme Court Justices. I DO have a problem with the idea that these women never, ever, have to fight to defend the form of government which permits them to attain these high positions.

Aristocrats are a privileged species of human being. Aristocrats are not expected to perform hard, dangerous, physical labor -- no bricklaying or asphalt pouring or oil well drilling for these folks. Aristocrats are not expected to serve as common soldiers in time of war -- for them are reserved positions of command and supply, far removed from the front lines. Are we not creating an aristocracy of women? Are we not breeding a race of privileged creatures, with guaranteed rights for advancement into positions of authority, who are not expected to perform nasty physical labor nor fight in time of war? It seems to me democracy is circling back on itself, like a snake swallowing its own tail, recreating a type of aristocrat, a privileged individual, one who wears a slightly more attractive gown, yet one who is, as in the olden days, endowed with favored status from her time of birth. Is it possible we are recreating an aristocracy of women?

All the feminist issues of the last 30 years rolled up into one pale in comparison to the image of the male draftee, getting shot at, by people he doesn't know, in a war he doesn't believe in. This is TRUE powerlessness, not TV hype.

Equality is not just about money and political power. It is also about human relationships. Whether it's a father who isn't allowed to see his children, a coal miner or bricklayer working a job he hates to feed his wife and kids, or a draftee getting shot at, the stark oppression of men in the entire arena of human relationships is perhaps the major untold academic saga of this century. We need much more serious academic inquiry into why men get stuck with the hard dangerous jobs, and why men get stuck fighting wars. Draft women. Let them get shot at -- or run from the F.B.I. That's real equality. That's civic responsibility. If women cannot accede to registering for Selective Service their very right to vote, much less their right to become senators, judges and CEOs, is called into question. Equality means equality of responsibility. Women can NEVER be equal without it.

But we -- bio-imprinted males that we are -- will continue protecting them and defending them while they rail at us for being their oppressors. Like cocks in a barnyard, no matter what injustices and outrages we female sympathizers foist on the rest of the male species, we will carry on blithely protecting and defending women and advocating their favorite issues. That's how we were made. Men compete with each other for the privilege of protecting women. And the guy who does the best job of that wins the emotional reward that women offer -- and I'm not just talking about getting laid.

But the joke's on us. Women live longer. Women control 65% of America's wealth (Forbes magazine). Women don't need our protection. Women don't have to fight in war.

Oops...please excuse me. I have to go. It's windy and raining, dark clouds lashing across the lagoon, but the guys want to go fishing and I should go too. Don't ask me why. I'll never understand. It's just something guys do -- enduring pain and discomfort to gain sustenance for the women and kids. That's not likely to change. Not in Europe, America or the South Pacific. Men take natural pleasure in protecting and providing for women. It's part of our bio-make-up.

And it doesn't run in the opposite direction. Few women are dedicated to protecting and providing for men. Few women will lay bricks or mine coal for a husband who stays home cooking pancakes. Equality between the sexes? It's about as germane an issue as financial security for sea urchins. If women want equality tell them to register for the draft. If not, tell them to stop yapping about it.

It's cold and wet out here. There are wild, wind-whipped waves and razor-backed reefs and mean-toothed fish to haul into the boat. It's not ideology. It's not something you discuss in climate controlled rooms. It's something you do.

Originally posted by MIKEN80:

I think that the goverment shall abolish NS 4 the seek of Male.Cos i think that it is an extra 4 male to go ns.Come on! Man !Singapore is so small.Any countries who want to invade us so easy man donn need fight 1.Jus ask them to split saliver and we will be over-flooded in no time.Or perhaps they jus walk or swim in openly.Singapore prison will soon be full man.
What's there to fight for.Any bomb drop from the sky there goes our famous Changi Airport.
Another Bomb drop there goes our famous Orchard Rd.There is nothing we can do.
If not singapore goverment can hired oversea talents ----other country army and paid them high salary.Singapore ns man are too cheap man one day only $8.I rather pay goverment $10 per day to exchange my freedom.
The males are disadvantage cos they got to serve ns.2-2half years.What they study has a already forgotten.They are already behind the ladies and the world.
Singapore is too small.We got to keep moving at all times in order to keep up with the time.But the ns take most of our precious time especially the "Golden Time" where we are so energetic at age 18-23.This is the time where our talent and rooms of capablity can be seen.
I really hope that the grieve can be ......
cure in no time.
I hope that somebody will see from my point of view.

if everybody thinks the way u think...singapore gona be dead sooner or later....i guess u just an gutless piece of shit!

Most interesting. Unfortunately, the weight of the existing political establishment and the social status quo make it unlikely that much change will ever occur.

During the S Cube seminar (2001), I did bring up the question of why females are not required to 'earn' their citizenship, and even among the enlightened JC crowd, there were quite a few male dissenters. To say nothing of the females.

------------------
Air!
______________________________ http://www.geocities.com/gssq/

[This message has been edited by gssq (edited 12 May 2002).]

Originally posted by slyde:

actually i feel ns is good for us... teaches us lots of impt things... but come on lah... defend singapore from foriegn countries?? no chance... even though s'pore got superior technology... its just too small... and its the land size that is singapores trouble... not the number of fighting people.. Face the facts... singapore cannot defend itself from bombs... only can fight ppl... so they must do the next best thing... ally themselves with powewrful countries such as china or india so they dont kena bombed by a certain neighbour... and 2.5-3 yrs is too bloody long... we can learn the same thing within 1-1.5 yrs... really... but this is my opinion... anyone care to rebut?

I think you must be kid still in school, if Sg is going to war...why wait for enemy to come? And if you are going to war..u think the world wouldn't know that you are moving your army? we don't need flying pigeons now, we use SATs, and don't worry about someone dropping bombs from overhead, just do your part and our friends in blue will do theirs.

As for the duration, as you say officers will need 2 years or so. And if all the guys leave in 1.5 years...who are the officers gonna be posted to? A ghost unit? Where is the time he gets to bond his guys then? Are you gonna fight a war with some damn officer you've met just a week? To let someone you barely know lead you into a warzone? I hope you change your mentality abt NS.

lemme juz say this... even if we attack first... there is no denying the possibility that the enemy would hit us where it hurts... our homes...
and i reiterate my stand that 2.5 yrs is too long...
you tell me it takes 2 yrs 4 u 2 connect wif your friens?? what kind of an antisocial freak are you??
6mths to 1 yr is enough...
pls dont post bullshit just to get back at my stand.. come up with something ralistic or else stop wasting my time and your breath

A smattering of general comments:

Conscription gives Singapore a ridiculously big number of soldiers for its army - officially we've 300,000 combat soldiers including reservists, and I think it's more.

Do we really need this many soldiers to defend such a small land area? If they made it a regular-only army, there'd still be a good number willing to serve. One reason why they don't abolish conscription is because it's already ingrained, and the inertia prevents further change.

And Singapore also does not offer an option for conscientious objectors - those who are against killing and being an army, like most other countries. Instead, these people are thrown into jail. I really think the option should be provided, so these people do not betray their consciences and principles. Of course, the term of service should be lengthened to get rid of those who just want an easy way out of NS.

On it being too long:

Definitely. Being in the army too long causes mental degenration and atrophy. The economic loss is definitely great.

Once you're in a unit for 6 months, I think you'll be more than familiar with your vocation. And being with people longer may not cause you to bond, it may further deepen existing rifts and aggravate hatreds. Besides, I think once you go to reservist, you don't work with the same people you did in full time NS (correct me I'm wrong).

Perhaps what they should do is send everyone through BMT, the relevant courses (like OCS, SISPEC, Signals, Medic et al) and let them train for a few months in a unit. More training than that'd be superfluous. And there's always reservist to refresh the memory. Hell, they should send girls to at least BMT too so they can take up a rifle.

On indefensibility:

Singapore indeed does not have strategic depth. But we can defend ourselves, especially if we strike first, as our armed forces is one of the best or the best in the region.

On pay:

I agree, $10 a day is too ridiculously low As someone observed, "You pay me peanuts, you get a monkey". If you're going to enslave us, at least give us a better pittance to comfort us! At least pay's going up from July 1st.

Retorting people's grievances with "you are a man" arguments doesn't really work, you know. Especially for those who don't care about society's arbitrary notions of what men should do or be like (Bah).

------------------
Air!
______________________________ http://www.geocities.com/gssq/

[This message has been edited by gssq (edited 26 May 2002).]

guys, dun be such f***ing 'gu-niangs'...NS is important to our country.
although it's true that S'pore is too small to be defended... a strong force is necessary to make others think twice about attacking us... as we could hit them hard also if we are being attacked

hey bapoks , why u all damn fark up complaning , just stup up n serve lar
you think de goverment of singapore , have not heard dis complains? hey Ns have been around for so many yrs , u think no one complain ar , they have gone over dis matter so many time , I Dont need to explain to u wat they said about why SG MALES need to serve ns , Why not go to POPULAR BOOKshop
n buy a primary 5,6 social studies book , n sec 1 to sec 5 history books , n read up