City harvest invitation!!
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Okay. I was participating in another forum in a discussion on Christianity with non-believers. I am in agreement with MrBach on the issue of judgment. Let me elaborate more on this with some of my points.
False Teachings
There are many warnings found in the Bible that show some people would try to promote false teachings and lead people away from the gospel of Jesus Christ.- [*]"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15)
[*]"and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people." (Matthew 24:11)
[*]"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." (Matthew 24:24)
[*]"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
[*]"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves." (2 Peter 2:1)
[*]"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
One of the most misinterpreted Bible verses is Matthew 7:1-2. It is written: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." What many fail to realize is that it is a warning against hypocritical judgment. It is not against judgment per se.
In many parts of the Bible, Christians are called to judge and to discern between right and wrong teachings, as well as to discern between true and false prophets. In Luke 7:43, Jesus said: "You have judged correctly." And in 1 Corinthians 10:15, "I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say." The original Greek word krinō, which means to judge, is used in Matthew 7:1-2, Luke 7:43 and 1 Corinthians 10:15.
In 1 John 4:1, it is written: "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." Ephesians 5:11 says, "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." In 1 Thessalonians 5:21, it is written: "Test everything. Hold on to the good."
If we Christians are to obey these Biblical teachings, then we are to judge. It would be impossible to do so without judging.
Background & Exhortation
I have been in a pro-charismatic church for many years and I believe I have an idea of what the City Harvesters are going through. The rule of worship should not be determined by how you think or what Kong Hee says. The rule of worship is found in the Bible. The Bible should be your only guide in respect to your behavior as a Christian. If you do not follow what the Bible prescribed, you will be guilty of mocking God in your worship. Therefore, please tread carefully.
Please keep this saying in mind, "Soli Deo Gloria," which means all glory to God alone. Worship should be God-centered, not Man-centered. It is not City Harvest Church that converts the unbelievers. It is God who works through the preaching of the Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ. Preach the gospel, not preach City Harvest.
To the City Harvesters, it is very important that you study the Bible carefully and test the teachings of Kong Hee against what the Bible says. Follow what the Bereans did in Acts 17:11. Read the Bible in context, making sure that those teachings by Kong Hee are not contradicted by other parts of the Bible. I have read for myself Kong Hee's teachings and have discovered many theological contextual mistakes that should not have been committed by a pastor at Kong Hee's level. Therefore, I hope you will seriously study the Word of God and see what the rest of us Bible-believing Christians see. -
very nicely said theoronin!
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I cannot condemn or even how Sun should wear or should'nt wear revealing clothes. If you want to know the answer, please ask Sun.
I know by bewaring of false prophets. Does that mean the CHC is wrong.
I challenge those who condemn CHC. If you really think that CHC really did something wrong and not fulfilling the word of God. Tell me so I can consult one of my friend who is a lawyer to fight for the case F.O.C but the catch is that you have to show evidence and win the case. If not, you have to pay me double of the lawyer's fee .
Have your this person called Rv Ulf Ekman. If you did, you should have known that he had birthed 1000 new churches for the last 20 years. He is the senior paster of Kong Hee. Does it means that he is also bilnd to see also?
You see the case of charismastic christian. how about traditional church. During the event of FOP, for you info and those who dunno, after praise and worship, hundred and hundred of peoples left the stadium to buy hotdog to eat. Do you think it is good and not only that. i also know that during the service only 156 peoples respond to the altar call. You see what do I really mean whereby you don't move around when you are hearing the sermon. I dunno how many of them are from CHC who left to get their food. But I have the faith them more than 70% will be from other churches.
Many of you think that some CHC people are being brainwash to give for the building. But do you really know how many people really sacrifise their money for the building fund. I don't talk about the normalCHC members.E.g Pastor and staff degraded their flat, sold their cars, sell her accessories and etc... We do not build that building for us to enjoy. That is not the main objective. But when we built, we built a house of a living God and these building dos not belong to us but for the kingdom of God.
Read the bible, What did King David said to say when the people are condemning him? Did he condemn back?
A lot of thing that some of them condemn are based on their thinking. Have you really based on that truth that what CHC had done. You don't even have the faith to tell the things CHC did was wrong and you even have proof for that? What more can you say about the things the do? These are something that you don't liked but it does'nt mean the way they did was wrong. -
if building nice churches were the way to salvation i guess many would be in heaven by now.Originally posted by dO|pH|n3 a.k.a JaMiE:I cannot condemn or even how Sun should wear or should'nt wear revealing clothes. If you want to know the answer, please ask Sun.
I know by bewaring of false prophets. Does that mean the CHC is wrong.
I challenge those who condemn CHC. If you really think that CHC really did something wrong and not fulfilling the word of God. Tell me so I can consult one of my friend who is a lawyer to fight for the case F.O.C but the catch is that you have to show evidence and win the case. If not, you have to pay me double of the lawyer's fee .
Have your this person called Rv Ulf Ekman. If you did, you should have known that he had birthed 1000 new churches for the last 20 years. He is the senior paster of Kong Hee. Does it means that he is also bilnd to see also?
You see the case of charismastic christian. how about traditional church. During the event of FOP, for you info and those who dunno, after praise and worship, hundred and hundred of peoples left the stadium to buy hotdog to eat. Do you think it is good and not only that. i also know that during the service only 156 peoples respond to the altar call. You see what do I really mean whereby you don't move around when you are hearing the sermon. I dunno how many of them are from CHC who left to get their food. But I have the faith them more than 70% will be from other churches.
Many of you think that some CHC people are being brainwash to give for the building. But do you really know how many people really sacrifise their money for the building fund. I don't talk about the normalCHC members.E.g Pastor and staff degraded their flat, sold their cars, sell her accessories and etc... We do not build that building for us to enjoy. That is not the main objective. But when we built, we built a house of a living God and these building dos not belong to us but for the kingdom of God.
Read the bible, What did King David said to say when the people are condemning him? Did he condemn back?
A lot of thing that some of them condemn are based on their thinking. Have you really based on that truth that what CHC had done. You don't even have the faith to tell the things CHC did was wrong and you even have proof for that? What more can you say about the things the do? These are something that you don't liked but it does'nt mean the way they did was wrong.
we gave you 17 pages of proof of our claims and you still fail to comprehend..you're really one of the dumbest people i've ever seen. -
I would have thought you will be saying god will punish those who slander the innocents, but blardy hell, you want to use the legal arm to challenge those who dispute CHC actions purely on spiritual basis. So far, you have done nuthing to answer people questions or to challenge fellow christians on theological basis. Want to use lawyers? They are only a tool to win cases and make others suffer, not to correct or right an issue.Originally posted by dO|pH|n3 a.k.a JaMiE:I cannot condemn or even how Sun should wear or should'nt wear revealing clothes. If you want to know the answer, please ask Sun.
I know by bewaring of false prophets. Does that mean the CHC is wrong.
I challenge those who condemn CHC. If you really think that CHC really did something wrong and not fulfilling the word of God. Tell me so I can consult one of my friend who is a lawyer to fight for the case F.O.C but the catch is that you have to show evidence and win the case. If not, you have to pay me double of the lawyer's fee .
Have your this person called Rv Ulf Ekman. If you did, you should have known that he had birthed 1000 new churches for the last 20 years. He is the senior paster of Kong Hee. Does it means that he is also bilnd to see also?
You see the case of charismastic christian. how about traditional church. During the event of FOP, for you info and those who dunno, after praise and worship, hundred and hundred of peoples left the stadium to buy hotdog to eat. Do you think it is good and not only that. i also know that during the service only 156 peoples respond to the altar call. You see what do I really mean whereby you don't move around when you are hearing the sermon. I dunno how many of them are from CHC who left to get their food. But I have the faith them more than 70% will be from other churches.
Many of you think that some CHC people are being brainwash to give for the building. But do you really know how many people really sacrifise their money for the building fund. I don't talk about the normalCHC members.E.g Pastor and staff degraded their flat, sold their cars, sell her accessories and etc... We do not build that building for us to enjoy. That is not the main objective. But when we built, we built a house of a living God and these building dos not belong to us but for the kingdom of God.
Read the bible, What did King David said to say when the people are condemning him? Did he condemn back?
A lot of thing that some of them condemn are based on their thinking. Have you really based on that truth that what CHC had done. You don't even have the faith to tell the things CHC did was wrong and you even have proof for that? What more can you say about the things the do? These are something that you don't liked but it does'nt mean the way they did was wrong.
Sheesh, even more telling characteristic of a cult. Do you know that many cults in history involved members sacrificing themselves to build some worthless buildings or contribute to the leader's pocket money? -
Yue miao yue hei
WIth each response from the CHC peeps, it make CHC looks more like a cult than a church.....sigh... -
Feels like playin a broken record....
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i agree.. and that jamie does not need to ask her friend.. my cousin is a lawyer and even he himselfs admits that when fighting cases most of the time, facts have to be distorted, and plausible assumptions have to be made to turn the tables.Originally posted by laurence82:I would have thought you will be saying god will punish those who slander the innocents, but blardy hell, you want to use the legal arm to challenge those who dispute CHC actions purely on spiritual basis. So far, you have done nuthing to answer people questions or to challenge fellow christians on theological basis. Want to use lawyers? They are only a tool to win cases and make others suffer, not to correct or right an issue.
Sheesh, even more telling characteristic of a cult. Do you know that many cults in history involved members sacrificing themselves to build some worthless buildings or contribute to the leader's pocket money? -
screwed this post
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Go there sian char bo can boh?
Sianz..so far i live in the east somemore ..can request chc build one at the east since they so rich. 
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Hey Jamie.... big mistake.....Originally posted by dO|pH|n3 a.k.a JaMiE:Up to your to think loh. I got nothing to say abolut your thinking. If you think you are a true christian, you should'nt be posting here.
Really waste my breathe. If you don't believe, then forget it.
If you are a christian, and furthermore you condemn CHC. You think you really is a christian. You are just a talk big no action people. Did God say you can condemn people. Did God say it is right to condemn people/church?
You just don't like to dance,does'nt mean it is wrong to dance before HIM
You are serving a living God and not a dead God.
The action you do say a lot.
1 Cor 5:9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people- 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you.
Paul writes to the Christians in Corinth telling them only to judge those who call themselves Christians. So it is totally wrong to say that we cannot pronounce a condemnation on churches who practice wrong teachings. To non Christians, CHC is a money spinning enterprise that feeds on the gulllibility of impressionable people. To many Christians, CHC is a church that that misuse scripture to propagate their own brand of gospel.
It is very clear in Paul's writing that Christians can and should pronounce their judgement in such an organisation that feeds on falsehood. -
Aiyah...
CHC's name is chow already. If Sun Ho doesn't gei kiang and come out and sing and act, maybe things won't be so bad for CHC. -
i wonder if my cousin is still in chc...
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Hmm, i am not City Harvest myself but i feel that i should say something from my point of view. First of all, City Harvest is a mission church not a community church and that explains why they keep asking people to join in their service.
But i can see the the members of City Harvest are so much more passionate than others. Example; during their Arise and Build Campaign so many members contributed their part so willingly. It is like saying, Lord this is all that i have but i decided to give it to you as a investment, hoping that more and more lost will be added into the Kingdom of God.
If you saying something about their behaviour, i would say that many of friend's behaviour got so much better. One of them used to be some sort of gang leader but he is now spreading the word of truth to so many people. And also, during the Festival of Praise, many Christians from other church are criticising about City Harvest, scolding bad words, cutting q and so much more. I mean, is this how Christians should behave? Are we serving a different God?
i don't get it when people saying abt Rev. Kong's preaching because to me, he is probably the best preacher in Singapore. During festival of praise, i can only see the he is the only pastor taking down notes and concentrating during preaching.. And the annointing he received that is being revealed from Rev. Ulf Eman (Word of Life church) and Rev. Pil Pingles (Christian City Church) iis that all fake? I don't know, you judge yourself.
And what is wrong with Sun singing, i think it is much better than some churches believing that what, wearing jeans is worldly, dyeing hair is worldly, saying tongues is devlish and worst, Grace is enough to cover sin so it is okay to sin after you got saved... -_-"
Last of all, i joined this forum because i want to learn more about Christianity and hoping that we can exchange views on this vast subject. Please forgive me if i did offend some of you. -
[quote]Originally posted by Josiah_86:
[b]Hmm, i am not City Harvest myself but i feel that i should say something from my point of view. First of all, City Harvest is a mission church not a community church and that explains why they keep asking people to join in their service.
C'mon, be TRUTHFUL.
But i can see the the members of City Harvest are so much more passionate than others. Example; during their Arise and Build Campaign so many members contributed their part so willingly. It is like saying, Lord this is all that i have but i decided to give it to you as a investment, hoping that more and more lost will be added into the Kingdom of God.
More passionate than who? This is extremely offensive and judgemental.
If you saying something about their behaviour, i would say that many of friend's behaviour got so much better. One of them used to be some sort of gang leader but he is now spreading the word of truth to so many people. And also, during the Festival of Praise, many Christians from other church are criticising about City Harvest, scolding bad words, cutting q and so much more. I mean, is this how Christians should behave? Are we serving a different God?
But aren't you criticising and judging other Christians too?
i don't get it when people saying abt Rev. Kong's preaching because to me, he is probably the best preacher in Singapore. During festival of praise, i can only see the he is the only pastor taking down notes and concentrating during preaching.. And the annointing he received that is being revealed from Rev. Ulf Eman (Word of Life church) and Rev. Pil Pingles (Christian City Church) iis that all fake? I don't know, you judge yourself.
Best preacher?????? Now that is totally downright absolutely offensive, not just to other Church members but also other pastors and preachers.
And what is wrong with Sun singing, i think it is much better than some churches believing that what, wearing jeans is worldly, dyeing hair is worldly, saying tongues is devlish and worst, Grace is enough to cover sin so it is okay to sin after you got saved... -_-"
See what I mean? You are totally judgemental, bordering on hypocrisy. There's nothing wrong with Sun singing. But there is something amiss if:
(1) She didn't attempt to correct the Press when it called her a "pastor" although she, you and every City Harvest member know she isn't.
(2) She abets the culture of idol worship by partaking in the world of glam and pop stardom.
Last of all, i joined this forum because i want to learn more about Christianity and hoping that we can exchange views on this vast subject. Please forgive me if i did offend some of you.
Disclaimer? Please, if you are here to defend City Harvest, stand up and don't find excuses. -
what's talking, doc?
can i hijack this thread?
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so much bashing-________________________-|||
i believed different churches have diff purposes luhs.relaz peeps.why u peeps wanna flame one another?dun think its good...chc and other churches are the same...only thing is dat chc's way of evangelism is different.and the hip and dances...dun think its bad.ask urself...would u wans to worship god in slow melody?or would u wanna sing in joys?its not so bad afterall...wads more?we shouldnt have da old concept dat christian songs meant old musics in slow melody...wouldn't we luves modern songs too?ask urself....
and i think this thread is just an invitation...
u wanna go...u go...dun wanna go...just ignore.no harm.
my point is..:why listens to ur frens' critisism and other's contradictions?shouldnt u be da one experiencing it urself?if u've attend before...dats good...if u feels its evil...ive nth to says...but if u're saying its evil when others said so...dats so..dissappointing... -
CHC try to do good...it does not teach evil and try to promote christianity thro song and dance.Whats the anger abt? unless u r tokin abt CHC tellin its member to go bomb the shitzzz out of the Americans?If not and since the church hurt no one then why so many ppls blasting throu the roof?btw i also dun like chc coz im uncomfortable wif their style of worship but that doesnt mean its deserved my scolding....
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agree!!!Originally posted by nopulseisgood:CHC try to do good...it does not teach evil and try to promote christianity thro song and dance.Whats the anger abt? unless u r tokin abt CHC tellin its member to go bomb the shitzzz out of the Americans?If not and since the church hurt no one then why so many ppls blasting throu the roof?btw i also dun like chc coz im uncomfortable wif their style of worship but that doesnt mean its deserved my scolding.... 
even if u dun like...y wanna scolds and flames... -
i've been invited by my friend to go to CHC. my classmates were all psycho-ed by him to go to CHC. we're all devout Muslims and Buddhists. why invite to go to a church when already people have their religions? now, we dont mind him and i think he got the idea. so, let's leave the CHC people alone. we're happy with our own. let them be happy with theirs.
i just hope no mosque will have a concert by Siti Nurhaliza or the equivalent. -
my 2 cents worth
how people of a church woship is their business
but they shouldnt try to psycho others to join and subsequently convert -
Yeah.... go there let them brainwash and give money "WILLINGLY", sure they dont force mah.... force = $10 or $100 for few times.. But willingly is 30 yrs or 50 yrs mean over 10 thousands or hundred thousands...
let go CHC and snatch their chio bu and convert them over.... muhahahaha....
hey.... let organise one..... alright -
A fool and his money are soon parted.
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can we just walk into City Harvest tml and "attend" church?? uninvited that is, and unescorted
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maybe we atheists shld have a mass conversion.