City harvest invitation!!
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I really like your statement about God being rejected over the letter and not those who post it. Nice.Originally posted by snk86:Kid, put it this way, you care for someone, you expect NOTHING in return, i am sure you know that, people throw away your mail without reading, you should still graciously take this fact as it is God that is rejected, not you, making a fuss out of it is just plain un-Christ like.
you say people invite you just go lah, lol, not like you don't know how aggressive your church is, i was there once, some christmas thingy, then need to leave early as my church's own service there need me do something, one of your usher just come over and tell me "our pastor don't like people leaving half way". Tell me, is this the way to treat a newcomer? My Dad is the IC of our church's FTA(first time attender) ministry, and we all know the basic fact that you give the newcomer the best impression, we are not self centred people, we are God centred people. what is it with comments like "our pastor don't like it'??
and lastly, are you sure what you said is pleasing to God's eye? seriously, i do not wish to start an argument with you, i just hope you can think about what you are saying, really.
To the other non-CHCers: pai seh guys, got to talk THEIR language lah, or else cannot get thru to them one :p
Evangelism to them has become a quota target reaching duty.
I personally feel that leaving halfway in the midst of service is not right, but you do have the right reason to do so.
The fault here is from the usher. 'Our pastor don't like....'
He didn't present his pastor and the reverance of the service in the right light.
In this area, i feel that it's the usher's inexperience way to deal with people. Again i would say, the leadership have the right intent. But somehow the message was passed down with unclear intent already.
Cheers -
woah rejecting invitations also wrong ar?
How about accepting to go to a charity dinner or something of that sort invited by your non-christian friends? Seriously, I doubt you would give a hoot too...unless you have NO non-christian friends in the first place
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1) "I mean the way that you do it totally wrong. Someone or rather your friends spend his/her time to buy the stamp and wrote something for you and you just throw it away,just by doing that. How would you feel when someone did that do you?"
Response:
If it's a question of accepting what is merely a stamp that my friends have bought for me and intend to be giving to me as a gift, then I would agree that it is true that I would be doing them a disservicing (all other things being equal) if I were to throw back into their faces the stamp that they have bought for me.
However, rejecting openly the invitation to attend the sevices of a church that someone may issue to me (regardless of whether or not he is a friend of mine), on the grounds that the said church professes beliefs and endorses practices that are in my opinion dangerous, would not be tantamount to doing this particular person a disservice.
In asking me or in otherwise inviting me to attend the services of his church (regardless of the trouble he may have been put through, in order for him to have been able to do this), this person ought to realise that the right is entirely reserved to me to refuse this invitation; and that because I may refuse it on the grounds that I disagree profoundly with some of the practices and beliefs of his church, it would follow therefore that I would be not only entitled to refuse his invitation to attend his church but even indeed to do so in a way that would have left him in no doubt as to where I stood concerning my esteem of his church.
To accept a gift like a rubber ball (where the giver of the rubber ball was well-intentioned in giving it and where one knew of his good intentions in this regard) would be an action that in itself would be moral; but to accept an invitation to attend a church would, however, not be necesarrily moral even if one should have been made aware of the fact that the person issuing such an invitation had no ulterior motives for having issued it.
In fact, the people issuing an invitation to others to attend their church have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to take it personally when this invitation of theirs is turned down openly; for in inviting another person to their church, they ought to realise that this person may have conscientious and sincerely felt objections to whatever it is that their church may stand for.
2) "If this will be done onto you. How would you feel as a Christian?"
Response:
If you believe that it would be good for them to attend your church, then their refusal of your invitation ought to fill you with sadness at the prospect of what it may entail for them; on the contrary rather, their refusal of your invitation appears to have induced you to begin feeling sorry for yourself, as if you should have felt yourself personally slighted by their refusal in this regard.
This very response of yours (that is, the fact that you should be taking it so personally) demonstrates to my mind what a narcissistic and self-absorbed and deluded individual you are.
3) "You are being self-centered. The reason why they ask you to go is because they are concern about your life. If you think life is about me,myself. Then you are really self-fish. I tell you if your friend don't care about you, they won't ask you go even if you die, they don't even care."
Response:
If you don't yourself think that 'life is about you and yourself', then why feel yourself so slighted by their refusal to accept your invitation to them to attend your church?
It is ridiculous to assume that it is because you care for them, that you have asked them to attend the services of your church.
How do you know that you care for them?
I can assure them that Christ cares for them because I believe that He gave His Sacred Blood on the Cross for them (and for me), but I would think twice myself about making grandiose claims about the affection that I supposedly bear them.
Do you think (as you appear above to have ignorantly implied) that a person's care for someone else is necesarily made manifest in and by an invitation that he issues to this particular person to attend his church?
I don't deny that if A loves B then it is plausible that A, by way of loving B, would invite B to his church; but I do deny nonetheless that one of the ways in which it would be afforded us enough of a warrant as to be certain that A loves B, is by our seeing A invite B to his church.
If you can't grasp this basic point, then you are truly pathetic.
4) "People invite you just go lah, as if it will kill you and asking you to go and NOT asking you to accept their religion. Nobody force you too even for your friend. You think you are so great? Who you think you are, ask you so many times, many of the times are rejected. Ask yourself this question, what for they spend they money and time on you. What benefit do they have? How would you feel when people reject you."
Reponse:
Who asked them to 'spend their time and money' on the people they have decided that they should be inviting to their church?
I'm not sure what 'benefits' they may or may not hope to derive from their evangelistic efforts, but I do know that for a fact that once, someone has been made a part of your church by way of his becoming a member of it, then he is going to be expected to contribute regularly a portion of his monthly income to your church's coffers.
I don't deny that the people involved in these evangelistic efforts may themselves not profit monetarily from the success of these efforts; but that does not mean that in some other way they may not have already reckoned that by the success of these efforts they should be able to derive a benefit, especially since it is clear that they are greatly inclined take the failure of these efforts in a highly personal fashion.
In rejecting their inivitation to attend their church, why must they deem this to be a rejection of themselves?
In any case, since it is a question of an invitation to attend a church, then why should you think that it would be impossible for me to feel conscionably that it would indeed (in a sense) serve to 'kill me to attend your church'?
What if I feel that Christ compels me to refuse to attend your church?
And what if I feel that it would be a sin for me to attend your church and to expose myself to teachings and practices that I regard as false and abominable?
You are so pathetically deluded that I feel that it would be pointless for me to carry on this conversation. -
Go away...
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My friend tat keep forcing me to go to CHC so call herself the minister of god/christian, something like tat. Think she wanna increase her popularity in the church by bringing in more new comer n new face. Hence i reject all her invitation... I'm not playing this type of senseless game with her.
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that time my neighbour ask me to go to the indoor stadium for the service. wah lau still make tv show. might as well donate to those ppl in need.
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Dont you know , we also cared about all of you when we invite you to MLM ? Its all about your future!
You can have a wonderful life and able to have health and wealth. Also, your time is your own. When you reject me , its your loss, not mine. -
dun u think Mr Bach presented his points very well?Originally posted by Kimosabe:Go away... -
Its also your loss. Less one downline, less income. One rule in marketing - be inclusive, not exclusive.Originally posted by OH-FF: Dont you know , we also cared about all of you when we invite you to MLM ? Its all about your future!
You can have a wonderful life and able to have health and wealth. Also, your time is your own. When you reject me , its your loss, not mine. -
I remember once I was being pestered by a online friend to go CHC. We had a mutual friend, but had never seen each other before kind? And she keep telling me how God will forgive me and all my sins even though I told her I am EVIL?Originally posted by hxm:i had a neighbour who PESTERED me for dunno how many weeks to go to the SO-CALLED CARNIVAL. in the end had to sit thru some SERVICE. n she told me she didn't KNOW about it. wtf??!?!?!?!?!? sorry no offense.
Her then bf converted because of her. But later, she broke the relationship because she felt that God has to be her first priority. This poor guy felt so cheated that he disappear, from her life and CHC.
Tsk.
Cheers -
So who more evil, u or me?Originally posted by Yunhaier:I remember once I was being pestered by a online friend to go CHC. We had a mutual friend, but had never seen each other before kind? And she keep telling me how God will forgive me and all my sins even though I told her I am EVIL?
Her then bf converted because of her. But later, she broke the relationship because she felt that God has to be her first priority. This poor guy felt so cheated that he disappear, from her life and CHC.
Tsk.
Cheers -
anyone heard of the mission statement of CHC?
hmm... i smell something cooking
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my friend was telling me they were "strongly encouraged" to "share" their salary with god so that he/she will love her more. if she misses her monthly "sharing", her cell grp leader will "kindly remind" her that she has forgotten and will somehow make sure she remembers.Originally posted by chunyong:CHC is all abt $.....there is a 'tax' to pay for joining as a member if i am not wrong....and the 'tax' is even worse than wat the gahmen tax people....freaking hell
is that true? that they actually make you pay those "monthly subscription"?
btw, i'm a free thinking and got nothing against christianity
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woah, the girl so extreme...
Originally posted by Yunhaier:I remember once I was being pestered by a online friend to go CHC. We had a mutual friend, but had never seen each other before kind? And she keep telling me how God will forgive me and all my sins even though I told her I am EVIL?
Her then bf converted because of her. But later, she broke the relationship because she felt that God has to be her first priority. This poor guy felt so cheated that he disappear, from her life and CHC.
Tsk.
Cheers -
so where did Pastor Kong wealth come from?Originally posted by tablelamp:my friend was telling me they were "strongly encouraged" to "share" their salary with god so that he/she will love her more. if she misses her monthly "sharing", her cell grp leader will "kindly remind" her that she has forgotten and will somehow make sure she remembers.
is that true? that they actually make you pay those "monthly subscription"?
btw, i'm a free thinking and got nothing against christianity -
i suppose they'll burn in hell. it reads "eternal punishment for the unbelievers" i.e. you must only believe in their god.Originally posted by hxm:15. We believe in the eternal life for believers (John 5:24 ; 3:16 ), and eternal punishment for the unbelievers.
(Mark 9:43-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; Revelation 20:10-15)
Personal Opinion: That settles it, non-believers go to hell - period. Not happy, you can flame, but the statement stands. For one, I didn't even write it.
what happens to the muslims and other religions? -
sigh, ok, that is call thithing, it is a a thing between God and you, supposingly 10percent of your income, some give more, some give less, it is TOTALLY VOLUNTEERY(ok, fine, i cannot spell), serious, only some church in jurong with a big complex make it mandatory and ENFORCE itOriginally posted by tablelamp:my friend was telling me they were "strongly encouraged" to "share" their salary with god so that he/she will love her more. if she misses her monthly "sharing", her cell grp leader will "kindly remind" her that she has forgotten and will somehow make sure she remembers.
is that true? that they actually make you pay those "monthly subscription"?
btw, i'm a free thinking and got nothing against christianity -
his wife's earning? which i would assume to be quite a sum.Originally posted by laurence82:so where did Pastor Kong wealth come from? -
dipping his hand into the church fund would be probable too...Originally posted by snk86:his wife's earning? which i would assume to be quite a sum. -
thats the sad part, i witness someone from CHC(this happen when i was in poly, i don;t know that guy), asking his fren to go for some event, when that guy agreed, this CHC person went over to another friend of his and goes "Ha, i got one more then you liao"Originally posted by M©+square:Evangelism to them has become a quota target reaching duty.
Cheers
what is going on man...........since when is evangelism a rat race? -
well, i don't know anything about that church, only thing i know is treasurers of a church by de facto are not allowed to be of the pastorial team. not the plural form used for treasurer. my church personally have a team of 4 head treasurers doing the fund control, and my parents usually get their pay lates on bad monthsOriginally posted by laurence82:dipping his hand into the church fund would be probable too... -
ad we do hope they have some sort of integrity and honesty....Originally posted by snk86:well, i don't know anything about that church, only thing i know is treasurers of a church by de facto are not allowed to be of the pastorial team. not the plural form used for treasurer. my church personally have a team of 4 head treasurers doing the fund control, and my parents usually get their pay lates on bad months -
lol, usually they are lah, thou there is one case in singapore whent he head treasurer siphoned around 4mil plus i think to feed his gambling needs, sigh, failure man that oneOriginally posted by laurence82:ad we do hope they have some sort of integrity and honesty.... -
I admit that day I was a bit agressive because some of the people really made my head boil..
Firstly, I DID NOT say you cannot rejected their invitaion. Hwat I was saying was to those who said they just THROW the postcard away when his/friend gave to them. What does it show.
Of course, we don't force people to go if they really don't want to. City Harvest Church is a charismatic church. The way MANY of them do is about the same but don't take it as a force or a pressuring things to go. WE DO NOT FORCE PEOPLE TO GO. I agree, some may be a bit pestering.
REMEMBER we do not want your sympathy kind of money. If you want to give this kind of money, then they will not accept even if you give $10 or $1000. We want people who will give willingly. The money they gave is not for them but for GOD. We use a these funds to build church,school,hospital in other countries such as Banda Ache & Malaysia.
You may be know the goodness in it. When you know it, ou may think it ortherwise. I am not trying to change your mindset but to explain why and how the things we do.
We are imperfect people including people. So don't think that CHC people should be a perfect people and set an example for others. We are all human, we do sin also.
Whoever seen a CHC member take a gun or knife to force people to go. Never right. You want or don't want to go is up to you. It's your decision. One of CHC goal, to take the nation by storm and to be a whole new generation for them.
You may not agree but you cannot stop they way they do. They do is not because they want to be yaya-papaya or what, they just want to do good thing for GOD. How many peoples here think that CHC will not be able to build a builing in 1998(Economic Slump). Maybe you thought of that right, but we proved it wrong, not by the work of man but by the words of GOd. -
Heh...building the church compound in 1998 is an astute judgement on their part, not thru the intervention of God or something lehz...that time property prices crashed, of course good time to build lahz cos it's cheaper to build in the first place...Originally posted by dO|pH|n3 a.k.a JaMiE:I admit that day I was a bit agressive because some of the people really made my head boil..
Firstly, I DID NOT say you cannot rejected their invitaion. Hwat I was saying was to those who said they just THROW the postcard away when his/friend gave to them. What does it show.
Of course, we don't force people to go if they really don't want to. City Harvest Church is a charismatic church. The way MANY of them do is about the same but don't take it as a force or a pressuring things to go. WE DO NOT FORCE PEOPLE TO GO. I agree, some may be a bit pestering.
REMEMBER we do not want your sympathy kind of money. If you want to give this kind of money, then they will not accept even if you give $10 or $1000. We want people who will give willingly. The money they gave is not for them but for GOD. We use a these funds to build church,school,hospital in other countries such as Banda Ache & Malaysia.
You may be know the goodness in it. When you know it, ou may think it ortherwise. I am not trying to change your mindset but to explain why and how the things we do.
We are imperfect people including people. So don't think that CHC people should be a perfect people and set an example for others. We are all human, we do sin also.
Whoever seen a CHC member take a gun or knife to force people to go. Never right. You want or don't want to go is up to you. It's your decision. One of CHC goal, to take the nation by storm and to be a whole new generation for them.
You may not agree but you cannot stop they way they do. They do is not because they want to be yaya-papaya or what, they just want to do good thing for GOD. How many peoples here think that CHC will not be able to build a builing in 1998(Economic Slump). Maybe you thought of that right, but we proved it wrong, not by the work of man but by the words of GOd.